Antisocial Behaviour

Debate between Graham P Jones and Victoria Atkins

Thursday 7th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[Graham P. Jones]

I concur with that. Indeed, I think my hon. Friend has seen an advance copy of my speech, as I want to raise a number of those issues. I will not address them directly now, except to say that, on council estates, we have moved away from having the old tenant manager and collecting rents at the door. I do not suggest we should have that now, but the system had some advantages and we have replaced it with one where there seems not to be as much supervision, which brings difficulties and an increase in antisocial behaviour.

I was not highlighting the MPs who are sitting here today, as they are clearly exceedingly concerned about antisocial behaviour in their constituencies. It is worth mentioning that this week we voted on the police funding settlement, which is at the heart of all this. I do not think there is any escape from the fact that if police numbers are reduced—I will go on to comment on other aspects of the police and criminal justice system—police presence is reduced and of course that will have a detrimental impact. As my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North said, where there is a vacuum in policing, there will be an opportunity for those with a malign or malevolent attitude to others to behave in a way that is not conducive to the wellbeing of the victim, the neighbourhood or the community. We therefore have to put that right. It is wrong that the Government have cut policing so significantly, as the consequences are considerable. I asked my local police and crime commissioner in Lancashire, Clive Grunshaw, who is doing a very good job, about this situation. He said that he has lost a considerable number of officers. He has lost 800 officers in Lancashire and 450 members of police staff—that is never mentioned, but it diverts resources.

In 2002, or thereabouts, the Labour Government under Tony Blair introduced neighbourhood policing. After seeing rising crime year on year, decade on decade, we began to reverse that cycle, no more so than in terms of antisocial behaviour and low-level crime, with the introduction of neighbourhood policing. That was a positive, progressive approach to some of these issues. I know that we must have sanctions, and I will address those in a moment, but at the heart of reducing antisocial behaviour was neighbourhood policing.

I often talk about Peel ward, which I represented as a councillor before I came here. In 2002, it had 120 anti- social behaviour incidents a month. The neighbouring Spring Hill ward had slightly more—it had nearly 130 a month. We can only imagine having that many incidents, and we must remember that the wards are small in my constituency. There was constant harassment of residents, day after day. When neighbourhood policing was introduced in Lancashire—it came in in my ward at the very beginning of the roll-out—we began to see huge reductions in antisocial behaviour. Within about three years I think we were down to 10 or 15 incidents a month of recorded antisocial behaviour, which is 10% or 11% of what it had been. The residents breathed a sigh of relief, but they were angry. I remember holding a public meeting in Accrington at the council offices just prior to the introduction of neighbourhood policing. The room could hold about 140 people, but nearly 200 turned up and we could not get everyone in. It was dangerous, as people were packed at the back and pushing to get in, and the anger was incredible.

I do not want to return to those days. I do not want to return to the days when I got a telephone call after midnight and was so sick of antisocial behaviour that I just rocked up out of the house and went round to a neighbour’s house where there was a gang of 20 yobs, and confronted them myself on Bold Street. I think there is a video tape somewhere of me confronting them. Residents thought it was the end of it when their councillor was going out to confront these yobs after midnight. I confronted another group of 25 at the bottom of my street and one of them threatened to glass me there and then. That was where we were in 2002. When neighbourhood policing was introduced, it was a progressive answer that caused a huge reduction in antisocial behaviour. It was not, though, only about the police presence on the ground.

I say openly—my constituents may be watching—that I have asked my local police and crime commissioner to increase the police precept by as much as he possibly can. That is my view, and I am going to tell the truth. We have to put police officers back on the beat and get policing back to a neighbourhood level. If the Government want to continue with their cuts, all we will be able to do by increasing the precept is replace officers we have lost.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Victoria Atkins)]

If the hon. Gentleman is going to ask his local police and crime commissioner to make the sort of changes he is suggesting—of course, he is absolutely right to do so as the local MP—will he also ask him why he is keeping £37.9 million in reserves in a savings account, and why those reserves have increased by £17.8 million since 2011? He is getting the money, but it seems he is not spending it.

[Graham P. Jones]

Let me explain to the Minister how finance works. Most public authorities usually keep back around 5% to 10%—that is the Audit Commission’s advice—because there are peaks and troughs in what they pay out each month. They need to have money there in case what they pay out rises. There is also a capital investment programme. The Minister may not know, but I know, that Blackpool police station is crumbling and needs replacing. The police and crime commissioner needs to know that he has the money. If he is prudent—he is a Labour police and crime commissioner, so he is prudent —he will be saving, year on year, to replace Blackpool police station. [Interruption.] The Minister is chuntering, but Blackpool North and Cleveleys is a Conservative constituency. If she does not want Blackpool police station to be done up, she should stand up at the Dispatch Box and say so.

[Victoria Atkins]

rose—

[Graham P. Jones]

I will give way to the Minister, and if she does not want Blackpool police station doing up, she should just say so.

[Victoria Atkins]

I visited Blackpool North on Friday and sat in a meeting with some of the people who make the most difference in the local area, including my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard) and the local police officers, community groups and councillors. We were not talking about buildings; we were talking about the great work that officers, community groups and the council do to keep that area safe. I concentrate on people rather than bricks and mortar.

[Graham P. Jones]

I think that is what I have talked about so far. The Minister had no answer to my question; it seems she does not really care about Blackpool police station.

[Victoria Atkins]

rose—

[Mark Menzies (Fylde) (Con)]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Victoria Atkins)]

It has been a pleasure to be here, although it has been difficult to hear some of the accounts that hon. Members across the House have shared of experiences that their constituents have suffered at the hands of those who act antisocially. I join the thanks and congratulations to the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson) on securing the debate. We share a television news programme, so I know of the work she does in her local area. I join her in thanking the officers and all those involved in looking for Libby Squire. We are all conscious, of course, that it is a live investigation, but our thoughts are with the family.

I thank hon. Members for participating in this debate, particularly my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton West (Chris Green), as well as the hon. Members for Hyndburn (Graham P. Jones), for East Lothian (Martin Whitfield), for Bedford (Mohammad Yasin), for Mitcham and Morden (Siobhain McDonagh) and for Paisley and Renfrewshire South (Mhairi Black), and I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Fylde (Mark Menzies) for his intervention.

As we have heard, antisocial behaviour can have a significant impact on both individuals and communities, and it can affect people in their own homes and our public spaces, which everyone should be free to enjoy safely. Left unchecked, persistent antisocial behaviour, whether it involves littering, vandalism, public drunkenness, aggressive dogs, noise, threats or abuse, can have a debilitating impact on people’s quality of life. As I say, hon. Members have taken care to describe various examples, and I am sure we were all perturbed to hear about the experience in Hyndburn of the noise in the middle of the night. Sadly, such offending can lead to a journey to even more serious crimes, as outlined by the hon. Member for Mitcham and Morden.

The police and local authorities have available to them a range of powers and actions. We tend to focus on the 2014 Act, but the police and councils also have general operational powers. For example, the police in the constituency of the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North have been working alongside Hull City Council to install 17 CCTV cameras on the Orchard Park estate to drive down the number of crimes. I understand also that the police have been working with communities to make sure they feel safe, including by visiting schools to speak to pupils about the impact of behaving antisocially. That is not part of the 2014 Act, but it is part of their general powers and actions.

The hon. Lady also mentioned the use of drones by Lincolnshire police. These are proving to be useful in many ways. Obviously, Lincolnshire is a vast rural area, and my police and crime commissioner, Marc Jones, is pleased with their use in tackling hare coursing, which is not a form of antisocial behaviour that has been mentioned today, but believe you me its impact on local communities is frightening and intimidating. It might be an example of one of the more serious types of antisocial behaviour.

I am pleased to say that under the 2014 Act we have reformed the tools and powers available to local areas. Mention was made of ASBOs. Initially, they were of use, but they became a badge of honour among some protagonists, which is why the coalition Government reviewed the law on antisocial behaviour and introduced the 2014 Act.

[Graham P. Jones]

It strikes me that the point the Minister has just made is a very middle-class view. What do working-class communities think about ASBOs? Were they asked if they were beneficial before they were taken away?

[Victoria Atkins]

I am talking about the children subject to them. Among them, they were becoming a badge of honour, which is why we increased the range of powers under the 2014 Act not just to target individuals behaving antisocially, but to give much wider powers to protect whole communities and public spaces, which I will come on to in a moment.

We had an urgent question this week on knife crime prevention orders, which are a very targeted form of preventive order that we are introducing through the Offensive Weapons Bill to help to catch the small cohort of children who may be susceptible to knife crime before they start accumulating criminal convictions or causing even more harm in the community. I very much hope that the orders will enjoy the support of the House when the Bill returns.

--- Later in debate ---

[Graham P. Jones]

rose—

[Victoria Atkins]

I am about to come on to Lancashire, but I would be happy to give way to the hon. Gentleman—[Interruption.] I am sorry. I am getting conflicting requests. I am being asked to speed up. I must mention Lancashire, because I was delighted to visit it last week. My hon. Friend the Member for South Ribble (Seema Kennedy) and I met the chief constable in Hutton, and my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard) and I met community leaders. My hon. Friend the Member for Morecambe and Lunesdale (David Morris) and I met people in Morecambe to discuss crime and policing issues in the local area. Lancashire does have £37.9 million in reserves, and that has increased by £17.8 million since 2011, which is higher than the national average—

[Graham P. Jones]

rose—

[Victoria Atkins]

I am not sure that the hon. Gentleman had that information to hand. I will happily give way to him.

[Graham P. Jones]

The police and crime commissioner for Lancashire is watching this debate, and he has just sent me a very informative message to say that he has published his reserves, which are actually £25 million. I ask the Minister to correct the record at the Dispatch Box.

[Victoria Atkins]

I am happy to say that the reserves are £37.9 million as of March last year. If the PCC has decided to spend some of his savings, the Government welcome that, because we give money to PCCs to spend on policing in the local area, not so that it can sit in savings accounts. I will not trouble Members with the figures for Bedfordshire, the Met or South Wales, because I know that the House is eager to move on to the Adjournment debate.

Turning to education, we are conscious of the role of alternative provision when it comes to county lines. I hope that hon. Members know that we are expecting a report from Edward Timpson on alternative provision, because we are conscious of the impact that it can have on serious violence. I am pleased that we have raised the age at which children can leave education from 16 to 18, but I am aware that some children still fall through the net, which is why the report will be so informative and important.

I am extremely grateful to all Members for their contributions to this debate. Antisocial behaviour still affects communities—

Venezuela: Political Situation

Debate between Graham P Jones and Victoria Atkins

Tuesday 5th September 2017 Westminster Hall

[Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the political situation in Venezuela.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer, and I am grateful for this timely debate. I do not often speak about Latin America, but it is registered in the “Dod’s” directory as one of my interests. I am a long-standing member of the all-party parliamentary British-Latin America group, as well as chairman of the newly formed APPG on Venezuela.

As I said, I am grateful for this opportunity to speak on the situation in Venezuela. Latin America is an area of the world where Britain has a myopic view—partly due to the continent’s Spanish and Portuguese colonial past, and partly due to its own sense of history in relation to those two European nations and, of course, the Vatican. It is in British interests that there is a change of outlook on South America, Latin America and Venezuela, particularly given our exit from the European Union and the need to build new international bridges. Latin America is an important part of the planet that we should be mindful of in protecting the wellbeing of this fragile place that we all inhabit. I appreciate that our South American relationships have been somewhat skewed—rightly so, in my opinion—in terms of protecting the UK sovereignty of the Falkland Islands.

Although the issue of Venezuela has been a concern for a while, it landed on my constituency doorstep when constituent Andrea Adamson came to see me in June. Her son, Adam Cowell, of Oswaldtwistle, died of cocaine poisoning due to its purity. That unnecessary death in Hyndburn recently led the local coroner, Michael Singleton, to say:

“I can tell you from the inquests that I have recently conducted, and those that are going to be conducted by me within the next few weeks, that this is reaching epidemic proportions.”

He said:

“I am becoming increasingly concerned with the number of young people who are dying from cocaine toxicity.”

In relation to Adam’s case, the pathologist said:

“At the time of post mortem there was 8.4 micrograms of cocaine per millilitre of blood.

That is very high, anything over one is potentially fatal.”

The coroner said:

“I have been doing this job for 25 years and this has reached phenomenal levels.”

Mr Singleton went on to make a searing criticism of the UK’s failure to tackle the cocaine epidemic. His comments are online.

This so-called party drug has been responsible for the deaths of at least 17 young people in the Lancashire district in the last nine months. I promised Andrea that I would raise the issue of cocaine dealing, trafficking and production locally, nationally and internationally, for they are all part of one deadly supply chain.

This was a Daily Telegraph headline as long ago as June 2008: “President Hugo Chávez’s Venezuela has become the key trafficking route for most of the cocaine sold on Britain’s streets”. The report stated:

“Anti-drugs officials estimate that more than 50 per cent of all the cocaine consumed in Britain has been trafficked through Venezuela—under the ‘revolutionary’ regime of Mr Chávez. The figure could be as high as two thirds.”

In 1998, the last year before Mr Chávez came to office, Venezuela’s security forces made 11,581 drug-related arrests. By 2005, that had plummeted to just over 1,000, and the figure remains low to this day. That journalistic piece highlighted the Venezuelan gateway for cocaine into Europe and the United Kingdom. It alleged that Mr Chávez’s Administration had

“a longstanding relationship with Marxist rebels from the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC). These guerrillas fund their insurgency by smuggling drugs”.

Back in 2008, The Guardian reported from FARC sources in Colombia

“that powerful elements within the Venezuelan state apparatus have forged a strong working relationship with Farc”

and

“that Farc and Venezuelan state officials operated actively together on the ground, where military and drug-trafficking activities coincide.”

The allegations were that the Chávez regime, alongside the Venezuelan military, supported the FARC rebels with military equipment in exchange for cocaine.

In 2012, The New York Times used radar information—when we look at the radar maps of flights out of Venezuela, we see that it is remarkable where they go—to show that Venezuela was

“one of the world’s busiest transit hubs for the movement of cocaine”,

with FARC Colombian guerrilla rebels able to operate “with…impunity.” The drug is coming from Venezuelan airports, not from inside Colombia. The flights by and large go to Honduras; it is going to the Caribbean and on to the United Kingdom.

In 2014, Reuters reported that the “Venezuela drug trade rings alarm bells”. It reported on a major French seizure:

“Hidden in a large ochre-colored container, the 1.4 tonnes of cocaine got past two dozen army checkpoints during a 500-mile journey from the Colombian border to the Venezuelan capital.

The drugs were stored for several days at the Simon Bolivar International Airport outside Caracas, then placed in 31 suitcases with false name-tags and put on an Air France flight to Paris on Sept. 10, 2013.

Ten days later, French police announced the biggest cocaine haul in their history—the shipment was worth about $270 million—after a meticulous operation involving French, British, Spanish and Dutch authorities.

The foreign agents kept Venezuelan authorities in the dark.”

The problem for the Minister and the Government is that the flow of drugs from Venezuela into this country continues unabated to this day. Only recently, during our general election, Spanish police seized more than 2 metric tonnes of cocaine—£1 billion-worth—from a ship with a Venezuelan flag in the Atlantic ocean.

There are ample stories of cocaine seizures, but the UK and EU Governments seem to have little success in stemming drug trafficking from South America and Venezuela in particular and to be unable to take firm action against a corrupt narco regime. The UK Government have had enough signals. Mr Chávez halted co-operation with the United States Drug Enforcement Administration way back in 2005.

Last year, the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime—UNODC—stated that Venezuela has become more important in recent years as trafficking organisations move Colombian cocaine overland across a porous border and take advantage of the busy maritime traffic between the coast and the islands of the Caribbean and Europe.

In the UK, we have seen rising purity levels for cocaine, along with ease of supply and vibrant demand. My constituents and their families are bearing the brunt of that. Our own National Crime Agency identifies Venezuela as a producer country and a major transit country for cocaine coming to this country.

Early last month, The Times ran a warning headline: “Pure cocaine fuels rise in drug deaths”. Deaths linked to cocaine jumped by 16% between 2015 and 2016 to a record high of 6.4 deaths per million. That sharp rise was widely reported across all media. The Office for National Statistics report said:

“The National Crime Agency reports that there was a significant increase in both crack and powder cocaine purity at all levels in 2016, including user-level, which may partly explain the increase in deaths relating to cocaine.”

A decade on, little seems to have changed. The Chavistas continue, through the new President, Nicolás Maduro, to facilitate and funnel cocaine to the west. Last November, two of Nicolás Maduro’s nephews were convicted in a New York court of attempting to smuggle 815 kg—about £350 million-worth—of cocaine into the United States. Throughout that trial, details emerged suggesting that high-level Venezuelan officials had serious involvement in the drug trade. The court heard that the President’s nephews intended to use the presidential aeroplane hangar at Caracas’ international airport to move the drugs. It also heard that “government executives” and the Cartel of the Suns were the “only ones who worked” in drug trafficking in Venezuela, and that they were

“in charge of fumigating [eliminating] anyone who tried”

to get involved in the drugs trade in Venezuela.

Venezuela is a narco-state and the UK cannot have a policy of “do nothing”. The US Administration have acted. They have imposed sanctions on Venezuelan Vice-President Tareck El Aissami for facilitating shipments of narcotics on board planes leaving a Venezuelan airbase, as well as controlling drug routes through Venezuelan ports. Since appointing Mr El Aissami to the post, Mr Maduro has granted him expanded powers, including over the economy and expropriating businesses. The Guardian reported:

“Venezuela’s top convicted drug trafficker, Walid Makled…said he paid bribes through El Aissami’s brother to officials so they could turn a blind eye to cocaine shipments that proliferated in Venezuela over the past two decades of”—

so-called “socialist rule.” In March, the US Administration also announced sanctions against eight corrupt Venezuelan Supreme Court justices for stripping the opposition-controlled legislature of its powers.

Mr El Aissami joins a long list of senior Venezuelan Government officials who have been sanctioned or indicted by US law enforcement for complicity in drug trafficking to the United States. That includes Minister Néstor Reverol; the former head of military intelligence, Hugo Carvajal; sitting Governor, Henry Rangel Silva; former Interior and Justice Minister, Ramón Rodríguez Chacín; and several others. It also includes Diosdado Cabello, vice-president of the United Socialist Party of Venezuela—Maduro’s party—and an alleged member of the Cartel of the Suns.

Before briefly turning to the economic turmoil, which has been widely reported and I am sure colleagues want to speak about, I ask the Minister why it has been left to the US Administration to take action against this rogue regime, which has been operating with impunity for many years. When will the UK Government look into this issue in the interests of my constituents and UK citizens, and publish their findings? What measures can the UK Government take independently, as well as with the EU, on implementing individual sanctions? Finally, will the Foreign and Commonwealth Office facilitate a much-needed parliamentary visit to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime?

[Victoria Atkins (Louth and Horncastle) (Con)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for eloquently setting out the woeful conditions in Venezuela and the very human impact that that regime has on people’s lives not only in Venezuela but in this country as well. In my previous life I prosecuted serious organised crime gangs, including drug traffickers. Will he join me in wishing that all Members of Parliament, including his leader, would condemn the Venezuelan regime and spread the message that anyone buying cocaine in this country is supporting organised crime?

[Graham Stringer (in the Chair)]

Order. As it is the first day back, may I just remind Members that interventions should be brief? A large number of people wish to speak in this debate and there is limited time, so I ask people to observe that rule.