English Votes for English Laws and North Wales

Guto Bebb Excerpts

Wednesday 1st July 2015 Westminster Hall

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Crausby.

Four minutes is not a long time to discuss the issues raised by the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen), whom I congratulate on securing this debate. He is a champion for his constituency and for North Wales, and there is no doubt that he has raised some genuine concerns that are felt across the region and, indeed, recognised in the wider United Kingdom. Nevertheless, it is a shame that the main thrust of his argument was that we should establish a UK constitutional convention along the lines proposed in the Labour party manifesto for the 2015 general election. If there was ever a need for such a convention, it has long since passed.

The truth is that we have a devolution settlement that was not particularly well thought through. I agree with my right hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd West (Mr Jones), who highlighted the fact that the devolution settlement we have was created without any real thought as to how to ensure that it was fair and equitable. Nevertheless, we are where we are. We must address how we move forward equitably and reasonably.

It is interesting to note that many Members from North Wales will say that they want to retain the ability to influence the services provided by, for example, the English NHS—the hon. Member for Ynys Môn spoke about the health service. It is true that people from North Wales go to Greater Manchester or the Merseyside area for specialist services, but it is also true that people from England come to Cardiff for specialist services. My cousin is a consultant in a hospital in Cardiff, and he treats people from South Wales and people from England. The point still stands: it is clear that, as Welsh MPs, we have no ability to influence most of the health services provided by the Welsh Assembly, but English MPs have no ability to influence how their constituents are treated if they require support.

The situation in North Wales is very clear: specialist services are generally provided from England, but the same is not necessarily true in all parts of the kingdom. The issue remains: how do we reach an equitable situation so that Members from North Wales and England have the ability to influence decisions? It is important to recognise that there is a feeling of unfairness, even along the North Wales coast. Having spoken to people who have moved into North Wales from England, I know that there is a feeling that there is something inequitable in the devolution situation.

Saying that we need a constitutional convention to try to address the inequities is over-egging the cake. We have not been talking about the West Lothian question only since 1977, when Tam Dalyell started to talk about it; Gladstone talked about it back in the 19th century. We can talk about it until the cows come home, but really we need to take action. I genuinely believe that the current inequity is a bigger threat to the devolution settlement than doing nothing. I am afraid that the example from Scotland and other parts of the UK is that, often, constitutional conventions are set up when there is a desire to kick something into the long grass.

We need to ensure that laws that relate only to England can be influenced by Members from Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, but the main decision-making on those specific laws that are deemed English-only should be made by English MPs.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Guto Bebb]

I will take only one intervention, because of the time.

[Ian C. Lucas]

What is an English-only law?

[Guto Bebb]

That is a key point. We have to have some confidence in the ability of this House and Parliament as a whole to come to a conclusion and define a specific law as English, English and Welsh, or UK-wide. The hon. Gentleman has highlighted a crucial point: we are talking as if a deal has been done, but the detail of the Government’s proposals has not yet been announced—

[Ian C. Lucas]

Give us an example.

[Guto Bebb]

In my view, it is clear that many Bills will be categorised as English and Welsh. In many cases, they will be categorised as UK-wide. Nevertheless, we have to accept that there is a principle that needs to be dealt with.

Finally, my hon. Friend the Member for Eddisbury (Antoinette Sandbach), who was previously a colleague of mine in North Wales, made an important point: anyone who believes in devolution cannot be very pleased with how the Welsh Assembly has worked, because it has sucked power into Cardiff. I want to stress, however, that that is not necessarily a failure of devolution; I would argue that it is a failure of how the Labour party has dealt with devolution in Wales.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

I will be brief, Mr Crausby. The definition of an English-only law is crucial to this debate. The problem is that the Government are leaving us completely in the dark. We are having this debate only because my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen), whom I congratulate, initiated it. I tabled a question for the Secretary of State for Wales about what consultation he had had with the people of Wales on proposals for English votes for English laws. That question was transferred to the Leader of the House. I believe that virtually no consultation has taken place.

[Guto Bebb]

rose—

[Ian C. Lucas]

I do not have time to give way, as the hon. Gentleman well knows.

Not only has the Secretary of State not consulted the people of Wales, but he has not consulted Members of Parliament. There has been no discussion whatever with MPs on the issue. That is a crucial point. Mr Speaker will need to have the wisdom of Solomon to determine what is an English-only law. The first thing he should do is visit North Wales and Cheshire. Our region is unique in the United Kingdom and exemplifies why this question is so difficult.

I expect nationalists to divide, separate and try to have a culture of blame between each part of our country. I do not expect those of us who believe in the United Kingdom to argue in favour of division or separateness. Whatever our political background, we should stand together to work out a proper way of doing this, with consultation. That is what we need.

I will make a proposal. There are Members from North Wales who take a sensible approach to the matter. Representatives of the Mersey Dee Alliance are here in Parliament today. We need an all-party group for the Mersey-Dee region, to put the case in Parliament for a cross-border economic and cultural environment. We have that opportunity within the context of this debate. We need the Government to start to listen. Their ignorance is palpable, and they have closed their ears.

Business of the House

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Thursday 27th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I encourage the hon. Gentleman to talk to energy-intensive industries and ask them what they think of the Budget. The answer he will get is that the Budget did absolutely the right things. Time and again, we are hearing the representatives of manufacturers and businesses in this country welcome the Budget. It is a disgrace that the Labour party does not put the interests of business first and that it voted against the Budget.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

Small businesses have been crucial to the economic growth and employment growth in my constituency, and they are grateful for the many measures that the Government have implemented to support that employment growth. Is it possible to have a debate in the House on the changes to statutory sick pay, which might have an inadvertent effect on those small businesses?

[Mr Lansley]

My hon. Friend will know that the abolition of statutory sick pay was recommended in Carol Black and David Frost’s independent review of sickness absence. The Government agreed with them that the system was outdated and that it reduced the incentive to manage sickness absence in the work force. The Government are reinvesting the money that is saved into the new Health and Work Service. That will help small businesses, which often do not have occupational health provision, to manage sickness absence in a more proactive way and to get their employees back to work sooner than under the old system. Frankly, as we all know, that is also in the best interests of the employees. Employees will be able to take advantage of a new tax exemption on medical treatments that are recommended by the service or an employer-arranged occupational health service.

Business of the House

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Thursday 18th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I thought that the Prime Minister gave excellent answers to questions yesterday, but if there is a problem with Prime Minister’s questions, the hon. Gentleman might like to worry about who is on his own Front Bench rather than on ours.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

May we have a statement on the revolving door that exists between the Financial Conduct Authority and the financial sector that it is supposed to regulate? It was announced today that Julia Dunn had moved from the FCA to Nationwide, and on Monday it was announced that Christina Sinclair was moving from the FCA to Barclays. Many small businesses that were mis-sold interest rate derivative products need to be reassured about the fact that the designer of the redress scheme has moved to one of the main sellers of those products.

[Mr Lansley]

I will of course raise my hon. Friend’s concerns with my hon. Friends at the Treasury. As he will, I hope, have seen in the course of the debate on the Financial Services (Banking Reform) Bill, they are very exercised about these matters and are determined to ensure the highest standards of conduct in the banking and financial services sector, following up on the parliamentary commission.

Business of the House

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Thursday 11th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

Perhaps I should reiterate what I said to the shadow Leader of the House. It is very straightforward: the Home Secretary has published in the Command Paper the Government’s conclusions on the opt-out—last October, she made it clear that the Government’s policy was to opt out and then decide whether, and to what extent, to opt back in—and policy conclusions. Monday’s debate will enable the House to respond to that and to vote in support of the opt-out, but to note that we are entering negotiations that will lead to a vote in 2014 on the extent of the opt-in.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

For a decade or more, many parts of Wales have received European money at the highest intervention rate, with little obvious effect on the economy. In view of the UK Government’s generous settlement for Wales—again—and the latest round of EU funding, may we have a debate on the effectiveness of EU funding in helping the GDP of areas such as Wales and other parts of the United Kingdom?

[Mr Lansley]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. There were many happy consequences of the Prime Minister’s negotiating success in the budget negotiations. One was to reduce the overall size of the budget, and another was to give us the flexibility we are looking for, and focus on, improving our international competitiveness, and Wales will receive more than €2.145 billion in European funding from 2014 to 2020. We are focusing those funds on regions with lower GDP per capita, and using the full flexibility available. Among other things, that will provide west Wales and the valleys with an increase of €91 million compared with what the allocation would have been by applying the European Union formula alone.

Electoral Registration and Administration Bill

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Tuesday 29th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Chris Ruane]

I will give way to the hon. Gentleman if he wishes to intervene.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

indicated dissent.

[Chris Ruane]

He does not. I think that he has forgotten about the Act of 1536 which settled these issues.

Business of the House

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Thursday 17th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I heard the Prime Minister’s reply during Prime Minister’s questions yesterday, and the hon. Gentleman might recall that during business questions last week I made it clear that my hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough (Nicky Morgan) and I have visited a food bank. We rightly appreciate the service that is being provided by food banks and the Department for Work and Pensions operates a food bank referral service that works with them, including, in particular, the Trussell Trust. The Government are also working independently, not least through the Healthy Start scheme, which helps about 500,000 very low-income families across the UK to buy milk, fruit and vegetables as part of a healthy balanced diet.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

According to TripAdvisor, the town of Llandudno in my constituency has some of the best guest houses in the world. However, if they want to increase business by offering a complimentary glass of wine to their residents as part of an evening meal, they face the disproportionate cost of acquiring a licence. May we have a debate on the Government’s proposals, as set out in the alcohol strategy, for reducing licensing burdens on these ancillary sellers of alcohol?

[Mr Lansley]

Yes. I am grateful to my hon. Friend. If I recall correctly, there was very positive coverage of at least one hotel in Llandudno earlier this week—

Business of the House

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Thursday 8th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

The hon. Lady should remember that it was her right hon. Friend the Member for South Shields (David Miliband) who said frankly and correctly that youth unemployment in this country was rising from 2004. In the midst of a boom, youth unemployment was still rising. In the latest figures, we have seen some amelioration of those trends. The Youth Contract is about making sure that there are work experience places, apprenticeships places and special support for 16 to 19-year-olds who want to get into apprenticeships. As I have said many times, there will be opportunities, and I hope even she might encourage those on her Front Bench to make opportunities available to debate the progress that we are making on employment.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

May we have a statement from the Home Secretary offering guidance on the appropriate action to take against a police officer who has been accused of using his position to intimidate and harass, a finding that has been recorded by a judge in a family law case? Are the police correct in taking no action as a result of the family court’s refusal to discuss the matter with them?

[Mr Lansley]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising that serious issue. As he will know, police officers are expected to maintain the highest standards of professional behaviour. In addition to the criminal and civil law, they are subject to the Police (Conduct) Regulations 2008, which set out the standards of professional behaviour they are expected to maintain. When they fail to meet those standards, they can face disciplinary action. Of course, decisions about disciplinary action are a matter for the chief officer of the police force concerned or its police authority. If someone wants to make a complaint about a police officer, however it arises, they should contact the force concerned or its police authority or, if they fail to secure action that way, the Independent Police Complaints Commission.

Business of the House

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Thursday 1st November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

As the hon. Gentleman will know, the Prime Minister responded to a question about that on the Wednesday before last. However, I understand that the former International Development Secretary is due to give evidence to the International Development Committee, which will provide an opportunity for the position to be set out very clearly.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

The interest rate swap mis-selling scandal, to which Members on both sides of the House have drawn attention, resulted in the setting up of a redress scheme by the Financial Services Authority. May we have a debate on the issue in Government time before Christmas, once the pilot programme for the scheme has been completed?

[Mr Lansley]

The issue of redress is important. As my hon. Friend knows, it is important for the pilot scheme for the review process to be completed—although it has now been extended for two weeks—and to focus on the need to provide redress for customers, when appropriate, as swiftly as possible, because of the impact on small businesses of the mis-selling of interest rate hedging products. I will ask my colleagues whether there will be any opportunities for the issue to be raised in a debate—I am not aware of one at present—but the hon. Gentleman should consider using the Parliamentary Commission on Banking Standards, for instance, as a mechanism enabling him to raise the issue more extensively.

Business of the House

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Thursday 18th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I gently remind the hon. Gentleman that the allocation of time for a debate on the badger cull was made through the Backbench Business Committee and not provided by the Government.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

The Welsh Language Act 1993, which was championed in this House by my predecessor Lord Roberts, has been diluted by the Welsh language measure passed by the Labour-Plaid Administration in the Welsh Assembly in 2011—a change that has resulted in significantly less protection for the Welsh language in non-devolved matters. May we have a debate in this House to reaffirm the principles of the 1993 Act, which are being diluted by the actions of the Labour-Plaid Administration?

[Mr Lansley]

I understand my hon. Friend’s point, as will my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales. He and the Wales Office are addressing this issue and will continue to work with the Welsh Language Commissioner and with the non-devolved Departments and organisations to champion the Welsh language. I will further contact the Secretary of State and ask him to be aware of my hon. Friend’s comments and to respond.

Business of the House

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Thursday 15th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Sir George Young]

The hon. Gentleman has put this view forward consistently over a period of time and I commend him for his persistence. Such a matter would be for the Backbench Business Committee to find time to debate, but he might have seen in reports from my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister’s visit to America about the timetable for withdrawal that we will have withdrawn from the combat role by the end of 2014. Also, there will be regular statements on a quarterly basis updating Members on the position in Afghanistan; he might want to ask a question in response to one of those statements.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

A report in last week’s Sunday Telegraph highlighted the mis-selling of complex interest rate swap products to small businesses, such as a hotel in my constituency owned by Mr Colin Jones. Those businesses clearly did not have the financial expertise to understand the risks to which they were being subjected as a result of signing the forms. The cases that have been highlighted are merely the tip of the iceberg, so may we have a debate about this issue and about the reluctance of the Financial Services Authority and the Financial Ombudsman Service to get involved in this mis-selling and protect the businesses in question?

[Sir George Young]

There might be an opportunity for my hon. Friend to raise this issue when the Financial Services Bill returns to the Floor of the House having completed its Committee stage. In the meantime I shall raise it with my hon. Friends at the Treasury. I would say, however, that anyone who is thinking of investing in such products should take independent professional advice before signing any contract.