Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill

Geraint Davies Excerpts

Monday 20th May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon]

My hon. Friend is right: we desperately need that protection.

Other questions are likely to arise, such as whether the expression of a view on the superiority of opposite-sex marriage to same-sex marriage will be regarded as resulting in detriment to a particular group of people—namely, those who are homosexual or who are raised in families in which the parents are in a same-sex marriage. The answer is quite possibly yes. There is therefore likely to be a chilling effect on freedom of speech in particular contexts. The case of Smith has already shown a marked move in that direction. He was, as the hon. Member for Gainsborough (Mr Leigh) said, deemed to have discriminated against same-sex couples after he wrote a comment on his Facebook wall. Surely hon. Members do not intend there to be such a chilling effect on freedom of speech.

One of the ways in which this can best be addressed is by putting the Secretary of State’s reassurances in the Bill.

[Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Jim Shannon]

I am sorry but I cannot.

That can be done via new clause 4, which would ensure that freedom of expression is protected by stating that discussions of same-sex marriages cannot be regarded as unlawful discrimination for the purposes of the Equality Act 2010. I commend the new clause to the House and ask Members to support it.

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I ask my right hon. Friend the Minister to reflect on two issues between now and when the Bill goes to another place. First, on the guidance given in schools, if the Bill is enacted, Church of England schools will, of course, fulfil the duty to teach about the factual nature of marriage in its new legally redefined form. However, there is uncertainty about how that will interact with the continuing need for schools to reflect their religious ethos in their sex and relationship education. All we are suggesting—there should not be a great divide on this—is that in order to ensure that schools can continue to teach an understanding of marriage that is consistent with their religious foundations, this Bill should amend the Education Act 1996 to ensure that any guidance issued by the Secretary of State must take account of the religious character of the school. That is not asking for much, but it will give clarity and I hope that my right hon. Friend will reflect on it.

[Geraint Davies]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Sir Tony Baldry]

No, because others want to get in.

My right hon. Friend the Minister, who supports the Bill, will not want it to have unintended consequences six or nine months or a year down the line. That would not help anyone.

Secondly, reasonable expressions of opinions or beliefs on the nature of marriage ought not to be the subject of claims against individuals under existing discrimination or harassment provisions in the Equality Act. As my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough (Mr Leigh) has pointed out, some high-profile cases have highlighted the potential risk in the workplace, and I do not think that any hon. or right hon. Member feels comfortable about the details of such cases. All we are suggesting is that if the Equality Act were amended to put it beyond doubt that someone’s expression of an opinion on or belief in traditional marriage did not of itself—I accept entirely that context and the way in which views are expressed are important—amount to discrimination or harassment of another, that will provide reassurance and a degree of legal protection for both employers and employees who express their views in a reasonable way.

I hope that my right hon. Friend the Minister will agree that those suggestions will ensure that the Bill, if enacted, will not cause division in the country—nobody wants that—and that it will work. I hope he will not say that everything is covered, but that he will reflect on today’s contributions and that, when the Bill goes to another place, he will give the specific clarity and reassurance needed to help improve the Bill, from anyone’s point of view, if it is passed.

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[Kate Green]

The hon. Lady is right about our concerns about unwarranted delay. That is why I tabled the manuscript amendment this morning. It enables us to move forward and reach a proper conclusion much more swiftly.

While we support the principle of opposite-sex civil partnerships, we agree with the Government that the issues should be properly reviewed before Parliament reaches a decision. Indeed, we say they should have been reviewed already.

[Geraint Davies]

I agree with my hon. Friend. Does she agree that there is a large, and potentially massively increasing, constituency of people who may be interested in this, in particular couples with children, who have not chosen to make the jump into marriage but who might welcome a civil partnership? If we are to go along this path, we need to get things costed and get the detail right so that it fits their particular needs. We should therefore carry out the review and not delay equal-sex marriage.