Energy Bill [Lords]

Ian Paisley Excerpts

Report stage
Tuesday 5th September 2023 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Bowie]

I am delighted to rise today to bring before the House our landmark Energy Bill for its consideration. This world-leading, historic Bill—a Conservative Bill—will deliver for this country cleaner, cheaper and more secure energy. It will level up this country, while contributing to levelling down bills for the British people. It will unleash new technology, liberate private investment in clean technologies, modernise and future-proof our energy network, and deliver for this country and for future generations.

The United Kingdom already has a great story to tell on reducing our carbon emissions. We have reduced our emissions faster than any other G7 nation. We were the first European nation to legislate for net zero. We have the first oil and gas basin dedicated to going net zero and the first, second, third and fourth-largest offshore wind farms in the world operating and generating power off the coast of Great Britain right now. We have eliminated our reliance on coal. We have grown to more than 40% of energy being generated by renewables. We have announced further investment in carbon capture, usage and storage, and we are pressing ahead with Great British Nuclear, which I launched two months ago with an exciting programme for small modular reactors. We are on track to deliver 24 GW of nuclear power on the grid by 2025.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

Can the Minister confirm that at the weekend, agreements were made that have removed Northern Ireland from benefiting from the renewable liquid fuel agreements? Is that the case, and if so, why?

[Andrew Bowie]

If the hon. Gentleman will have patience, I will come to the renewable liquid heating fuel amendments later in my speech, where I am happy to direct any questions to which he is seeking answers.

We have done all the things I have mentioned while growing our economy. We have cut our emissions by 40% while growing our economy by 60%. It is an inherently Conservative value—a value close to the hearts of all on the Government Benches—to pass on what we inherit in a better state to the next generation. That includes the state of our environment and our climate. There is also no more Conservative value than to ensure the security of our nation and its people, and that includes our energy supply.

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[Andrew Bowie]

I am determined to work very hard to ensure that this Government will not be gone in 12 months. However, we are taking the powers now to ensure support for the use of these fuels in heat in future, if needed. I should make clear that we are starting the consultation within the next 12 months, not in 12 months. It will be within the next year.

[Ian Paisley]

There is a vast rural housing network in Northern Ireland of so many households, and there is overreliance on heating oil. What is the arrangement for using renewable liquid fuels in Northern Ireland?

[Andrew Bowie]

Once again, I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. I was just about to answer his original question: I can confirm that officials from the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero in London have been in discussion with Northern Ireland officials, who are broadly content with the Government’s approach on this issue. However, conversations will continue with Northern Ireland officials on what we can do to support renewable liquid heating fuels in Northern Ireland. Once again, as on the other issues I have specified, I would be delighted to meet the hon. Gentleman and colleagues from across Northern Ireland to discuss how this Government can ensure that the support delivered in Great Britain can be replicated in Northern Ireland.

I turn back to my comments on renewable liquid heating fuels. With regard to amendment 8, the powers in clause 142 relate only to the planned clean heat market mechanism, for which the Government’s focus is on supporting the development of the market for electric heat pumps. We do not believe that expanding the power set out here is necessary to allow for boilers burning renewable liquid fuels to be installed or used. In the light of those steps, I hope my right hon. Friend the Member for Camborne and Redruth is reassured by the Government’s action and will feel able not to press the amendment.

I turn to Government new clauses 52 and 169 and new clause 35 on sustainable aviation fuel. I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling) for his constructive engagement with me and colleagues at the Department for Transport. This Government are committed to ensuring that the UK sustainable aviation fuel programme is one of the most comprehensive in the world. That is why in the Bill we are committing to publish a consultation on the options for designing and implementing a revenue certainty scheme within six months of it being passed.

We will also update Parliament within 18 months on the development of a sustainable aviation fuel revenue certainty scheme. As the Secretary of State for Transport, my right hon. Friend the Member for Forest of Dean (Mr Harper), set out in a written ministerial statement yesterday, that builds on our commitment to deliver a revenue certainty scheme for domestic sustainable aviation fuel production by the end of 2026. The intention is that the scheme will be industry-funded. Alongside that, we have published a plan for delivering the scheme, which contains a timeline of key milestones such as a public consultation on options, an associated Government response, design phases, and delivery and legislative steps.

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[Richard Drax (South Dorset) (Con)]

In the short time I have, may I introduce a slight note of caution? I was impressed by the almost Tiggerish performance by the Minister—he is very persuasive on this Bill—but what concerns me is what is guiding Government policy and, dare I say it, the policy of many in this House. The Climate Change Act 2008, and the further legislation in 2019 when our Government increased the cut in carbon emissions to 100% by 2050, introduced targets that in my humble opinion were not really thought through. The practical consequences have not been thought through, and they are becoming more and more evident today as we discuss these difficult issues.

Do not let me mislead people in the House. I, like everyone here, want to break away from fossil fuel and have cleaner air. The green revolution is coming, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingswood (Chris Skidmore) said, but we have to be careful not to bring it in so quickly that it is not available, it is not affordable and, when the sun does not shine and the wind does not blow, it does not work. Strategically, we are an island nation and we have to keep the lights on. Our duty as MPs is to say to our constituents, “I can guarantee that when you go to your light switch or to make a cup of tea or cook a meal, the power will be there to do all that, and to drive your car from A to B.”

At the moment there is a great drive for electric cars, but they are expensive and the plug-in points and investment are nowhere near ready for that revolution. There are also many questions about where the batteries and the resources for them will come from. We have already heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Rutland and Melton (Alicia Kearns) about the slave labour that applies to many parts of the battery industry.

We are now on our fourth carbon budget—I do not know whether people know that—running from 2023 to 2027, and the Government are being guided by that. The Climate Change Committee advises on the carbon budget, and the Government can be legally challenged once it is in place. The budget is set for five years, so the question now is: what about our democracy? In my humble opinion, we are debating these crucial issues for probably the first time. It was pushed through in 2008 and 2018, and we are now facing the consequences of those decisions. If we have to fall back on the courts to decide on the policies we make in this place, we can recall the anxiety and grief that that caused on the Brexit issue. In my view, that is completely unacceptable.

There are three consequences: in 18 months’ time, no new house will be fitted with a gas boiler; in seven years’ time, petrol cars will be illegal; and in 12 years’ time, people will not be able to replace their boiler like for like.

[Ian Paisley]

Is it not the case that, after car batteries expire, most of them end up in landfill? This is another significant problem we need to take stock of when these issues are considered.

[Richard Drax]

It is. I have read many articles, not least by Mr Bean who, as we know, is a car expert. He wrote a very good article in The Guardian about why we are not quite ready for battery cars. If my wife or daughter is travelling from A to B, I want her to get there safely, as she can in a petrol or diesel car, without having to wait in a petrol section for some minutes to recharge her car, which then takes half an hour or so.

Our actions have consequences, and I urge the Government to think this through very carefully. We cannot impoverish our country to meet what I would call, in some cases, an almost cultish policy to turn this country into something we cannot afford. When we can afford it, and when it works, that is when we should adopt all these policies. I urge caution as the Government go forward.

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[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

We are going to a three-minute limit immediately. The wind-ups will start at 5.50 pm and then there will be multiple votes from 6 pm onwards. I am afraid some people may not get in.

[Ian Paisley]

Thank you for calling me in this debate, Mr Deputy Speaker. It has not been all jolly hockey sticks, despite the fact that this Bill has taken up quite a considerable amount of the House’s time over the last number of years and Sessions.

Northern Ireland has more than 60%, maybe approaching 70%, of its houses heated by solid fuel. As a representative of a constituency with a vast rural section that relies on coal and heating oil, I cannot put my name to something that will say to my constituents, “I don’t know what this is going to cost you, but this decision will actually inflict a higher cost on you when there is a suitable and available product there that you can use to heat your home or to drive your car.” That presses heavily on me, and it has pressed heavily, I notice, on some other Members across the House, because there are significant cost implications in going down the proposed route.

Northern Ireland is not behind in making change. It is actually front and centre in the hydrogen revolution. It has been making hydrogen products and will be part of the hydrogen hub and the most significant hydrogen manufacturer in the entire island of Ireland. I listened carefully to the points made from the Government Front Bench about the hydro levy, and it will be interesting to see how that follows through.

I was delighted by the comments made by the right hon. Member for Camborne and Redruth (George Eustice). I know he was not trying to hang anyone out to dry today, but it was important that we got from the Minister a clear indication of what is happening, not just in Northern Ireland, with regard to liquid renewables. It is important that the Government must support a variety of heating technologies to give the UK the best chance of hitting the 2050 carbon reduction target, if that is what they wish to do. They must reflect the diverse types of houses that people live in across the entirety of the United Kingdom and do something that is fundamentally fair to people. We cannot inflict this massive cost on people when we have an overreliance on solid fuels, especially in a country such as mine.

We heard some comments from the right hon. Member for Wokingham (John Redwood) on the issue of battery disposal. It concerns me considerably that whenever a battery car has finished its life cycle, the battery largely ends up in landfill. What benefit is that, when there are other technologies out there being explored, utilised and developed that could give us a much better and more user-friendly experience?

A ban on new replacement fossil fuel appliances in homes from 2026 will put a substantial cost on people. I also agree thoroughly with the points made about the disruption to many people and about heat pumps. This Bill needs to have even more thought given to it.

[Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con)]

In my point of order earlier I said that this was a 328-page Bill. That was what it was when it came from the House of Lords; it is now a 427-page Bill, which we are expected to debate in detail in three hours, on a day when we had two relatively lightweight statements. That really seems to me not the proper way to have scrutiny in this House. It does not allow this House to do its proper job of looking at the detail of legislation—it is as if we had abdicated it entirely to their lordships.

I have supported my hon. Friend the Member for South Thanet (Craig Mackinlay) in a number of amendments, every single one of which has basically the same aim: to ameliorate the burden this Bill will place on all our constituents. Throughout the Bill, we are creating cost, regulation, penalties and obligations. New clause 42 is there to say that the lowest possible cost should be at the forefront of the mind of the Government in everything that they do, irrespective of how the energy is generated. If that means fossil fuels, let it be fossil fuels. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (John Redwood) said, we need to keep people with us, and we risk losing them if we put undue burdens on them.