Abortion Services Commissioning: Northern Ireland

Ian Paisley Excerpts

Tuesday 14th December 2021 Westminster Hall

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

Thank you, Mr Pritchard, it is an honour to serve under your chairmanship. I congratulate the hon. Member for Pontypridd (Alex Davies-Jones) on bringing the matter to the attention of the House. She is absolutely right that this is a narrow debate on a narrow set of issues. It is not, therefore, about women’s rights, despite the fact that what we have heard today has been padded out with a lot of comments about women’s rights.

It is not, unfortunately, about the rights of the unborn child, whom we should pause to consider, because no one ever speaks up for them. No one ever speaks up for that beating heart in a mother’s womb; no one ever gives voice to that. Today is not about that, unfortunately. Today is about the narrow confines of the rule of law, and where law should properly made.

I am aghast at the irony of today’s debate. We have had a lot of comment about this being the rightful place to make these laws, and how it is not a contradiction to stand as a Member from another devolved region and say that the devolved Assembly in Northern Ireland has no right to make those laws and regulations. When that region is currently in court on these very matters, trying to shape the laws of Northern Ireland, it is the most abhorrent contradiction for this place to try to grasp that power back, and the Assembly in Northern Ireland is on this very day debating some of the issues that pertain to this matter. The irony is not lost on anyone, except the unborn.

[Scott Benton (Blackpool South) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend for giving way; he is a great champion for the life of the unborn child, as are all his DUP colleagues. Does he share my concern that the regulations violate the terms of the Northern Ireland Act 1998 and fundamentally dishonour the devolution settlement? That point is particularly appropriate now that Stormont has been restored.

[Ian Paisley]

That was a telling point and absolutely right and proper. Yes, this does dishonour and betray the devolution settlement. There are no two ways about; that is the only want it cuts. When powers are devolved to one region and then it is decided that it is not doing things the way we like, so the powers should be taken back, that is not lost on anyone.

We are not allowed to make up facts in this debate. The myth has been projected today that the majority of people in Northern Ireland agree to and with the most liberal abortion laws in any other part of the United Kingdom. Given that that has never been tested, that statement is erroneous and not factual. Any time the Assembly has voted on such matters over the years, it has taken the other view. Whenever this House has voted on it, the representatives from Northern Ireland who attend this place were divided, but the majority voted against the new regulations as outlined.

We cannot make up the facts and pretend that, because one or two Members support this, all Northern Ireland supports it. That is a myth and one that has to be challenged. Talk to any section of society in Northern Ireland, in the tribal way that Northern Ireland is often caricatured—talk to members of the Roman Catholic faith, members of the Protestant faith, members of no faith—and one will find that the weight of opinion is solidly for the rights of the unborn child. That is the socially conservative society that Northern Ireland actually is.

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

My hon. Friend makes a valid point. Some 80% of respondents to the consultation on the imposition of the legislation did not want it imposed on Northern Ireland, which completely dispels the myth that the majority of people in Northern Ireland are pro-abortion. In fact, they are pro-life.

[Ian Paisley]

I do not need to make the point, because my hon. Friend has just made it so exceptionally well.

When the regulations were first set in train in July 2019, it was argued in this Parliament that Parliament was duty-bound to pass the amendment that became section 9 because Northern Ireland, it was stated, was in violation of its international human rights obligations under the convention on the elimination of all forms of discrimination against women and the recommendations of the 2018 CEDAW Committee report on Northern Ireland.

However, when ones drills down into that report, the explanatory memorandum to the Abortion (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2021 acknowledges the fact, which the Government now confirm, that paragraphs 85 and 86 of the CEDAW Committee report, which the House rested upon when it made its case in 2019, do not constitute legally binding international obligations. Constantly, those arguing for these liberal laws hang their hat on the false premise that it was an international obligation, when it was no such thing. That myth needs to be dispelled. We should not base our laws upon a lie, and that is what has happened. That is why people are so agitated about what the Government did.

The hon. Member for Pontypridd is right: everyone is entitled to their own opinions on these serious, weighty and emotional matters; however, they and the Government are not entitled to make a pretence that the law was an international obligation that had to be followed when it was no such thing. The Government have now changed their former line of reasoning, arguing that it is the 2019 Act rather than the CEDAW recommendations that requires them to force Stormont to implement the Abortion (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2020 and the 2021 regulations. If ever something has been made perverse, it is the way in which the law is now being argued for.

It is plainly an untenable situation, where non-binding recommendations have been misrepresented to create a binding Act that removes any obligation to and any protection that the unborn child heretofore had. In doing so, the Government leave Northern Ireland in a straitjacket on one of the most sensitive issues that it could ever consider. The UK Government should not have imposed the same law on Northern Ireland that the UN Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities has criticised in respect of the United Kingdom. That committee expressed its concern

“about perceptions in society that stigmatize persons with disabilities…and about the termination of pregnancy at any stage on the basis of fetal impairment.”

By allowing for abortion up to birth—think of it—in cases of non-foetal disabilities such as Down’s syndrome, cleft lip and club foot, the regulations are deeply offensive to the values of Northern Irish people and their politicians.

The House is currently considering a private Member’s Bill that the Government have given fair wind to, introduced by the right hon. Member for North Somerset (Dr Fox), on the rights of children with disabilities. I am honoured to be the secondary sponsor of that Bill. On the one hand, Parliament is trying to introduce laws to protect children with Down’s syndrome, to honour them and to give them their place in society. At the same time, this House says, “Destroy that Down’s syndrome child.” That is what is perverse and wrong, and it is why people are so agitated.

We shall see evidence of that in the latest progress of the Severe Fetal Impairment Abortion (Amendment) Bill, which is being debated as we speak in Stormont. There is a myth that a majority of Northern Ireland politicians are for these liberal laws, when, in fact, the only vote that has taken place in the legislative Assembly since these laws were introduced was on a law to amend them and to remove some of the most horrible liberal policies that affect the unborn. That point, and that sense of irony, is not lost on us.

I welcome the fact of this debate. I also welcome the fact that the Opposition are not here in force today. I think that is surprising, because the Opposition have made a habit of trying to push these matters on to Northern Ireland. I think that, perhaps, under their leader the penny is starting to drop that they cannot keep interfering in the devolution process. They cannot keep saying on the one issue—the Protocol—that they cannot get involved in a debate because they are defending the Belfast agreement, and then the next day come into this place and say, “We want to interfere in the Belfast agreement, set its issues aside, and interfere in a piece of legislation in Northern Ireland.” They cannot have it both ways—that is the message that we send out. This House cannot have it both ways, because that would be obscene and it would be wrong.

Today, I proudly proclaim my defence of, and give my voice to, the unborn. The unborn have a right to life. It is not a health issue to remove the life of an unborn child. It is a moral issue, and this House should have the moral compass to do what is right.

--- Later in debate ---

[Tonia Antoniazzi (Gower) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Pritchard. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Pontypridd (Alex Davies-Jones) on securing this timely debate on the commissioning of abortion services in Northern Ireland. I am proud of her work, as my predecessor, for women and girls in Northern Ireland. I will endeavour to do all that I can to support them.

At the beginning of my parliamentary career, I worked as Parliamentary Private Secretary to the shadow Northern Ireland team and was a member of the Women and Equalities Committee. This afforded me the opportunities to work with colleagues in Northern Ireland and to have a greater insight into the inequality of women in Northern Ireland compared with the rest of the UK. I had the opportunity to meet the hon. Member for Belfast South (Claire Hanna) before she was in this place. I remember the conversation well. She spoke today about compassion and learning and that this issue is a journey. I think we all understand what a journey it is for women in Northern Ireland.

Being part of the Women and Equalities Committee when it did the report on abortion law in Northern Ireland gave me an in-depth view of the change that was needed to move forward. I pay tribute to all the organisations and politicians who spoke to us. Moreover, I pay tribute to the women who shared their deeply personal experiences with us as well.

The standpoint of the Labour Front Bench is that these women should have the right to make an informed choice. Any woman who suffers a loss or makes a decision to end a pregnancy should have support services available to them. I was very dismayed to hear that there is an 80% increase in need, and limited funding means that women have got up to a six month waiting list for support. How can this be acceptable in 2021?

I have listened to all of the speakers in today’s debate. It is important that we all understand and are respectful of each other’s views. I was brought up a Roman Catholic and my father was the deputy head of a Roman Catholic school. I had that one-sided view of the right to life. However, as a woman and having been in education for 20 years, I have seen at first hand the pain that girls and women have had to go through. That is why those services are so important. As my hon. Friend the Member for Pontypridd outlined at the start, this is not a debate about the mechanics of devolution; it is a debate about the rights and the duty of this Parliament to uphold the rights of citizens across the United Kingdom. The law is clear: we need to get on with delivering those services.

The hon. Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) and the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) talked about the views of the people in Northern Ireland. I want to draw their attention to an Amnesty International poll, done by an independent research company in 2020, which

“demonstrates an overwhelming demand for change to Northern Ireland’s draconian abortion laws.”

It is important that we are fair, just and transparent about the data that is out there on the views of people in Northern Ireland.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Pontypridd explained in her excellent speech, the changes to abortion laws extended abortion rights to the women of Northern Ireland. They were made in line with the recommendations of the UN Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women and affording women in Northern Ireland those rights was about aligning abortion policy across the United Kingdom. It was a key moment for us, but little has changed since March 2020 for women in Northern Ireland. This is the title of the debate, and the lack of the commissioning of abortion services in Northern Ireland is having a direct impact on women.

The debate is about the rights of women in Northern Ireland and their right to access basic reproductive healthcare without needless barriers. It is about their right to clear, accurate and impartial advice and guidance about their healthcare choices. There is a worrying lack of impartial guidance, if any guidance at all, on a woman’s right to choice when she finds out she is pregnant. The GP should be women’s first port of call and they do not always get the advice they need there. When women turn to the internet and google abortion services in Northern Ireland, they are led to services that put in delaying tactics, making it impossible for them to terminate their pregnancy if they wish to. It also forces more and more women to purchase abortion pills online. We should not be in that situation. Fortunately, those women are not living in fear of prosecution now when they use that service.

[Ian Paisley]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Tonia Antoniazzi]

Unfortunately, I need the time.

The lack of commissioning means that Informing Choices NI has had to withdraw its central access point and BPAS has had to come in to support it as well. Women have a right to have high-quality access services as early as possible and as late as necessary and those rights are currently denied to women because of the inaction of the Northern Ireland Executive, the Department of Health in Northern Ireland and the Secretary of State. It has been nearly two years since those essential services should have been made routinely available in Northern Ireland, but as colleagues have said, the reality for many women is that the change in legislation might as well not have happened.

The lack of funding or a commissioning framework has led to piecemeal service provision, with women’s access dictated by their postcode. Women in the Western Health and Social Care Trust area have had not access to services in nine months and they cannot go to another trust to access services, having to pay nearly €500 privately to go to Ireland or to England and access pills online if it is not too late. What should be a service for all becomes a service for a lucky few: those who can take a hit to their income, take a day off work or travel the hours to access healthcare. That is not fair. The impact of covid has also been felt in service provision and in the travel restrictions.

The reality for women in Northern Ireland is that access to basic healthcare rights is in no way guaranteed. Will the Minister and the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland meet me to discuss an immediate way in which the Government can address the current crisis for women in Northern Ireland? What additional measures will the Executive put in place, especially in light of the new covid variant omicron, to ensure that the provision will be extended and maintained into the new year?

I look forward to hearing what the Minister has to say, because this is a very important issue for women and girls in Northern Ireland.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Maria Caulfield)]

I am grateful to the hon. Member for Pontypridd (Alex Davies-Jones) for securing the debate. The Northern Ireland Office Ministers regret that they are unable to be here today, but I am sure they welcome the opportunity to have this debate and hear the wide-ranging views on abortion in Northern Ireland. It is an extremely emotive and sensitive subject and it is important that we have that debate in this place.

It is now more than two years since the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019 was passed, where Parliament stepped in and decided that women in Northern Ireland should have access to the same healthcare rights as women in England, Scotland and Wales. Even though the law was changed two years ago, it is true that services have not been commissioned in full.

The Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act placed a duty on the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland to ensure that abortion services which meet the recommendations are put in place and implemented. He has a legal duty to uphold that. As we have heard today, it is true that women have to access abortion in the rest of Great Britain, even though early medical abortion is available in four of the five trusts in Northern Ireland and BPAS has stepped in to provide an interim referral service for women and girls on a temporary basis.

Women and girls who require surgical abortions and post-10 week abortions still have to travel to Britain. The only way for the legal obligations to be met is through local commissioning. The Secretary of State has been clear with the Northern Ireland Department of Health and the Northern Ireland Executive about the commissioning of abortion services that are consistent with the regulations passed in 2019. Despite continuous engagement by the Secretary of State, he remains frustrated that progress is not being made.

As a result of the ongoing delay in commissioning services specifically by the Department of Health and the Northern Ireland Executive, Members will be aware that in July this year, the Secretary of State issued a direction to the Northern Ireland Department of Health, the Minister of Health, and the Health and Social Care Board to commission and make abortion services available by no later than 31 March 2022.

[Ian Paisley]

I thank the Minister for giving way because that point is absolutely vital. By the Secretary of State recommending to the Minister in Northern Ireland that he commission these services, is that not an acceptance that these services are devolved matters? Conversely, matters that are reserved, such as the protocol, can be debated here—and posed and changed here—if that is the Government’s position. If the Government’s position is that this matter is devolved, it should remain devolved.

[Maria Caulfield]

I thank the hon. Member. I was going to come on to the point he raised in his remarks, but will touch on it now, if I may. Health is a devolved matter and that is very much recognised. It was frustrating. It was a free vote, and he knows how I voted and I would do the same today. However, at the time, there was no functioning Assembly. This Parliament had to make decisions, not just on this issue, but other issues such as budgetary matters. As a member of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee at the time, I remember making the case to MLAs that this was why it was so important to get the Assembly up and running, because decisions were made in this place that did not reflect and respect devolution. Decisions were having to be made in this place on devolved matters.