High Speed Rail (Scotland)

Graeme Morrice Excerpts

Tuesday 6th November 2012 Westminster Hall

[Sheila Gilmore]

I thank the right hon. Lady for her intervention. It would certainly be an interesting prospect if we were to be placed at the forefront of this. I agree that the connection with the debate about air travel and airports is also important. We should have a very clear, unified transport policy, not only for transport reasons but for environmental reasons, yet at times it feels as though there is a disconnect there. When it comes to people’s travel from Scotland, I am sure that if we did achieve high-speed rail in the near, not the very distant, future, we would see a huge transfer of both business and leisure travel to rail. That would be highly beneficial.

If there is to be a study, I have some questions for the Minister. Who is carrying out the study that we were told is to take place? Is it HS2 Ltd, the Department, or another external organisation? When are we likely to get a report with the information? That is important, especially in terms of timing, because it will determine whether the additional sections of line to Edinburgh and Glasgow could be incorporated in phase 2 of the project. Phase 2 is the part that involves the building of the Y network from Birmingham to Leeds and to Manchester. Broadening the scope of phase 2 would be critical in ensuring that the benefits of High Speed 2 are realised sooner rather than later. The alternative is that what I have described becomes phase 3, which would be very disappointing.

The estimated completion date of phase 1 is 2026. For the existing phase 2, it is 2033-34. If building to Scotland were to be a completely separate phase, on that sort of time scale we would not see the network reach Scotland until well into the 2040s. From our perspective, and in terms of growing the Scottish economy, that would be extremely disappointing.

We know that the Secretary of State intends to publish plans for the route between Birmingham and Manchester and Leeds by the end of this year. A recent written answer revealed that the Minister wants to bring forward consultation on phase 2 from 2014 to 2013. I warmly welcome all that, but I argue that the plans to build to Scotland should be published and consulted on, so that, at the very least, that section of the route can be included in the hybrid Bill for phase 2. I acknowledge that planning is likely to be at a fairly early stage, but there some key issues about the route to Scotland on which I hope that the Minister will be able to give us some reply, or at least an undertaking that he and his Department will examine that.

One issue is whether building to Scotland would involve two separate lines—one from Manchester to Glasgow on the west coast and one from Leeds to Edinburgh—or one line, probably from Manchester, that would split into a further Y in southern Scotland and link to both Edinburgh and Glasgow. That is already in place for certain rail journeys, and has been for a long time, as anyone who travels north or south on the sleeper will know. That mechanism enables Edinburgh and Glasgow to link to not only London on conventional-speed rail, but many other parts of the country, and it is a big boon for many people who travel that way.

Will the stations in the existing phase 2 be through-stations or terminuses, as planned for Birmingham? I would argue that through-stations are vastly preferable, because each service to and from Scotland could call at stations on the line, which increases connectivity and reduces the need for additional point-to-point services or people having to change to complete their journey.

At this stage, it is important to acknowledge that regardless of when the high-speed network is extended to Edinburgh and Glasgow, passengers in Scotland will benefit as soon as the first phase of the project is complete. Sometimes, the impression is given that high-speed rail is irrelevant to us at that stage, but if the line from London to Birmingham is connected to existing lines, it will allow trains to continue beyond Birmingham at conventional speeds, which could cut journey times from Scotland to London by half an hour. I hope that Scotland will be part of phase 2, but even without that or a phase 3, journey times could be down to three and half hours. Such reductions in journey times are critical when we are looking at the best methods of travel. To return to the environmental issue, it is the kind of difference that will make people realise that rail is by far the better way to travel. It will also fit in with our business needs, because travel will still be from city centre to city centre.

Will the Minister confirm that, from the completion of phase 1, through-running trains will go to both Glasgow and Edinburgh? HS2 will be linked to the west coast main line at Lichfield, and traditionally trains on that line serve only Glasgow, not Edinburgh. We are aware that there are capacity constraints on the west coast main line, but it would be frustrating if Edinburgh had to wait for the completion of phase 2 to benefit from through-running trains. We are not only talking about Edinburgh, but the entire east coast; people coming from further north would also be able to make use of such a connection.

I promised my hon. Friend the Member for Glenrothes that I would say a little about the circumstances that would arise should the referendum result in independence. The HS2 project, probably more than any other, encapsulates why we are better together. The Union means that Ministers in Westminster have a responsibility to look out for the interests of people in Scotland alongside those of people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. That is demonstrated by the decision to facilitate through-running to Scotland from the completion of phase 1 and by the Secretary of State’s stated ambition to drive down journey times further in future. Should Scotland separate from the rest of the UK, it is possible that a benevolent Government in Westminster might retain those commitments, but that is not guaranteed. If Ministers decided that they would not fulfil those commitments, there would be no formal means of redress though, for example, voting against governing parties at the next general election. There would not even be forums such as Westminster Hall where Members representing Scotland could directly raise and debate the issues.

On a purely practical level, I cannot envision the Government of a separate Scotland persuading Ministers in the UK to pay for the hundreds of miles of expensive, high-speed track necessary to link Leeds and Manchester to the Scottish border. I believe that that is the point my hon. Friend wanted to make. UK Ministers would probably expect a Scottish Government to pay for that in addition to what would be required in Scotland—a huge additional expense.

[Graeme Morrice (Livingston) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this important debate. She makes a powerful argument for the completion of the line to Edinburgh and Glasgow. On the latter point, does she take the view that an independent Scottish Government would not have the financial resources to ensure that the high-speed rail link continued to Edinburgh and Glasgow?

[Sheila Gilmore]

I think that is an extremely likely scenario. We are often faced with proponents of separation suggesting that nothing will change—we can keep the Queen, the pound and all sorts of things—so they will no doubt tell people that they can keep high-speed rail, but that is most unlikely to happen.

Even if the UK Government decided to build the sections between Manchester and the border, or the Scottish Government decided to pay for them, what would happen if there was a concerted campaign against the route and local people decided that they did not want the line to cross their communities? In such circumstances, why should a UK Government expend the political capital necessary to overcome the objections? We could again find ourselves unable to influence the debate.

I do not expect the Minister to say too much about independence, but I would like answers to the questions on the study, the possible route and through-running to Edinburgh. When will the study report? Will any proposed route be incorporated into the hybrid Bill for phase 2? What is the likely route to Scotland? Will the stations in the current phase 2 be through-stations or not? Will there be through-running trains to both Glasgow and Edinburgh when services start after the completion of phase 1 in 2026?

--- Later in debate ---

[Graeme Morrice]

I welcome many of the Minister’s comments. Forgive me for raising independence again—obviously it is something that those north of the border will be focused on for the next two years in the run-up to the referendum—but does he share our view that, in the event of Scotland becoming independent, HS2 would be in serious jeopardy in relation to the rail links continuing to Edinburgh and Glasgow?

[Norman Baker]

I do not think that the population north of the border will vote for independence, so I hope that that is a hypothetical question. I would say not that HS2 is in serious danger, but that it unnecessarily raises a question mark over something that is not there. That in turn brings an air of uncertainty over HS2, which is also not presently there.

We are working closely with the Scottish Government throughout this year to understand how HS2 might be extended further north. The coalition agreement makes it clear that we want a genuinely national network. We see phases 1 and 2 of the High Speed 2 project as the best way to make progress towards that goal. None the less, there is a real case for examining whether we should go beyond the Y network, as the Secretary of State said at the Conservative party conference last month. The Department is launching a study on ways to get fast journeys further north and to Scotland and to ensure that the north-east benefits, too.

The hon. Member for Edinburgh East asked me a couple of questions about the study and when it would report. The study will involve departmental HS2 officials, who will start a process of work with the Scottish Government and northern English regions better to understand and articulate transport needs north of the Y network. The study will set out a remit for any future work, using as a starting point completion of the Y network. There is likely to be a focus on improvements in capacity and journey time. Once the study is complete early in the new year, we will take stock of the results to ensure that we have a full understanding of the transport needs north of the Y network. We will then have the right base from which we can consider scoping out broad options for bringing high-speed rail further north and to Scotland.

The study will not start with any preconceptions but will be open to all options that offer good value for money to the taxpayer. That may include a full high-speed solution, upgrades to existing infrastructure, or a combination of the two.

The hon. Lady also asked about journeys to Edinburgh, which she of course is interested in given where her constituency is sited. Let me make it clear that as soon as phase 1 is complete, there will be a link on to the west coast main line from the new high-speed line, which will enable services to be run from Glasgow and Edinburgh on the high-speed network using a bifurcation at Carstairs. That is perfectly possible in operational terms as soon as the link to Birmingham is completed in phase 1.

Our plans for HS2 do not mean that we will stop investing in and improving our current transport network. Generally, our investment programme is the biggest since the 19th century. We fully appreciate the need to enhance our network and improve links between England and Scotland. The inter-city express programme will deliver a brand-new fleet of trains for the east coast main line that will start operating in 2018 and offer faster, greener, higher capacity and better quality services well ahead of the Y network being completed. The trains will boost fast-line capacity from Scotland into King’s Cross during peak hours and cut journey times between London and Edinburgh by 12 minutes, with even larger gains for journeys to Dundee, Aberdeen, Perth and Inverness.

A major factor in our decision to press ahead with the IEP was its capacity to enable the continuation of through journeys to and from northerly destinations. On top of that, we have announced a £240 million upgrade of the east coast main line, which will greatly improve journeys between Scotland and England.

On the west coast route, the long-awaited new Pendolino carriages have started serving the Birmingham to Scotland corridor. The route will also benefit from an upgrade to its power systems that will enable more passenger and freight electric trains to operate.

The Manchester to Scotland route is also due to get new trains, with delivery starting in December 2013 and completion by May 2014. On the east coast, a new timetable introduced last May increased the number of through services between Scotland and London—it includes the Flying Scotsman—linking Edinburgh and King’s Cross with a fast service that can bring Scotland’s key business leaders into the heart of London in four hours, arriving before 10 o’clock each day.

We are also investing in stations north of the border. As part of the Department’s sponsored access for all programme, which falls within my portfolio, £41 million has been allocated to making at least 17 stations across the Scottish network accessible to disabled passengers. We are also investing more than £6 million up to 2014 across a wide range of Scottish stations to make smaller access improvements.

In conclusion, fast, reliable connectivity between Scotland, London and the cities of the midlands and the north is a crucial component of a successful economy, and we are investing to bring that about. High-speed rail not only supports thousands of jobs in Scotland and throughout the UK but gives us a once-in-a-generation opportunity to reshape the economic geography of the whole country, by bringing our key cities closer together and helping to bridge an economic divide that has defied solution for decades. This is a national scheme in the national interest being delivered by a national Government.

I warmly welcome the political consensus on HS2 across the three main parties on the basis that it will help to ensure that the planning and construction of this transformational scheme is carried through to completion. Realising the full benefits of high-speed rail for Scotland is crucial to the economic well-being of the whole country, and we will work with our partners in Scotland to achieve that. If there are any outstanding matters that I have not been able to address, I will ensure that my colleague, the Minister of State for Transport, will write to the hon. Lady with the answers.