Sewage Pollution

Debate between George Eustice and Rebecca Pow

Tuesday 6th September 2022 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

Our Environment Act addresses all the substantive points that the hon. Gentleman raised. As I said in my statement, Ofwat is currently consulting on an ability to regulate the dividends that companies pay and to link that to their environmental performance.

I would simply repeat that this is the first Government to prioritise this issue. These are long-term challenges. We could argue that the coalition Government, and Governments before them, could have acted on this issue and had a different strategic policy statement. There were Liberal Democrats in that Government. They chose to prioritise other issues, such as the alternative vote and Lords reform.

[Rebecca Pow (Taunton Deane) (Con)]

I will cry in a minute! Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is this Government who have prioritised this issue of tackling sewage discharges, with the monitoring, the reporting and the big investigation under way; and that, contrary to what we have heard from some Members, the Liberal Democrats actually voted against all those measures in the Environment Act? So they could have helped.

Crucially, would my right hon. Friend, who has himself done so much on this issue in the Department, agree that what is important now is that the regulator uses the power it has and uses its new directions; that the EA takes forward prosecutions following this intensive investigation; and that the water companies do not pay huge salaries if they cannot demonstrate that their house is in order?

[George Eustice]

I commend my hon. Friend for her role in progressing this agenda and for the work that she did on the Environment Act, which sets out all the new powers that we need to address this challenge. She is absolutely right: we introduced powers under the Act to give Ofwat new abilities to scrutinise and to change dividend awards. It is consulting on measures to do that now. It is because of the work of my hon. Friend and others in government and in the Department that we have the powers under the Environment Act to finally tackle this long-standing challenge.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between George Eustice and Rebecca Pow

Thursday 28th October 2021 Commons Chamber

[Rebecca Pow]

What was the question? [Laughter.]

[George Eustice]

I, too, am regularly contacted by schools in my constituency raising concerns around plastics. We have banned certain single-use plastics, we have introduced levies on carrier bags, and our extended producer responsibility scheme will reduce plastics further.

Exiting the European Union (Agriculture)

Debate between George Eustice and Rebecca Pow

Monday 18th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

No, I do not. Having worked in DEFRA for five and a half years, I have tremendous admiration and respect for all those people. Although they work very hard through the night, somebody will mark and check their work the next day. That is how our civil service works, and it has made a sterling effort to make sure we have all these regulations in order.

As a general rule, almost every regulation of these two statutory instruments substitutes “Secretary of State” for “European Commission”. These regulations are not complicated but rather straightforward. We often hear a lot about so-called Henry VIII powers in such debates, and there is a suspicion that, through the use of statutory instruments, we might be making changes to primary legislation that should not be made.

In truth, the most pernicious use of a Henry VIII power in modern times has been section 2(2) of the European Communities Act 1972, which has run rampant through whole pieces of primary legislation, even important flagship Acts that predate our membership of the European Union. We are in a rather odd situation in debating on the Floor of the House whether it is okay to change “European Commission” to “Secretary of State”, as the original powers implied by these statutory instruments were imposed by the European Union without any debate in this House, typically through either an implementing Act or a delegated Act, and therefore with little or no scrutiny by the European Parliament and often with little or no scrutiny by the European Council. The role of this Parliament, if it was lucky, was to receive an explanatory memorandum but, by and large, only ever to receive letters to the European Scrutiny Committee advising on what the European Union had done to us.

Nevertheless, this is what taking back control means. It means that our Parliament, for once, is starting to take an interest in these matters, rather than leaving them to the European Union.

[Rebecca Pow (Taunton Deane) (Con)]

I pay enormous tribute to my hon. Friend. I was his Parliamentary Private Secretary when he was an Agriculture Minister, and I went through a great amount of this important work with him. On organic standards, is it not the case that we very much see ourselves as setting the bar not just nationally but across Europe and across the world, that we have influenced Europe on these standards and that we ought to keep these standards as high, if not higher, in leaving?

[George Eustice]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. Of course, that is exactly what the regulations are about. We have had some influence on the organics regulations. Indeed, when I first became Agriculture Minister, something called the organics dossier was going through the European Parliament, and it concluded that journey only around six or nine months ago. Along with the smarter rules for safer food dossier, it became something of an internal joke about an interminable debate taking place in the European Union. In the end, we managed to get that agreement into something that was satisfactory to us, although it meant that not much had changed.

Finally, let me recognise something in the statutory instrument related to the control of imports. As the shadow Minister said, we are indeed ready to replace the EU trade control and expert system with a new UK system that has been in development in DEFRA for at least the past nine months. There has been a prototype version for several months and it will be ready to replace TRACES from the point at which we leave the European Union. I welcome the Minister’s point about the recognition of existing EU logos and standards for a 21-month period. Of course, we all hope that the European Union will do the honourable and sensible thing and reciprocate.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between George Eustice and Rebecca Pow

Thursday 7th July 2016 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

Food prices are driven by a range of factors, most importantly energy prices, developments in weather around the world and exchange rates. Those are the key drivers of our food prices. I have always made clear that while food prices go up and down—they are down 7% over the past two years—they are driven by bigger events than EU membership.

[Rebecca Pow (Taunton Deane) (Con)]

Many farmers and landowners are about to sign higher-level stewardship contracts, but there is a dilemma for Natural England. Many are 10-year contracts and in these uncertain EU times they are being put on hold. Will the Minister give assurances that these precious pieces of environmental biodiversity will not be at risk and that something will happen to protect them?

[George Eustice]

My hon. Friend puts her finger on an important point, which is that there will be areas and elements where we need continuity. We are having discussions across Government about how to ensure we secure that continuity without prejudicing what a future Prime Minister might want to do.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between George Eustice and Rebecca Pow

Thursday 17th March 2016 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

I think the hon. Lady will find that we are doing quite a lot of research on marine plastics. Plymouth University has done some work for us on that. I am very clear: we do want action across Europe. That is why we have worked with partners in the OSPAR convention, and why we have pressed to get a voluntary undertaking by the industry to get rid of microbeads. As I said in my initial answer, we have also been very clear that we do not rule out regulatory steps, if necessary.

[Rebecca Pow (Taunton Deane) (Con)]

8. How many flood defence schemes are planned to (a) begin and (b) complete construction in 2016.

Protection of Ancient Woodland and Trees

Debate between George Eustice and Rebecca Pow

Thursday 10th December 2015 Westminster Hall

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (George Eustice)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Taunton Deane (Rebecca Pow) on securing the debate. As the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Stockton North (Alex Cunningham), said, this is the third time I have faced him in this role in Westminster Hall—but it is my fourth time if I include another debate when a colleague of his stepped in.

I should begin by apologising for the fact that the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Penrith and The Border (Rory Stewart), cannot respond to the debate. He has responsibility for the relevant part of the portfolio, but he has been drawn back to Cumbria because of the flooding there, for reasons that I am sure hon. Members will understand. I have had to step into his place at quite short notice, but no one should think that he has no passion for the subject of the debate. I was shown a draft of his speech a little earlier today, and there were some characteristically poetic passages about trees and the passion that he feels for them.

I, too, am passionate about trees. I studied horticulture, and my thesis was on the physiology of deciduous trees in the temperate zone—particularly the issue of how they regulate dormancy. That is an important point: trees define our seasons. They have a remarkable ability accurately to measure day length so that at the same time of the year—every year, whether it is cold or hot—they decide to drop their leaves. They also have a remarkable ability to measure the length of the winter and know when it is safe to burst bud again and start spring. Trees do not get tricked by false springs. No warm snap in January will cause a tree to break dormancy early. They have a remarkable ability to measure the seasons accurately, and they define them.

As we have heard today, our ancient woodlands are highly valued and cherished. We have heard heartfelt contributions from, among others, my hon. Friends the Members for North West Hampshire (Kit Malthouse) and for Cannock Chase (Amanda Milling), the hon. Member for Falkirk (John Mc Nally) and my right hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis) about ancient woodlands and habitats in their areas. Those woodlands are a resource rich in life, providing homes and food for animals, birds and insects. They store carbon, produce oxygen and filter out pollution. Of course, they also provide some of the most fantastic places for us to enjoy.

England’s woodland coverage is as high as it has been since the 14th century, totalling a little more than 1.3 million hectares, which equates to 41% of the UK total or 10% of England’s land area. Of course, we must not forget the position we were left with after the second world war, when, sadly, much of our ancient woodland was felled and replaced with non-native conifers.

That conifer planting was carried out on a large scale by the public and private sectors as a result of a policy drive to replenish the national timber reserve and to improve the economics of ancient woodlands. Since then we have made huge strides, and throughout the 1970s and 1980s we established the concept of ancient woodland, rich in plant diversity and managed through traditional practices. We now know, of course, that ancient woodlands are an irreplaceable habitat, which is why we recognise their special status in the national planning policy framework, which was last updated in 2012.



Since the last war, great efforts have been made to restore and actively manage our ancient woodlands. Estimates of ancient woodland coverage vary, but the ancient woodland inventory identifies approximately 340,000 hectares of woodland in England that is ancient. Nearly 200,000 hectares of that is semi-natural and 140,000 hectares is in plantations on ancient woodland sites. Subsequent estimates suggest that there are about 210,000 hectares of native woodland not on ancient woodland sites. Taken together, those three categories of woodland comprise just over half of England’s woodlands, at about 550,000 hectares.

We continue to work to restore our native and ancient woodlands on the public forest estate and many private woodland owners are motivated and incentivised to do likewise. We are committed to ensuring that our ancient woodlands are adequately protected and sustainably managed to provide a wide range of social, environmental and economic benefits to society. An example is the Government’s contribution to Grown in Britain, which includes helping owners of small woodland businesses who develop products such as high-end wood furniture from woodlands managed to the UK forestry standard. The value to society of the 40 million recreational visits to forests and woodlands is put at about £484 million per year; 65% of the population visited English woodland in 2013.

We are all aware, however, that there are many competing demands on our resources. We are a small island, more densely populated than India, and there are competing pressures on how we use the land that is our most precious resource. We have ambitions to increase woodland cover and improve the quality of our woodland management, but we must be mindful that those ambitions sit alongside a need to increase food production, create renewable energy and capture carbon, while also maintaining the mosaic of habitats that our wildlife depends on, such as our ancient woodlands. As my hon. Friend the Member for Taunton Deane pointed out, we recognise that to compete globally we need to update and upgrade our ageing infrastructure, and foster development that enables our economic growth to be sustained.

We have, however, always made a special case for our ancient woodlands—and rightly so. That is why, as I said earlier, they are protected in the NPPF. The passage that deals with them states clearly and unambiguously that

“planning permission should be refused for development resulting in the loss or deterioration of irreplaceable habitats, including ancient woodland and…veteran trees…unless the need for, and benefits of, the development in that location clearly outweigh the loss”.

The position is very clear—there is protection—and I am not certain what more could be done; the Government certainly have no plans to undermine or change that position. However, I am aware that a number of hon. Members have made some suggestions about how things could be improved and I will return to those suggestions later.

We do not believe that we should simply look to protect our woodlands; we also want to invest in them. Sensitive management of our ancient woodlands can contribute to the challenges I have just mentioned—both capturing carbon and, through wood fuel, biomass-based renewable energy. Effective management can ensure protection against more subtle threats, such as shading of ancient woodland ground flora resulting from lack of management, in order to build resilience to climate change.

Our management continues to promote greater biological and structural diversity in England’s woodlands. In total, 75% of the public forest estate was identified in the Lawton review in 2010 as being critical to supporting the wildlife network and biodiversity in England. That is why the Government have invested more than £60 million in forestry during the past five years.

Private woodland owners continue to be motivated to bring unmanaged and under-managed woodlands back into management, reacting to demand-side initiatives such as Grown in Britain and the renewable heat incentive. Now, 58% of England’s woodlands are in active management, and to support our manifesto commitment we will continue to invest £31 million per annum during the new rural development programme for England, which will see a further 11 million trees planted during this Parliament.

As part of that commitment, we are working with the Woodland Trust to provide more opportunities for schoolchildren to plant, care for and learn about trees. That will give young children the chance to understand and connect with nature, and play a role in making their school grounds and local communities cleaner and greener, helping them to grow the ancient woodlands of the future.

[Rebecca Pow]

My hon. Friend makes that point about education extremely eloquently, and it is important. Will these children be educated about the immense benefits of ancient woodlands in particular, because, as we have heard today, there is so much involved in them that children could learn from?

[George Eustice]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point. I certainly hope that schoolchildren learn about ancient woodlands because, as a number of hon. Members have said, those trees have seen major chapters of our history during their lifetime.

I will also point out that when it comes to the rural development programme, we are doing some direct work on ancient woodlands. More than 4,200 hectares of planted ancient woodland sites owned by the private sector were restored on ancient semi-natural woodlands between 2011 and 2014, and more than 6,500 hectares of plantations on ancient woodland sites have been worked on since April 2011 on the public forest estate.

I turn now to some of the points made by hon. Members in their contributions. The hon. Member for Taunton Deane talked about the importance of urban trees, and I agree. They are very important, and the Natural Capital Committee has noted that in its own report. It is also important to recognise that the NPPF covers both urban and rural areas, so the same protections apply whether trees are in rural or urban areas.

My hon. Friend and a number of other hon. Members talked about databases. We are interested in databases, so I would be interested to see the evidence about how one defines a “threat”, if one is identifying trees that might be under threat. We also recognise that local planning authorities, which ultimately take these decisions, do not report or collate data on ancient woodlands. As far as we are aware, there is no reporting or collating of information, and the shadow Minister raised that issue, too. We are certainly happy to look at it.

Of course, we have the ancient woodland inventory, which was developed in the 1980s. As my hon. Friend the Member for Cannock Chase pointed out, we also have the Tree Register, a registered charity that updates a register on notable trees. That is very important, providing information on the size and growth of trees, as well as details of historical, rare or unusually significant trees. It, too, makes an important contribution.

My hon. Friend the Member for Taunton Deane and others also mentioned sites of special scientific interest and asked whether there could be designations of ancient woodlands as “triple SIs”. As a number of Members have already noted, many of our ancient woodlands are already designated as SSSIs, and Natural England is constantly looking for additional areas that should be so designated. Its work at the moment includes looking at additional ancient woodlands to be designated as SSSIs.

One point to note is that although designating an area as an SSSI is a stronger form of protection, in that there is a statutory role for Natural England if there is to be any development on those sites, the test is still quite similar: if the benefits of development outweigh any damage they can be considered. The test itself is broadly the same, but I accept that the level of protection is higher.

My hon. Friend also talked about strengthening the presumption to “wholly exceptional” when development is considered. I know that the Government have considered the issue before; they have taken the view that that change is not necessary because the existing protections are adequate. Nevertheless, I take on board the points she has made today and I am sure my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs will read a transcript of this debate. He may want to look further at the arguments that she has so forcefully made about that issue.

I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Taunton Deane that we should accept that although planting new trees is important, and we will plant 11 million new trees during the course of this Parliament, it does not fully mitigate the loss of trees. In fact, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs Gillan) pointed out, even though we are doing lots of planting and mitigation work—that work is important, particularly when it comes to High Speed 2—it cannot replace our ancient woodlands, which are irreplaceable. I accept that.

I move on to the comments made by my right hon. Friend. I know that she has been a tireless campaigner on the issue of HS2 and has many deep concerns about its impact on her constituency. I am pleased that some of the woodlands that she mentioned, such as Mantles wood, have been protected as a result of the decision to put a tunnel underneath the woodlands rather than through them. However, she has made a point today about the areas of outstanding natural beauty sites and other sites affected by that tunnel. I will take her concerns back to my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and we will raise those concerns with colleagues in other Departments, notably the Department for Transport, which is making these decisions. We will write to her with our feedback on that process.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between George Eustice and Rebecca Pow

Thursday 18th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

I entirely agree, and the national pollinator strategy refers to the importance of providing better habitats for bees in urban areas. I can inform the House that there is even a beehive on the roof of the DEFRA building.

[Rebecca Pow (Taunton Deane) (Con)]

I welcome the pollinator strategy, but yesterday I was contacted by a large number of people who were effectively lobbying. Will the Minister assure us that he will look at all the evidence, in order to ensure not just that the wonderful bees are protected, but that our farmers can farm economically and produce healthy food?

[George Eustice]

Many of my hon. Friend’s constituents have contacted me as well, and I know that there is a great deal of concern about the issue. There is a gap here: we do need more field trials. The United Kingdom has commissioned some work of that kind, as have other European Union member states including Sweden.