Draft Building Safety Act 2022 (Consequential Amendments etc.) Regulations 2023

Hilary Benn Excerpts

Tuesday 13th June 2023 General Committees

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities (Lee Rowley)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Building Safety Act 2022 (Consequential Amendments etc.) Regulations 2023. 

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Robert. The regulations will make technical but important changes to the language used in existing legislation, bringing it into line with the new terminology and processes introduced by the Building Safety Act 2022.

I will start by providing some context. After the Grenfell Tower tragedy, the Government recognised the need for an overhaul of our building safety regime. The Hackitt review identified the need for significant change, including recommendations focused on the building control process. Part of the Government’s response to those building control recommendations included the introduction of provisions in section 33 of the 2022 Act that repeal section 16 of the Building Act 1984. The Government consulted on those provisions and they were subject to pre-legislative scrutiny ahead of the laying of the 2022 Act.

Section 16 of the 1984 Act made provision for the deposit of plans with local authorities before starting building work, as well as the passing or rejection of the plans. The information provided to building control was not always consistent, nor was it always sufficiently detailed for the work being carried out.

Section 33 of the 2022 Act—that section is yet to be enacted—repeals section 16 of the 1984 Act and provides instead for a new system of applications for building control approval. For higher-risk buildings, that effectively means a more stringent system that makes the Building Safety Regulator the sole building control body. Applicants cannot proceed with work without having explicit approval from the regulator. For non-higher-risk buildings, there is no significant change from the existing procedure. Local authorities and approved inspectors will remain responsible for supervising that work, and work can begin before approval is granted.

[Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)]

As the Minister and we all know, one thing that we have learned during the cladding crisis is that there are loads of jerry-built buildings that were not built according to the building regulations at the time. Will he explain how the new system and the role of the Building Safety Regulator will ensure that, in future, the basic rules are indeed followed, not just when the plans are submitted and approved, but so that the buildings are built according to those rules?

[Lee Rowley]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his pertinent question. He is absolutely right that we have to bring in new regulation and ensure that that is effective, compared with what happened previously. The purpose of centralising everything in the Building Safety Regulator for buildings that are over 18 metres is to make sure that there is a consistent approach. That approach will take the form of a multiple-stage process, known as gateways, whereby the developer is required to have an interaction with the regulator to make sure that the system works as it goes along. For example, for gateway 0, initial plans have to be submitted for consideration and comment by the regulator, and the exchange goes backwards and forwards. It is a much more iterative and discursive-based approach. There is also a stop in the process, whereby if the Building Safety Regulator is not content with what is happening, approval will not be provided to allow the developer to continue.

[Hilary Benn]

I am grateful to the Minister for that explanation. I have a follow-up question: what will that mean for inspection? This is about what the builders are doing on any given day, including putting in or not putting in the fire break—in many cases, they did not do that, even though it was in the plans. What role will the building safety inspector have in ensuring that, as the buildings are built, they are inspected to see that what is on the plans is actually built?

[Lee Rowley]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for raising that question. That will be in subsequent gateways and a subsequent part of what the Building Safety Regulator does. We are introducing a succession of regulations and statutory instruments, and on top of that, the Health and Safety Executive, which is where the Building Safety Regulator sits, will provide further information and guidance, and so on. That is a very important question, and the answer will become clearer in the coming months. If the right hon. Gentleman has any remaining concerns or suggestions from his experience, I will be happy to consider them and pass them back to the HSE.

[Lee Rowley]

My right hon. Friend makes an incredibly important point. We have to ensure that the regulations are effective in solving the problem, which manifested itself in such a tragic way a number of years ago, and that they do so in a way that ensures that we still build and that developers can still bring forward the houses that we badly need for the next generation. We have started that process. A couple of a months ago, I spoke at a conference convened by the Health and Safety Executive—where there were nearly 1,000 people from the industry, regulators and local councils—to make sure that that conversation is under way. We need to continue that and ensure that there is clarity on that issue.

The purpose of the regulations is to align the Highways Act 1980, the Clean Air Act 1993 and 13 local Acts with the terminology and processes that will be established when section 33 of the Building Safety Act is enacted. Provisions in the Highways Act that relate to the payment of charges for street works when building control plans are deposited are amended to refer to the new system for building control approval.

Section 16 of the Clean Air Act is also amended. That section requires local authorities to check the height of proposed chimneys to ensure that they are tall enough to prevent smoke and particulates from becoming prejudicial to health. The changes replace references to the deposit of plans with, again, references to the new process for building control approval. Similarly, 13 local Acts are amended to do the same. Of those local Acts, 11 contain provisions relating to appeals to the magistrates court. To align the Acts with the new procedure for appeals, the provisions are amended to direct those appeals to the first-tier tribunal.

This instrument also contains a transitional provision to ensure that consequential amendments do not apply to plans for building work that were deposited before the date on which the regulations come into force.

I say to the right hon. Gentleman for Leeds East—

[Hilary Benn]

Central.

[Lee Rowley]

Central—I almost got my points of the compass correct. To address the question from the right hon. Member for Leeds Central, I reassure all right hon. and hon. Members that they will be provided with the opportunity to scrutinise the new system’s specific requirements—we have talked about this briefly today—for applications for building control approval. Those were subject to a consultation in 2022 and will be set out in a number of statutory instruments in the coming months. The Government intend to bring the consequential amendment regulations and the regulations that create the new system into force in the autumn.

Without these consequential changes, the provisions of the Highways Act, the Clean Air Act and the 13 local Acts will not operate as they do now, as they will no longer have meaning once section 33 of the Building Safety Act is brought into force. For that reason, I commend the changes to the Committee.

Oral Answers to Questions

Hilary Benn Excerpts

Monday 27th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities (Dehenna Davison)]

Absolutely. My hon. Friend and I had a fantastic chat about this issue recently. I am committed to following through on that.

[Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)]

At a meeting in Leeds on Saturday of leaseholders affected by the cladding scandal, nearly two thirds said that they have absolutely no idea when their home is going to be made safe—six years after Grenfell. Does the Secretary of State agree that that is completely unacceptable? What is he going to do to make their homes safe?

[Michael Gove]

I saw reference to that meeting on the right hon. Gentleman’s Twitter feed. I owe him a visit to Leeds to talk to his constituents about that.

Building Safety

Hilary Benn Excerpts

Tuesday 14th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I need to reiterate that I can only call Members who arrived at the beginning of the statement. It is the responsibility of Members to make sure they get here in time to hear the Secretary of State’s statement from the beginning. I assure Members that I and the other Deputy Speakers are even-handed about this.

[Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)]

I very much welcome this statement, but I want to ask the Secretary of State about people living in buildings under 11 metres. The Government were not prepared to extend full coverage to them but said they would look at those buildings on a case-by-case basis—a commitment that the Secretary of State repeated this afternoon. Could he tell us how that is going? How many of those buildings have had assistance? What criteria are he and his colleagues using in deciding where to offer help? Does it include, for example, cases where the developers or builders went bust years ago? Does it include buildings where the leaseholders still cannot sell their flats because mortgage companies will not lend on them, despite the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors advice?

[Michael Gove]

The right hon. Gentleman makes a very important point. In most cases, a building under 11 metres which might, for example, have cladding on it, or might have some of the materials that in other circumstances would be systemically unsafe, does not have safety risk. We need to look proportionately at each building, and that takes time. Thanks to the energetic efforts of the Minister for building safety, my hon. Friend the Member for North East Derbyshire, we have reached agreement with a majority of lenders, which are now lending against properties, because through the engagement we have had with them, there is now a more proportionate way of deciding whether or not to lend against those buildings. As we have discussed in the past, however, let us look at individual cases, and if constituency cases and examples have come to light that the right hon. Gentleman feels are not captured by the steps we have taken so far, I look forward to working with him to address them.

Draft Higher-Risk Buildings (Key Building Information etc.) (England) Regulations 2023

Hilary Benn Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd February 2023 General Committees

[Dehenna Davison]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that one of the key issues is the clear line of accountability. That is something that the regulations and the Building Safety Act seek to rectify. I am happy to write to him with further clarity on the role of developers, if that would be helpful, but the key point is to ensure that a person in the building now is responsible for the building now and has that clear line of accountability. However, I will follow up in writing to provide more clarity.

[Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)]

Paragraph 6.3 of the explanatory memorandum talks about the principal accountable person providing the information alongside “their application for registration”. Is that the same as an application for a building assessment certificate, which is mentioned in paragraph 7.3? I ask that because the explanatory memorandum goes on to say that the regulator will require early applications for buildings deemed to be at higher risk. How will the accountable person know that their building is in the higher-risk category when deciding whether they should provide information early, as opposed to later?

Secondly—

[The Chair]

Order. Interventions need to be brief, as the right hon. Gentleman knows. The Minister will get the opportunity to wind up at the end. Can we just take that one point?

[Hilary Benn]

The one point is: how will the accountable person know whether there might be missing firebreaks in the building they are responsible for if it has never been peeled apart and examined?

--- Later in debate ---

[Dehenna Davison]

I will follow up on that point in writing after the Committee rises, because I have a few other points to cover.

The hon. Member for Greenwich and Woolwich asked whether fire doors, for example, are included in the fire and smoke equipment referred to in regulation 18. They are included. I hope that provides him with some reassurance.

We have set out a 28-day period for providing the key building information. It is important that that information is provided quickly so that the regulator can prioritise the call-in of building assessment certificates. For many existing buildings, accountable persons may not know whether there has been significant building work, so the Government are enabling accountable persons to say that they do not know on that point. For the fire standard, it was decided that the build date would provide enough information.

[Hilary Benn]

I am grateful to the Minister for clarifying the difference between registration and the assessment certificate application. The regulations require the regulator to decide whether a building among the higher-risk buildings is particularly higher risk. Do we take it from that that the regulator will write to the accountable person to say, “I have assessed, based on the information, that you are a priority for an application, and therefore I would like to see your information sooner rather than later”?

[Dehenna Davison]

I will follow up on that point in writing after the Committee rises, if that is acceptable.

Oral Answers to Questions

Hilary Benn Excerpts

Monday 20th February 2023 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

I do not need to badger the Chancellor; we are not just constituency neighbours, but brothers from different mothers. More than that, the newly appointed Minister of State, Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, my hon. Friend the Member for Redditch (Rachel Maclean), was immediately on the case. We will secure an extension to make sure that my hon. Friend’s constituents get the benefits from the scheme that they deserve, and I look forward to meeting him next month.

[Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)]

Does the Government’s commitment to look at helping blocks below 11 metres with cladding apply not only where that cladding is found to be dangerous and needs to be removed, but where lenders are still demanding EWS1 certificates, which cannot currently be provided?

[Michael Gove]

Let me look into the specifics of any individual case. It should be the case, however—as the conversations that the Under-Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, my hon. Friend the Member for North East Derbyshire (Lee Rowley), has had with lenders show—that there has been a significant diminution in the demand for EWS1 forms. Where they are still being demanded, however, I would like to know more, so I look forward to working with the right hon. Gentleman to find out more about any kinks in the system.

Building Safety

Hilary Benn Excerpts

Monday 30th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

That is entirely understandable, and once construction companies have signed this contract—and indeed this applies to social landlords too, once they commit to remediation—they should be in touch with the tenants and leaseholders to let them know when that work will be carried out. Again, I want to make sure that everyone is operating as they should. I would be grateful to the right hon. Gentleman if he could let me know, building by building, scheme by scheme, where people are still in doubt about this, and we will do everything possible to give them the information they deserve.

[Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)]

Far too many leaseholders are still living in properties that have not been remediated, including in my constituency at Cartier House, the Gateway, and the Drive, Saxton Gardens, which was turned down for building safety funding even though the cladding has recently failed a fire test. As a result, five and a half years after Grenfell, a waking watch has been put in place. This is not good enough, is it? When are they going to get sorted out?

[Michael Gove]

No, it is not. There are a number of other constituencies and local authorities where either a waking watch has been installed or people have had to be decanted from the building, as was the case in Ipswich and in South Yorkshire. We are seeking to move as quickly as possible in order to ensure that that work advances. As I mentioned, the overwhelming majority of the buildings over 18 metres that have ACM now have work in place or being carried out. However, I will follow up on the individual cases that the right hon. Gentleman was kind enough to mention.

Levelling-up Fund Round 2

Hilary Benn Excerpts

Thursday 19th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Lucy Frazer]

I thank my hon. Friend for his campaigning work to improve the area of Blackpool. It is areas like that that we absolutely want to level up, to improve living standards and the lives of communities for those people who are living in Blackpool.

[Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)]

There is bitter disappointment that the really good bid from Holbeck—one of the most deprived parts of my constituency, which is the 18th most deprived in the country—has received nothing. As the Chair of the Select Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield South East (Mr Betts), said, huge efforts were put in and hopes were raised, only to be dashed when bids were unsuccessful. Since this is all about control, surely it is now time to devolve the money to local areas so that they can determine their own priorities according to their own decisions, rather than continuing to ask them to jump up and down at the whim of central Government.

[Lucy Frazer]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his points. There was £8 billion in funding and of course not everyone can be successful, even though a lot of very good bids were made. He makes a very important point about devolved powers; he will know that this Government have taken great strides in devolving power to Mayors across the country. Indeed, we very recently announced a number of other areas that are gaining devolved authority. We are continually looking at how we can further devolve powers to ensure that power and authority are directed to local areas, driven by local communities.

Oral Answers to Questions

Hilary Benn Excerpts

Monday 9th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Lucy Frazer]

The hon. Member makes an important point, and I know that freeholders are paying charges for maintaining communal areas, known colloquially as “fleecehold”. It is something we are looking at, and I am happy to update him on that.

[Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)]

Just before Christmas, a constituent of mine received a service charge bill in respect of her leasehold flat for fire-stopping works. Leaseholders rightly believe they should not have to pay to fix fire safety defects, and they think the Building Safety Act 2022 protects them from having to do so. Can the Minister therefore set out for the House in what circumstances it is still lawful for the owner of a building to charge leaseholders to fix fire safety defects?

[Lucy Frazer]

As the right hon. Gentleman will know, we are taking a number of steps in the Building Safety Act 2022 to strengthen protections for the residents living in these buildings. The Under-Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, my hon. Friend the Member for North East Derbyshire (Lee Rowley), or I will write to the right hon. Gentleman on his specific question.

Social Housing Standards

Hilary Benn Excerpts

Wednesday 16th November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

The hon. Lady makes a fair point about ensuring that we do everything possible to support local authorities to increase social housing stock. Of course, we do need to keep that under review and, again, we will be saying more about that in due course.

[Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)]

The hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman), who is no longer in his place, spoke for all of us when he described how our constituents are often told that they are somehow to blame for damp, condensation and mould. I very much welcome the clear statement the Secretary of State just made that that will no longer be acceptable from any landlord. Given that he has said that, we can tell our tenants that from today. Will he consider putting a time limit on the period in which the housing provider must fix a problem from when it is first raised? I do believe that that would concentrate the mind. In many cases—we will all be familiar with this—the problem goes back and forth and still does not get sorted out.

Levelling Up, Housing and Communities

Hilary Benn Excerpts

Wednesday 19th October 2022 Ministerial Corrections

The following is an extract from Levelling Up, Housing and Communities questions on 17 October 2022.

[Hilary Benn]

As well as having to cope with the cost of remortgaging, thousands of people who thought they had bought a safe and secure home are still living with unsafe cladding and other fire-safety defects. What is the Secretary of State’s current assessment of the total number of properties in England that have yet to be made safe?