Agricultural Wages Board

Jack Dromey Excerpts

Wednesday 24th April 2013 Commons Chamber

[Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

I start by declaring an interest: as deputy general secretary of the old Transport and General Workers Union and then Unite, I represented agricultural workers for much of my working life, and was proud so to do.

I start by celebrating England’s green and pleasant land—our hills, our valleys, our forests, our farms, our rivers and our seashores, captured in that great hymn to the countryside, Linden Lea:

“Within the woodlands, flow’ry gladed,

By the oak tree’s mossy moot,

The shining grass-blades, timber-shaded,

Now do quiver under foot…

And brown-leaved fruits a-turning red,

In cloudless sunshine, overhead…

To where, for me, the apple tree

Do lean down low in Linden Lea.”

But elsewhere in that great hymn to the English countryside it reads:

“I don’t dread a peevish master;

Though no man may heed my frowns”.

That great hymn captured both the beauty of our countryside and another reality, which is that all too often the countryside has been scarred by the unfair treatment of workers and rural poverty. I have worked with farmers all my working life, so I am the first to acknowledge the changes in the industry and the many very good farming industry employers, but there remain to this day real problems.

The 19th century, from Tolpuddle onwards, was a century of struggle, with real progress being made in the 20th century, but before anyone argues today that exploitation in the countryside is a thing of the past, let me say this. I listened to the Prime Minister at Prime Minister’s Question Time speaking, and rightly so, about modern-day slavery. Some of the worst examples of slavery, historically and in the modern day, were practised by gangmasters, as was seen at its most obscene in the tragic death of 22 young Chinese cockle-pickers on the bleak, cold shores of Morecambe bay.

As a consequence of that incident, I chaired the coalition of support that brought the Gangmasters (Licensing) Act 2004 into law. It was a private Member’s Bill promoted by my hon. Friend the Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North (Jim Sheridan). There was a remarkable coalition from plough to plate, from the National Farmers Union to the supermarkets. I shared platforms with Baroness Gillian Shepherd, and we stood together, arguing for a measure that was essential to tackle some of the most obscene practices in the world of work in our country. Sadly, now, we are seeing, on the one hand, the scaling back of the operation of the Gangmasters Licensing Authority and, on the other hand, the proposed abolition of the AWB.

It was Winston Churchill who first took action, as President of the Board of Trade, in 1908. He argued then that we needed fair treatment and to act to keep labour on the land. That was legislated for by the Attlee Government and championed by Harold Macmillan. That is 100 years of history now about to be torn up. I absolutely do not accept the argument that the Agricultural Wages Board is no longer relevant in modern times.

[Mr Bellingham]

The hon. Gentleman obviously has a great deal of expertise, and I agree entirely with his points about the Gangmasters Licensing Authority. I supported that Bill, as did a number of my colleagues, when we were in opposition. After the war, many farmers employed perhaps 50 or 60 people on what would now be considered a smallish family farm, and there was of course a need for a trade union and for the Agricultural Wages Board. It would have been difficult for those farmers to negotiate with their farm workers without such a board. Now, however, those farmers employ a tiny number of people who are much better paid because of the relationship between the farmer and the workers which never existed in the past.

[Jack Dromey]

We have an atomised work force. There has been a progressive change in employment patterns from what was typically the case 50 years ago to smaller, more flexible work forces with a lot of contract labour and very few people being permanently employed on farms. Having said that, the statistics show that the majority of those covered by the AWB still need the minimum standards that the board lays down. I will come to that point in a moment.

I do not accept that the board is an historical anachronism—far from it—not least because half the work force is aged 55 and over and we still need to recruit and retain people to work on the land. Nor is it true to suggest that the board was set in aspic and never changed. Over the years, as a consequence of some very good dialogue, a modernisation process took place.

The proposal for the AWB’s abolition is fundamentally wrong for four reasons. The first involves fair treatment. This is not just about minimum standards. Crucially, it is also about other conditions of employment, which really matter. The simple reality is that the difference between the statutory arrangements and the board’s arrangements will be that, in future, it will be possible for a farmer to pay someone who is off sick £81.60 a week less. Farming is a dangerous occupation for some, and we often see high levels of sickness as a consequence of the work.

Secondly, abolishing the AWB is an inefficient way of proceeding. I asked the House of Commons Library to research the costs of the board, and I was surprised by the answer. I knew that it was lean and effective, but even I was surprised to learn that its administrative costs were £179,000 a year and its enforcement costs were £150,000. That fully functioning Agricultural Wages Board therefore cost a grand total of £329,000.

Now, however, we shall see tens of thousands of negotiations taking place throughout the agriculture sector. I accept that, depending on the nature of the employment pattern, people can often get paid more than the level strictly laid down by the AWB. That happens all the time, as a result of a demand for a particular skill. However, the hon. Member for St Ives (Andrew George) was right to say that, other than in circumstances of exceptional demand, it is convenient for farmers to use the framework laid down by the board. Farmers have said that to me, too. In future, however, we shall see negotiation after negotiation consuming the time and effort of our farmers.

[Andrew George]

My hon. Friend the Member for Camborne and Redruth (George Eustice) suggested earlier that farmers were used to sitting down and negotiating with suppliers of feed, seeds and so on, but there is of course a framework involved in those cases as well, and those farmers know what the framework is when they commence their negotiations. If there is a total free-for-all, we run the risk of creating a race to the bottom.

[Jack Dromey]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to be concerned about a race to the bottom. There are tens of millions of people on the continent who are desperate for work, and the last thing we want to see as a consequence of these proposals is a race to the bottom. My experience suggests that even where farmers depart from the AWB rates of pay—and they often do—it is helpful to have a clear framework and starting point, varied as appropriate in particular circumstances, depending on the skill level required, for example. Something very similar to that was put to me.

My third concern is the impact on local economies. There is no question but that we run the risk of taking out badly needed spending power from our hard-pressed local economies. It is interesting to note the Department’s impact assessment of the costs over a 10-year period: £260 million was, I think, the figure referred to.

Fourthly, we have heard time and again that “other wages councils have been abolished, have they not, and have not been reinstated”. This board is, however, unique in terms of its scope—including, crucially, the issue of tied accommodation. I repeat what my hon. Friend the Member for Wakefield (Mary Creagh) said earlier about the criteria: fit for human habitation, safe and secure, a bed for sole use, drinking water and sanitation. Some might say that all that sounds a bit 19th century, particularly the idea of a bed for one’s own use. They would not say that if they had seen the sort of places I saw when I was deputy general secretary of the old T and G and then of Unite. I saw some of the most shameful accommodation—and not just for those employed by gangmasters, as it was sometimes for those employed by farmers. The great thing about the Agricultural Wages Board is that it lays down very clear basic minimum standards for the kind of accommodation that I hope we would all like to see agricultural workers occupying in our countryside.

[Peter Luff (Mid Worcestershire) (Con)]

I am most grateful, particularly as I was not able to be here for the opening speeches. I agree with the hon. Gentleman about rural poverty, and I strongly support the Gangmasters Licensing Authority, as I campaigned for its existence and it is doing great work in my constituency. In a genuine spirit of curiosity, I ask the hon. Gentleman whether he is saying that farmers are uniquely incapable or uniquely exploitative so that they alone require the Agricultural Wages Board to regulate their behaviour, while every other boss in Britain does not. Is that what he is saying?

--- Later in debate ---

[Jack Dromey]

The board was born out of the experience of the agricultural economies. I have already said that, mercifully, our country has many good farmers who are dealing with changing patterns of mechanisation, the demand for greater skill levels and so forth. Pretending, however, that the exploitation of agricultural workers in the past is somehow simply a problem of the past and not still a problem to this day is not to live in the real world that I have lived in for many years.

Winston Churchill must be turning in his grave. Dare I say it, the two parties of which he was a member have come together to abolish the Agricultural Wages Board for which he laid the path. The Prime Minister has said, after all, that he is proud to be a member of the union—not the Transport and General Workers Union or Unite, but the National Farmers Union. His position, then, is not surprising. It is astonishing, however, that the Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr Heath), who has talked in recent years—not 50 or 100 years ago—about the need not to impoverish the rural working class should now, presumably following a Damascene conversion, talk about the need to get rid of the Agricultural Wages Board as a burdensome anomaly. Perhaps he will explain later how he squares those statements.

In conclusion, this issue is above all about what is in the best interests of the countryside. The question we need to ask ourselves is what kind of country and what kind of countryside we want to live in. I could put it no better than the hon. Member for St Ives did when he spoke earlier about the meaning of us all being “in it together” in circumstances where a £1 million cheque can go to a big farmer on the one hand, while the Agricultural Wages Board is abolished on the other hand. That is why we are unashamedly standing up for the best traditions of our country and the best traditions of our countryside—and the best traditions of our countryside are best served by a fair deal for our countryside.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

The hon. Lady says she has been contacted by just three, but three is three, and I know for a fact that a large number of Members—many of whom are, for understandable reasons, not present for this debate, but who will, I assume, be passing through the voting Lobby—have been extensively lobbied by agricultural workers in their communities. The question is this: how will they vote today?

In the midst of the economic gloom of Osbornomics—that is a commentators’ phrase—with the economy flat-lining and the rural economy suffering too, the Government’s own figures show that more than a quarter of a billion pounds could be taken out of the rural economy following abolition of the AWB, and as my hon. Friend the Member for Wakefield (Mary Creagh) pointed out, we could well add to the burden by increasing rural poverty and the in-work benefits bill to the taxpayer. This is, indeed, the world turned upside down.

[Jack Dromey]

My hon. Friend is making a powerful case. Members on the Government Benches have asked what Labour would do when in power in 2015. I know how difficult it will be to pick up the pieces of this appalling mess, but would my hon. Friend care to comment on that?

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

I welcome the opportunity to do so, because it has wrongly been said that we have already made up our mind not to re-establish the AWB. When the AWB is abolished, it will, in effect, be shattered into little pieces. Its mechanisms will be entirely taken away, but I will tell my hon. Friend what we will do: Labour has already made clear its proposals under the Fair Work Commission—which I hope Members on the Government Benches will support, even though they opposed the work of the Low Pay Commission, which resulted in the national minimum wage, which they have been praising today. There will be a new commission that will consider our emerging proposals on the rural living wage, extending the remit of gangmaster legislation and tackling the agency workers question, and thereby addressing the undercutting of pay and conditions in local areas. That will no doubt be the arena in which our response to the abolition of the AWB will be developed. I suspect—in fact I can guarantee—that the Government parties will not be carrying out any similar piece of work. [Interruption.]

Any pretensions to respect—[Interruption.] I think Government Members want to know whether we would put the egg together again after they have broken it into a thousand pieces. I hope they understand from what I have just said that many of the proposals we already have in relation to the Fair Pay Commission run completely contrary to the free market, deregulatory ideology, and therefore both the Conservative Secretary of State and the Liberal Democrat Minister would oppose them, but I suspect many of the Minister’s Liberal Democrat friends would support them.

Any pretensions of respect for the views of this democratically elected House and the Welsh Government were ripped apart by this coalition Government when they sought at every opportunity to bypass votes and debate in this House. This proposal should have been taken through in full in what was then the Public Bodies Bill, and then brought back here and fully debated at length in this Chamber—and the issue of the legitimate right of the Welsh Government to be heard should also have been discussed. Instead, the proposal was rushed through a pitiful four-week consultation after the new Secretary of State arrived in post. The majority of respondents to that consultation in England and Wales opposed the abolition of the AWB, but that was ignored.

The proposal was then snuck into Committee in the other place in a different Bill, the Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill, which had already left the Commons, thus avoiding the need for any awkward debate here. After heated exchanges, and opposition from bishops, Labour peers and some Cross Benchers, the Lords eventually supported the abolition. When the proposal returned to this House as Lords amendments, we were denied the time and the opportunity to debate it or even to vote on it. So here we are today, in a debate brought by the Labour Opposition.

As we debate this matter today, therefore, the Government have conspired to abolish the AWB through the unelected House of Lords. [Interruption.] The Secretary of State for Education says “Hear, hear.” He may regard democratically elected representatives so lightly, but we do not; we like to have a say on behalf of our rural, and other, constituents. I ask the Government to think again.

I appeal to all parliamentarians who support the abolition to think again. My right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) appealed to Unionist Conservatives who are concerned about taking a cross-England and Wales approach and about cross-border issues to maintain the AWB. In no way is the hon. Member for St Ives somehow in hoc with union paymasters—contrary to the allegations that have been made against Members this afternoon—or acting at someone else’s behest. He speaks independently as the lead voice for the Liberal Democrat party, as opposed to the Minister, on rural issues. On that basis, what we are seeing is quite fascinating.

My hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Tom Blenkinsop) called this a living standards debate. He is quite right. He said the proposal did not make economic or moral sense in the 1980s, under former Prime Minister Thatcher, and it does not make sense now either. My hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Erdington (Jack Dromey) brought some poetry and morality to the debate. He raised the real alternative to abolition, which is further modernisation, which has happened before—a point made also by my hon. Friend the Member for City of Durham (Roberta Blackman-Woods)—and asked the fundamental question: what type of countryside do we want?

My hon. Friend the Member for Llanelli (Nia Griffith) said that fairness was about not just the groceries code adjudicator, but fair pay and conditions. My hon. Friend the Member for Easington (Grahame M. Morris) cited Churchill in defence of the Agricultural Wages Board. As we noted earlier in the debate, even former Prime Minister Thatcher stayed away from abolishing the AWB. There were also great contributions from my hon. Friend the Member for North West Durham (Pat Glass), the hon. Member for Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire (Simon Hart) and others.

I appeal to all those Lib Dem parliamentarians who long held this as a point of principle and who have been lobbied by their constituents. They should stand with their constituents and with us, support low-paid workers and smaller farmers and stand against rural poverty. I appeal to Conservative MPs who want to speak up for all their constituents, small farmers as well as large, low-paid as well as wealthy. They should be compassionate, one nation Tories, not just the representatives of the wealthy and the powerful in the countryside. If I cannot appeal to their better nature, let me appeal to their baser political instinct—not least those whose parliamentary majorities are smaller than the number of agricultural workers in the constituencies affected, such as the hon. Members for Sherwood (Mr Spencer) and for Camborne and Redruth (George Eustice), and many others.

I am glad we have had this debate. Some have commented that it is like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted. That is no fault of ours, but when the vote comes, people will see where Members stand on a fair rural community, fair wages and fair conditions for everyone.

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mr David Heath)]

The hon. Member for Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire (Simon Hart) did the House a service by pointing out the disparity between last night’s excellent debate in the name of the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies)—in which we heard contributions from all parts of the House, from Members who knew rural areas, knew the agricultural industry, were deeply committed to it and understood what the implications were—and today’s debate, which sadly has on occasions fallen short of that ideal.

That is not to say that there are not Members present who very much understand rural areas and represent their constituents, but that is not how I would characterise the opening speech from the hon. Member for Wakefield (Mary Creagh), representing Islington Labour and its deeply patronising view of what happens in rural areas and the capabilities of people who work in rural areas. I resent that in the same way that the hon. Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish) did. However, we welcome the fact that the hon. Lady has finally returned to the Chamber to hear the conclusion, if not the substance, of the debate that she called.

Let us deal with the issues raised, the first of which is the lack of debate on this issue. I am extremely sorry: I regret that there have not been debates on the precise motions that came from the other place last week. However, to say that there has been no debate on the issue is nonsense. Over the last three years I have debated this subject for hours with Members represented in this debate. We have had endless debates on a subject on which everybody knew every side of the argument, so that claim is nonsense. We could even have addressed it—I say this to my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives (Andrew George), who made the point of order—when we had the debate on the Lords amendments the other day. Indeed, had the shadow Business Secretary, the hon. Member for Streatham (Mr Umunna)—whom we are always glad to see in this country from his clubbing expeditions abroad—decided that this issue needed to be debated, as colleagues say it does, he could have done so. There was time to debate it but he chose to make speeches on other subjects instead. That is why we had no debate.

The hon. Member for North West Durham (Pat Glass) said that there was no meaningful consultation and that we did not notify people. I sent 13,000 letters to every single person or organisation covered by the order on agricultural wages, explaining what was to be done and asking for comments. That is unprecedented. It did not happen under the Labour Government but we did it because we wanted to ensure that people had the opportunity to respond.

The issue of Wales was raised. Let me let the House into a secret: I did not produce the legislation that provided for the devolution settlement in Wales, and Labour’s devolution settlement did not devolve employment issues to the Welsh Assembly Government. That is why such matters remain an issue for this House and this Government. No amount of argument from Welsh Ministers will change that settlement, only a change in the statutory format for the devolution settlement, which I do not believe the Labour party supports.

Let us consider the substance of this case, which is the crux of the matter.

[Jack Dromey]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Heath]

I will because the hon. Gentleman has some knowledge on this subject and I therefore welcome his views.

[Jack Dromey]

Will the Minister tell the House at what point and why he moved from believing that the abolition of the Agricultural Wages Board would

“impoverish the rural working class”

to his current position of saying that it must be abolished as it is a “burdensome anomaly”?

[Mr Heath]

There were a number of points. There was the introduction of the Part-time Workers (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2000, the Employment Act 2002, the Fixed-term Employees (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2002, the Gangmasters (Licensing) Act 2004, the Pensions Act 2008, the Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Act 2009, and the Agency Workers Regulations 2010. All those provided the protections that I wanted for rural workers. They exist, and that is why we no longer need the Agricultural Wages Board, because it duplicates that position. I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his intervention, and I am glad he asked me that question.

In reality, when we debated these issues, Labour Members in support of the Labour Government resisted me when I spoke about rural poverty and denied that the biggest single removal of money from rural areas was the fuel escalator, which far outweighed anything that could possibly happen through the provision under discussion. They resisted my Fuel Poverty Bill applying to rural areas; they would not even allow for the existence of rural poverty, yet now they have the nerve to lecture the Government about what happens in rural areas.

Let me be clear because misinformation—deliberate I think—is being spread about some areas of this subject. There is a suggestion that people who work in the agriculture industry will no longer have any protection, which is absolute nonsense. The national minimum wage affects 99.5% of all workers in this country but is apparently hopelessly inadequate for the other 0.5%. However, I believe that the national minimum wage—which after the recent settlement is now well ahead of the first grade of pay for agricultural workers—is a valuable protection.

Every single worker who is currently paid under the protection of the Agricultural Wages Board will continue to receive that protection and to enjoy every aspect of their pay and conditions, and we shall ensure that they receive the benefit of legislative protection on that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jack Dromey Excerpts

Thursday 25th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Richard Benyon]

Along with the Department for Energy and Climate Change, we are conducting a review of policies relating to onshore wind. I hope that my hon. Friend will contribute his concerns and those of his local community to that review, because we want to ensure that local communities work with the Government and do not feel put upon by them when it comes to renewable energy systems.

[Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

T8. In 2009, the Minister said :“any weakening of the Agricultural Wages Board or its abolition would further impoverish the rural working class, exacerbating social deprivation and the undesirable indicators associated with social exclusion”.What has changed, and how would he explain that change to the 1,020 workers who were previously protected by the board in his constituency?

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mr David Heath)]

I think I know rather more about workers in my constituency than the hon. Gentleman. I am aware of the circumstances in the agricultural industry, and I am also aware that there are now many protections for low-paid workers. I would not be proceeding with the consultation unless I was convinced that this was in the interests of those who work in my constituency and throughout the country.

Gangmasters Licensing Authority

Jack Dromey Excerpts

Wednesday 20th June 2012 Westminster Hall

[Mr Paice]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that clarification. I was trying to make the point that he rightly referred in his opening remarks to some of the social problems from which my constituency and his suffer as a result of migrant workers. Many of them, as I know full well from my own constituency, are not only here perfectly legally, but operating under licensed gangmasters and earning an income that allows them to buy cans of beer that they then consume outside somebody else’s house. They do not always fully understand British culture and ways of life.

I have announced a package of proposed changes to the GLA, including removing from its scope low-risk areas as far as worker abuse is concerned, streamlining the licensing process, and—this was my hon. Friend’s key point—looking at the scope to use civil penalties. He is right that, at present, the GLA board has very few enforcement weapons, other than its ultimate weapon, which is to withdraw the licence. He is right that we need a tier of measures for it to utilise. The proposed changes also include changes to the GLA board’s governance and structure.

During the earlier debate, the hon. Member for Ogmore referred to some of the issues that are being removed from the scope. I nearly responded to him then, but decided to leave it until now. On cultivated shellfish, let me be clear that we are removing the use of directly employed workers so, if anybody who cultivates shellfish lawfully on land for which they hold title directly employs workers, they will not be covered. If they use a gangmaster, they will still be covered. I just wanted to make that clear. Overall, the changes will ensure that the GLA is better able to concentrate on where it really matters.

[Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Jim Dobbin (in the Chair)]

When the hon. Gentleman intervenes, will he clarify what capacity he is speaking in?

[Jack Dromey]

I am speaking not on behalf of the Opposition, but as someone who chaired the coalition that established the Gangmasters Licensing Authority in the first place.

[Mr Paice]

I think that it is up to me, but I am happy to give way.

[Jack Dromey]

Thank you, Mr Dobbin. I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. I chaired the coalition that brought into being the Gangmasters Licensing Authority—from plough to plate, from the National Farmers Union to the supermarkets—and was one of those who appointed the first chairman of the GLA. Does the Minister accept that the GLA has been a great success, that it is efficient and effective in stamping out modern-day slavery and that it is now tackling the growing scandal of trafficking? Will he give an assurance that there is no question of the GLA’s vital work being compromised or undermined?

[Mr Paice]

There is a slight trap in what the hon. Gentleman asks me, because if I were to say yes to the first part of his question, he would immediately react by saying, “Well, why make any changes?” I cannot agree that everything the GLA has done has been perfect. We do not think that, which is precisely why we have reviewed it and are making changes. However, I can give him the assurance he referred to. That is why we have gone against recommendations, as the hon. Member for Ogmore pointed out in the earlier debate, to get rid of the GLA. We want to protect the most vulnerable workers, but we believe that it is time to refocus the GLA’s work precisely on that, rather than perhaps dissipating some of its efforts on much lower-risk sectors such as forestry, where there is no evidence of it being necessary whatsoever. I can give him that assurance.

Overall, the changes being made will ensure that the GLA is better able to target what we mean by suspected serious and organised crime, and that evidence of worker exploitation leads to successful investigation and prosecution of organised crime. As the hon. Member for Birmingham, Erdington (Jack Dromey) mentioned, that includes the increasing problem of trafficking.

I can assure my hon. Friend the Member for North East Cambridgeshire, who I know has had a meeting with the chairman of the GLA—I am conscious that she is observing these proceedings—that the intention to work across multi-agencies is to be enhanced. He talked about a number of illegal gangmasters. I do not know whether they are illegal. He might well be right, but I am not in a position to judge. However, the GLA needs that intelligence, which is why it needs to work with other enforcement bodies—whether in terms of immigration, the UK Border Agency, the police, the Serious Organised Crime Agency or whoever—to put all this together to ensure that they can combat trafficking and illegal activities across the piece.

We will remove an estimated 150 licence holders from the scope of the GLA, which will obviously save some money and bureaucracy. However, I certainly do not believe that that will in any way dampen the GLA’s effectiveness. The GLA will still regulate all licence holders and potential licence holders in the areas for which it is responsible. As I said, it can therefore concentrate on the worst abuses and examples of exploitation. On 1 June, the chief executive of the GLA, Ian Livsey, said on the “Farming Today” programme:

“This is all about risk and resources. People that apply for a licence will actually be checked. The checks that we will do though will be risk based so we’ll be using information that we have ourselves and information from other Government departments. It’s not true that people won’t be being checked when they make an application.”

It is very important to emphasise that.

The issue is not generally those who make an application. As my hon. Friend implied, the issue is often those who do not apply and have not got a licence. We need the criminal intelligence on that. The chair of the GLA, Margaret McKinlay, to whom I have referred, is also clear that there is room to improve the way in which the GLA operates, communicates and manages relations with those it regulates. In that, she has the benefit of positive working with the highly committed staff of the GLA.

It is fair to say that, after six years of the GLA’s existence, there is a much better understanding of the areas where the greatest risks to vulnerable workers lie. Conversely, given the unique features of the workers whom the GLA regulates in the sectors that it covers, we do not support any extension of the GLA’s scope or remit. The issue is not about extending the scope of the GLA either to construction or other sectors; it is about focusing the authority’s activities where its input is most needed to tackle worker abuse and exploitation. We also need to improve its processes, so that those who are compliant are not burdened and we can ensure that it is effectively positioned within the Government’s wider employment law framework.

Gangmasters Licensing Authority

Jack Dromey Excerpts

Tuesday 21st February 2012 Westminster Hall

[Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Brady, and I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray) for initiating this debate.

I want to tell a story about what happened in February 2008. Five years after the Morecambe bay tragedy, a commemorative event was organised by the Chinese community in London. Given my involvement in the Gangmasters (Licensing) Bill and its passage into law, I was asked to attend. Two young Chinese women read out letters from relatives of those who had died at Morecambe bay. I do not mind admitting that I, together with everyone else, was in tears as we heard heartbreaking stories of Chinese workers who had come to build a new life in Britain, ringing home on their mobile phones. One story in particular always sticks in my mind. The daughter said: “He was weeping. He asked me to quickly get his mother and his wife. He wanted to say farewell because the water was lapping at his chest. He knew that there was no way out and that he was about to die.”

My hon. Friend the Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North (Jim Sheridan) did the cause of social justice in Britain an outstanding service by taking through the Bill, and he is right to say that its origins predated Morecambe bay. However, the appalling tragedy of February 2003 brought together the country, all political parties, communities and the industry, to ensure that never again would we have a Morecambe bay tragedy. There was a remarkable coalition of support from Plough to Plate and the National Farmers Union to the supermarkets, and there was also a remarkable all-party coalition. I remember appearing on many platforms with my hon. Friend the Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North and with Gillian Shephard, who was then a Member of Parliament and spoke in support of the Bill.

At the time, I was deputy general secretary of the Transport and General Workers Union, and I saw an utter determination across party politics and throughout the industry to end modern day slavery and ensure the fair treatment of workers and fair competition. There were honourable gangmasters such as Zad Padda, who spoke out and complained bitterly about how difficult it was to be a reputable gangmaster in what he described as a jungle. Workers were not only treated unfairly, but reputable gangmasters were undercut. The legislation sought to reassure decent farmers that they were using reputable gangmasters and assure shoppers in supermarkets that the goods they were buying were not the product of modern day slavery. It was the most complex private Member’s Bill in 30 years, but it became law.

[Jim Dobbin in the Chair]

I was privileged to be asked by Members from across the parties, and by the industry, together with the then president of the National Farmers Union, Tim Bennett, to appoint the first chairman of the Gangmasters Licensing Authority, Paul Whitehouse. He is a remarkable man who provided outstanding leadership in setting up what was, without doubt, the most effective of the enforcement agencies. It was governed by a board that brought together the other enforcement agencies and the totality of the industry.

The track record of the Gangmasters Licensing Authority is remarkable. The Hampton review pointed out that it has been impressive given its size, and indeed it has. Its achievements in raising standards throughout agriculture and fisheries were welcomed by the overwhelming majority of gangmasters, including the Association of Labour Providers. The authority has rightly driven rogues out of the industry, and recovered millions of pounds for the public purse, including by combating tax avoidance.

The Equality and Human Rights Commission was right to say that the Gangmasters Licensing Authority is the most effective of the enforcement agencies. Its approach to raising standards has been positive and underpinned by the unmistakable message that has been sent to rogue gangmasters and disreputable farmers—there are some—that if they break the law, penalties will be rigorously enforced.

If the Gangmasters Licensing Authority was powerful in the past, it is all the more powerful now because of the issues that it is tackling, which include labour and human trafficking. It works in close consultation with agencies that range from the Home Office to the police. Given the reasons why the GLA was set up, its success and the issues that it now tackles, it seems extraordinary that we should need such a debate because of the red tape review. We should start by celebrating the success of a remarkable organisation and ensure that it has continuing resources to do its job. We should not debate scaling back the Gangmasters Licensing Authority, but consider how we can make it yet more effective and extend its powers and scope.

I take the point that such decisions should be evidence-based. If we consider the evidence, however, there is a powerful case for extending the authority of the GLA into the construction industry. Evidence suggests that the same gangmasters found in agriculture and fisheries also operate in construction. Powers, including the ability to impose civil penalties, should make it easier for the GLA to act against disreputable gangmasters and recover moneys for the public purse. That is the debate that we should be having; we should not have to defend the GLA in the way that I am doing, albeit proudly. I therefore hope that the Government will seriously reflect on the red tape review and put beyond doubt any question mark over the future of the GLA.

[Jim Sheridan]

I suppose that it is right and responsible that we always check red tape. That is being done through the red tape challenge, the red tape review or whatever it is called. However, I am not aware of a single employer, during the time that we were negotiating, raising objections to the Gangmasters (Licensing) Act 2004. Perhaps through my hon. Friend, I can ask the Minister whether there is any evidence of a single employer who has asked for the 2004 Act to be rescinded or for the authority to be merged into some obscure department.

[Jack Dromey]

My hon. Friend makes a very powerful point. I remember a meeting in the House during the passage of the Bill that he addressed. I chaired the meeting. Sitting to my left was Gillian Shephard. Sitting to my right was the president of the National Farmers Union. Sitting to his right were two senior chief executives of two of the major supermarkets. Sitting to Gillian Shephard’s left were two gangmasters. It was a remarkable meeting. All of them were saying the same thing—the time had come to tackle what was a jungle, characterised by serious exploitation, because it shamed our society, and together we were determined to act to end that modern-day slavery.

The debate should be about considering how we make an outstanding organisation yet more effective, tackling exploitation wherever there is evidence of it, including in other sectors, and following the evidence into those sectors—the case in relation to construction is particularly powerful.

I will conclude by saying—this is not aimed at the Minister here today—that I have sometimes been involved in debates with Ministers who, when the word “regulation” is mentioned, hold up a clove of garlic in one hand and a cross in the other. Unashamedly, this debate is about regulation, but this regulation is right. It is effective. It tackles extreme exploitation. Ultimately, the debate is about what kind of society we want to live in. If what happened at Morecambe bay shamed Britain, there should be an utter determination to say, “Never, ever again.”

[Jim Dobbin (in the Chair)]

I intend to start the winding-up speeches at 12.10 pm