Outsourcing: Government Departments

Debate between Ian Lavery and Jeremy Wright

Wednesday 29th January 2025 Westminster Hall

[Ian Lavery (Blyth and Ashington) (Lab)]

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough and Thornaby East (Andy McDonald) for bringing this timely debate to the Chamber. As ever, it is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Jeremy.

I want to dispel some myths in the few minutes that I have got. I want us to wake up and smell the coffee, because this is not “outsourcing”. What is outsourcing? It is privatisation. One hon. Member said it is privatisation by the back door, but it is not; it is just privatisation. We have got to get to grips with how privatisation in this country is getting out of control. Who benefits and who does not benefit? The reality is that the companies are making fortunes and the workers are struggling to make ends meet.

There are some private companies that are actually providing food banks in their places of work for the people they employ. How obscene is that? It is not about socialism or about even left-wing ideology; it is about decency and respect. It is about ambition and giving people a fair deal. That is what we should be about in a prosperous country like the one we live in. Who suffers under privatisation? I was one of the people who worked in a nationalised industry that was privatised over a period of time, so I have got experience of this. Who suffers? It is the workers.

It has been mentioned: reduction in pay, sacking of the labour force, lack of trade union recognition—even trying to fight back—nae sick pay, nae holiday pay. It is absolutely absurd. It served them! We need to be saying what it really is, and the Government Departments are ridden with individuals who are working under the most horrendous of conditions. I pay tribute to the many workers who have worked tirelessly. Many of those in privatised companies are claiming universal credit. The company directors are trousering fortunes, while the workers are losing out on the rights that I have just mentioned. It is horrendous. Some of them cannot make ends meet. Many of them are going to work when they really should not be there, because of sickness, for example. It is just wholly unacceptable.

We have got to get to grips with this privatisation. We have got no other option. We need to protect people in this country from the abuses and the exploitation by privateers, who are making fortunes at the cost of those in the industry. I urge my hon. Friend the Minister to listen to what my hon. Friend the Member for Normanton and Hemsworth (Jon Trickett) said about the legal presumption of in-house employment, because the reality is that we cannot control what we do not own.

[Sir Jeremy Wright (in the Chair)]

I thank all hon. Members who have spoken for their restraint. It has allowed me to get one more hon. Member in, but I ask her to please bring her remarks to a close at 10.30 am.

Prisons

Debate between Ian Lavery and Jeremy Wright

Wednesday 18th December 2013 Ministerial Corrections

[Ian Lavery]

To ask the Secretary of State for Justice what capital expenditure projects his Department commissioned at (a) HMP Blundeston, (b) HMP Dorchester, (c) HMP Northallerton and (d) HMP Reading in each of the last five years; what the cost of each such project was; and if he will make a statement.

[Official Report, 8 October 2013, Vol. 568, c. 75-6W.]

Letter of correction from Jeremy Wright:

An error has been identified in the written answer given to the hon. Member for Wansbeck (Ian Lavery) on 8 October 2013.

The full answer given was as follows:

[Jeremy Wright]

The following table shows the centrally-funded capital expenditure projects commissioned at HMP Blundeston, HMP/YOI Dorchester, HMP/YOI Northallerton and HMP/YOI Reading in each of the last five years and their cost. As at 6 September 2013 there have been no projects in those prisons in 2013/14. The total projected maintenance requirements for the four prisons over the next five years would have amounted to £17 million.

The Department needs to modernise the estate to provide prison capacity at much lower cost and in the right places to deliver our ambition of reducing re-offending. That is why MOJ are replacing older accommodation that is expensive to run with newer, cheaper and more efficient accommodation that will provide better value for money.