EU: Withdrawal and Future Relationship (Motions)

Debate between Hywel Williams and John Bercow

Monday 1st April 2019 Commons Chamber

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

My remarks will be brief. I will explain why Plaid Cymru will be supporting only one option, and two procedures, as a potential solution to the Brexit deadlock. The Prime Minister insists on bringing forward the same votes on her botched deal, only for the House to reject it again, as has happened twice already. We believe it is essential to hold a people’s vote on the final deal. Ultimately, it must be a question of deciding between the arrangements that we know, and that have worked well, although not perfectly, for several decades, and what those who advocate change can devise. It is clear that there is no agreement on what that alternative might be, so what was started by a vote of the people must, I think, be ended by a vote of the people. We will be supporting the motion in the name of the hon. Member for Hove (Peter Kyle) tonight.

The best option for Wales is undoubtedly to remain within the European Union. As our economy is heavily dependent on the ability to export tariff-free to the European Union, leaving the Union would be damaging for the Welsh economy. It is our responsibility as Plaid Cymru, the party of Wales, to mitigate that as much as possible. Therefore, we will also be supporting the motion in the name of the hon. Member for Grantham and Stamford (Nick Boles), which would continue to ensure membership of the single market and a form of customs union, protecting jobs, protecting workers rights and protecting our economy. It is indeed strikingly similar to the proposals entitled “Securing Wales’ Future” that we brought forward some two years ago and which were largely the fine work of our late friend Steffan Lewis AM, whose untimely death this year deprived us of a great future prospect for our politics. If this is the final position adopted, it is imperative that this too is put to a people’s vote.

It is essential that we have a means of protection against crashing out of the European Union with no deal at all. The first step to protect against this must be a meaningful extension of article 50. This has to be obtained from the European Union, but were it to be refused—although I think that is unlikely—it must be up to this House to choose between a no-deal Brexit, which we have already rejected, and revoking article 50 and stopping this careering train in its tracks. Therefore, we will be supporting motion (G) in the name of my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Edinburgh South West (Joanna Cherry).

[Mr Speaker]

Last speech at four minutes—I call Greg Hands.

Speaker’s Statement

Debate between Hywel Williams and John Bercow

Monday 18th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

The Clerk of the House has confirmed my own understanding, which is that the House is the custodian of its own Standing Orders. The Standing Orders are a matter for the House, and they can be changed. That has happened before, and it could conceivably happen again. So the answer to the central inquiry is yes.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Is there any definition, in terms of precedent, of the meaning of the term “substantial change”? If there is not, can you confirm that that does not preclude you from making a novel decision?

[Mr Speaker]

I am sorry if this disappoints the hon. Gentleman, but it is context-specific, and it is a judgment for the Chair. The Chair seeks to make a judgment on the basis of what will be in the interests of the House. I do not think that I can say fairer than that, or say anything different. I hope that that is useful to colleagues.

Points of Order

Debate between Hywel Williams and John Bercow

Wednesday 13th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. This week, 12 Catalan leaders go on trial in Spain’s Supreme Court on charges of rebellion and sedition. If found guilty, they face sentences of up to 25 years in jail. Their supposed crime was organising a democratic referendum on Catalan independence in October 2017. One of their number was the President or Speaker of the Catalan Parliament, Carme Forcadell, whom you graciously welcomed to our House when she visited us as a free woman. Her alleged crime was allowing a debate on Catalan independence in the democratically elected Catalan Parliament.

Mr Speaker, I know that you cannot comment directly on these matters and I wish in no way to put you in a difficult position, but will you confirm that it would be in order for you to allow a debate on Welsh independence in this democratically elected House and for me to take part, and that neither you nor I would be likely to face arrest or long-term imprisonment for so doing?

[Mr Speaker]

I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his courtesy in giving me notice of his intention to raise his point of order. Moreover, I am grateful for its substance, both because he raises an important point, to which I shall respond, and because it gives me the opportunity to say that I well remember welcoming Carme Forcadell when she came to this place—it was a privilege to do so.

On the substance of the matter, it is of course entirely orderly for there to be a debate in this House on Welsh independence. Members enjoy immunity for the words they utter in this Chamber and can come to no grief as a result of their freedom of expression. Moreover, I note in passing that as Speaker, I too enjoy immunity for the manner in which I preside over debates. Other people will fashion, and in many cases have done so, for better or for worse, their own arrangements. While ours are by no means incapable of improvement, and there are many people in this House who believe that there is much by way of parliamentary reform that can be accomplished, I think that on the matter that the hon. Gentleman has raised and the importance of democratic principle, we are very content with our arrangements. They could perhaps, in important respects, be imitated by others who proclaim a commitment to democracy. I hope that that is helpful to the hon. Gentleman.

Points of Order

Debate between Hywel Williams and John Bercow

Monday 27th February 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

As I have just been advised, and as I would have been inclined in any case to say, in this case the answer is no, because there has been no imputation of dishonour against a particular individual. The requirement to notify applies where a personal attack is intended to be directed. Where there is a more generalised complaint, no such prior notification is required. That would have been my view, but in any case, thanks to a speedy swivelling around by the Clerk of the House, I am fortified in my conviction by his advice, which is based on his 40 years’ experience in this place. Nevertheless, I thank the hon. Gentleman for raising his legitimate concern.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. My constituent Shiromini Satkunarajah is due to be expelled from the UK tomorrow and sent to Sri Lanka, from where she and her family, who are Tamils, fled here from the war when she was just 12 years old. In three months, Shiromini could complete here degree in electrical engineering at Bangor University and would be expected to get a first. Her head of school describes her as “exceptionally able and diligent”. There is a worldwide shortage of graduates in her subject. Despite following the immigration regulations meticulously, she was called to Caernarfon police station last week, arrested, detained in a cell for three days and then transferred to Yarl’s Wood. I have contacted the Immigration Minister repeatedly to ask him to exercise discretion in her case, which has widespread support among the public—30,000 people signed a petition this weekend alone—and from Members of the House, but so far he has not replied. She is due to leave tomorrow. What advice can you give me, Mr Speaker, so that I, as a Back Bencher, can hold the Government to account on this scandalous case, and do so in good time?

[Mr Speaker]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for notice of his point of order. He has spoken with his customary eloquence in support of his constituent. He will understand that this is not a point of order for the Chair, but his remarks on this serious and pressing matter will have been heard—and noted, I hope—on the Treasury Bench. My advice is that he seek today to contact the Immigration Minister—from memory, the hon. Member for Scarborough and Whitby (Mr Goodwill)—personally.

Point of Order

Debate between Hywel Williams and John Bercow

Monday 10th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Last Thursday on “Question Time”, in an exchange with Leanne Wood, the leader of Plaid Cymru, the Secretary of State for Wales said, first, that

“when there’s… migration into Welsh-speaking communities…your members have taken direct action in the past”;

secondly, that there are

“communities in Wales where there are nationalist activists who take direct action against people who come in”;

and thirdly:

“It wasn’t so long ago that some of the cottages were being burned down”.

Despite many requests to the Secretary of State, he has failed to provide any evidence for this. Neither has he withdrawn his accusations or apologised.

People throughout Wales are outraged at these slurs on their communities, but for us today the Secretary of State’s accusations relate to Plaid Cymru Members. I am a Plaid Cymru Member. Is he accusing me? Or is he accusing my hon. Friend the Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards) or my hon. Friend the Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Liz Saville Roberts), English by birth and bought up in Eltham in London? Bizarrely, he might even be accusing his own Under-Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb), who previously was a prominent and vocal member of Plaid Cymru. Mr Speaker, what action can be taken in respect of those who, outside this Chamber, baselessly bring Members of this House into disrepute?

[Mr Speaker]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for notice of his point of order. However, the “Question Time” to which he refers is on the BBC, not in the House of Commons. While my responsibility extends to the latter, it does not do so in respect of the former, as I dare say he knows very well. None the less, his views are on the record. I do not treat what he has said in any way with levity or disinterest, but as a matter of fact it does not fall within the remit of the Chair to handle. We shall have to leave it there for now. I thank the hon. Gentleman for registering his views on the record.

Wales Bill

Debate between Hywel Williams and John Bercow

Tuesday 5th July 2016 Commons Chamber

[Hywel Williams]

I beg to move amendment 32, page 10, line 3, leave out subsections (5) and (6).

The amendment removes the requirements on the face of the Bill for the National Assembly for Wales’ Standing Orders to include requirements for the publication of a statement in Welsh and English.

[Mr Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Clauses 8 to 11 stand part.

Amendment 33, in clause 12, page 12, line 24, at end insert—

“(a) for a sum paid out of the Welsh Consolidated Fund not to be applied for any purpose other than that for which it was charged or (as the case may be) paid out”.

The amendment sets out that Welsh legislation must provide that the Assembly has to authorise any drawing from the Consolidated Fund and that such funds can only be utilised for the purposes for which they were authorised.

Clauses 12 to 14 stand part.

Amendment 38, in clause 15, page 14, line 3, leave out “translation of references” and insert “consequential provision”.

The amendment replaces “translation of references” with “consequential provision”, to reflect the overall effect of Clause 15.

Amendment 39, page 14, line 5, at end insert—

“( ) Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru,”.

The amendment clarifies that any references in legislation, instruments and documents to “Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru” is also to be read as a reference to the new name, in Welsh.

Amendment 40, page 14, line 6, at end insert—

“( ) Comisiwn Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru,”.

The amendment clarifies that any references in legislation, instruments and documents to “Comisiwn Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru” is also to be read as a reference to the new name, in Welsh.

Amendment 41, page 14, line 7, at end insert—

“( ) Deddfau Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, or”.

The amendment clarifies that any references in legislation, instruments and documents to “Deddfau Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru” is also to be read as a reference to the new name, in Welsh.

Amendment 42, page 14, line 11, after “to”, insert “Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru,”.

The amendment provides that if the Assembly changes its name then any reference in legislation, instruments and documents to the “Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru” is to be read as a reference to the new name.

Amendment 43, page 14, line 12, after first “Wales,” insert “Comisiwn Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru,”.

The amendment provides that if the Assembly changes its name then any reference in legislation, instruments and documents to the “Comisiwn Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru” is to be read as a reference to the new name.

Amendment 44, page 14, line 12, after “Commission,” insert “, Deddfau Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru”.

The amendment provides that if the Assembly changes its name then any reference in legislation, instruments and documents to “Deddfau Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru” is to be read as a reference to the new name.

Amendment 45, page 14, line 17, after “name”, insert

“in Welsh or English (as the case may be).”

The amendment clarifies that the clause applies to any new names listed in the clause be they in English or Welsh.

Clauses 15 and 16 stand part.

Amendment 14, in clause 17, page 15, leave out lines 29 to 31.

This amendment and amendment 15 make provision for the definition of devolved competence in Clause 17 to be applied for the purpose of the amendments made to Clause 19 by amendment 13.

Amendment 15, page 15, line 35, at end insert—

“( ) In this section and section 58B ‘within devolved competence’ and ‘outside devolved competence’ are to be read in accordance with subsections (7) and (8); but for the purposes of section 58AB no account is to be taken of the requirement to consult the appropriate Minister in paragraph 11(2) of Schedule 7B.”

See the explanatory statement for amendment 14.

Clauses 17 and 18 stand part.

Amendment 13, in clause 19, page 17, line 27, at end insert—

“(2) After section 58A of that Act (inserted by section 17(1) of this Act) insert—

‘58B Transfer of functions within devolved competence

(1) Functions conferred on a Minister of the Crown by virtue of any pre-commencement enactment or pre-commencement prerogative instrument, so far as they are exercisable within devolved competence by a Minister of the Crown, are to be exercisable by the Welsh Ministers instead of a Minister of the Crown.

(2) Provision for a Minister of the Crown to exercise a function with the agreement of, or after consultation with, any other Minister of the Crown ceases to have effect in relation to the exercise of the function by a member of the Welsh Government by virtue of subsection (1).

(3) In this section “pre-commencement enactment” means—

(a) an Act passed before or in the same session as this Act and any other enactment made before the passing of this Act;

(b) an enactment made, before the commencement of this section, under such an Act or such other enactment; “pre-commencement prerogative instrument” means a prerogative instrument made before or during the session in which this Act was passed.’”

Clause 19 makes provision about transfer of Ministerial functions. The amendment provides for the transfer of all functions currently exercisable by Ministers of the Crown within devolved competence to the Welsh Ministers.

Clause 19 stand part.

That schedule 3 be the Third schedule to the Bill.

Amendment 16, in clause 20, page 18, line 8, at end insert—

“(ab) section 58B,”.

Clause 20 amends the power in section 58 of the Government of Wales Act 2006 to make provision by Order in Council for the transfer of functions to the Welsh Ministers to authorise provision to be made in respect of “previously transferred functions”. This amendment extends the definition of “previously transferred functions” to include functions transferred by the general transfer proposed by amendment 13.

Clauses 20 and 21 stand part.

New clause 2—Welsh thresholds for income tax—

“(1) Part 4A of the Government Wales Act 2006 is amended as follows.

(2) In section 116A(1)(a) (overview), after ‘of’ insert ‘and thresholds for’.

(3) After section 116D insert—

‘116DA Power to set Welsh thresholds for Welsh taxpayers

(1) The Assembly may by resolution (a “Welsh threshold resolution”) set one or more of the following—

(a) a Welsh threshold for the Welsh basic rate,

(b) a Welsh threshold for the Welsh higher rate,

(c) a Welsh threshold for the Welsh additional rate.

(2) A Welsh threshold resolution applies—

(a) for only one tax year, and

(b) for the whole of that year.

(3) A Welsh threshold resolution—

(a) must specify the tax year for which it applies,

(b) must be made before the start of that tax year, and

(c) must not be made more than 12 months before the start of that year.

(4) If a Welsh threshold resolution is cancelled before the start of the tax year for which it is to apply—

(a) the Income Tax Acts have effect for that year as if the resolution had never been made, and

(b) the resolution may be replaced by another Welsh threshold resolution.

(5) The standing orders must provide that only the First Minister or a Welsh Minister appointed under section 48 may move a motion for a Welsh threshold resolution.’”

This new clause would allow the National Assembly for Wales to determine the income thresholds at which income tax is payable by Welsh taxpayers.

New clause 3—Income tax receipts—

“(1) Section 120 (destination of receipts) of the Government of Wales Act 2006 is amended as follows.

(2) The Comptroller and Auditor General must certify for each tax year that Her Majesty’s Commissioners for Revenue and Customs have transferred the full amount of income tax paid by Welsh taxpayers in that tax year into the Welsh Consolidated Fund.”

This new clause would require the receipts from income tax paid by Welsh taxpayers to be paid into the Welsh Consolidated Fund.

[Hywel Williams]

I rise to speak to amendments 32, 33 and 38 to 45. My hon. Friends will seek to catch your eye later, Sir Alan, to speak on the aspects that concern them. I also wish to speak to clause 18 stand part.

Amendment 32 is a technical amendment. Clause 8 provides that Assembly legislation dealing with certain protected matters—the name of the Assembly, who is entitled to vote at Assembly elections, the voting system and so on—would require a super-majority of the Assembly. It requires the Presiding Officer to decide whether an Assembly Bill relates to a protected matter and to state that decision, and I do not disagree with any of that.

However, the clause then requires that that statement be in both English and Welsh and that the form of that statement be dealt with in the Assembly’s Standing Orders. While we agree that such statements should be made in both languages, amendment 32, which is in my name and those of my hon. Friends, would remove those two provisions. It does that for two reasons. First, including them is at odds with much of the rest of the Bill, which recognises the Assembly as a mature legislator and allows it to determine its own internal arrangements rather than what is required by Westminster. Secondly, both Welsh and English are official languages of the Assembly—as someone rather paradoxically put it, English is a Welsh language in that respect—and both must be treated equally. Therefore, providing that the Presiding Officer’s statement must be made in both languages is unnecessary—nugatory.

Amendment 33 seeks to amend clause 12, which inserts a new section into the Government of Wales Act 2006. This would replace the previous arrangements for financial controls and provide that Welsh legislation should make provision for the matters contained within that section, such as accounts to be prepared of their expenditure and receipts by the First Minister or other Ministers who draw sums from the Welsh consolidated fund. We believe that the new section should include basic safeguards in the form of minimum requirements that Welsh legislation should provide for, and that reflect good governance. Section 124 of the Government of Wales Act 2006 currently provides for authorisation by the Assembly. Amendment 33 proposes that funds should be issued from the Welsh Consolidated Fund only in accordance with legislation or authorisation by the Assembly, and can be utilised only for the purposes for which they were authorised. This simple addition to the Bill would improve accountability and responsibility, and it would reflect the provisions for Scotland—that is, section 65 of the Scotland Act 1998.

Amendments 38 to 45 are technical in nature. They amend clause 15, which provides that if the Assembly changes its name, then any reference in legislation, instruments and documents to the “National Assembly for Wales” is to be read as a reference to the new name. This saves having to change each reference to the “National Assembly for Wales”, of which there may be many thousands. However, the clause neglects the fact that Assembly Acts are prepared bilingually, and so references to the Assembly and the commission will be in Welsh and English. Moreover, it does not address the issue of legislation, instruments and documents that refer to “Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru”. The amendment clarifies that any reference in legislation, instruments and documents to “Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru” is also to be read as a reference to the new name in Welsh.

The same issues arise with regard to any change in the names of the National Assembly for Wales Commission or Acts of the National Assembly for Wales, which are also addressed in the amendment. The heading of the section inserted into the Government of Wales Act 2006 by clause 15 refers to “translation of references”. The amendment would change that to “consequential provision”. That is more appropriate, given the overall effect of clause 15, and avoids confusion between legal translation—that is, consequential provisions—and linguistic translation of references. I look forward to the Minister’s response and hope that he might consider adopting some of these changes on Report.

I now turn briefly to clause 18 stand part. This clause shows the speed of political change. After nearly five years of discussions about Silk and powers for Wales, we are now providing that Wales Acts are relevant to the European Communities Act 1972, although the UK has just voted to leave the EU. Obviously, this provision should remain in the Bill. We are still in the EU, and unpicking EU legislation from our domestic legislation will take many years and will not be easy. There are questions as to how decisions will be taken about which EU legislation remains.

I hope that the UK Government, of whatever stripe, but particularly of a right-wing Conservative complexion, will not take it upon themselves to decide what is, or what is not, relevant to Wales. We have already heard the comments from one Conservative leadership contender at the weekend calling for a “strong Union”, and we suspect that we know what that actually means. We need to know where Wales stands and how these powers will be determined. So-called Henry VIII powers, lying either with the UK Government or with Whitehall bureaucrats, will not be democratically acceptable.

My party, Plaid Cymru, is the official Opposition in Wales and the second largest party after the elections two months ago. The balance of competences review did not consider Wales in particular depth, but, post-Brexit, we must consider the question of which powers should be in Wales’s hands and not those of Westminster. The vote in Wales to leave the EU was not a vote to centralise power in Westminster.

I draw the House’s attention to today’s Assembly debate on a motion standing in the name of our former colleague, Simon Thomas, which states that the Assembly

“believes that following the withdrawal of the UK from the EU, provisions should be made to ensure that all legislation giving effect to EU Directives or Regulations pertaining to areas such as environmental protection, workers' rights, food safety and agriculture are retained in UK and Welsh law unless they are actively repealed by the relevant Parliament.”

The debate will repay close reading.

Whether or not Vote Leave was in a position to make the promises it made, they must be honoured by the Westminster Government because they were the Brexit promises that people voted for. That means additional money for the NHS through the Barnett formula, as well as protecting funding for our farmers and regional and structural funds post-2020.

It is right for clause 18 to remain part of the Bill, as it will be relevant until any official departure from the European Union takes place. However, the clause, like so many others, shows how the Bill has already been overtaken by events and why Wales should have so much more power than it provides. The Bill is far from being a once-and-for-all settlement, and we give notice that we will return to this matter later in this Parliament.

White Paper on the BBC Charter

Debate between Hywel Williams and John Bercow

Wednesday 11th May 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman will not require much encouragement if experience is anything by which to judge.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

S4C provides popular programming in Welsh—in fact, it is as popular as possible—and is largely funded by the BBC. Is the Secretary of State concerned that his proposals as reported widely in Wales are likely to hamper S4C’s ability to fulfil that unique prime function?

Points of Order

Debate between Hywel Williams and John Bercow

Tuesday 19th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her point of order. I did not make the immediate judgment that the Chancellor’s remark was unparliamentary. I think it was intended in a jocular spirit, although, of course, we all have to weigh our words carefully in this place and think of the possible implications of the language chosen. I stand by the judgment I made, but equally she has taken the opportunity to make her own point and to make a wider point about an important public policy issue in the process. I thank her for putting her comments on the record.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. You have certified that the Education (Student Support) (Amendment) Regulations 2015 relate to England only and are subject to double-majority voting. Thousands of English students study at Bangor University and are constituents of mine. Can you advise me on how I might fully represent their views in the Lobbies?

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order and his characteristic courtesy in notifying me in advance of its thrust. He asks how he can represent the interests of his constituents in relation to the education regulations before the House. This gives me the opportunity to explain the situation. Although I have certified the instrument as relating exclusively to England, the prayer to annul it requires a majority both of all Members and of Members representing English constituencies, so he is perfectly entitled to vote on it. The test that the Standing Order sets is that every provision of the instrument relates exclusively to England and is within devolved legislative competence. I am satisfied that the instrument meets that test. In forming my judgment, I am guided by advice from Speaker’s Counsel and from the Public Bill Office. Our exchange is now on the record and will, I hope, be useful to him in such exchanges or communications as take place.

Europe: Renegotiation

Debate between Hywel Williams and John Bercow

Tuesday 10th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am very keen to accommodate colleagues, but progress is leisurely—some might even describe it as lethargic. As I like guessing games and want to encourage Members to think, let me suggest that if they could model their contributions on those of the right hon. Members for Wokingham (John Redwood) and for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart), progress would be altogether speedier.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

I thank the Minister for his statement and for early sight of it. In his statement, he used the phrase “salary to be subsidised by the state.” How will the Government differentiate legally between salaries subsidised by the state for foreigners and tax credits to hand out to UK citizens?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Hywel Williams and John Bercow

Wednesday 17th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I understand the House is in a state of high excitement and anticipation of Prime Minister’s questions, but I am sure that the people of Wales would expect us to treat their concerns seriously. Let us have a bit of order for Mr Hywel Williams.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

7. What discussions he has had on returning control of health policy from the Welsh Government to Westminster.

Water Bill

Debate between Hywel Williams and John Bercow

Monday 6th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[Mr Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

New clause 2—Retail exit—

‘(1) The Secretary of State may by regulations make provision about the transfer of an undertaker’s assets and liabilities associated with its non-household retail business into a separate company.

(2) Regulations under this section are to be made by statutory instrument.

(3) Regulations under subsection (1) may, in particular, make provision for any such transfer to be subject to—

(a) approval by the Secretary of State;

(b) any such safeguards as may be specified in the regulations;

(c) the transferee company holding a licence containing a retail authorisation pursuant to section 17A of the Water Industry Act 1991;

(d) the provision of any information or other such assistance from the relevant undertaker as may be required by the Secretary of State for the purposes of approving the transfer.’.

New clause 11—Duties of undertakers to furnish the Secretary of State with information: annual review—

‘(1) Section 202 of the Water Industry Act 1991 (duties to undertakers to furnish the Secretary of State with information) is amended as follows.

(2) After subsection (1A) there is inserted—

“(1B) Any company with a duty under subsections (1) and (1A) must furnish the Secretary of State and the Authority with an annual review which provides information about—

(a) their performance;

(b) the total amount of investment;

(c) their taxation structure;

(d) their corporate structure; and

(e) the total amount of dividends paid to shareholders.

(1C) Information under subsection (1B) must be provided prior to the publication of the annual statement of the Secretary of State under section 2A.”.’.

New clause 12—Oversight of charges—

‘In section 2 of the Water Industry Act 1991 (general duties with respect of the water industry), after subsection (2C) there is inserted—

“(2CA) For the purposes of subsection (2A)(a) above the Secretary of State or, as the case may be, the Authority shall have regard to the rates of charges to—

(a) household premises; and

(b) non-household premises.”.’.

New clause 14—Privatisation of water supply: review—

‘(1) Chapter 1 of this Act shall not come into force until the Secretary of State has laid before Parliament a report on the performance of the water companies since the privatisation of the arrangements for water supply came into force under the Water Act 1989, the Water Industry Act 1991 and the Water Consolidation (Consequential Provisions) Act 1991.

(2) A report under subsection (1) must in particular review—

(a) the cost of water to the consumer,

(b) the number of disconnections of water supply,

(c) the purity of the water supplied and the number and consequences of water pollution incidences attributable to the operation of the water companies,

(d) the incidences of leakages, low pressure and disruptions to water supply,

(e) the levels of investment in the water supply infrastructure by the water companies,

(f) the profits made and dividends paid to shareholders by the water companies,

(g) the levels of management remuneration of the water companies,

(h) the levels of taxation paid by the water companies, and

(i) the adherence of the water companies in their operations in the UK and internationally to the national legislation and international conventions and treaties on the protection of the environment, human rights and wages and employment conditions.’.

Government amendments 13 to 22 and 59.

Amendment 12, page 124, line 1, in clause 80, at end insert ‘(h) section [Retail exit].’.

Government new schedule 1—‘Orders under section 77: further provision.

Government amendments 23 to 28, 60, 29 to 46, 61 to 64, 47 to 50, 52, 53, 65 to 87 and 54.

[Hywel Williams]

As is often remarked, Wales is the land of mountains and valleys, and of lakes and rivers. It is therefore very appropriate that I, as a Welsh Member, speak on the Water Bill.

Water and lakes have had a central part in Welsh culture for many centuries. We witnessed astonishing discoveries some decades ago at Llyn Cerrig Bach, the lake on Ynys Môn, of metal offerings to the gods from 2,000 years ago, including some gruesome slave chains.

There is the story of Llyn y Fan Fach. The poor farm boy wins the love of the maiden of the lake. By intrigue, they marry and prosper. He strikes her inadvertently three times, and on the third blow she returns to the lake with all their worldly wealth. There are many other such stories.

Our lakes have inspired poets—too many to quote. One very short extract, which I will translate, will suffice. Gwilym Cowlyd, in his long poem to the mountains of Wales sings thus:

“Y llynnau gywyrddion llonnydd - a gysgant

Mewn gw as gawd ofynydd

A thynn heulwen ysblennydd

Ar len y dwr lun y dydd”.

That translates as: the still green lakes sleep in a waistcoat of mountain, and splendid sunlight draws on the sheet of the water the picture of the day.

Our lakes and rivers inspired Welsh artists such as Richard Wilson, who is sometimes called the father of “English”—sic—landscape painting. His two substantial paintings of Afon Dyfrdwy, the River Dee, can be seen in the National Gallery. His defining painting of Llyn-y-Cau on Cader Idris can be seen at Tate Britain.

So far, so uncontroversial. That fits into the usual Wales box—it is nothing to disturb Front Benchers on either side of the House—and is the conventional picture of our country as a place of extreme natural beauty, and of a long-lived, varied and inspiring culture, but water has also been an emotive, emblematic and defining political matter in Wales for many decades. Let no one in the Chamber doubt or underestimate the power and significance of the water issue in Wales.

I referred in Committee to the controversy and conflict in the 1950s and 1960s over the drowning of Welsh valleys to supply English conurbations against the will of the people of Wales. That was demonstrated in this very House of Commons, when all but one of Wales’s MPs voted against the removal of the people of the village of Capel Celyn and the drowning of their valley to supply the burgeoning and thirsty industrial development of Merseyside.

At the time, the developers saw that as the entirely reasonable harnessing of readily available natural resources for much needed development. They wondered what all the fuss was about. Many Welsh people saw it as straightforward expropriation, akin to the highland clearances. Chillingly, the drowning of Welsh valleys led to the first sustained campaign of bombing in Wales, which, in a further development, led tragically to the injury of an innocent schoolboy, and to the deaths of two of the bombers and the jailing of some of the key perpetrators. Some hon. Members will be familiar with the pictures taken by Geoff Charles, the photo-journalist, of the 1956 demonstration in Liverpool. The people of Capel Celyn marched through the streets of the city to the council buildings, only to find the doors barred against them. Their banners, carried through a city still bearing the many scars of aerial bombardment, said: “Your homes are safe. Save ours. Do not drown our homes.”

One of the leaders of that march in 1956 was Gwynfor Evans, the president of Plaid Cymru, who in 1966 was elected as the MP for Carmarthen. He was the first Plaid Cymru MP, a political earthquake that still reverberates today. Let no one here today doubt or underestimate the power of the water issue in Wales. To borrow RS Thomas’s line, rather than

“Worrying the carcass of an old song”,

let us look at the situation facing us today.

Dwr Cymru Welsh Water is the provider for most of Wales and for parts of England. Dee Valley Water supplies part of north-east Wales and part of the north-west of England. Severn Trent Water supplies mid-Wales and benefits from its water resources. Indeed, it has a 99-year contract with Welsh Water, dating most recently from 1984, to supply up to 360 megalitres per day of non-potable water. That contract ends in 2073.

This arrangement has its roots in the Birmingham Corporation Water Act 1892. It might appear to some as reasonable and practical at the height of municipal power at the end of the 19th century or when water was in public ownership. Indeed, it was the pattern adopted on privatisation and it continues today. To others, it is nothing less than a clear injustice, with a private sector organisation from another country benefiting from a substantial part of what should be a valuable public resource for Wales.

The water industry in Wales is different from the industry in England and in Scotland. It is run on a non-profit distributing basis. Any profits are channelled into lower prices or investment in the service. This has led to below-inflation price rises for the past three years, with a promise of similar for the future; to a sustained lowering of the gearing of the organisation in an industry where gearing is notoriously high; and to a substantial and sustained investment programme.

To get to the nub of the matter before us in new clause 1, the current arrangements are that the National Assembly for Wales has responsibility for water in Wales, save for that water which flows from mid-Wales to England. New clause 1 provides that the National Assembly for Wales shall have legislative competence for water up to the geographical boundary with England—nothing more and nothing less. It is a reasonable aspiration for any legislature to have legislative competence for important resources within its territory, and it is reasonable that the current arrangements should be changed.

Petitions

Debate between Hywel Williams and John Bercow

Tuesday 16th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

This petition was organised within a week of the announcement of the closure of the Territorial Army Centre in Caernarfon, which has a population of 9,600. It has already been signed by 2,204 people, which is a substantial proportion of that number. It reads as follows:

The Petition of the people of Caernarfon and the surrounding district,

Declares that the Petitioners are opposed to the closure of the Territorial Army Centre at Caernarfon and draws the House's attention to the long and unique tradition of service in the forces by people from the community; further notes that the Caernarfon centre has an important role in recruitment given that it serves a very large rural area, that similar facilities will not easily be available elsewhere.

The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urges the Government to retain the current usage of the site and explore complementary uses so that it can be further developed as an important and valued strategic resource.

And the Petitioners remain, etc.

[P001209]

[Mr Speaker]

Before I call the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) to present his petitions, let me give him some guidance. It is not necessary for him to perambulate back and forth between his seat and the Chair for the purposes of his presentation. He should remain in his place. Let me also advise him that, while he is at liberty to speak briefly about each of his three petitions, it would be a mistake for him to suppose that because he is speaking about three, he can speak for three times as long as he would have spoken if he were speaking to one. He should speak with the brevity of which I know he is periodically capable.

Territorial Army Centre (Caernarfon)

Debate between Hywel Williams and John Bercow

Tuesday 16th July 2013 Commons Chamber

Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)

- Hansard -

This petition was organised within a week of the announcement of the closure of the Territorial Army Centre in Caernarfon, which has a population of 9,600. It has already been signed by 2,204 people, which is a substantial proportion of that number. It reads as follows:

The Petition of the people of Caernarfon and the surrounding district,

Declares that the Petitioners are opposed to the closure of the Territorial Army Centre at Caernarfon and draws the House's attention to the long and unique tradition of service in the forces by people from the community; further notes that the Caernarfon centre has an important role in recruitment given that it serves a very large rural area, that similar facilities will not easily be available elsewhere.

The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urges the Government to retain the current usage of the site and explore complementary uses so that it can be further developed as an important and valued strategic resource.

And the Petitioners remain, etc.

[P001209]

Mr Speaker

- Hansard - - Excerpts

Before I call the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) to present his petitions, let me give him some guidance. It is not necessary for him to perambulate back and forth between his seat and the Chair for the purposes of his presentation. He should remain in his place. Let me also advise him that, while he is at liberty to speak briefly about each of his three petitions, it would be a mistake for him to suppose that because he is speaking about three, he can speak for three times as long as he would have spoken if he were speaking to one. He should speak with the brevity of which I know he is periodically capable.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Hywel Williams and John Bercow

Wednesday 11th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I remind the Secretary of State that she must face the Chair. However, she was not alone in her difficulty. Far too many noisy private conversations are taking place in the Chamber in which I have no interest whatsoever. I must tell the hon. Member for Broadland (Mr Simpson) that I want to hear Mr Hywel Williams.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

7. What discussions she has had with ministerial colleagues and the Welsh Assembly Government on cross-border implications of the provisions of the Health and Social Care Bill.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Hywel Williams and John Bercow

Wednesday 3rd November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. As I want to make some progress down the Order Paper, we must have shorter answers, so I shall cut them off if necessary.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

Perhaps I can help the two Front Benchers. In a written answer to a question to the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport, I was told that he and others were informed of the S4C decision

“in the days leading up to, or at the time of, the spending review and licence fee settlement announcements.”—[Official Report, 28 October 2010; Vol. 517, c. 413W.]

Can our Secretary of State be a little more precise, or is her memory deficient—tactically or otherwise?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Hywel Williams and John Bercow

Monday 12th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. It is always a pleasure to hear the hon. Lady, but I must observe in passing that Hampstead and Kilburn are some considerable distance from St Austell and Newquay.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

16. What recent discussions he has had with Welsh Assembly Government Ministers on teachers’ pay in Wales.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Hywel Williams and John Bercow

Monday 14th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. May I congratulate the hon. Member for West Worcestershire (Harriett Baldwin) on her ingenuity? I mean that genuinely. However, we will now focus specifically on people who are not associated with or linked to, but resident in, Wales.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

Can the Minister assure me that the Government are doing their utmost to protect existing jobs in small companies, for example by encouraging Departments not to take peremptory action on, say, unpaid tax or regulation matters?