Legal Aid Reform

Jane Ellison Excerpts

Thursday 27th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Jane Ellison (Battersea) (Con)]

Before I make some brief remarks on behalf of the many members of the legal profession and the general public who have approached me, may I say a word to the House on behalf of the Backbench Business Committee? The Committee granted this debate to the hon. Member for Brent Central (Sarah Teather) and the right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy) as a general debate with no Division to allow for a wide-ranging and frank discussion, which I think all Members would agree the House is having. We are also extremely mindful of the fact that the debate is over-subscribed and the House needs to give more time to this subject. Does the right hon. Gentleman want to intervene on me at that point to say anything?

[Mr Lammy]

The hon. Lady is a member of the Backbench Business Committee, and I wonder whether she is saying more time could be made available for us to return to this topic and have a vote. I am also mindful that the shadow Secretary of State has not yet spoken, however, and that I may not need to press this debate to a Division.

[Jane Ellison]

I hope it is possible not to do so, for the reason I have just explained. There is also a short, but important, debate to follow.

[Sadiq Khan (Tooting) (Lab)]

If it helps, may I say that as the Justice Secretary is running scared and is not here today, and as the Government are failing to allow a vote on this issue, the Opposition will use some of the limited parliamentary time available to us to hold an Opposition day debate on it?

--- Later in debate ---

[Jane Ellison]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his intervention.

I am not a lawyer, but many points have been put to me by people in the legal professions, and I therefore wish to pick up on a few of those points. Of course I do not think it is unreasonable to look for savings from this budget, just as savings are being looked for from all the others, but the question is how they are to be found. There seems to be a consensus emerging in the House that there are better ways to find savings in this budget than through these particular savings.

May I quote from one of the criminal barristers who wrote to me directly? She said:

“We who work at the ‘coal face’ know where the money can be saved and where the problems are. We are acutely conscious that every Department must sustain a cut in spending. But this is not the right way to do it—we would like to sit down with the MOJ and discuss how we can save money and preserve the justice system at the same time.”

Those are wise words and I think all Members would want us to try to find consensus as to how to proceed.

On the residency test, I represent the last British resident of Guantanamo bay, so I can think of obvious exceptions—people who very much need access to justice and who certainly would not qualify under that test. Turning to a slightly less dramatic aspect, I am also particularly concerned about victims of human trafficking. I said this in my submission to the consultation:

“Had I applied this test as an MP, a number of vulnerable constituents who I have been able to help would not have qualified. I would particularly wish to be assured that the proposed residency test would not stop victims of human trafficking or modern slavery being represented.”

Much has been said about the issue of high street firms. Not every high street firm is absolutely brilliant, and that is especially in an area in which I work a lot. I have a large immigration case load, and about 15% of my constituents do not receive notification of their leave to remain or get their papers back in a timely fashion, and we often have to chase them up. I would therefore just say that everyone can look to improve.

Price competitive tendering has been discussed, and I was particularly struck by the point made by the hon. Member for Redcar (Ian Swales) about the potential for end-to-end vested interests. That is particularly concerning and gave us all pause for thought. I also fundamentally agree with the points made by Conservative colleagues about price competitive tendering, and in particular the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Dewsbury (Simon Reevell). It just does not feel like a naturally Conservative solution to a problem potentially to drive choice and competition out of the market. That just does not feel like what we should be doing.

Finally, I want to say a few words about the smooth running of the justice system, drawing on my own experience of particularly complex cases involving, sadly, people stuck in the revolving door of prison and the justice system, and often involving drugs and so forth. The Government are seeking to address that in a way I applaud, but these people often have very complex problems, and the cause of ensuring justice in the courts is almost certainly served by their being able to have some kind of continuity of representation, rather than starting again with a new solicitor every time.

I shall finish a little early to try to ensure that every Member has a chance to speak. To those constituents who may feel I have not touched on their particular point, I say those points have all been touched on in this debate, and I will make sure each of them is aware of what has been said.

The last point I want to make is about the money to be saved by the smoother running of the justice system. In recent weeks I have been stopped on the street by two part-time judges—there is obviously something about Battersea, as part-time judges just stop people in the street. They said that there are enormous savings to be made through the system running more efficiently, with fewer delays and mishaps. They also made the point that a rise in the number of litigants in person will almost certainly have a knock-on impact on the justice system, and not in a helpful or money-saving way.