Shellfish Aquaculture

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 15th March 2023 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Thank you for calling me, Ms Elliott. I am pleased to be able briefly to highlight a few issues. I congratulate the hon. Member for Totnes (Anthony Mangnall) on his knowledgeable contribution. His delivery was almost as rapid as mine—although his abbreviations are much easier to understand. I thank him very much. I found out only this morning that the debate had changed, but when I saw it was on shellfish, I recognised right away—representing Strangford, as I do—that I could make a contribution on the subject.

DEFRA’s figures indicate that wee Northern Ireland, as I call it, produced more oysters than even England did in 2020, so it is important that we have an input in this debate. It is clear that this is yet another UK-wide fishing industry that needs improvement to balance the key goals of conservation and production.

Of course, the Minister knows that fishing and shellfish aquaculture is a devolved matter, but in Strangford we have a very active, thriving and economically viable industry, with Cuan Oysters. We have had it for a number of years—I cannot remember not having it in Strangford lough, to be truthful. I recognise the work that it does, the contribution it makes to the economy and the jobs that it creates.

I understand that the Department feels that it is inappropriate to develop a policy for a non-native species. However, I agree with the Shellfish Association of Great Britain, to which the hon. Member for Totnes referred, that Pacific oysters are not harmful, that they in fact increase biodiversity and that they can benefit native oyster populations by acting as a settlement surface. Why should anyone want to change that? The hon. Gentleman was right in his request to the Minister to seek to have the position overturned.

Worldwide, oyster reefs are generally considered highly desirable habitats, and there are many projects under way to create or restore them. Whether native or non-native, the fact remains that all oysters are equally good for the environment; they clear waters of algae, remove carbon and nitrogen, and increase biodiversity. Again, why would we want to change that successful process? Indeed, oyster farmers control the accessible wild stocks in their areas, making use of the resource and reducing the visible population. There is a strong argument to be made that, if we continue to restrict the UK industry, it will not stop the spread of Pacific oysters.

The popularity of Pacific oysters is growing in the UK, as evidenced by the demand for them, and that cannot be ignored. There are areas where oyster festivals attract tourism and economic growth. Many things come off the back of what the hon. Member for Totnes said. I agree with the APPG that we need a national policy that is realistic and pragmatic and that takes a holistic approach to the species. We need a better understanding of what is before us.

Another issue that I wish briefly to touch on is—this will not surprise anybody—the dreaded EU bureaucracy. My goodness! We never get away from it, do we? I know that we do not in Northern Ireland—I will not get into the Northern Ireland thing at the minute; that is a matter for the future. It is necessary to purify shellfish after harvesting in UK waters, as many of the waters around our coast are not deemed clean enough for shellfish to be consumed directly after harvesting. However, following Brexit, the EU will only accept shellfish that are already safe to eat, so the UK industry can no longer export produce for purification, even though the waters are the same.

I cannot understand what the difference is. It is a bit like it was for us in Northern Ireland when the EU said that we could not bring in plants and seeds, when the soil was the same on 31 December as it was 24 hours later. That policy has meant a dramatic fall in shellfish exports, with many businesses unable to operate at all.

[George Eustice]

The hon. Gentleman makes a very important point. The EU reversed its earlier position when it came to the export of depurated live bivalve molluscs, which is really quite outrageous. It told the Government, in the latter part of 2020, that that trade could continue and that it would just draft a new certificate, and then it just changed its position, inexplicably, in February.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his intervention; as always, he brings knowledge to the debate. That is part of the debate, and it is part of the evidence base that backs up the very point that the hon. Member for Totnes and others are making.

As with so many issues, that barrier to trade is not logical, but then when did anything logical come out of the EU? I say that maybe a wee bit cynically, Ms Elliott. There may be a few others here who agree, and there may be some who would say, “No, that’s not entirely correct.”

Total Allowable Catches: Fisheries Negotiations

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 18th January 2023 Westminster Hall

[George Eustice (Camborne and Redruth) (Con)]

I beg to move, 

That this House has considered the methodologies for setting total allowable catches for data-limited stocks in fisheries negotiations.>

It is a real pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Murray. It is very appropriate for you to chair this event since, as every Member present knows, your knowledge and experience of the fishing industry is unrivalled in this House. I am sure that, were you not being impartial in chairing the debate, you would have plenty to say on the matter.

In my time as a Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Minister, I had two key observations. First, every Minister comes in with plans for the environment, and one of the first things they need to learn is that the environment has plans for them, too, and they are not always very pleasant.

The second truth is that every Minister coming into DEFRA says that they will have an evidence-based approach and will follow the science. But when they ask the scientists what should be done, they find that the scientists are not quite sure. They talk about evidence gaps and things that they do not understand, and are reluctant to come up with a clear policy proposal. That means Fisheries Ministers in particular are inevitably left with the thankless task of trying to make policy decisions with imperfect evidence, but making the best use of the evidence that they have. Nowhere is that conundrum more complex than in fisheries.

I recall a fishing representative giving evidence to a Select Committee. As he put it, fisheries is not rocket science; it is way more complicated than that. There are uncertainties in the science and in the way we calculate maximum sustainable yield. There are difficulties, for instance, around assessing the age of a fish. The basic approach to maximum sustainable yield is to allow fish to reproduce for at least one generation, and that stock should be sustainable. Typically, scientists measure the average length of fish when they are landed to try to assess the age of the stock and its reproductive capacity. That is the essence of the calculations that take place.

But there are difficulties all round. First, fish of different ages tend to inhabit different parts of the ocean, and trying to make sense of that can be difficult. It can be a hit and miss science to understand exactly what the average length of a fish is, given that they are very mobile and move around.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for securing this debate. I am extremely interested in what he has to say, and I spoke to him beforehand. I have one example of the importance of data. We have witnessed a remarkable turnaround with spurdog. In a most important fishery, limited data led to a ban on landing the species. However, the situation has changed dramatically, based on the data for 2023, with a total allowable catch agreed with the European Union for the year ahead based on up-to-date scientific advice. A statutory instrument is to follow, as the Minister knows. That is because of the data-limited status and the evidence that has made the change.

[Mrs Sheryll Murray (in the Chair)]

Order. This is a 30-minute debate. If interventions are to be made, can we make them short and snappy, please?

Sewage Pollution

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 6th September 2022 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. It is important to take the right long-term decisions now on investment, monitoring and bringing prosecutions in order to ensure that the issue improves over the next 25 years and, indeed, that it improves significantly between now and 2025; that is exactly what our plan sets out.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Secretary of State for his answers. He has mentioned on three occasions the need for the devolved Administrations to play their part. Sewage impacts on all the seas around the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Taking into consideration the fact that 7 million tonnes of raw sewage are pumped into Northern Ireland’s seas and waters, and more than £1.5 billion of investment is needed to repair that situation, does the right hon. Member agree that there must be a holistic approach to tackling sewage pollution across the whole United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?

[George Eustice]

As I said, responsibility for water quality is devolved, but of course we work closely with all the devolved Administrations. DEFRA will share all the policy thinking, work and analysis that we have done in respect of England with any devolved Administration who would find it useful.

Government Food Strategy

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Monday 13th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

On the latter point, I am happy to meet my hon. Friend to discuss some of the issues that fishermen in his constituency have raised with him. Over the last six months the price of most fish has strengthened considerably, which has generally been good for fishermen’s incomes, but I am happy to look at the issue he raises. On the wider point, under the Agriculture Act 2020, Governments are already required to produce a review of food security every three years—the first was published in December last year—and they have a legal obligation, when designing future schemes, to consider food security and availability.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Our farmland in my constituency of Strangford is highly productive so we greatly welcome the strategy, but the drive for rewilding is being discussed locally. I am concerned that the United Kingdom will be reforesting land that could and should be used to grow produce and thereby enhance our food security and self-sustainability. As farming is a devolved matter for all the regional Administrations, what safeguards are in place to ensure that good arable land is planted and that reforestation and rewilding are introduced only on land that is not appropriate for productive farming?

[George Eustice]

Agriculture policy is indeed devolved but we have created the UK agricultural partnership. Its last meeting took place in Northern Ireland and I heard about some of the Northern Ireland Administration’s plans for their future policy. I reassure the hon. Gentleman that my opposite number there, Edwin Poots, is well aware of these issues and there is very little danger that he would allow things to be planted inappropriately where there should be crops.

Food Price Inflation

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Thursday 19th May 2022 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

Our domestic production of food is crucial to our national resilience and plays an important role in our overall food security, as do open markets around the world. We will be setting out a food strategy in June that will deal with many of these issues and will set out our ambition to expand agricultural output.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Secretary of State very much for his answers to the questions—he is obviously over his subject matter. In my constituency, milk went up by 25p in one week and since March of last year the price has risen by more than 25%. That is only one of the cupboard staples, and an essential element for future health. What steps can the Secretary of State take with regional counterparts to bring down prices and ensure that the farmer is supported and helped? Will he bring to the ears and attention of the Chancellor the need to halt the plastic packaging tax, which has increased production prices for dairymen across all the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?

[George Eustice]

There have been so many questions for the Chancellor that I am sure by now he has tuned in and is listening to proceedings. In answer to the initial part of the hon. Gentleman’s question, the Government are removing the tariff that was introduced on United States feed maize so that we can reduce some of the input costs, particularly for the pig and poultry sector. That will also benefit dairy farmers.

Northern Ireland Border

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Thursday 3rd February 2022 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

I know that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland has been engaged in these matters over the past week or so as events have been developing. I am sure that there will be many opportunities for the Northern Ireland Office to bring such statements before the House should there be anything new to report.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the people of Northern Ireland have been kept in the call waiting queue for long enough? We hear continual EU platitudes that our opinions are important, while they simply entrench further into the protocol. We are determined that now is the time for the call to be taken, for our voice to be heard, for our problems to be addressed and for justice and UK parity to be restored. Does he agree that since the EU and its government have continued to stall, there are now no options available to the people of Northern Ireland other than major steps that were a last resort and are now the only resort?

[George Eustice]

The Government have been clear throughout that, where there are legitimate grounds to use article 16 of the withdrawal agreement, we reserve our right to do so. We also, as I said earlier, have considerable patience for a negotiated outcome. Our preference is still to get that negotiated outcome. That is why my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary will be having further conversations this afternoon.

UK-French Trading Dispute

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Thursday 28th October 2021 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

The UK Government will stand squarely behind Jersey on this matter. As I said, we have worked closely with it on the methodology for issuing licences. We believe that Jersey has been entirely consistent with the trade and co-operation agreement, and it has been reasonable throughout. As I said earlier, the threats that France has made are disappointing, disproportionate and not what we would expect from an ally, and we also believe that they are not compatible with the trade and co-operation agreement.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the Secretary of State for his fortitude and his strong, firm stance. What steps will he take to ensure that British fleets can fish in British waters without being concerned that they may stray marginally into French waters and be detained, while watching copious numbers of the French fleet fish at will in British waters with no similar harsh justice?

[George Eustice]

Under the terms of the trade and co-operation agreement, I think that is unlikely. Vessels can enter one another’s exclusive economic zone and licences have been issued for that. Most of the remaining issues pertain to the six to 12-mile zone in English waters only, not Scottish waters. In my experience, vessels mostly know where they are, as they have pretty accurate chartplotter data.

Agricultural Transition Plan

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Monday 30th November 2020 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

I do think that there will be opportunities for some of those upland and moorland areas to be able to really benefit from a new policy that is based on payment for the delivery of environmental goods. There have been many opportunities for them to do so alongside their food production. We are also looking at ways to involve local partners in terms of designing schemes that fit a particular geography. That could include the national parks and local nature partnerships.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for his statement. I note that the changes will be designed to ensure that by 2028 farmers in England can sustainably produce healthy food profitably without subsidy, while taking steps to improve the environment, improve animal health and welfare and reduce carbon emissions. That is all very laudable and welcome, but it would be remiss of me not to ask what discussions have taken place with the devolved Northern Ireland Assembly to ensure that this transition will be applicable—and therefore funded—UK-wide.

[George Eustice]

It  is obviously a devolved policy area, so the Northern Ireland Executive and DAERA will make their own decisions. I suspect that it is likely that they will depart from the legacy schemes in a more cautious fashion, given their proximity to the Irish Republic and some of the cross-border trade that takes place, but it will be open to them and they will have the freedom to design policies that work for them. I suspect that, in common with other parts of the UK, they will quite quickly want to switch off some of the bureaucratic requirements that have been there in the existing basic payment scheme.

Fisheries Bill [Lords]

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Ways and Means resolution & 2nd reading & 2nd reading: House of Commons & Money resolution & Money resolution: House of Commons & Programme motion & Programme motion: House of Commons & Ways and Means resolution: House of Commons
Tuesday 1st September 2020 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. As with all the work we are doing, this work is under way and we will be consulting the industry on it. I am not in a position today to give him an actual date for the completion of that work, but I can assure him—I know he has been a long-time campaigner on this issue—that we take this issue very seriously. We do want to strengthen the economic link. That is likely to include requirements on vessels to land more of their catch in UK ports. However, we have to proceed with some caution because the right economic link will vary depending on the species of fish. It is important that we do not inadvertently deny fishermen the ability to sell their fish at the best possible price by requiring them to land everything in the UK. That is why some balance has to be struck.

We will seek to remove clause 27 because a proportion of quotas is already guaranteed to the under-10 metre fleet and neither will the drafting of the clause address the need to attract new entrants. We will also be seeking to overturn clause 48, which is unnecessary and too prescriptive. We already have powers to increase the use of remote electronic monitoring, which we will be able to do once we have a greater understanding of how it would be deployed.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The Minister referred to the viability of the under-10 metre fleet, which is very important to us in Northern Ireland. Just last week the Northern Ireland Fish Producers Organisation gifted an extra quota to the under-10 metre fleet to enable it, with the help of Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs in Northern Ireland, to continue to be viable. As the Minister rightly says, it takes all the devolved Administrations, across the whole of the United Kingdom, to work together on behalf of those fleets, which is why the way in which this is managed locally is so important.

[George Eustice]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. I know that fishing in Northern Ireland is particularly important to some communities, particularly when it comes to nephrops, and he is right that it has been a long-standing practice that producer organisations with unutilised quota will often gift some of it to the under-10s so that they have access to more fishing opportunities. In the longer term, it is important that we have a better framework to ensure that inshore vessels do not necessarily have to wait for a gift of quota, but have access to a fairer share of the quota in the first place.

We will also be seeking to overturn an amendment made to clause 1 that would seek to create a hierarchy in the objectives. We think this is unnecessary and unhelpful. Environmental objectives have already been given a degree of priority through the requirement for fisheries management plans, which is how we have addressed that issue.

In conclusion, I have always been clear that the UK will continue to be a world leader in promoting sustainable fisheries, so that we stop hammering vulnerable stocks and think about the longer-term future of our marine environment. We must follow the science, and I would like to take this opportunity to pay tribute to our fisheries science agency, CEFAS––the Centre for Environment, Fisheries and Aquaculture Science—which is home to some of the world’s most talented marine scientists. There are wonders swimming around our shores—some 8,500 different species. As an island nation, the UK can show the world that a better approach can deliver more balance, profitable fisheries and an enhanced marine environment. This Bill sets in stone our commitment to improve the health of our seas and gives fishermen the better future they deserve. This Fisheries Bill gives us the powers we need to do all these things as an independent coastal state for the first time in decades, and I commend it to the House.

Bovine TB: Compensation

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 29th January 2020 Westminster Hall

[George Eustice]

My hon. Friend makes a very important point; none of the tests that we have are perfect. TB is a difficult, insidious and slow-moving disease that is sometimes difficult to detect. We are doing a big piece of work to try to improve diagnostics, including by looking at options such as the phage test, and in recent years our use of the interferon gamma test—the more sensitive blood test—has been more widespread.

A relatively small additional number of animals fall into the category highlighted by my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives. Around 550 animals per year are picked up through routine post-mortem inspections during commercial slaughter, either because they became infected between tests or because they were missed by less than perfect tests.

Since 2006 compensation for TB-affected animals is determined through table valuations, whereby the compensation paid for the animal mirrors the average price paid on the open market for similar types of cattle. There are around 51 different table value categories, which are based predominantly on the subdivision of non-pedigree beef cattle from pedigree beef cattle, and non-pedigree dairy from pedigree dairy. There is a whole range of subcategories based on the age of the animal.

My hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) made the important point that farmers will sometimes say that the table valuation does not represent the value of the animal. That can be difficult, and we are constantly looking to refine the tables, because the value of a small pedigree Dexter cow might be very different from that of a pedigree Hereford or a pedigree South Devon, which are larger animals. We recognise those issues and are constantly trying to refine the tables. It is also important to recognise that we went to a table valuation system, because prior to 2006 there were individual valuations for each animals. Unfortunately, however, we found that land agents would often tend to value up animals, and the taxpayer was not getting good value for money as a result of individual valuations. That is why we introduced a table valuation system. It is different in Wales, which remains on an individual valuation system.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

We have had a large number of bovine TB outbreaks in Northern Ireland, especially in my constituency of Strangford. We want to make sure that the compensation scheme to which the Minister refers is uniform across the whole United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. I want to be sure that, for any potential legislative changes to the compensation scheme that result from this debate, discussions will take place with the Northern Ireland Assembly and, in particular, with the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs, to ensure a uniform response across the whole United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

[George Eustice]

Disease control and dealing with epidemiological outbreaks, including TB, are devolved matters, so each part of the UK has a different approach. In Scotland there is not currently a TB problem as it does not affect the badger population. Wales has a severe problem but is not using culling at this stage. In England we are starting to make significant progress through culling. Northern Ireland is trialling different approaches, such as “test, vaccinate or remove”, although that is rather expensive. It is a fully devolved matter that is decided by the relevant Administration—we are delighted that there is a new Administration in Northern Ireland.

To support and inform the table valuations, we collect data for around 1,250,000 animals every year from the sales of store cattle, calf sales, breeding and dispersal sales. That ensures that the table values are based on real sales data and are as accurate as possible. I take on board the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Congleton and others about the table valuations, but I hope that she understands why we switched to that system over individual valuations.

To return to the specifics of this case, decisions on whether meat is fit for human consumption are made by the official veterinarians who work for the Food Standards Agency in the slaughterhouse. Their decisions are based on findings from the post-mortem inspections that they carry out, as enshrined in the food hygiene regulations. Those involve a set of criteria and an approach very different from what a DEFRA or Animal and Plant Health Agency vet would use on-farm.

When post-mortem inspection reveals lesions indicative of TB in more than one organ, or in more than one anatomical region, the whole carcase is declared unfit for human consumption. As my hon. Friend pointed out, that occurs in a relatively small number of cases, but I appreciate the significance to the farmer affected. About 6% of such cases are picked up in that way. However, when a TB lesion has been found in only one organ or just one part of the carcase, only the affected organ or part of the carcase is rejected. In the vast majority of cases, therefore, when an animal goes to the slaughterhouse and is not condemned entirely, there is generally a significant salvage value.

DEFRA only pays statutory compensation when it has deprived someone of their property to help eradicate a disease. The reason involves DEFRA requiring that an animal be killed as a disease-fighting requirement. DEFRA uses legal powers under the Animal Health Act 2002 to dictate that an animal must be seized, and it has enforcement powers to seize and remove an animal if, as sometimes happens, a farmer resists. In such instances, it is deemed appropriate that the farmer should be compensated.

When a farmer has an animal that has been picked up not by a test—therefore not compulsorily slaughtered by DEFRA—but only on arrival at the slaughterhouse, that situation is much more in the realm of commercial risk. An animal can be condemned for many different reasons for which a farmer would not be compensated, and it is regarded as an issue of commercial risk.

The situation can be addressed in two ways. First, in the specific case of the abattoir concerned, perhaps abattoirs need to be clear in their contracts with farmers and stipulate who is liable in the event that a carcase is condemned. If an abattoir wanted to make it clear that it would not pay for a condemned carcase, stating that in a contract could mean that the county court might find in a different way.

Secondly, we have done some work with NFU Mutual. The National Farmers Union and NFU Mutual are working on an insurance policy product to deal with such situations—either an abattoir can take out insurance to cover the cost of an animal where that happens, or the farmer could arrange to take out some insurance to cover such issues.

To go back to the intervention of my hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce), many farmers who have highly prized show-winning cattle—not just pedigree beef or dairy cattle, but ones that have a huge value—privately insure them, to top up the difference between the table value and the actual value. The commercial insurance market will help farmers to cover those costs and to protect them against loss of their prize-winning bloodstock.

I accept the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives about the need to share more effectively the details of how the TB compensation system works. We are looking to address that by publishing a briefing note on TB compensation, which will go on to the TB information hub operated by the Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board. More generally, there is always room to improve communications, so we will continue to work with the farming unions and others to meet the needs of those who deal with such difficult situations. We invested £25,000 in that TB hub website to improve information available to farmers and give them other practical advice on aspects of their TB programme.

I hope that I have been able to address some of the issues raised by my hon. Friend. He will be disappointed that I have not announced at the Dispatch Box that cases such as his will in future be compensated, but I hope he understands that to do so would be a leap from what we have always done as a nation, in particular since the Animal Health Act 1981, in which the clear concept was of a duty on Government to compensate when we required animals to be destroyed for disease-fighting reasons. Unfortunate cases in which we have not required compulsory slaughter are very much in the realm of commercial risk. It is for abattoirs and farmers through their contracts, or for both through insurance products, to cover their risk.

Finally, I make an offer to my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives, given that he is a close neighbour all the way down in west Cornwall. I am more than willing to meet the particular abattoir owner concerned and to discuss the matter with him. My hon. Friend mentioned the Godfrey review, and we will be responding to that imminently. It will include some proposals to do with TB compensation but, alas, not the one that he is seeking for me to confirm today. However, we have had a good debate and covered many different areas. Again, I thank my hon. Friend for bringing the issue to my attention.

Question put and agreed to.

Exiting the European Union (Agriculture)

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 1st October 2019 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

Let me turn first to the points made by the shadow Minister. He highlighted the use in the explanatory memorandum of the term “fixes”, which he even put in quotes marks. In DEFRA, we like to fix things that are broken, and the truth is that in this case, as in many other cases, it was always recognised that simply to bring across retained EU law would require changes for the purposes of operability. The types of fixes that are commonplace throughout this instrument and all the others simply replace the words “European Union” with “UK” or replace the European Commission as the competent authority with the relevant authority in the UK or with the Secretary of State.

The shadow Minister mentioned the issue of export refunds for dairy, which links to a point that was made by the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon). Let me say that, when it comes to these export refunds, we are simply deleting provisions that have already disappeared from EU law, so we are revoking something that became redundant and obsolete anyway under EU law in—I think—2007.

EU thinking on export refunds has evolved in recent years. There is a general consensus that they can be used only in extreme circumstances—when there is a particular crisis—and there are other provisions in law to enable that to happen. Therefore, they would not be able to be used anyway, because the other associated legislation that would enable us to do that does not exist, so this measure is really little more than a good housekeeping measure.

The point raised by the hon. Member for Strangford goes somewhat beyond the scope of the measure, but I will touch on it briefly. Let me reassure him that the Government are absolutely fully aware of the problems that the Northern Ireland dairy industry in particular could experience in a no-deal scenario. It is the case that it exports around 30% of its liquid milk to be processed in Ireland. That would be a problem if there were a requirement for export health certificates, or, indeed, if full tariffs were applied. It would also be a problem for those cheese processers in the Irish Republic, who would no longer have their supply of milk. Obviously, we hope that this is something that can be resolved through negotiation, but I can reassure him that we are working very closely with DAERA in Northern Ireland to identify all sorts of contingency arrangements and interventions that we would instigate if they were required.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the Minister for that explanation and for all the hard work that he does in his Department. It is good to see him in his place doing things that he did in the past and doing them well. It is important that the Republic of Ireland is aware very clearly of the benefits of having a good working relationship with Northern Ireland in the United Kingdom. It is for the mutual benefit of everyone: for the mutual benefit of the other producers; for the mutual benefit of the factories; and for the mutual benefit of the workers.

[George Eustice]

I could not agree more. There is a mutual interest for all EU members and the UK to reach a sensible resolution to the current discussions. That is why the Government are redoubling their efforts to try to get a sensible withdrawal agreement with that backstop deleted and alternative arrangements put in place instead.

I turn now to the point raised by the hon. Member for Edinburgh North and Leith (Deidre Brock), which also links to a point raised by my right hon. Friend the Member for East Yorkshire (Sir Greg Knight). I am aware that my right hon. Friend has raised with me this issue of cost recovery and charges in a different context, which I am looking into. However, in this particular context, I can confirm that it is licence security that is offered, and it is returned once a licence is utilised within the specified criteria. There are no costs to operators if they use the licence as specified and therefore no economic implications. The hon. Lady should be aware that the impact assessment highlights the fact that any costs would be well below the threshold of £5 million, but I hope that, in this additional information, we are talking here about a licence security that is returned. She must also bear in mind that we are doing nothing that is not already currently done. As I know that she and others would ideally like us to remain in the European Union, she would face those costs anyway. We would be forced to have those costs and would never have the chance to be able to repeal them should she want to. We, at least, as a country about to become a properly independent, self-governing country again, would have the opportunity, at a future date, if we felt it necessary, to repeal these particular provisions and save everybody the bother.

I hope that I have been able to address the points that have been raised, and I commend these regulations.

Question put and agreed to.

Religious Slaughter of Farm Animals

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 2nd July 2019 Westminster Hall

[George Eustice (Camborne and Redruth) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the religious slaughter of farm animals.

Before I get to the issue in the motion, I must say that free votes in the House are wonderful. Those moments when the party structures and the Whips withdraw from the debate—when there are no Whips to point to which Lobby to go through—allow each individual to engage with an issue using their own reason and judgment and can be incredibly refreshing for our politics. Some of the best-quality debates in Parliament take place under free-vote conditions. Cross-party alliances form and, in the end, the House tends to arrive at a sensible and proportionate consensus.

Of course, the party system developed because, if there were free votes on everything, the Government would not be able to get anything done or deliver any of their manifesto commitments, but issues of ethics and religious conviction have always been universally accepted as free-vote issues. For instance, we have free votes on same-sex marriages and on contentious issues such as abortion. My key contention is that religious slaughter should be made a free-vote issue by every party in the House.

Whitehall feels awkward about dealing with this complex issue and it is not sure what to recommend to Ministers. Governments of all shades have tended to leave the issue in the “Too difficult to address” box and have talked themselves into a stance that says, “Now is not the time to deal with it.” If we made it a free-vote issue for the House, we would liberate the Government of that burden of responsibility and, more importantly, liberate Parliament to address the issue.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I spoke to the hon. Gentleman beforehand to get his thoughts about what he was going to say. In my council area of Ards, there was an abattoir that carried out some of the ritual killings and stunned and so on. It created jobs and stability and there was a system in place, which seemed to be acceptable. Is he looking for changes in the methodology of killing or does he want to stop it entirely?

[George Eustice]

I will go on to advocate a package of measures to improve our law, having looked at the issue in some depth. I would stop short of banning it altogether, but we could make major improvements, which I will come to.

The history of our current derogation is long. The first regulations governing abattoirs and the humane treatment of animals in them were introduced through the Public Health Act 1875, which said that all animals should be “effectually stunned”. In 1904, a committee of the Admiralty considered in some depth the right methods of slaughter to deliver humane outcomes for animals and recommended that, without exception, all animals should be stunned. Subsequently, however, the Local Government Board issued a circular that drew on the advice in the 1904 report. It recommended that, as a general rule, all animals should be stunned prior to slaughter, but it created what has become a long-standing religious derogation for Jewish and Muslim communities.

Exiting the European Union (Aquaculture)

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 20th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

First, let me address the points made by the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Alan Brown). This is an important issue and I take exception to the suggestion that a transport issue could be more important than aquaculture. As I said at the beginning, it is an important industry in Northern Ireland, but it is also an important industry in Scotland. He will be aware that the Scottish Government have brought forward their own regulations to ensure that these EU regulations are operable in UK law and that Scottish authorities can continue to regulate the aquaculture sector in a way that is important.

The hon. Gentleman raised an important issue about the sifting Committee, which had indeed recommended that this SI be debated on the Floor of the House and is an affirmative resolution, rather than a negative resolution, as was the initial proposal. As he said, the Committee picked up on the reference to the ability to establish buffer zones. It raised a concern that this was a new power, but I can confirm that it is not a new power. This power already exists and it was probably a misunderstanding of the way the provision is phrased that led the Committee to consider that this was a new power being taken. In fact, DAERA, on behalf of Northern Ireland, has always been able to exercise this power. That said, given the importance of this issue, we chose not to challenge the sifting Committee recommendation that it should be debated, even though we believe it may have been based on a misunderstanding. I am happy to clarify here on the Floor of the House that the power to establish appropriate buffer zones is not a new power, but one that already exists.

Turning to the points made by the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), I can confirm that his understanding is exactly right: officials in DAERA will continue to be responsible for the licensing of aquaculture activities. The whole purpose of all these Brexit SIs is that they maintain the status quo and that there will be no change. Indeed, without them, there would be some doubt about whether DAERA would be able to exercise the full suite of powers available to it, because elements of the retained EU law that it will rely upon would become inoperable. This SI corrects any of those said deficiencies.

Finally, let me address the comments made by the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Ipswich (Sandy Martin). He asked what we will do when we do not have the EU to give us the science in these areas, to make regulations and to tell us what we ought to be doing. I simply say that as we leave the EU it will be for us to decide these things and we have some of the best fisheries science in the world. Across the UK, the Centre for Environment, Fisheries and Aquaculture Science is our lead fisheries science agency. It is a world-leading agency and other Governments right across the globe seek input and expertise from our British fisheries science agencies.

Northern Ireland has its own CEFAS equivalent—its own Northern Ireland-based fisheries science capability, hosted within the Agri-Food and Biosciences Institute. The AFBI is a multidisciplinary organisation, with 650 staff involved in all sorts of high-technology research and development. It leads on fisheries science. This morning, I met Mark McCaughan who is a chief scientific officer on fisheries. The AFBI has a fisheries science base in Stormont and it leads on all the key technical work that needs to be done on issues such as fish health and preventing invasive species.

As I pointed out in my opening remarks, the Northern Ireland Administration and the Irish Government have had long-standing co-operation on building joint management plans for sectors such as mussels that predates the EU. These arrangements will continue; they do not need the EU to stand behind them. The island of Ireland is a single epidemiological area, and there has always been close co-operation on these matters.

There is a tendency for all these debates to cover lots of technical detail, as the hon. Gentleman said. However, it is important to remember that all we are doing with these SIs is substituting the words “United Kingdom Government” for “the European Commission” and making other such amendments. We are not making substantive changes. Members need to bear in mind that probably the most pernicious so-called Henry VIII power of all was the European Communities Act, because section 2(2) of that Act meant that with negative instruments all over the place the European Commission was in effect able to rampage through our domestic law book. The irony is that when any of these regulations were introduced in the House via a negative SI, sometimes to implement delegated Acts from the European Union, there would have been little or no parliamentary scrutiny. It is only now, as we seek to make those regulations that have been in place for some time operable, that Members seem to be concerned.

[Jim Shannon]

To reiterate and strengthen the opinion the Minister has just rehearsed, it is important to note that the local fish producers organisations that I referred to endorse what the Minister is putting forward today. If they have faith in the Minister and what he is putting forward, we in the House should have the same faith.

[George Eustice]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that confirmation. There was indeed consultation, but it was led by DAERA. It is important to recognise that we are doing this on DAERA’s behalf and at its request. DAERA has co-operated and consulted widely with stakeholders in Northern Ireland, and I understand that the regulations have their support. In conclusion—

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Thursday 29th November 2018 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

As my hon. Friend knows, I have always been very optimistic about the opportunities presented by Brexit. It is important to note that in a no-deal Brexit, the UK would be free to set its own trade policy unilaterally. The options open to us would be to create autonomous tariff rate quotas, tariff rate suspensions or lower-band tariffs on certain goods if we wished to do so, but we would have an independent trade policy in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Has the Minister had any discussions with the Prime Minister about her withdrawal agreement’s implications for the transport and sale of livestock from Northern Ireland to the rest of this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?

[Mr Speaker]

That was not altogether adjacent to an inquiry about an independent farming policy. The hon. Gentleman might more usefully have shoehorned his inquiry into Question 2. Because he is a very public-spirited fellow, I will let him off on this occasion, but he should not repeat his offence.

Scallop Fishing: Bay of Seine

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Thursday 13th September 2018 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. As I said in my statement, we regard safety at sea to be paramount, and that has been our key message to the French authorities since this incident occurred. Indeed, I restated its importance in my letter to Stéphane Travert today.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for coming to the House to make his statement, and also for the meeting that we had on Monday to discuss this matter.

The safety of our fishermen is vital. Fishing vessels from Northern Ireland were present at the first incident, on 27 August, fishing in legal grounds. Fishermen in boats from Portavogie, in my constituency, are intending to go into those grounds before the end of this month, as they do each year. Will the Minister assure me that our boats will be given safe passage and that their security will be protected? Will he state clearly and unequivocally that their safety and security will be guaranteed?

[George Eustice]

Yes, I can give the hon. Gentleman that assurance. I have made it clear that this is the responsibility of the French authorities, the grounds being in the French exclusive economic zone, but we have underlined the importance of the matter to the French authorities, and they have agreed and recognised that and have condemned the violence.

British Flora: Protection from Imported Diseases

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 27th June 2018 Westminster Hall

[The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (George Eustice)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Henry. I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for East Devon (Sir Hugo Swire) on securing this debate.

As a number of hon. Members have pointed out, protecting our country from pests and diseases is vital to safeguarding our environment. The loss of veteran trees, some of which have been around for hundreds of years, due to some of those diseases, is particularly tragic. I remember as a boy growing up in Cornwall that we had beautiful elms right around the farm. I can remember my father having to cut them down, year after year, because they had died. It was a tremendous tragedy, and since then threats to plant health have only increased. That is why, as a number of hon. Members have pointed out, we have to be constantly on our guard and strengthen our responses.

My right hon. Friend highlighted in his comprehensive speech many of the current threats. As he pointed out, we have the problem of ash dieback, which prompted changes to our plans some years ago. In the west country we have a particular problem, as he said, with phytophthora ramorum, which is particularly prevalent in areas of the country with wet conditions and species that are prone to that disease. We have, with our iconic oaks, the problem of oak processionary moth and acute oak decline, which has been around for a number of years. As he pointed out, recently in his part of the world we have seen the arrival of sweet chestnut blight. In addition, we are now monitoring and are vigilant against threats, including xylella at the top of the list, and others such as plane wilt, which would be a major threat to some of our trees in urban areas such as London, and the emerald ash borer.

My right hon. Friend the Member for North Shropshire (Mr Paterson), who was the first Secretary of State I served under in my post in the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs—I think we are now on to Secretary of State No. 4—asked a very specific question with, I have to say, a hint of scepticism in his voice. He wanted to know whether the recommendations of the tree health and plant biosecurity initiative expert taskforce, which he commissioned and which reported in 2014, had been implemented. He will be delighted to know that those recommendations have been implemented, and many of the important changes that he put in place are still with us today. In fact, we have built on some of the architecture and infrastructure that he put in place.

For instance, we now have a chief plant health officer; indeed, Nicola Spence, our current chief plant health officer, is here today listening to the debate. We have also developed a prioritised UK risk register, which has in the region of 1,000 pests registered on it. We have strengthened governance arrangements. My right hon. Friend asked—with, I think, an especial hint of scepticism—whether our monthly biosecurity meetings, which he used to chair, continue. Perhaps he thought that they had fallen by the wayside after he had gone, as meetings often do. I reassure him that that monthly biosecurity meeting is critical and still takes place. He will be delighted to know that my noble Friend Lord Gardiner, who leads on that element of the DEFRA portfolio, is every bit as tenacious as he was in identifying threats and ensuring that we take them seriously.

The fourth recommendation was that there should be improved border security and strengthened import regulations, which I will deal with a little later. The final recommendation was that there should be a new plant health information portal. We have introduced all those recommendations and taken them further.

As a result of the biosecurity strategy launched in 2014, the plant health service now operates, pre-border, things such as systematic screening of risk, at-the-border checks—inspections at entry points—and also an inland strategy that uses both aerial and ground surveillance to reduce the risk of pests and diseases entering the country, and to manage the impact of established pests.

Turning first to the pre-border checks, we try to stop pests and diseases before they even arrive, and our international horizon scanning helps us spot new risks and take action to stop them. Risks are tracked through a fully published UK plant health risk register, which, as I have said, now has more than 1,000 plant pests and diseases registered on it. Where necessary, we take action to drive up international biosecurity standards, ensuring that regulations are robust in both Europe and beyond. For instance, we secured stronger EU-wide protections against the threat of xylella.

Turning to the border, we have invested more than £4.5 million to strengthen our border security, recruiting new plant inspectors and enhancing training. Our border inspectors carry out more than 100,000 document checks and 30,000 physical checks a year of consignments deemed to be of higher risk. They are highly effective in comparison with their peers, so the UK consistently makes more interceptions of harmful organisms than any other EU member state. In fact, the interceptions we make account for about 40% of the total number of interceptions that take place at EU level.

[Jim Shannon]

I referred earlier to the fact that there is a skeletal body in place in Northern Ireland and the Republic—it involves the Northern Ireland Environment Agency, the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds, the Northern Ireland Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs, and others from the Republic of Ireland—but it has no funding. I do not expect the Minister to have all the answers—that would be unfair—but will he come back to me with an answer about the funding, so that we can get it going?

[George Eustice]

I was going to try to touch on that; it was on the long list of issues that I wanted to cover. There is already an all-Ireland approach to plant health between Ireland and Northern Ireland, and we co-operate closely with the Republic of Ireland on plant health. For instance, we invite it to the UK plant health co-ordination meeting. A lot of joint working takes place in that regard.

In 2016, some 445 different pests were intercepted and identified at UK points of entry; in 2017, the figure was 401. We cannot eliminate all the risks, but we have robust contingency plans in place so that we can take prompt, effective action to tackle the pests and diseases that make it through. In February 2017 we published the generic contingency plan for plant and bee health, which sets out how the DEFRA chief plant health officer will co-ordinate and lead the response to an outbreak of pests or diseases in plants or bees in England.

We also have ongoing extensive aerial and ground-based surveillance programmes, including Observatree, a nationwide network of more than 200 volunteer surveyors trained by the Forest Research agency and the Woodland Trust. We have increased national protection at home by introducing statutory notification schemes for certain tree species and securing protected zones, which prevent the import of trees that do not meet stringent conditions. A protected zone effectively bans the import of trees unless they have been grown in an area free of the relevant disease and are accompanied by a plant passport certifying that. We have introduced more protected zones than any other member state. Since the introduction of statutory notification schemes for imports, there has also been a significant reduction in the number of tree imports. For instance, we have seen a 60% reduction in plane tree imports.

My right hon. Friend the Member for East Devon raised the issue of budget, which is obviously important. There is a £37 million budget for tree health between 2012 and 2020, which has been spent on research, monitoring, risk assessment, surveillance and management and will support the priorities of our tree health resilience strategy. He also asked about Sir William Worsley, our new tree champion. I know the budget is being discussed and any budget he needs will be funded out of the provision we have for tree health, alongside other priorities. Having that tree champion has been an important step forward.

Both my right hon. Friend the Member for Newbury (Richard Benyon) and my right hon. Friend the Member for East Devon raised the issue of the Action Oak programme, which was launched only recently by my noble Friend Lord De Mauley. We have made progress with it: so far, £1.6 million has been raised towards it. My right hon. Friend the Member for North Shropshire raised the issue of border controls. This week, we are running a “Don’t Risk It” campaign, with visible posters and information for the public.

Finally, on the issue of the European Union—no debate in this place is complete without contemplating what might happen with Brexit—leaving the EU is an opportunity to examine all our national biosecurity measures, to ensure that they are as robust as possible and that we are doing everything we can to protect our country. We are working to secure the best EU exit deal, balancing frictionless trade in plants with robust protection against pests and diseases from day one, but certainly there will be opportunities as we leave the EU to adopt a slightly different approach where we deem it necessary to protect our trees and promote plant health in this country.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Thursday 7th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

8. What steps he is taking to support the UK fishing industry as the UK leaves the EU.

[The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (George Eustice)]

Leaving the European Union will provide new opportunities for the UK fishing industry, including in Northern Ireland. On leaving the EU, we will become an independent coastal state controlling access to our own exclusive economic zone, and the fisheries Bill announced in the Queen’s Speech last year will introduce the powers necessary to do this.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the Minister for that response. For the fishing sector, it is important that fishing our own waters will take place. As he will know, the voisinage agreement continues to be an obstacle to that happening, so will he update us on what is happening in relation to that?

[George Eustice]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. The voisinage agreement gives Northern Ireland vessels and Irish Republic vessels access to one another’s waters, and it predates the existence of the EU. Following a decision by Ireland’s Supreme Court, its side of this has been suspended, pending further legislation. We intend to put further pressure on the Irish Government to raise this issue to ensure that they act on the undertaking they have given to re-establish their side of this agreement.

Sale of Puppies

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Monday 21st May 2018 Westminster Hall

[George Eustice]

We publicise any way we can the existing regulations, including the guidance that people should see puppies with their mother before purchasing them. That is long-standing DEFRA guidance. About two years ago, I had a discussion with some of the pet food manufacturers to try to persuade them that they should add this guidance to some of their packaging so that people who were considering buying pets would be reminded of it. I could not get the manufacturers to take up my suggestion, but it was worth a try. The hon. Gentleman makes a good point. If we introduced a change in the law, we would ensure we did everything we could to publicise that.

Finally on enforcement—a number of Members raised the issue—we have provided in our new licensing conditions for local authorities to be able to go for full cost recovery to fund their work in this area. While the internet provides many challenges, it also provides a relatively easy way to identify people selling pets in the UK who are not legally entitled to do so.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the Minister for his response to the debate. A great many charities do excellent work on animal welfare. We know who they are; they have been mentioned. Is it his intention to correspond with those charitable organisations to gauge their opinion on how animal welfare laws can move forward? I think it is important we have their input in the process. Have they been part of it?

[George Eustice]

We work very closely with all the animal welfare charities. As was pointed out earlier, a number of the charities had some reservations about going for a third-party ban. They felt there were other more significant things we could do to tackle the problem of online trading. Now we have done those things, there is a growing consensus that extending the ban might be worth considering. I do not think we should hold it against those animal charities that had some concerns about the measure, but just to reassure the hon. Gentleman, we regularly engage with a whole range of animal welfare charities on that and other issues, and they have all contributed considerably to the consultations we have run.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Thursday 8th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

The hon. Lady makes an important point. We have made good progress in the UK on reducing our use of antibiotics in agriculture. There have been notable successes in the poultry industry, and the pig sector is also making improvements. In our future agricultural policy, we want to support approaches to livestock husbandry that will enable us to reduce the use of antibiotics further and, as I said earlier, we will not compromise our food and animal welfare standards in pursuit of any trade deal.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

11. What steps his Department is taking to support the sale of game in shops and restaurants.

[The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (George Eustice)]

Game is an important part of our food heritage, and it is a draw on menus across the UK and served in many establishments. Exports of game meat were worth £9 million in 2016 and £7 million in 2017. We have no specific plans to promote UK game meat, but we continue to raise the profile and reputation of UK food and drink overseas through the Food is GREAT campaign.

[Jim Shannon]

The Minister will be aware that the game sector is worth £114 million to the industry back home. I suspect he will also be aware that the European market, in particular in France, has decreased. Is he prepared to consider introducing and promoting game in the far east, especially in China, because that market is just crying out for game for people’s plates?

[George Eustice]

I regularly take part in trade delegations with the UK Government, and a couple of years ago I attended the Anuga food conference in Cologne, where there was a producer and exporter of UK game meat. I am happy to meet the hon. Gentleman and consider his proposals in this area.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Thursday 20th July 2017 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

I very much agree. One of the great opportunities that we will have after leaving the EU will be the ability to design more effective and better targeted domestic policies to support our environment and promote productive farming.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Does the Minister agree that the role played by the massive farming base in Northern Ireland—pigs, poultry, grain and dairy—must be utilised and enhanced? What discussions have taken place with the Ulster Farmers’ Union on the needs of the farming community post-2019 and vital subsidies?

Leaving the EU: Poultry Producers

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Monday 13th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (George Eustice)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) on securing this debate about the effect of UK exit from the EU on poultry production. As the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) pointed out, the poultry industry has traditionally not been supported through the common agricultural policy. It has tended not to receive subsidies and, as a result, has tended to be more market focused, productive, innovative and efficient.

The poultry industry is a dynamic and valuable sector, contributing around £3.3 billion annually to UK GDP. It is especially important in Northern Ireland, as the hon. Member for North Antrim explained. In 2015, the value of egg production to the UK was £681 million, and the value of poultry meat production was £2.2 billion. The industry supports about 73,000 jobs in the UK. The sector is even more significant for Northern Ireland. In 2015, the value of output for the poultry and egg sector was over £300 million, and the industry provided direct employment to more than 4,800 people. Moy Park, which is based in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency, is an important contributor to the economy. It is the largest employer in Northern Ireland, a major supplier to UK supermarkets and restaurants, and the owner of a range of well-known brands. It is clear that the poultry industry is an important part of our economy. As we negotiate to exit the EU, we will work hard to get the best possible deal for the sector.

The hon. Gentleman covered the issue of trade in great detail. Our aim for the future is to get the best possible trading relationship with the EU and the rest of the world. High-quality poultry and eggs are key components of many of the UK’s most famous brands and value-added exports. We already export our world-class produce around the world, with UK exports of poultry meat totalling £250 million in 2016. Obviously, there has been a setback more recently with the outbreak of avian influenza, but we do want to build on our success. Action is under way to promote UK food and drink overseas, break down trade barriers and open up new international markets. That is set out in the joint Government and industry “UK Food and Drink - International Action Plan 2016-2020” from the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and the Department for International Trade.

On exit, we want the best possible terms of trade between the UK and the EU. That includes, as the Prime Minister said, a bold and ambitious free trade agreement that removes as many barriers to trade as possible. Leaving the EU gives us an opportunity to forge our own free trade deals around the world. We will work with the industry as we shape the priorities and interests for the UK agri-food sector, and explore global trade opportunities.

Underpinning our ability to trade will be effective disease control, which will always be a DEFRA priority. Disease outbreaks damage the livestock industry and undermine confidence. The need to protect the country from the risks to animal health associated with international trade is a key objective for the Government. The UK’s exit from the EU will not change that. In fact, we will become more vocal on the world stage through forums such as Codex Alimentarius and the OIE, which set standards in international food safety and animal welfare. The Government have a manifesto commitment to promote high standards in animal welfare in future trade deals, and we intend to promote that agenda globally.

I turn to the UK-Ireland relationship, which is obviously of great importance to the poultry sector in Northern Ireland.

[Jim Shannon]

Just before the Minister moves on from global trade, my hon. Friend the Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) mentioned Northern Ireland’s trade with China. Northern Ireland has already done massive trade deals with pigmeat, and has shown that the market can grow. The poultry sector in Northern Ireland is another potential market for growth, and that backs up what my hon. Friend said. The Chinese market, in particular, could be developed greatly.

[George Eustice]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, and I wanted to come on to some other issues on trade, one of which is China. There are opportunities in relation to what is called the fifth quarter; it never ceases to amaze me that chicken feet are apparently a delicacy in China and can attract a high value there—far higher than in the UK. However, there are real opportunities to create value from parts of the carcase for which there is no market in the UK or, indeed, Europe.

Another point I would make is that, as the hon. Member for North Antrim pointed out, there has always been quite a worldwide trade in poultry. We consume more white poultry meat than we can produce, so we traditionally import white meat, but we have also exported dark poultry meat, which is in demand in other parts of the world.

We have set up the Great British Food Unit to break down some of these barriers to get access to markets such as China. The hon. Gentleman mentioned the cost of feed and the importance of making sure that we have open markets so that we can buy competitively priced inputs. Obviously, once we have left the European Union, it will be within our gift to decide our tariffs and the access we give to feed from other parts of the world, but the vast majority of animal feeds coming into Europe already come from other parts of the world, and we would probably not want to do anything that would disrupt that flow because it is crucial to the economics of the sector.

The final thing I would mention on trade is the US, which is a major producer and exporter. I am aware that there are concerns about the standards of production in the US. It has lower standards of animal welfare and lower standards of food safety, and it allows approaches that are not currently allowed in the European Union, such as chlorine washes. It is important, as we contemplate any future trade deal, that we do not put our industry at an unfair disadvantage, as the hon. Gentleman pointed out, and we will clearly take very earnest account of that as we consider future trade deals.

Let me turn to the UK-Ireland relationship. I begin by reiterating the reassurances provided by the Government’s White Paper on the UK-Ireland relationship. The UK and Irish economies are deeply integrated, particularly so in the case of food, farming and agriculture. The Irish Republic is the UK’s top destination for poultry meat, with £68 million of exports in 2016. Over 14,000 people regularly commute between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic, and we recognise that for them the ability to move freely across the border is an essential part of daily life. Therefore, as the Prime Minister stated in her speech in January, we will work to deliver a practical solution that allows the maintenance of the common travel area with the Republic of Ireland, while protecting the integrity of the United Kingdom’s immigration system.

There are, of course, many specific issues related to the border between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic, and we are working across Government and with the devolved Administrations to identify a potential solution to them. That includes looking at precedents in other agreements, and colleagues in the Government are considering the extent to which digital solutions could help to make sure that we have a frictionless border. They are keen to learn from free trade agreements in parts of the world that are not part of a customs union but that are nevertheless able to accommodate quite complex integrated supply chains, to see what lessons we can learn as we develop solutions to this particular challenge.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned labour, and I recognise that it is an important issue for the poultry industry. Last year, I spoke at the egg and poultry industry conference, where these concerns were very vocally laid at my door. I recognise that, particularly in the last 12 years or so, the sector has become quite dependent on migrant labour. The important thing is this: just because we are leaving the European Union and ending the presumption of the free movement of people, that does not mean that we are pulling up the drawbridge and ending all immigration. In fact, it is incredibly important that we put in place a new type of partnership with the European Union that enables us to control immigration, but that, crucially, allows us to enable some people to come here and work, be that on temporary work permits—that could be for some low-skilled people—or on longer-term permits, for some of the more skilled positions. The crucial thing is that it will be, in effect, in our gift to decide what those future policies would be and what arrangements we put in place. We do recognise that this is an important issue for the poultry industry, and we will take care to ensure that it and other sectors of the farming industry have access to the labour that they need.

The hon. Member for Strangford mentioned support for the industry. As we design a replacement for the common agricultural policy, we have been clear that we would like to look at the opportunities to promote higher standards of animal welfare and to see how we could incentivise that by rewarding livestock farmers who go above and beyond a regulatory minimum. That could involve some support for the poultry industry to enable it to invest in different approaches to animal husbandry that are better for welfare and might reduce our reliance on antibiotic use, which is another important challenge facing the sector.

The hon. Member for North Antrim mentioned encouraging new people to enter the industry and trying to inspire young people—the next generation—to get involved. I agree that this is important. We have an ambition as a Government to treble the number of apprenticeships. We have been looking at opportunities to use the apprenticeship levy in other parts of the supply chain, potentially enabling us to get more apprentices on to farms. There are projects such as Bright Crop that send young graduates into schools to encourage teenagers choosing their GCSEs to pick the subjects that might enable them to go into exciting careers in the food and farming sector. This is an important area that we are continuing to develop.

We have had a very free-ranging debate to end a rather long day here. The hon. Gentleman has made some important points. We do recognise the importance of this vital industry—a competitive industry—and we will ensure, as a Government, that as we design policies for after we leave the European Union, we get them right for our poultry sector.

Question put and agreed to.

Household Food Insecurity

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 6th December 2016 Westminster Hall

[George Eustice]

I buy fresh fruit and veg, as I am sure do many other Members. Somebody made a point earlier about sell-by dates. The truth is that veg will actually last quite a long time if it is refrigerated, in my view. Of course, there is also frozen fruit and veg, which is also relatively cheap.

[Jim Shannon]

The Minister is being most generous to all of us in giving way. I am sure he recognises the importance of home economics classes for children at every level of school, including primary and, particularly, secondary schools. Those classes are and should be very much part of pupils’ lives. They give them the opportunity to produce a meal at a reasonable price, and it is good for a child or young person to do that and take that meal home. Does the Minister value home economics education in schools and how it teaches people to prepare meals in later life, as I do?

[George Eustice]

I very much agree with the hon. Gentleman. He will be aware that the Department for Education launched the school food plan two or three years ago. Hardwired into that, as well as giving schools quite specific criteria about the type of healthy and nutritious food they should have as part of their school meals, was the idea that all schoolchildren should visit a farm, so that they can see how their food is produced and understand the connection with that food production. There was also the idea that primary school children should be taught to prepare a basic food dish, so that they get used to managing and handling food. That means that they know where their food comes from and how to handle it. I very much agree with the hon. Gentleman that that is an important point.

The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs has recently consulted on all of its statistical surveys. For each Office for National Statistics survey, including the living costs and food survey, there is a steering group that also includes representation from the devolved Administrations.

As we all know, the best route out of poverty is to have a job or to find employment. It is important to note that employment is now at a record high, at more than 74.5%, and that the number of people in work has actually gone up by 461,000 this year, to record levels. I recognise that in many constituencies, including my own, the issue is not so much worklessness as low pay. That is why the Government are increasing the national living wage to £7.50 from April 2017—and we have made clear that we intend to increase it further. We need to tackle low income, and we have outlined our plans to do so.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Thursday 18th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. This issue also affects the Department for Health, and the chief medical officer is leading our work in this area. As my hon. Friend says, we have published an antimicrobial strategy setting out our approach for the next five years. It is also true that, although the use of antibiotics in farming has been relatively static over the past decade or so, we have seen an increase in the use of antibiotics in medicine, which is of great concern.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

McDonald’s is phasing out beef products that contain antibiotics, but it has indicated that beef products containing ionophore drugs will be acceptable, as they harm neither animals nor humans. What discussions has the Minister had with the catering industry about that?

[George Eustice]

I have not had any specific discussions on that point. As I have said, all antibiotics have to be prescribed. It is important to distinguish between routine use and preventive use. Sometimes it is right to use them preventively if there is a particular problem in a herd or a flock, but they have to be prescribed by vets—and only sparingly.

Organophosphate Sheep Dip

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 10th June 2015 Westminster Hall

[George Eustice]

The Government recognise that organophosphates are potentially dangerous substances whose use needs to be controlled to minimise the risks to humans. Government policy is, and always has been, based on the best scientific advice. Safety warnings on the products reflected the known risks at the time. It is Government practice regularly to review the controls in line with the latest scientific advice and to carry out research to provide more information where required.

[Jim Shannon]

Throughout the debate, Members have detailed the examples of their constituents. What consideration has the Minister given to the common denominator of those examples—namely, the organophosphates used by all those people, who are now suffering as a result? There has to be a common denominator and an investigation into that.

[George Eustice]

All I can say is that the Committee on Toxicity has looked at the matter exhaustively. It has produced a detailed report reviewing dozens of studies, and has been unable to establish a link. Its conclusions are very clear. Over the past decade, the Government have commissioned £4 million of research into the issue. Many, many people—experts in their field—have looked into the issue and reviewed all the available evidence to reach their conclusions.

Rural Payments Agency: Basic Payment Scheme

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 24th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right; the Labour party, when in government, allowed chaos to continue year after year. We have acted swiftly to ensure that farmers can get their applications in on time this year.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Obviously there are difficulties with payments across the whole United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Has the Minister had an opportunity to discuss these matters with his counterpart in the Northern Ireland Assembly, for example, and what discussions has he had with the farming unions, which might be able to indicate the best way to ensure that payments are made on time?

[George Eustice]

On the latter point, all farming unions and representatives and agricultural consultants have welcomed the steps we have taken, because they want to ensure that they can get their applications in on time. I discussed the matter with some colleagues from the devolved Administrations at the European Council last week, and I can confirm that they are all relieved that the Commission has extended the deadline.

Fishing Discards and Quotas

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 18th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

I am more than happy to do that. My officials are in the officials’ box listening. I can assure my hon. Friend of that offer. They wanted to hold one of those meetings in Kent; Folkestone and Hythe would be a perfect place for it.

Exemptions and flexibilities will help to make the discard ban work. To ensure that it works in practice as well as in theory, during the deal we negotiated increased flexibility in how we manage quota. Those problems were considered during the reform. There are a number of key flexibilities. First and perhaps most importantly, there is inter-species flexibility. If fishermen put their nets out in a mixed fishery and catch more haddock than they expected but do not have the quota for it, they might be able to count that haddock against whiting or cod. That inter-species flexibility is essential to making sense of a quota regime.

Secondly, fishermen will be able to bank or borrow up to 10% of their quota from one year to the next, which gives them more flexibility in matching catches to quota. Thirdly, to pick up on a point made by my hon. Friend, there is a survivability exemption. Fishermen will be able to return some catches to the sea if they have been scientifically proven to have a high rate of survival. Returning those fish to the sea allows them to grow and spawn, fortifying the stock for the future. As he pointed out, landing under-sized, juvenile plaice for which there is little market makes no sense if, by returning them and they survive, they can continue to grow.

Last year, we commissioned a large-scale research project to assess the survivability of plaice in different fisheries around the coast. The industry has identified plaice as a key species that has a high rate of survival. Once we have marshalled and considered that evidence, we will argue for exemptions on the basis of survivability for plaice and probably for a number of flat-fish species. It is important to recognise that we have access to other exemptions. That can include reasons such as disproportionate cost, or that it is not possible to further increase selectivity and reduce unwanted catches—that is the so-called de minimis exemption.

Finally, another point to bear in mind is that when implementing the discard ban, we will start with the species that define the fishery. It will not be a discard ban on every quota species from the beginning. We will start with those that define the fishery in 2016 and aim for it to cover all quota species by 2019. For instance, in the North sea, hake is sometimes referred to as a choke species. Fishermen find it difficult to avoid as a by-catch, but it would be possible to get to a discard ban on hake in later years, closer to 2019.

There are specific issues for the inshore fleet. I greatly value our inshore fishing communities and understand the specific problems they face. My hon. Friend used a figure that is often quoted to me—he said that they have access to only around 4% of quota. It is not quite as simple as that: the less mobile nature of the inshore fleet means that it is unable to access about 60% of the UK quota because it is in offshore waters—for instance, some of the mackerel fisheries well offshore are outside the range of the inshore under-10 metre fleet.

Within their inshore area of operation, however, by value the under-10 metre fleet land about a third of all quota stocks. At December Council I fought hard to secure roll-overs and quota increases for stocks around the UK, including some of those stocks that are important for the inshore fleet. Where there were cuts, which my hon. Friend has mentioned, we made an argument and brought fresh science to the table in order to reduce them. For instance, we managed to get a 10% increase in North sea skates and rays for Folkestone and Hythe and a roll-over for other areas in the UK, as opposed to a proposed 20% cut. I also agreed an extra 300 tonnes of whiting for the under-10 metre fleet in the north-east of England to allow it to land and sell its by-catch.

I recognise that many under-10 metre fleet fishermen will still feel that the current allocation means that they do not get a fair share, and they have a fair point. The reference period for when current allocations were decided was around the mid-’90s. By all accounts, some of the data for the under-10 metre fleet at that time were quite patchy and one result of that may be unfair allocation. That is why, since 2012, we have given the under-10 metre fleet access to additional quota to try to support it, and we continue to work with the industry on the quota realignment from unused quota on the larger vessels and producer organisations to the under-10 metre fleet. We are currently working to make that permanent and we are working through a number of appeals that some producer organisations have made to our approach. It is our intention to put that on a permanent footing.

The total increase in quota will vary from species to species, because it often depends on what is unutilised by the under 10-metre fleet. For instance, there could be significant increases in flatfish species that are particularly important to the under 10-metre fleet. Across the board, we estimate that the increase in quota could be about 12% for the under-10 metre fleet.

I also recognise that the under-10 metre fleet faces particular issues when implementing the discard ban, and we are looking at options to try to address them. As part of our consultation, we are seeking views on possible exemptions and changes to quota management for that part of the fleet, including options to make best use of any quota uplift. One option we have suggested in the consultation is to ring-fence 25% of the total national uplift in quota for the inshore fleet. That could give a significant increase in quota for the under-10 metre fleet.

I am also aware that the issue of latent capacity in the inshore fleet causes concern. We are currently consulting on options to make sure that inactive vessels are not able to re-enter the fisheries. That would provide certainty and security for those vessels operating in the under-10 meter pool. However, having discussed the issue at a number of fishing ports, I am aware that there are mixed feelings about that in the fishing industry. Obviously, I shall wait to see the full responses to the consultation.

I want to say a little about the new European maritime and fisheries fund, which will open shortly. The UK will receive some £200 million from the fund, which will help us to meet the challenges of implementing CFP reform. For instance, the lion’s share will go on selective net gear, helping fishermen to get the equipment they need to fish more selectively. It will also be used to help foster growth in the sector. Fishermen will be able to use the funding to help them adapt to the discard ban by purchasing more selective gear.

Across Europe, we have made real progress towards more sustainable fishing and stock recovery. In 2014, 27 stocks in the north-east Atlantic, North sea and Baltic were managed at maximum sustainable yield, up from just five species in 2009. At December Fisheries Council, I was pleased to secure a continued increase in the number of sustainable stocks this year and we expect to have 30 or more species that are fished sustainably. We are moving in the right direction with sustainable fisheries.

In my time as Fisheries Minister, I have visited many different ports across the UK and have always been impressed by the enthusiasm, determination and resourcefulness of the fishing industry. The marine environment, as I said at the beginning, is very complex.

[Jim Shannon]

As this is probably the last fishing debate we shall have in this Parliament, I thank the Minister for all the hard work he has done for all the fishing sectors across the whole of the UK, particularly in Northern Ireland. I know that he has a good relationship with the Minister for Agriculture and Rural Development, Michelle O’Neill. They have been an example of how to work together, in particular for the betterment of the fishing industry.

[George Eustice]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for those kind words, although I, like all hon. Members, very much hope to be back after 7 May. I have enjoyed my time working with the industry.

I am confident that together we can build on our past successes and strengthen and grow our fishing industry for the future. It has been a pleasure to discuss this issue today.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Thursday 12th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

We are discussing that with processors and port authorities, but we believe that we have enough processing capacity to create fishmeal, although there may be problems with transport from the ports to the locations where the fishmeal is processed. We want to change fishing behaviour, and to reduce the amount of unwanted fish that is landed by means of more selective gears and changes in fishing patterns.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I am sure that the Minister is aware of the regional discrepancy in net configurations. The Northern Ireland requirement is 300 mm, while the requirement in the Republic of Ireland is 80 mm, and there are different requirements in Scotland, Wales and England. Has the Minister discussed with regional authorities and the Government of the Republic the introduction of more uniformity in net configuration, in the context of the discard ban?

[George Eustice]

I shall be happy to look into that. As the hon. Gentleman knows, the nephrops industry is particularly important in Northern Ireland, and we managed, against the odds, to secure an increase in the total allowable catch at the December Council. That will be good for the Northern Ireland fleet. Different countries take different approaches when it comes to technical measures; that is an important aspect of the devolved entity that we want the common fisheries policy to become.

Poultry Industry

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 20th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (George Eustice)]

I begin by congratulating the hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire (Roger Williams) on his continued interest in this subject, and on securing this important debate on the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership and the impact that it might have on the poultry industry.

As the hon. Gentleman says, our poultry industry is vital to the UK economy and is one of the most successful across Europe, supporting around 73,000 jobs in the UK and contributing £3.3 billion annually to the UK GDP. I am aware that, as the hon. Members for Strangford (Jim Shannon) and for South Down (Ms Ritchie) pointed out, there is a very strong poultry industry in Northern Ireland as well, so securing and building export markets is particularly important for sales of dark poultry meat and so-called fifth quarter products. This provides added value markets for poultry meat products not generally consumed domestically, and therefore increases the value of each bird.

We have continued to seek access to foreign markets for our poultry products. The hon. Member for South Down highlighted the potential in China. Just last week the Secretary of State was in China. One of the things she was doing was progressing negotiations to open the potentially lucrative market there for chicken feet. One of the interesting things one learns in this job is that although there is not a large market for chicken feet in this country, they are regarded as a delicacy in China and therefore fetch a value that cannot be achieved here.

International exports of UK poultry meat increased by 31% over the first half of last year. This growth has been supported by new markets opened in, for instance, Madagascar and Mozambique. Exports of live poultry increased by 9% in this period, with particularly strong growth in Africa. This growth has continued despite some of the challenges that the industry has faced, and is a strong indication of both the innovation of the industry and the strong partnership that the industry has with Government.

As the hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire pointed out, there are wider benefits for other sectors in the food industry from increasing access to foreign markets. For instance, in 2013 UK producers exported almost £2 billion-worth of food, feed and drink to the US. A comprehensive trade agreement between the EU and the US could add as much as £10 billion annually to UK GDP. One independent study estimates that total UK food and drink exports could increase by around 4.5% as a result of TTIP, so securing an ambitious deal in TTIP is a priority for the Government and we are prepared to take the necessary steps to ensure that we achieve a deal that provides the best possible outcome for the UK.

I know that there are some concerns, specifically in the poultry industry, about the potential impact of TTIP. I can reassure the hon. Gentleman that I had a meeting with the British Poultry Council last year to discuss its concerns in some detail. We should know that one consequence of freer trade with the US is a potential increase in the level of competition for UK producers. We need to consider the implications of the trade deal for different sectors within the farming industry.

[Jim Shannon]

Although we have made concessions in deals with the United States, we sometimes find the United States very reluctant to do likewise. Has the Minister any experience of that in relation to food imports and exports?

[George Eustice]

It is widely anticipated that the US will make concessions, but the hon. Gentleman makes a good point. The opening offer from the EU was deemed to be somewhat more generous than the opening offer that came from the US. That was recognised. At a session that I had with Tom Vilsack, who was representing the US, and other EU leaders, that was one of the points that was raised.

I appreciate the concerns about the implications of the different approaches taken to food safety and animal welfare as between the US and the EU and, in particular, whether this could place UK producers at a competitive disadvantage. I shall return to this point later in my remarks. First, we need to recognise that any free trade agreement is about setting the foundations for a better, more effective trading environment for our producers. This includes outlining specific areas for deeper collaboration to ensure that we are maximising trade opportunities. For agriculture, this includes establishing a better transatlantic relationship with regard to animal and plant health—or, to use the jargon, the sanitary and phytosanitary measures.

The aim of TTIP will be to formalise how the EU and US work together in this area to facilitate trade, while protecting human, animal and plant health. I should point out that that is not something new. For example, the EU has negotiated deals with a number of countries, including with Canada and Korea—both of those deals include dedicated sections on animal and plant health measures. Each agreement sets out some specific details in a tailored way, but ultimately outlines a template for future co-operation in a given field. If we can achieve that with Canada and Korea, I see no reason why it should not in principle be possible to achieve the same with the US.

We should bear in mind the fact that a free trade agreement is just the beginning of the process, not the end. Once agreed, TTIP would form the basis from which to negotiate specific market access issues, product by product. For example, the detail of specific sanitary requirements for poultry exports to the USA would be set out in an export health certificate, which would be negotiated only once discussions on equivalence had been concluded. The UK would be fully engaged in all stages of these European-led negotiations to ensure that UK exporters get the most favourable conditions possible in order to facilitate our exports. We should remember that exports are as important for our industry as they are for the US.

We should recognise that it is inevitable that different countries will take a different approach to ensuring food safety and animal welfare. The UK and wider EU farm industry takes a farm-to-fork approach to food safety, as the hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire pointed out, whereas the US approach has historically focused on the safety of the end product and taking safety measures closer to the point that food is consumed. Although such differences in approach are definitely relevant, they should not present an insurmountable obstacle to trade, which is why the principle of equivalence is important.

--- Later in debate ---

[George Eustice]

I will come on to the EU negotiating mandate in a moment.

Although our approaches differ from those of the US, there are also opportunities, particularly when it comes to welfare. TTIP presents an opportunity for us to work with the US to improve co-operation on animal welfare and promote international standards. If we take an optimistic approach, there is the possibility of leading calls for an improvement in animal welfare practices in the US, perhaps as the quid pro quo for access to the EU market. We should not lose sight of that opportunity.

We also continue to support the European Commission to ensure that high welfare standards are a requirement of the trade agreement, and we continue to work through international bodies such as OIE—the World Organisation for Animal Health—both to raise standards and to ensure that signatory countries fully implement the decisions reached.

Returning to the point I raised about the negotiating mandate, it is important to recognise in respect of the transparency for which the hon. Gentleman argues that the EU’s negotiating mandate is publicly available online and sets out the key principles for animal and plant health in the TTIP negotiations. I would encourage any hon. Member who feels that these are too opaque to look at that mandate, which, for instance, highlights key areas for further co-operation, including using international standards, having a science-based approach to risk assessment and tackling animal welfare. Both food standards and animal welfare considerations are hard-wired into the EU negotiating mandate. The EC has made it clear in all its pronouncements that it considers it to be important, and it has not lost sight of that importance.

In conclusion, I believe that the UK poultry industry can remain resilient in an increasingly competitive global industry. For their part, the Government will continue to support the industry by opening new markets and promoting competitiveness. For example, we are investing £160 million in the UK agri-tech strategy to help take innovations from the laboratory to the farm. That strategy is already investing in two projects in the poultry sector—one on a more humane way of killing poultry and the other on creating a bank of genetic information on broilers and using that information to aid future breeding programmes. We are also reducing the regulatory burden on industry through implementing a risk-based approach to inspections. I believe that our excellent track record on animal welfare, traceability and production standards will continue to provide opportunities for British products in foreign markets. The British poultry industry has been very successful at exporting.

[Jim Shannon]

The Minister talks about the efforts made on the mainland here in the United Kingdom, and we are very grateful for that, but I wonder whether information on advances made in the industry here are exchanged with the devolved Administrations—the Northern Ireland Assembly, the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly—so that our industry in Northern Ireland does not lose out.

[George Eustice]

Yes, the agri-tech strategy is a UK one, and we work with research establishments throughout the UK. Much of the information that comes out of the agri-tech strategy is made available.

It is also important that we continue to work together to ensure that high industry standards and quality of produce are maintained and demonstrated to our trading partners to facilitate further growth in exports. As I said, the UK poultry industry has been successful in that regard. Opening new markets is a long and complex process, but we are determined to support the poultry industry to capitalise on global export opportunities. We should not lose sight of the fact that free trade is a two-way street, as the hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire pointed out. On the whole, a more open and efficient transatlantic trade environment presents major opportunities for UK food and drink producers, and will also deliver real benefits for consumers.

I understand the concerns that the hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire and others have highlighted in the debate, but I believe that there are benefits to the UK economy and to the UK food industry in concluding a TTIP deal. I believe that the sanitary and phytosanitary issues raised can be accommodated in such an agreement.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Thursday 11th December 2014 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The landing obligation for fisheries is potentially a disaster for the Northern Ireland fishing industry, and it is to be introduced in January 2016. What discussions have taken place with the fisheries Minister in the Northern Ireland Assembly about the effect the discard policy will have on the nephrops fisheries in the Irish sea?

[George Eustice]

I have regular meetings and discussions with representatives from the Northern Ireland industry, including earlier this week, when we discussed our approach on the total allowable catch—TAC—for nephrops for next week’s December Council meeting. The landing obligation contains many flexibilities: there is a de minimis; we can bank and borrow quota from one year to the next; and where there is high survivability we are able to put species back. There are sufficient flexibilities in the regulation to make this discard ban work, but there is detail we need to resolve, which is why we are issuing a consultation in the new year to begin that process.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Thursday 17th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for that response. Almost 1 million people participate in shooting sports in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The recreation is worth £2.5 billion through spending on goods and services. What discussions has the Minister had with the British Association for Shooting and Conservation and the Countryside Alliance about how to complement the good work that they do in the countryside?

[George Eustice]

Tomorrow, I will be attending the CLA game fair and, among others, I will meet the British Association of Shooting and Conservation and the Angling Trust. I look forward to discussing some of the issues on their agenda.

Elliott Review and Food Crime

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 2nd April 2014 Westminster Hall

[George Eustice]

I was going to come on to that point, but I will deal with it now because my hon. Friend has raised it. She highlighted passionately in her speech the fact that there has not been as much of an increase in retail food prices as there has been in commodity prices. That can be normal, because commodity prices tend to cover a small number of products, whereas there is a broader range of products in food stores. There has been a 12% rise in food prices in real terms between 2007 and 2012, with the biggest spike in 2008.

In many debates on food banks and the like—I notice that the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr Field) is not here—I am told repeatedly that the price of food in the shops is going up. My hon. Friend the Member for South Thanet highlighted the frozen cottage pie that cost £1 and did not go up in price again, but food prices at the retail end have gone up by 12%, and the fact that certain individual products have stayed the same price may come down to pricing strategies and promotion, so we cannot read too much into such examples. I recognise her point, however. The FSA has reviewed its emerging risks programme, and it is working with DEFRA to identify and assess the economic drivers of food fraud so that those influencing factors are better understood and acted on.

[Jim Shannon]

In my contribution, I asked how DEFRA would work with Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales to ensure that there was a co-ordinated plan. Will the Minister comment on that?

[George Eustice]

Again, that is something that I was going to come on to. Food enforcement is a devolved responsibility. The Elliott review was commissioned by the UK Government, but it is being followed with close interest by the devolved Administrations and we are discussing it with them.

Some hon. Members have suggested that the supply chain is too long and too complex. I should perhaps declare an interest, in that my family run a farm shop and butchery, the slogan of which is “Food yards, not food miles.” I have a clear interest in such issues. It is a valid point that small businesses and small retailers may often have far less complex supply chains, and we can learn from that. The horsemeat fraud incident demonstrated the higher vulnerability of some of the more complex supply chains, and many retailers are learning the lessons from that. One could argue that there has been an over-reliance on the paperwork involved in all the systems for traceability and following products from processor to retailer. The onus is on larger retailers to take much greater interest in where their food comes from.

I want to pick up on a few of the other points that were made. I completely agree with my hon. Friend the Member for South Thanet that we should not be seen as a soft touch. It is worth remembering that the EU-wide testing programme discovered less than 1% of products in the UK that were affected by the horsemeat scandal, compared with an average of 4% to 5% in other European countries. Although we are not complacent, we had a more robust system than did many other countries. She also highlighted the fact that there are 111 inspectors in Holland, but I point out that Holland has a slightly different approach. In our local authorities in this country, we have more than 2,700 inspectors; it is simply that they are not in a dedicated unit but sit within trading standards.

The hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) mentioned adverse reports from local authorities that have done their own inspections. It is encouraging that local authorities are stepping up to the mark and carrying out such inspections. As I pointed out, there are two reasons why the figures can look misleadingly high. First, local authorities tended to investigate where there had been complaints, so we would expect them to have found more problems. Secondly, many of the problems that they found were mislabelling, foreign-language labelling or things not being in the right place. Only a small number were food adulteration.

I am afraid that I have run out of time. We welcome this debate, which has been a great opportunity to explore the issues highlighted by Professor Elliott, and we look forward to his final report.

South West Marine Energy Park

Debate between George Eustice and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 29th February 2012 Westminster Hall

[George Eustice]

I certainly agree. I hope to achieve in the debate some progress on what we want the marine energy park to deliver. My hon. Friend is right that such marine energy developers are taking considerable risks. They are pioneers of the industry and are expected to invest large sums of money in development. The least that the Government and their agencies can do is to get on and make things as easy as possible for them as they develop those pioneering ideas. I completely agree with her point.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for bringing the matter before the House today. In my constituency of Strangford—in particular, with SeaGen at Portaferry—there have been successful trials of harnessing wave and tidal movement at the narrows of Strangford lough. Does he agree that there could be an exchange of information from different regions in the United Kingdom? In this case, what we have learned in Northern Ireland might be of advantage to those in England.

[George Eustice]

Indeed. The more we join up such academic research, the better. I know that EMEC—the European Marine Energy Centre—in Scotland worked closely with our academics at Tremough. I would be delighted to see us also working with academics in Northern Ireland, to ensure that we learn the lessons that they have learned.

Another area in which there is a big difference between Norway and the United Kingdom is consultation, which is onerous in the UK. The process in the UK is clearly defined, first a pre-screening consultation with the MMO and then a formal environmental assessment, which is the screening and scoping element. After that there is all the documentation preparation, with a series of environmental statements, and only then the formal application, which is followed by a whole bout of consultation, feedback and mediations to adjust things. Only then can there be a licence determination, after which there is a wait for the licence to be issued, which may cause problems and take time. Then, there are management returns and monitoring reports, and finally the process of decommissioning and proving compliance. The consultation procedure is very complicated.

Let us compare the procedure with that in Norway, which takes a much more pragmatic approach. The handling authority may choose to consult with other bodies, such as fisheries organisations or harbour authorities, but the consultation is loose, pragmatic and sensible. Typically, it takes no more than four weeks. On the environmental assessment here, the MMO must decide in every case whether there should be an assessment, whereas in Norway there are formal environmental assessments only for pre-defined and designated environmentally sensitive areas. In all other cases, self-assessment is generally the guiding principle. Here, the Crown Estate frequently insists on onerous requirements for insurance for decommissioning, but there are no such formal requirements in Norway. There are no application fees in Norway, where the process is completely free because it has maintained a light-touch system.

What happens here in the United Kingdom? Two hours of free pre-application advice is the most that is available, and after that advice is charged at £80 a hour to device developers. An application typically costs from £7,200, which is a huge additional cost. There is also a time implication. In the UK, an application to deploy might typically take nine months, compared with just one month, or three months at the outside, in Norway.

We can learn a lot from Norway. Clearly, we have different structures here. We have the MMO, with which we must work. I want to spend a few minutes reflecting on how to incorporate into our approach some of the lessons from Norway. First, could we not require the test facility operator to be responsible for deploying test devices within its test facility? The important point is that there is a lot of duplication. Wave Hub and FaBTest have had to go through the onerous screening, scoping and consultation processes. If someone wants to deploy a device on that test facility, they must go through the same process again. There is a lot of duplication, and giving authority to test facility operators would be the equivalent in Norway of giving harbourmasters greater control.

Secondly, can we simplify the consultation process within the test areas, given that they have been through huge amounts of consultation and screening? Let us remove the need for the screening and scoping stage because, again, it duplicates work that has already been done. The estimates suggest that, if just that element were removed, three months would be chopped off the application time. If the Norwegian authorities can agree the deployment of these devices in just a month, or three months at the outside, let us set a more stretching and challenging time scale for the MMO. Let us not allow it to sit on projects, letting them stew for months on end, and allowing matters to drag on for nine months. Let us tell it that we expect it to deliver within a month or two months.

Finally, we must enable the MMO to exercise more judgment, particularly on minor alterations to deployment. Sometimes, when a device developer is ready to deploy, it may decide that it needs to change a small aspect of its deployment. At the moment, it must go back to square one and go through the complicated consultation procedure again. The MMO must then consult with other people again, even when that is unnecessary because the suggested change is quite small. The ability to close out consent conditions would be more sensible, and the MMO could exercise judgment without necessarily having to return to the statutory consultees over and again.

Those are technical points, but if we are to make the marine energy park work, a key component is dismantling the barriers that stand in the way of marine energy developers. They take tremendous risks to pioneer an industry. Sometimes, they invest tens of millions of pounds to develop the technology. The very least that the Government can do is to make sure that Government-controlled agencies get off people’s backs and allow them to get ahead and to make a success of the industry.