Workplace Pay Gaps

Gregory Campbell Excerpts

Tuesday 7th January 2025 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Roger. I thank the hon. Member for Brent East (Dawn Butler) for leading today’s debate. She has worked incredibly hard on this issue. It is good that we can discuss its effect across this United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. I wish to add a Northern Ireland perspective to the flavour of the debate, and to give some examples from Northern Ireland of where there has been a shortfall, where it has been addressed and what we can do better.

With regard to geography, ethnicity, gender and so on, the UK has witnessed, in the past and presently, pay gaps in certain industries. This debate is important to get a full perspective on the situation in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. For example, there was a large disparity in teachers’ pay in Northern Ireland, which coincided with the failure of the Northern Ireland Assembly to meet for some time. There was a clear problem of unfairness to teachers working in Northern Ireland. In April last year, a formal offer on teachers’ pay for 2021, 2022 and 2023 was accepted by Northern Ireland’s five main teaching unions. The pay settlement agreed by the Teachers’ Negotiating Committee included a clause on a starting salary of £30,000 for teachers in Northern Ireland.

That is really important because for too long the teachers in Northern Ireland had lagged behind in pay negotiations and pay awards. That 24.3% increase in starting salary is to be warmly received and it makes that salary equal to England, as it should have been for a long time. The title of this debate is “Workplace Pay Gaps” and those are for both males and females, although I will refer to where women have been disadvantaged in other ways, but there should be absolutely no pay disparity anyway. Equality for teachers in Northern Ireland has eventually been achieved after four years. It is absolutely to be welcomed, but waiting on it for four years is hardly fair.

Additionally, there have historically been issues in Northern Ireland and further afield in the United Kingdom regarding the pay gap between men and women. The Department for the Economy in Northern Ireland has revealed that, as of 2023, the overall gender pay gap in Northern Ireland stood at 7.8% in favour of males. The hon. Member for Brent East referred to that issue, and I thank her for it. It has to be addressed by companies across Northern Ireland.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

My hon. Friend and the hon. Member for Brent East (Dawn Butler) have both alluded to the gender pay gap. Whatever the justification or otherwise might have been 30, 40 or 50 years ago, when there were different roles in society for males and females in employment, does my hon. Friend agree that those days have long passed? There must now be no distinction of any kind, whether it is based on gender or on any other differential. There needs to be pay equality right across the spectrum.

[Jim Shannon]

I wholeheartedly agree. For instance, apprenticeships are available at Thales in the armament and military production line in Belfast, and young girls and ladies have the same opportunities as young fellas and men. The same applies at the shipyard and at engineering firms across Northern Ireland, especially in my constituency. I have seen the advantage of those apprenticeships. My hon. Friend is right to raise that point.

For every £1 earned by men, women earn only 92p. That has to be addressed: we need wage equality. Where employers are perhaps reluctant to provide it, the Government need to step in legislatively. The gender pay gap favours females when we consider full-time and part-time employees separately—there are gaps of 3.5% and 1.7% respectively—so there are some anomalies to be addressed.

The gender pay gap has narrowed over the years. It has decreased from 22.4% in 1987 to 8.7% in recent analysis: over 27 years, there has been a great drop in the disparity. My hon. Friend the Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell) compared the historical position with where we are today. I believe that the trend reflects ongoing efforts towards gender pay equality.

UK-wide, we have witnessed further pay disparities that certain ethnic minority groups experience in comparison with white employees. The hon. Member for Liverpool Riverside (Kim Johnson) was absolutely right to highlight that clear gap, and the clear evidential gap to be addressed. For instance, in the 10-year spell between 2012 and 2022, black, African, Caribbean and black British employees consistently earned less than their white counterparts.

Furthermore, studies by the Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency have identified pay disparities between disabled and non-disabled employees in Northern Ireland. I think the hon. Member for Brent East referred to that disparity in her speech. Goodness me! If they are doing the same job to the same ability, they should be getting the same pay. There should be no disparity just because someone happens to be in a wheelchair, have a visual or hearing disability or have a mobility issue. That cannot be ignored. For example, employees reporting fair health, which is a proxy for disability, experienced a gender pay gap—wait until you hear this one—of 16.8%. Those who reported very good or good health experienced narrower gaps of 8.1% and 8.4% respectively. There is a real gender pay gap for disabled people.

Perhaps the Minister can give us some idea whether she has had any discussions with the Minister back home. There is no doubt that much progress has been made in addressing these issues, but there is still a long way to go. There is significant work to be done to ensure full pay equity across all demographics, not just in Northern Ireland but further afield in the United Kingdom. Has the Minister had a chance to raise that issue with the Northern Ireland Assembly?

There is hope that legislation can be introduced to address these issues. I look to the Minister today for a commitment to ensuring that they are resolved. I understand that many of the issues are devolved, but the Government here have a responsibility, centrally, to ensure fairness in pay across all employment sectors.