Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Helen Whately and Louise Haigh

Thursday 10th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Helen Whately (Faversham and Mid Kent) (Con)]

I wonder if the right hon. Lady can see the irony in the fact that the new bus system that she is so excited about introducing is broadly the same as the train system that she is busy dismantling. The simple truth is that without funding, the Government’s plan will not make struggling bus services viable or affordable for passengers. What has helped is our £2 fare cap, which has saved millions of people money and helped to keep local buses going, especially in rural areas. Does the Secretary of State agree that the £2 fare cap has been a good thing and, crucially, is she going to keep it?

[Louise Haigh]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right to suggest that the underfunding of bus services over a decade has led to the cancellation and scrapping of thousands of bus routes across the country, and passenger numbers have fallen over the last 40 years. We are committed to consolidating funding and ending the “Hunger Games” style process that the previous Government oversaw, which pitted authorities against each other and created winners and losers.

--- Later in debate ---

[Helen Whately (Faversham and Mid Kent) (Con)]

After just 100 days, this is already one of the most anti-growth Governments in history, from investor-scaring taxes to the right hon. Lady hitting the brakes on our transport infrastructure pipeline, with Northern Powerhouse Rail, the Midlands Rail Hub and road upgrades across the country all on hold. Growth requires investment and investment requires confidence. Will she give some to the businesses looking to invest, to the contractors waiting to get started, and, crucially, to the communities that so badly need these upgrades?

[Louise Haigh]

I wonder whether the hon. Lady has spoken to any businesses or infrastructure providers over the past 14 years who have suffered appalling uncertainty and a lack of confidence. Her Government presided over billions of pounds of waste and failure in the delivery of infrastructure and have cost our economy hundreds of billions of pounds.

[Helen Whately]

I was expecting the right hon. Lady to say something along the lines of “wait for the Budget”, or “wait for the spending review”, as we have heard many times during this question session. However, she did not wait for the Budget to give unions a massive pay rise, to re-announce our plan to get HS2 to Euston, or to signal billions of pounds for a new HS2-light. If she can make those decisions before the Budget, surely she can confirm that every penny of investment that we had committed to transport through Network North will continue to be invested in our country’s transport infra- structure.

[Louise Haigh]

The hon. Lady can wait for the Budget!

Passenger Railway Services (Public Ownership) Bill

Debate between Helen Whately and Louise Haigh

Committee of the whole House
Tuesday 3rd September 2024 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Transport (Louise Haigh)]

I would be interested to know whether the hon. Lady has spoken to her immediate predecessor to understand exactly the value of the reforms he was pursuing as Secretary of State, and if she was aware that they were worth less than half the cost of every time the railways went on strike under his leadership.

[Helen Whately]

Unfortunately, the right hon. Lady’s approach is deeply flawed and risks our facing more strikes in future, rather than fewer. [Interruption.] Yes, to directly answer her question, I can assure her that I have spoken to her predecessor in the role, and I know that the reforms proposed to modernise the railways were crucial not only to controlling increasing costs and fares, but to improving the reliability of our train services. Unfortunately, she gave all that up overnight when she gave away a bumper pay deal of almost 15%, with nothing from the other side to improve services.

The independent body I am proposing would look at pay and terms and conditions in the round. It could shed some light on who is getting a fair deal and help put modernisation at the top of the agenda in negotiations. Given that this Government seem to be set on creating a single huge employer across the network, as set out in their manifesto, which surely means harmonising pay and terms and conditions across many thousands of employees, none of whom I suspect will want to give up whatever terms they most value—a four-day working week, 34 days of annual leave and the extra money they negotiated to start using iPads are some examples—can the right hon. Lady imagine what effect this might have on ticket prices and the efficiency of our network? An independent pay review body could at least gather evidence and advise Government on what makes sense to fill jobs and provide value for money for the taxpayer.

Madam Chair, I am grateful to you for giving me some time to outline our amendments, and I am mindful that other Members wish to talk to their amendments or make maiden speeches, so I will wrap up my comments with a couple of final points. As we made clear on Second Reading, His Majesty’s official Opposition do not support this Bill. Our rail system needs reform, and we have set out plans to do that, but this Bill is not the right way to go about it. On the contrary, the Government are being driven by a flawed ideological belief along the lines of “public sector good, private sector bad”. It is not underpinned by evidence of what works, and they are not being straight with people about the possible downsides such as higher fares for passengers, higher costs for taxpayers and less reliable trains.

Why are the Government rushing through this Bill? Is it to please their Back Benchers, who we know are deeply unhappy about scrapping the winter fuel allowance, or is it to please their union paymasters? I know the right hon. Lady has promised everyone that she is going to move fast and fix things, but this looks more like moving fast and breaking things. I say sincerely to her, as I am sure she will want to make this legislation as good as it can be and, like me, wants to do the best possible job for all our constituents and for the country we serve, that she should please consider the amendments we have tabled and think hard about giving them the Government’s support.