Fixed Odds Betting Terminals (Lancashire)

Helen Grant Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd January 2014 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Mrs Helen Grant)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Owen. I congratulate the hon. Member for Hyndburn (Graham Jones) on securing the debate, and I thank my hon. Friends the Members for Bury North (Mr Nuttall) and for Shipley (Philip Davies) for their interventions, which were, as ever, important and knowledgeable.

This debate on fixed odds betting terminals and their effect on communities has focused largely on Lancashire, but the Government recognise that many people throughout the country have concerns about the machines, and that some people have gone through considerable difficulties as a result of playing them. That is why the Government are working hard and rapidly to make them safer, especially to those at greatest risk. I have made the Government’s approach clear in various debates and answers to questions recently, but for the avoidance of doubt I shall set our position out again.

The Government conducted a review of gaming machine stakes and prize limits last year and as part of that we called for evidence that fixed odds betting terminals present an elevated risk of gambling-related harm. We received plenty of anecdotal evidence from people who have experienced problems similar to those outlined by the hon. Member for Hyndburn as a result of playing the machines. However, we also received formal advice from the Gambling Commission and the Responsible Gambling Strategy Board that a precautionary reduction in stake or prize limits was unsupported by evidence, and was unlikely to be effective in minimising harm, which is what the debate is all about. The Government concluded that the future of the machines is unresolved.

[Graham Jones]

The Minister makes a point about an evidence-based approach, but we must at some point adopt an intelligence-based approach that looks forward. Of course there is no evidence in the future; that is the basis of the precautionary principle. Does she accept that we need an approach that is not exclusively evidence-based, but also about intelligence in applying a precautionary principle?

[Mrs Grant]

Of course we must look at all the factors, and that is why I have had several meetings with various industry people. Someone from GamCare came to see me in my office yesterday, and I am prepared to consider everything relevant, to ensure that we do not just have a knee-jerk response and that if there is a need for regulation it will be proportionate and sensible, and will do the job of dealing with problem gambling.

[Graham Jones]

Has the Minister met representatives of the Campaign for Fairer Gambling?

[Mrs Grant]

No, I have not, but I believe that a round table meeting has been or is being arranged. If that organisation has not yet been invited, I am sure that it will be.

The Government fully acknowledge that fixed odds betting terminals cause problems for some people. That needs to be addressed—the Prime Minister was clear about that at Prime Minister’s questions on 8 January—but we have to be responsible and to take action likely to be effective. For that reason, the Government have demanded that the industry bring in precautionary player protection measures while we look at the evidence on how players can be protected most effectively in the longer term.

[Graham Jones]

Will the Minister give way?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Grant]

I want to make a little headway, but I will then let the hon. Gentleman intervene.

More specifically, the industry will introduce strengthened player protection measures, which come into effect in just a few weeks’ time—from the end of next month. For the first time, all machines will introduce automatic pauses in play and the option for customers to set limits on both how long they play and how much money they spend. In addition, information on playing behaviour will be available to customers, and the industry will make it easier for players to self-exclude. Those measures are the most significant controls on gaming machines since the Gambling Act 2005. It has been made clear to the industry that if the measures are insufficient, a precautionary approach will be taken, which could include action on stakes and prizes, speed of play or any other appropriate measure.

However, I am not stopping there. I am meeting the chief executives of the five largest British bookmakers again next week when they will be presenting me with plans to link players with data in a way that allows us better to understand player behaviour and to assess the effectiveness of the harm mitigation measures being introduced. I have been clear that if I am not satisfied by the industry’s proposals, the case for prudential moves on stakes, prizes, availability of machines or anonymous play will be made significantly stronger.

In addition, the Responsible Gambling Trust is carrying out research that aims better to understand how people behave when playing gaming machines and what helps people to stay in control. I met the trust in December, pressed it to make progress with the research programme and emphasised the importance of obtaining tangible research outcomes by autumn 2014. I am absolutely clear that the industry must find a way to secure and examine data that links players with play, so that more effective player protection can be developed.

[Graham Jones]

The Minister has made some good points, and I accept that she is now beginning to move towards the precautionary principle, given her comments about the interventions on machines that will come in by the end of next month. Is that not a move from an evidence-based approach, under which nothing will be done until the evidence is gathered despite there being no evidence, to the acceptance that something should be done? We are now applying the precautionary principle and including splash screens on FOBTs to protect gamblers. Is that not a shift from an evidence-based approach to the precautionary principle? Is that not the right way forward?

[Mrs Grant]

No. I have been clear on the matter from the start, and I am quite surprised at what the hon. Gentleman says. The first time I stood up to discuss the issue at oral questions in the House, I said that the machines are a concern, that there is no green light for fixed odds betting machines and that their future is unresolved pending further work that has already begun. I have continued to send out that message.

Whether local authorities have sufficient powers is often raised in such debates, but I believe that their powers are sufficient to deal with concerns. Local authorities can reject an application for a gambling premises licence or grant one with additional conditions. They have the power to review a premises licence after it has been granted and can actually impose licence conditions after review. Many local authorities have already used those powers to good effect—I congratulate Newham, which used its powers in November—and the Government urge local authorities fully to utilise the powers at their disposal to tackle problem gambling in their communities.

[Graham Jones]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mrs Grant]

No, I want to make a little more progress.

Local authorities are also able to use article 4 directions to good effect. I am pleased to say that two authorities have brought forward directions in respect of betting shops. I congratulate the London boroughs of Barking and Dagenham and of Southwark for using powers when the amenity of their communities needs additional protection.

I want to pick up on three issues raised by the hon. Gentleman. First, he mentioned the scrapping of the annual prevalence survey, which was an expensive way of measuring problem gambling, with over £500,000 of taxpayer money being spent on each survey. The health surveys for England and Scotland now measure problem gambling rates, which is a much more cost-effective and efficient method of collecting data.

Secondly, the hon. Gentleman referred to a request made by the university of Cambridge for a FOBT for research purposes. I am willing to write to those concerned to assist in the resolution of that matter. Thirdly, the hon. Gentleman remarked on the link between the location of betting shops and deprivation, but I understand that such shops are located according to footfall. To back that up, no significant correlation exists between the indices of multiple deprivation and problem gambling rates. That was confirmed by the December 2013 health survey.

In conclusion, the Government are undertaking urgent work to ensure the safety of all users of fixed odds betting terminals. The industry will be reporting to me next week on its plans for targeted player protection measures for those at greatest risk. I do not rule out any action that may be necessary to make machines safer. If the player protection measures do not prove sufficient, or if the balance of evidence suggests that precautionary action on stakes and prizes or other measures is required, the Government will not hesitate to act.