HS2: North-west of England

Debate between Jason McCartney and Jonathan Reynolds

Tuesday 11th October 2016 Westminster Hall

[Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)]

I have always been a supporter of greater investment in our railway network and, as someone who was on the HS2 Bill Committee, examining the Bill line-by-line, I remain convinced that bringing high-speed rail to the UK is essential. Therefore, it is a pleasure to be in this debate under your chairmanship today, Mr Owen.

We have got to secure greater capacity on our railway network—it really is as simple as that. Demand on our railways has exploded over recent years. Total passenger journeys have more than doubled—from 735 million in 1995 to 1.5 billion journeys in 2013. By 2026, peak demand is projected to hit 250% of capacity at Euston, 200% of capacity at Birmingham New Street and 175% of capacity at Manchester Piccadilly. The west coast main line will be full by 2024. During morning peak-time services, around 3,000 passengers arrive standing into London Euston or Birmingham each day, unable to get a seat despite paying the full fare. These are journeys not of 10 or 20 minutes but of up to two hours or more from Manchester. My wife once had to sit on the floor outside the toilet from London to Manchester when she was eight months pregnant, with a small toddler in tow—

[Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con)]

With Jeremy?

[Jonathan Reynolds]

I believe many people have experienced similar problems on the network. This is not what should be offered by a 21st century rail service in the fifth richest country in the world.

The increase in capacity offered by HS2 is warmly welcomed. I recognise that we should be open to conversations about how we might change the design, and different parts of the country will need to put their case for how they see or want to see the benefits manifest themselves in their areas. I myself wanted HS2 to begin construction in the north, from Manchester heading down. Many colleagues have made that case. A compelling case was made by my hon. Friend the Member for City of Chester (Christian Matheson) on how it could be altered to improve the service for his area. It is important to say that the phase 1 plans in the hybrid Bill will be quite transformative, because separating out long-distance passenger traffic from freight and local services will allow more services across the board. When we talk about HS2, that should always be borne in mind—the benefits are not just from the new capacity of the HS2 line, but also from the additional benefits that come from freeing up the existing capacity and infrastructure.

I find the two most common complaints I hear about HS2 to be without foundation. The first is that HS2 will simply be a rich man’s railway. That is incoherent. The laws of supply and demand tell us that, if we do not build more capacity, prices will have to rise as an ever greater number of people chase a limited number of seats on the trains. I see HS2 being built as a way to keep fares down.

The second criticism that we often hear is that the new line should be built not with high-speed technology but with standard technology. Again, that does not add up. A new rail line built to traditional speeds would still incur about 90% of the costs of HS2 but offer only a fraction of the capacity that HS2 would provide. I believe this is the right project.

If we really want to make real the Government’s former rhetoric—I do not know whether it is still the policy—about the northern powerhouse and devolution, infrastructure and investment outside of London has got to come with it. We cannot attract the global companies and the long-term investment into the north-west and Yorkshire that we all want to see unless we can give people some certainty that we will address the chronic underinvestment in infrastructure in the regions outside London. I see HS2 as integral to that. It is about jobs, growth and connectivity, about better wages, better career paths and better homes. It is about bringing London and Manchester closer together and giving hard-pressed Londoners a chance to spend more time in the UK’s greatest city. The HS2 stations at Manchester airport and Manchester city centre are about making Greater Manchester a nexus for domestic, European and global travel, and I like the look of that a great deal.

[Jason McCartney]

I rise as a Yorkshire Member. This is relevant. I thank the hon. Gentleman for talking about capacity. It is not about speed. Does he agree that, at a time when the Government are making big infrastructure decisions on Hinkley, Crossrail and airport expansion, it is really important that we win the hearts and minds in the north of England, by showing that this will not only benefit Leeds and Manchester? It will also benefit our towns—Chester, Stalybridge, Huddersfield, Halifax and Burnley—and it will create quality jobs and apprenticeships in the north of our nation.

[Jonathan Reynolds]

I endorse that wholeheartedly, and not just because we share a train line between our constituencies, allowing easy access between the two. This is about how the economy works outside of London and where the investment goes. It is about job opportunities, career paths and the lives that can radiate from that kind of investment.

We have never got this right as a country before. We never thought as we needed to about what to do when we saw the de-industrialisation of the ’80s and the changes in the way that people live and work in the areas those of us here represent. It needs this kind of ambition. People talk about the costs of these projects, but they always will be expensive in a country with our land values and distribution of population. It will be difficult, in cost terms, to deliver, but it is the right thing to do.

Northern Rail Hub

Debate between Jason McCartney and Jonathan Reynolds

Wednesday 18th January 2012 Westminster Hall

[Jason McCartney]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. In our part of West Yorkshire, Grand Central has increased its range of services and is stopping in Mirfield just outside Huddersfield. Direct rail services, particularly to London and the south, are an important part of breaking down the north-south divide, and I certainly welcome those developments.

I thank the Minister for being here today. I should like to note a few things that I welcome in her speech to the Northern Rail conference in Leeds in October last year. In that speech, she recognised the role that the railway has to play in bringing prosperity to the north, with which all of us in this Chamber would agree. I also welcome her acknowledgement that the Chancellor has prioritised investment in rail by announcing in the spending review £18 billion of funding for rail. I agree with her comments that rail can deliver not only growth, but a more balanced sustainable economic growth and that it can help to tackle the prosperity gap between the north and south. Crucially, the Minister stated that the Government recognised the benefits that the remainder of the northern hub programme could offer and confirmed that they would be looking “very seriously” at the whole proposal in the run up to this July’s high-level output specification 2 statement. Again, I welcome that.

I should like to put the Minister on the spot, however, and ask her three specific questions. First, will she commit to ensuring that the northern hub project is fully funded, so that the north can enjoy the economic benefits that that would deliver: 20,000 to 30,000 new jobs and £4.2 billion of wider economic benefits? Secondly, given that the Government have rightly funded HS2, which enjoys a benefit-cost ratio of 1.6:1 and that the northern hub enjoys a business case of more than 4:1, does she agree that it makes economic sense to fund the hub fully?

[Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing the debate. I very much enjoyed his use of the phrase “pan-northern,” of which we should have more in Parliament. I support entirely his position on funding the hub holistically as one scheme to get the maximum benefit from it, but what information does he have about the cost ratio changing if we only fund it piecemeal? Surely, if we fund the hub individually in sections, it would result in the costs increasing and the benefit ratio reducing.

[Jason McCartney]

The hon. Gentleman represents Stalybridge, which is just over the Pennines. Obviously, I have been through his constituency when travelling on train services through the tunnels to the other side. He makes a very good point. Certainly, the benefit-cost ratio diminishes rapidly if the project is not fully funded. I hope that we are getting that point across.

I have asked the Minister two specific questions. My third question is: does she agree that, following the HS2 announcement, the northern hub is even more important to the delivery of wider economic benefits and to ensuring that an integrated transport infrastructure can spread across the north of England? Those are the three specific requests that I should like responses to.

As I start to wind up to allow colleagues to have their say, I must mention HS2. One of the repeated claims made against the HS2 announcement last week is that it will come at the expense of more localised services and that we should spend the cash on improving existing services. Well, the northern hub project clearly shows that both can go hand in hand: huge investment in the existing network and the added capacity and speed of HS2. In summary, the northern hub comes in at £560 million. There are £4 billion-worth of benefits and potentially 20,000 to 30,000 new jobs that would drive the northern economy forward, all for the same cost as the refurbishment of King’s Cross station.