Tomlinson Report

Debate between Jason McCartney and Guto Bebb

Tuesday 17th December 2013 Westminster Hall

[Guto Bebb]

Absolutely. When a business is taken into the GRG in order to help with cash flow, it is difficult to envisage why there is therefore justification in imposing a £4,000 or even £2,000 per week charge for support. There is no indication of what that support entails, but it certainly does not support the cash flow—let us put it that way.

The company I mentioned was also expected to produce new accounts. It had monthly management accounts produced by its accountants, but that was not good enough for the bank, which had to have KPMG to do the work. Again, it was not good enough for the bank for the company to use its solicitors to value assets that were subsequently sold; it had to use solicitors chosen by the bank. That is oppressive behaviour by the GRG towards businesses that it is allegedly meant to be supporting.

It is important to bear in mind that when we highlight such cases, the concern is that we have examples from throughout the country, which makes the case that there is an issue here that needs to be looked at. I am pleased that the regulatory authorities are taking a look at the Tomlinson report, but I hope that they also take on board the comments made today by me and other Members on our experiences of businesses not included in the Tomlinson report. This is happening throughout the country and it needs to be highlighted.

I also want to highlight an interview with Derek Sach, the founder of the GRG, by Debtwire in October 2012, which is rather chilling to someone who is of the view that the bank ought to be there to support small businesses. He describes the steady flow of “new distressed businesses” into the GRG as an opportunity. That is a key point. If the head of the GRG considers that distressed businesses coming into his organisation are “opportunities”, his view is that the group is there not to support businesses, but to gain commercial advantage on the back of those businesses. Furthermore, if any Members present represent a shipping business, they should be concerned, because Mr Sach also emphasised that he sees significant “opportunities” in that sector, because shipping is going through a difficult period—in other words, the GRG vultures are hovering, waiting for a further supply of distressed businesses of which to take advantage.

Throughout the process, I have also seen numerous examples of instructions by the GRG not to prioritise the Crown on VAT, corporation tax or pay-as-you-earn payments. That is concerning from any high street bank, but to see such an instruction to businesses coming from a bank that was supported and saved by the taxpayer should cause serious concern to Government. I hope that the Minister will respond to that specific point.

I have a final point to make before my brief comment on Clifford Chance. The whole insolvency process is a concern. When an insolvency practitioner or administrators go into a business, the poor old creditors will often receive little in return, because the fees will take the vast majority of what is available. Hon. Members need not take my word for that, because in a recent article, James Nicholls of Nicholls & Co, an insolvency lawyer based in Birmingham, highlighted the fact that the insolvency business is complicit in what is, in my view, an abuse of small businesses. He made the point that

“we in the insolvency industry have been complicit, collaborative and have completely failed in what our true roles should be. Almost everyone in our industry has effectively been ‘bought off’ by the Banks—accountants, IPs”—

that is, insolvency practitioners—“lawyers, surveyors—everyone.” That is not my comment but a comment from somebody involved in the insolvency industry. His argument is that the industry has turned a blind eye to the behaviour of the GRG and other turnaround companies: it has been bought off by the fees and affected by the culture that has existed in the past decade.

If we are serious about supporting small businesses and supporting the growth of our economy through their development, we have to ask ourselves whether that sort of attitude towards them—seeing them as opportunities to make money rather than as businesses to be supported—is the right way forward.

[Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con)]

Everything my hon. Friend is saying is familiar to me. I have been supporting a decent-sized manufacturing business in my constituency. The bank concerned is not RBS but another major bank; I want the Minister to be aware of that fact, and I might speak with him afterwards. When a business needs support and is feeling a bit vulnerable, perhaps because it has just lost a contract or is restructuring, instead of getting support from its bank it gets a hike in interest rates and has extra costs imposed on it—for example, an extra £10,000 a month in accountancy costs—and there is no pathway for returning to regular lending.

The circumstances my hon. Friend has described are ones I am seeing with a business in my constituency; instead of getting the support it needs, the bank’s behaviour is creating worry and concern. I am supporting that business as best as I can. This debate is a timely one.

[Guto Bebb]

I appreciate my hon. Friend’s intervention, as it highlights the fact that this is not only an issue for those businesses highlighted in the Tomlinson report but something that we are seeing in our own constituencies.

James Nicholls concludes the article I mentioned by saying that the insolvency industry—by that he means accountants, solicitors, insolvency practitioners and so forth—needs

“to stop defending practices that on close and moral scrutiny just do not stand up to the ‘smell test’.”

I say, “Hear, hear,” to that.

I will conclude my comments by discussing Clifford Chance. I have no doubt, as I said in my opening remarks, that it is a reputable firm of solicitors, and make no comment about its behaviour, which I am sure is of the highest standard. However, by choosing Clifford Chance to undertake an internal review of the allegations made against the GRG, RBS is doing itself a disservice and is not creating any confidence in that review process.

Let us think of the relationship between Clifford Chance and RBS over the past couple of years. Clifford Chance worked on the sale of £80 billion of toxic UK commercial real estate by RBS, which was called Project Isobel internally; it acted on behalf of RBS on the sale of RBS Aviation Capital; it was instructed by RBS to deal with the recent IT outage suffered by RBS and NatWest; and it advised RBS on the LIBOR scandal.

I have no doubt that Clifford Chance feels that it could act impartially on the review, but businesses up and down the country genuinely feel that they have been treated badly by the GRG and RBS and they need to feel confident that the bank is taking their concerns seriously. I would argue that the impression given of a conflict of interests between Clifford Chance and RBS is enough of a reason for RBS to think again and appoint another firm to undertake the review. I welcome the fact that RBS is willing to undertake an internal review, and it has argued that it is creating an independent internal review; but that independence must be beyond reproach. Given the commercial relationship that I have highlighted between Clifford Chance and RBS, it is difficult to make the case that the review will be truly independent and will be able to gain the confidence of the business community. I ask the Minister to convey my concerns on that matter to RBS.

Thank you, Sir Roger, for allowing me to speak for so long on this issue, as I am aware that other Members wish to contribute. My concerns are simple. I believe that the issues highlighted in the Tomlinson report are worthy of consideration, and that it is good that the regulatory authorities are investigating on the basis of the report. But it is also important that Members of this House from all parts of the country highlight their experiences with the global restructuring group. RBS is not, in my view, the only bank to have behaved badly, but RBS and the GRG are the focus of the current report.