Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Chris Evans

Thursday 17th October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising that. As a constituency MP, taking off my Government hat, there is no organisation that I find it harder to deal with on behalf of my constituents or one that is less sympathetic to my constituents. I am glad that he has raised that point, because I think all of us in the House have the same interest which is that that organisation should provide a better and a fairer service, and I am sure that this will be noted by the relevant Minister.

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

Campaigners fighting to save Pontllanfraith leisure centre were heartened by news this week that Caerphilly County Borough Council cabinet will pause the closure. However, that is not an isolated case. Other campaign groups have contacted me who are fighting to save their leisure services. With an obesity crisis in this country and participation in sport down, can we have an urgent debate in this House on access to sport and leisure?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I think there is a general feeling that more exercise is a good thing, as long as I do not personally have to involve myself; I have never been the most energetic of individuals. The hon. Gentleman raises a serious point, and it is a good idea to secure a debate on that issue. The most exercise I used to take was bobbing to try to get called when I wanted to involve myself in a statement, and now that I am on the Front Bench, I do not even have to do that. He could request an Adjournment debate, but I think the best route to go down would be a Backbench Business debate, because he may want a longer debate, and the issue has a wider application than purely his own constituency.

Budget Resolutions

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Chris Evans

Wednesday 22nd November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Chris Evans]

I would have liked to have heard at least some sort of plan about the single market and the customs union. I would say—I shall diverge a little, if you will allow me, Madam Deputy Speaker—that those of us who are concerned about Brexit have been unfairly attacked as remoaners when we simply want to get the best deal for the country as we leave the EU. Some £3 billion has been put aside for Brexit, but we heard nothing from the Chancellor about £350 million per week for the NHS. Perhaps the Chancellor wants to drag the Foreign Secretary here to talk about where that £350 million is, because I have not seen it. While he is at it, perhaps he will talk to the nurses.

[Mr Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con)]

Patrick Minford has worked out that if we move to free trade, the £350 million will be available for the NHS, but only when we leave the European Union, which has not happened yet.

[Chris Evans]

I respect the hon. Gentleman as a parliamentarian, but he is wrong about this. He knows that that was a false statement made by the leave side to try to con people into voting leave. There is no point in standing by that claim anymore.

The thing is that we heard nothing in the Budget about Brexit; all we heard is that it will not be dominated by Brexit. Well, I am afraid the Chancellor is wrong: every Budget from here on in will be dominated by the consequence of leaving the European Union.

The Budget went on and on and on. There were terms that the Tories would love. We heard about a strong Government and that we will be resolute in our determination to bring about a strong economy. It took eight pages before we got to the real story of this Budget: quite simply, productivity growth is down and is continuing to fall. The Chancellor is the first since world war two—this is something he should be proud of —who has stood at the Dispatch Box and said that growth will be below 2%. It gets worse: the figure is 1.5% in 2017, 1.4% in 2018, and 1.3% in 2019 and 2020. It will hopefully then pick up to 1.5% and, finally, to 1.6% in 2022. At the same point, debt will be at its highest level ever—and there the Government are being over-optimistic.

If we are not going to talk about Brexit, we should at least talk about the fundamental weakness in our economy: productivity. Productivity has failed to return to pre-crash levels, and it does not look like that is going to happen any time soon. The OBR has revised its estimates of Britain’s long-term productivity gains and economic growth. It claims that this means that Britain’s economy will not bounce back from the financial crisis, and output per worker probably will not recover to its pre-crisis rate of 2.1%.

Our productivity crisis will mean larger budget deficits in future years. A downgrade in productivity, and therefore depressed earnings, will mean that future tax revenues take a serious long-term hit. The downgrade will create a £20 billion black hole in the UK’s public finances, according to the Institute for Fiscal Studies.

We cannot hide this problem anymore. The Government should not be so timid and so scared of their friends from Ireland. We need radical solutions. Things have not worked. We cannot go on all the time with this rhetoric that things are going to improve. We have to take action, and that must happen now.

For me, the most fundamental error the Government have made since they came to power in 2010 is failing to get to grips with the banking system. We need to boost business investment through a network of regional banks. Germany has thousands of banks, including vibrant state-run and co-operative sectors, many focused on lending specifically to small and medium-sized businesses. In Britain, just five banks hold 85% of all current accounts. The Chancellor could learn from the German model by enabling a new generation of mutually owned building societies and savings banks to focus on driving long-term investment, rather than short-term dividends for their shareholders.