Gaza (Humanitarian Situation)

James Clappison Excerpts

Wednesday 5th February 2014 Westminster Hall

[Sir Tony Baldry]

I agree entirely with my hon. and learned Friend. He has reinforced the point that it appears was made by both our right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and John Kerry. As a lawyer, I think that there is a question under international law as to how long it is possible for part of the world to be occupied without such an occupied territory becoming part of the de jure state that is occupying it. The point that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State made is that Israel cannot continue to be both a Jewish state and a democracy if it denies rights to 2.5 million Palestinians indefinitely. It would appear that we have months rather than years to resolve the issue.

All that any of us can ask is that Israel, as the occupying power, complies with the norms of international law, and that we see some swift and speedy alleviation of the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

[Mr James Clappison (Hertsmere) (Con)]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for giving way, and I congratulate him on securing this debate. I share his desire for urgency in bringing about a conclusion, or at least progress in the two-state solution talks. What signs has he seen from Hamas, the political power in Gaza, of willingness to participate in a peaceful settlement?

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[Mr James Clappison (Hertsmere) (Con)]

I have visited Israel and the west bank several times, and I occasionally heard Israelis say things about the Palestinians similar to what the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton (Sir Gerald Kaufman) has said about the Israelis. I pointed out that they were wrong to say so and that many Palestinians seek a peaceful solution and look forward to working with Israel in future if possible.

I share with my right hon. Friend the Member for Banbury (Sir Tony Baldry) the humanitarian wish to improve conditions in Gaza, in a practical way. He spoke at length about the juridical and legal situation, going back to the creation of the state of Israel. He will remember that that UN resolution—in 1947, I think—was accompanied by a proposal for a partition of what was then Palestine, under the British mandate, into an Israeli and a Palestinian part. The Israelis accepted that, but the partition did not come about. As soon as the state of Israel was created, the partition was made redundant through an invasion of Palestine by five Arab armies, for the purpose of attacking Israel. It is necessary to move on from there.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

Of course it is necessary to move on. I am afraid that is history, though. We have to address the humanitarian crisis facing us now. That is what my hon. Friend must do.

[Mr Clappison]

I went back to the founding of the state of Israel, but it is worth putting that on the record.

I do not believe, and will not be persuaded, that the state of Israel has any interest in imposing the present conditions on the people of Gaza for the sake of it.

[Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab)]

Come off it!

[Mr Clappison]

Hon. Members need to contain themselves. Israel withdrew unilaterally from Gaza in 2005 under the leadership of Ariel Sharon, and it was hoped that that would bring about a solution to Israel’s immediate problems. It did not. Since then—and my right hon. Friend touched on the point—there have been about 8,000 rocket attacks on Israel. There have been many thousands, certainly.

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[Mr Jim Hood (in the Chair)]

Order. The hon. Gentleman is not making an intervention; he is making a speech.

[Mr Clappison]

The hon. Gentleman will have his chance. I regret all deaths on both sides, but the hon. Gentleman must face the fact that it was Palestinian—Hamas or Islamic Jihad, whatever it was—rocket attacks that began it. In each case that is what has begun the problems.

Israel has no interest per se in doing such things to Gaza. It is in the same position as any state would be that faced rocket attacks on such a scale—not to mention the other terrorist attacks, the digging of tunnels into Israel and attacks on border crossings, which my right hon. Friend the Member for Banbury mentioned. The situation is not helped by suicide attacks on border crossings, or all the other things that have happened in the recent past. Israel has behaved with restraint on many occasions and I hope it will always do so, and that things will improve. However, we must face the fact that the only way to bring about a material improvement is to make progress in the peace talks.

There is a problem for my right hon. Friend the Member for Banbury and others who talk about how urgent it is to get a two-state solution. I agree, but as I understand the matter Hamas has set its face against a peaceful solution in its charter—[Interruption.] I may be corrected, but hon. Members can see the Hamas charter.

There is some doubt about the responsibility of Hamas for the rocket attacks, but in recent times it has, we know, ordered the withdrawal of its forces preventing rocket fire; that has been interpreted in some quarters as giving a green light to rocket attacks. In January the attacks intensified. They must be brought to an end if there is to be a peaceful solution. No country—certainly not this one—would permit its citizens to live under the threat of rocket attacks. We must have progress towards a peaceful situation, and an improvement in the security situation. My right hon. Friend the Member for Banbury is right to make his case about the conditions in Gaza, but they cannot be seen in isolation.

I join my right hon. Friend in wanting progress on a two-state solution, compromise on both sides and, in the meantime, every possible flexibility and accommodation on the part of Israel. I understand that more construction materials have recently been permitted into Gaza—[Interruption.] Hon. Members may have better statistics than I do, but that is what I understand, and I hope for improvements.

I also hope that medical help will be facilitated. I understand that Israel permits a huge proportion of Palestinians seeking medical treatment to leave Gaza and that many receive medical treatment in Israeli hospitals; in some years, it is as many as half of those people. [Interruption.] My right hon. Friend the Member for Banbury spoke at length about medical matters; if he wants to contradict me on that point I shall give way, but I do not have much time left. He should be fair and put what I have said into the balance.

The real solution will be progress in the peace talks. I agree with the Government’s statements. Progress is urgent and important for both sides, and in their interest, but the security situation in Gaza cannot be detached from peace talks, peaceful negotiations and a peaceful settlement. Two countries cannot live in such a state of conflict, with continual attacks by one on the other. We must have a balanced picture. I look forward to future progress, but we must face the fact that Hamas as it stands is an obstacle to a peaceful solution. It amounts to almost half the Palestinian population.

I do not doubt the good faith of the Palestinian Authority about wanting a peaceful solution. We have been told many times that Hamas is about to make progress towards peace, or a statement, or give a sign that it is interested in peace. None has been forthcoming. I hope that those right hon. and hon. Members who take an interest in such things will use their influence with Hamas and the Palestinian side to turn them towards peace. At the moment they have set their face against peace, and they are the problem.

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[Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab)]

The right hon. Member for Banbury (Sir Tony Baldry) has done a great service by securing this debate and setting out so clearly the case for humanitarian intervention in Gaza. There have been many good speeches, not least from my right hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Gorton (Sir Gerald Kaufman), who showed his usual passion on this subject.

I will briefly mention one other supporter of Gaza and its people—my friend, Del Singh. With other hon. Members, I have the sad duty of attending his funeral tomorrow. He was murdered by the Taliban a few weeks ago in Kabul, where he was on a humanitarian mission. I had known him for the past five years as the main organiser of Labour Friends of Palestine and the Middle East, a job that he did brilliantly. The fact that he was killed on humanitarian duty sums up the man. He was a true friend to the Palestinian people. He ran the Gaza marathon two years ago to raise money, and he visited the area often. Del was of Sikh origin, but we have heard today that Muslims, Christians, Jews and those of no religion at all have all strongly supported the people of Gaza’s right to self-determination and their simple right to lead a decent life.

I first visited Gaza shortly after Operation Cast Lead. It was a totally harrowing experience that is completely fresh in my mind five years on. It was the complete evisceration of a society, with the systematic and organised destruction of industry and villages. It was what can only be called murder, including the murder of whole families. There was shelling of hospitals, which was done knowingly, and white phosphorus was used. These were war crimes, just as the occupation itself is a crime against international law. To say that these are not deliberate and knowing acts by the Israeli Government is naivety or worse. What is so distressing—

[Mr Clappison]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Slaughter]

I will not, if the hon. Gentleman does not mind.

[Mr Clappison]

I gave way to him.

[Mr Slaughter]

I would give way, but other hon. Members want to speak. I am sure that it was important.

[Mr Clappison]

If the hon. Gentleman will give way—

[Mr Jim Hood (in the Chair)]

Order. The hon. Gentleman has got his answer. The hon. Gentleman speaking is not going to give way. I should mention that any intervention will come off other people’s time.