S4C

Guto Bebb Excerpts

Wednesday 19th October 2011 Westminster Hall

[Hywel Williams]

I certainly will put those questions to the Minister, given that I have been speaking now for some 14 minutes. First, though, there is the question of administration. I understand that administering the channel costs about £20 million. From where is that to be obtained? I understand that the DCMS is to provide £7 million and that £3 million can be obtained from the channel’s commercial activities. What about the other £10 million? Where will that come from?

On management and governance, the point raised by my right hon. Friend is pertinent. We come to the matter of S4C’s independence. Again, the Government have assured us that S4C’s independence will be guaranteed. Will the BBC be appointing people on the operational side, which is my understanding? If that is so, how many people and at what level? What will be their function? Will they be there to look after the BBC’s interests? How can they avoid literally taking the BBC’s side? For example, if S4C decides to bid for a particular sports event that is in competition with the BBC—the Government are in favour of competition, are they not?—where will the loyalties of those BBC appointees lie? Will it be with the channel, or will it be with the BBC? Will they have a veto or a super majority, whatever that might be?

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing the debate. On the issue of competition with the BBC, I find that a very odd comment in view of the fact that the most popular programmes provided by S4C are actually provided for the channel by the BBC. Secondly, in terms of the independence of the channel and the concern that the hon. Gentleman raises in terms of BBC involvement, is it not the case that back in 1982 the S4C authority members were a minority on the board of S4C? Indeed, there were representatives from the independent television production sector. Yet S4C, launched in 1982, became a great success.

[Hywel Williams]

Indeed. The hon. Gentleman makes my point for me. It is possible to do this. It is possible to do this without the uncertainty that the Government have caused by how they have handled this issue. We are uncertain and I look to the Minister and the hon. Gentleman to reassure us that the highly successful co-operation that existed before is obtained again in the future. I am glad that he made that point.

As I was saying about the BBC appointees, will they have a veto? What about reporting back to the BBC? Will it be a matter of providing quarterly information reports? That is one thing, I suppose, but day-to-day reporting about individual decisions is quite another, so where does it lie?

In respect of the board, I take it that they will all be DCMS appointees. Perhaps the Minister will confirm that. What will be the BBC representation? What will the split be between the BBC representation and others? Will the Minister confirm that the board members loyalty will be to S4C and not to any body that appointed them? Is it not usually the case with such bodies that the first loyalty is to the body itself, whatever the sponsoring organisation? Surely, in the interests of securing the future, their loyalty must be to the channel.

Huw Jones, I think yesterday, said that S4C

“will be an effective partner for the BBC—managing itself but being accountable to the BBC Trust for its use of licence money and to the Government for the other public money”.

That is a very positive statement, and I hope that all hon. Members will take it as such. However, for this to be the case, all of the questions I put, and possibly more, must be answered before the people of Wales have any confidence that the Government are committed to ensuring the best possible television service for the Welsh-speaking audience and the future of S4C.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Vaizey]

I would not use “pressure” in that context. The partnership is one of people who are interested in the future of S4C, and includes S4C, the BBC and my officials. I am sure that we will announce our conclusions shortly and then consult interested parties. I also take the opportunity to say how much I enjoyed my appearance before the Welsh Affairs Committee discussing the future of S4C.

To go to the heart of the issue, I assure the hon. Member for Arfon that S4C will remain an independent service. It will retain its brand identity and its editorial independence. Furthermore, the crucial role that S4C plays in sustaining the Welsh independent television sector will be maintained, with 100% of S4C’s commissioning budget being spent in the independent sector, as now. That is a crucial commitment which will ensure that S4C continues to support the Welsh creative industries and the wider creative community in Wales. In Wales, there is a clear-sighted strategy to support the many successful creative industries, which I wholeheartedly support.

[Guto Bebb]

On S4C supporting the creative industries in Wales, does the Minister have any concerns about the administration budget of S4C perhaps being cut by 10%, but the programming budget appearing to be cut by 25% due to decisions taken by S4C?

[Mr Vaizey]

I hear what my hon. Friend says, but it is incumbent on me to say that, given that S4C will be independent of the BBC, it is certainly not for a Minister to tell the channel how to spend its money. Given the accountability and transparency agenda, S4C must have heard his comments and will no doubt be writing to him to explain that position, as well as to the hon. Member for Arfon, who might want to make similar points.

I have already mentioned the Public Bodies Bill and how the new clause will for the first time set in statute a requirement that S4C receives sufficient funding. The hon. Member for Arfon expressed concerns about funding continuing beyond 2015. As my hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire indicated in his intervention, there is effectively an agreement in principle that that funding will continue until 2017, although it still needs to be formally agreed—in effect, that offer is now on the table.

To step back from the details mentioned by the hon. Member for Arfon—if I have missed any, I will write to him—I want to add that S4C will remain independent. S4C staff will be appointed not by the BBC but by the S4C board and executive. S4C has significant funding and a secure future independent of but in partnership with the BBC. It has a great chairman and now a superb new chief executive. The future is bright for S4C. I pay tribute not only to my hon. Friends but to all hon. Members who have participated over the past few months in discussions about the future of S4C.

Question put and agreed to.