Dairy Industry

Debate between Ian Lavery and Guto Bebb

Wednesday 5th November 2014 Westminster Hall

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

I, too, congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire (Simon Hart) on securing the debate. It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen). Most of my prepared speech will be thrown out the window in view of the change in the time limit, but most of the points have already been made, not least by the two Carmarthenshire Members, who have highlighted many of the issues facing the farming industry in Wales. The impact of the decline of the dairy industry is not only on farming communities and rural communities. In my part of north Wales, the fact that the average herd has gone from 40 to 125 cows means that there are fewer family farms, and there has been a direct impact on the Welsh language and Welsh communities as a result, so the issue is not just economic but cultural in our part of Wales.

I want to pick up the point about a price of 99p for 4 pints of milk. I was once asked on the radio what the price of milk was, and I responded by saying that it was possible to buy 4 pints of milk for £1 in a supermarket. I thought that I had done well in answering that question. Most politicians fail to get the answer right on the price of milk, but obviously, as a Member of Parliament for an agricultural area, I was then condemned by the two farming unions for buying my milk in a supermarket.

It is important that we make points such as the fact that milk and bread, for example, have for a long time been loss leaders. The key point is that the loss should be borne by the supermarkets. If they want to have a price war over the price of milk, they should bear the loss.

[Ian Lavery]

Is it not time that we looked at regulating supermarkets to protect the farmers and suppliers?

[Guto Bebb]

That is a fair point, but it should be pointed out that there are some supply chain initiatives that we should see as moves in the right direction. For example, Tesco, which is not a company associated with good practice most of the time, has an interesting supply chain for dairy farmers that takes into account the cost of production and the need to create a profit, but it represents only 5% of UK dairy farmers. However, it is an example of what can be done. I understand that another supermarket is going down that road, but I will not name another supermarket just in case people think that I am in the pocket of the supermarkets.

I want to make some key points in relation to the situation in Wales. We need to look at the long-term opportunities as well. The impact of the sanctions on Russia, for example, shows that we are working in a global market. I would like my hon. Friend the Minister to give me some assurances that the potential for a free trade agreement across the Atlantic will be an opportunity for Welsh farmers and British farmers to exploit. It is important to remember that we have a market in north America that could be identified as a possibility for Welsh farmers, but we need to have some progress on the transatlantic trade and investment partnership. When markets are closed to us, there is a direct impact on our communities.

Another issue that I want to touch on is the movement of funding from pillar one to pillar two. The situation in England is that 12% of the money from pillar one is moved to pillar two; in Wales, it is a more draconian 15%. What is key, if that money is moved to pillar two, is what can be done with that funding to encourage diversification and new opportunities for Welsh food producers. I am following the speech from the hon. Member for Ynys Môn, and Ynys Môn has done a fantastic job of promoting local produce. That example could be followed and, indeed, is being followed in other parts of Wales.

I will give one small example from my constituency. By utilising European money in a creative manner, we have created in my constituency the Welsh food centre in Bodnant. Among other things, it has bought the entire milk production of Gerallt Jones, of Tal-y-Cafn Uchaf farm, and created new markets by creating high-premium cheese, butter and cream products. We could take such opportunities with the money going to pillar two.

I will end my speech at this point in order to ensure that someone else can speak.

Detention of Palestinian Children (West Bank)

Debate between Ian Lavery and Guto Bebb

Tuesday 7th December 2010 Westminster Hall

[Guto Bebb]

Labour Members seem to treat Israel as a special case. In effect, they are saying that even if the children in question are guilty—the hon. Gentleman’s figures show that 38% were charged with issues unrelated to stone-throwing—Israel has no right to self-defence. If young people from the Palestinian territories are being used by terrorist organisations to attack the state of Israel, should the hon. Gentleman not condemn that, and be as keen to do so as he is to condemn the state of Israel?

[Ian Lavery]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. The simple answer is that even if children are 100% guilty, there is no justification whatever for treating them in the way they are being tret. I have seen that with my own eyes, but I will move on.

The people we are talking about are subject to all sorts of abuse, including sleep deprivation, beatings, slappings, denial of food and water, position abuse, exposure to extreme heat and cold, and denial of access to toilets and washing facilities. Some 81% of those children—81% of the Palestinian children detained—confessed during interrogation, and 32% of those confessions were, as my hon. Friends said, written in Hebrew, so how are they supposed to understand anything? It is a disgrace, and a deliberate attempt to intimidate Palestinian children in any way, shape or form.

How can that be in the best interests of children? If a child pleads guilty, they may be penalised for around three and a half months, and 81%—the vast majority—do plead guilty. They do so because if they plead not guilty it will probably be one or two months before their case is even heard in court, and the full duration of the process may take up to a year. It is common sense that if the penalty is three and a half months for pleading guilty as opposed to in excess of a year for pleading not guilty, they will plead guilty. Again, that is intimidation of the highest order. The problem following prosecution is that the children, and members of their families, have a security record, so they cannot enter Israel or parts of Jerusalem.

I shall touch briefly on some cases of mistreatment of children. The details come from the Defence for Children International. Palestinian children have been used as human shields and their lives have been put at risk. In August, a 13-year-old was reportedly used as a human shield near Nablus. In October, the Israeli military authorities opened an investigation into the use of a 16-year-old girl as a shield. In November, two Israeli soldiers who used a nine-year-old Palestinian boy as a human shield received suspended sentences and were demoted after being convicted of “inappropriate conduct”. The unnamed soldiers ordered Majeh Rabah from the Tel Al-Hawa neighbourhood in Gaza city to check bags for explosives in January 2009 towards the end of the Israeli three-week offensive.

Will the Minister confirm that no one, let alone a nine-year-old child, should be used as a human shield? Does he agree that that is a disgrace, and a clear violation of international law? Has he made the strongest representations about the failure to hold those soldiers to account? We heard of disturbing new cases of tasers being used on children during interrogation. Will the Minister look into that as a matter of urgency?

Young people were threatened with electric shocks, and the threat alone convinced many of them to plead guilty to charges. But electric shocks are not just threatened; they are used in interrogation. We must remember that those children are on their own, have not seen their parents, and are not legally represented, yet they are blindfolded, with shackled arms and feet, and threatened with electric shocks. We heard reports from DCI that some children have had electrodes attached to their genitals with the threat of electric shocks. That is absolutely horrendous, and enough to break any reasonable person’s heart.

We heard of a child being held in solitary confinement for 65 days at Al Jalameh. In east Jerusalem there have been an increased number of cases of abuse of children following clashes near the illegal Israeli settlements at Silwan, which we visited only a few days ago. Some 380 settlers had moved into 18 homes in that overcrowded Palestinian district of 13,500 people, leading to the demolition of Palestinian homes. In 2010, more than 1,200 criminal cases had been opened against children from occupied east Jerusalem alleging involvement in stone-throwing incidents. The youngest boy to be mistreated was only seven years old.

[Mr Roger Gale in the Chair]

There are many other problems in Jerusalem. A case lasting two years involved an innocent child. In another case, eight Palestinian teenagers were held for two years on testimony from soldiers that was subsequently overturned. There have been serious breaches of the fourth Geneva convention, and of the UN convention against torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, and the UN convention on the rights of the child, article 3 of which clearly states:

“In all actions concerning children…the best interests of the child shall be a primary consideration.”

That article is blatantly and openly violated. Those are not recent violations; they have happened consistently over 43 years of military occupation.

At some stage, we as politicians and members of the public must ask what we can do to ensure that Israel stops breaching and violating those articles, international laws and conventions. Over the past few days, UK representatives at the United Nations have agreed at committee level that such violations have taken place. Who are those representatives? What is their mandate? What are we doing about it? Is it for the UK Government to tell representatives on UN committees that action must be taken? We cannot continue to ignore such violations and the systematic abuse of children.

This is a cross-party matter; I am not here spoiling for a fight with the Government, and I hope that we can broadly agree that this matter is about children being abused at an international level. We have a duty as parents, fathers and decent people to protect children no matter what the circumstances, and regardless of their colour or creed, whether they are black or white, rich or poor, or which country they come from. I hope that the Minister will agree and explain to the House what we can do together in the simple name of moral humanity.