Regional Pay

Guto Bebb Excerpts

Wednesday 20th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

I come to this debate with a question mark over whether I can support this policy. I share my doubts with many Conservative Welsh Assembly Members. However, I shall not support the Labour motion today, as it is, to say the least, an example of double standards that is quite surprising even by this House’s standards. In common with the hon. Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden), I have spent most of today in the Welsh Grand Committee, where we discussed regional pay for a long time. I found the comments of the right hon. Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson), who is not in his place, quite surprising. He was vocal in his criticism of the concept of regional pay, yet when he was a Minister in the previous Labour Government, of course, he was responsible for bringing in regional pay in the courts service.

When I debated the matter with the new shadow Secretary of State for Wales on Radio Wales, the hon. Member for Pontypridd (Owen Smith) said that what was done to the court service was not regional pay, but zonal pay. Zonal pay is clearly acceptable to the Labour party, but not regional pay. It should be noted that the five levels of zonal pay within the service vary by 23% for people doing the same work. I thus find the Labour party’s comments and its anger on this issue surprising, given that it introduced this proposal for the service in 2007. What is more, the Labour Government did the same for Department for Work and Pensions staff back in 2003. That is why I am surprised that Labour Members view these proposals with such horror.

When the hon. Member for Derby North (Chris Williamson) calls on the Government to make a U-turn, I am absolutely staggered. How can a Government make a U-turn on a proposal to consult and to do some research? I would have thought that Members would be proud of a Government who say, “Before we enact a policy, we will do the research and ensure that we come to the table with the facts.” If those facts show a strong argument for changing the current situation, that argument can be made, but to say no to doing the research is, to say the least, extremely surprising.

Other comments made in the debate are worth mentioning. I listened very carefully to my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) and I was quite taken by his passionate argument in favour of localised pay. The key question I would ask is this. I have a constituency that depends fairly significantly on the public sector, but one that also has a comparatively low-paid economy in respect of the tourism sector. My concern is the fact that we have open borders for the movement of workers from across the European Union and that what has tended to happen in my constituency is that comparatively low-paid jobs have been filled by people from other parts of Europe who are willing to come into this country to work. I question whether, with those open borders, the expected effect of having a more local pay bargaining structure would work as my hon. Friend envisaged. That is the question I have, but I am sure that the research we undertake will show whether that is the issue or not.

We have heard a lot in the debate about Labour Members’ concern for the lower-paid public sector workers, and I share it. My only question, as someone who sat on the Welfare Reform Public Bill Committee for several weeks and contributed to many of the debates on the welfare reform agenda, is how Labour Members can make so much capital in today’s debate about their support for lower-paid public sector workers, when they were more than happy to argue in debates about the benefits cap for a regional benefits payment structure. If they genuinely support people on lower salaries and lower incomes, I wonder why they did not defend the benefit recipients in my constituency when they were more than happy to defend union members who happen to work in the public sector.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—