UK Government Recognition of Somaliland

Debate between Gavin Williamson and Kerry McCarthy

Tuesday 18th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)]

I did not intend to speak tonight, but I am glad to have the opportunity to say a few words. I congratulate the right hon. Member for South Staffordshire (Gavin Williamson) on securing the debate today.

When I was first elected in 2005, I was only selected as the candidate for my constituency about 10 weeks before polling day. During that short election campaign, I was approached by people from the Bristol Somaliland community. It was the first that I had even heard of the place, but by the time I came here I was a firm supporter of the need for recognition.

My hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty) paid tribute to his predecessor, Alun Michael, and news of my support had somehow reached Alun on the grapevine. I remember him accosting me in the Division Lobby on my first vote and saying that we needed to campaign on Somaliland. He was on the Front Bench at the time, but a year later in 2006 we set up the all-party group, and I am pleased to have been an officer pretty much ever since. I congratulate my hon. Friend on being the mainstay of that group, organising all our meetings and being an expert source of information on what is going on in Somaliland.

As has already been said, Somaliland is a beacon of democracy not just in the horn of Africa but in Africa. It has held peaceful elections, and the right hon. Member for South Staffordshire referred to the election in 2003 when the presidency changed hands by 80 votes. If Donald Trump had lost by that amount, we would never have heard the end of it.

What was slightly disappointing about the most recent election is that, although there was yet another peaceful handover, quite a lot of progress still needs to be made on female representation. There was one woman MP, but now there are zero, out of 82 elected MPs. There was also low turnout in some areas. Through the Westminster Foundation for Democracy or other mechanisms, I hope we can do a bit more work on that front.

I join my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff South and Penarth in paying tribute to Edna. I, too, have visited the hospital in Hargeisa and she is a formidable woman. Indeed, I have met many formidable women campaigning on issues such as FGM, maternal health services and recognition for Somaliland.

I echo what my hon. Friend said about the economic opportunities that would be available if we recognised Somaliland. I have heard there is amazing scuba diving on the north coast by Berbera, which could be opened up as a peaceful tourist destination if it were not associated with Somalia. Many other economic avenues could be explored, and I share the concerns of people who are worried about Chinese influence if we do not step in.

The main thing I want to say is that Somaliland is clearly an independent country, and it has functioned as such since 1991. It established itself as a post-colonial independent country, albeit for a very short time, before it went into partnership with Somalia. The message that the UK will recognise Somaliland but we want to be the second to do so is frustrating. There is sometimes a bit of concern about being seen as too colonialist and it being rather patronising that we are the ones who grant nationhood on the country.

Mark Malloch-Brown was a very good Minister for Africa in Gordon Brown’s Government, and he really engaged with the APPG on Somaliland. I thought we were getting somewhere. He had had conversations with various African countries and the African Union, and it looked like we were almost there on recognition. The last we heard was the current Minister for Africa, the hon. Member for Chelmsford (Vicky Ford), say in November 2021:

“Our policy remains that it is for Somaliland and the Federal Government of Somalia to decide their future”.

It has nothing to do with the Federal Government of Somalia.

[Gavin Williamson]

The hon. Lady raises an important point. That is effectively giving the final say, the decision-making power, to a country that does not have free and fair elections, that does not have judicial and legal systems and that does not educate boys and girls. We are effectively rewarding poor behaviour and being harsher on those who demonstrate the type of behaviour and the type of system we want to encourage.

[Kerry McCarthy]

That is exactly my point. The future of Somaliland has nothing to do with the Federal Government of Somalia, and it should not be in their hands. We need to be brave and step up to the plate. The Minister needs to find a country that will go first so that we can go second—I think some of the Scandinavian countries, Canada and some African countries have talked about it. If we do not do that, we will find ourselves here in another 10 years’ time as Somaliland celebrates its 40th anniversary of de facto independence without being recognised.

I finish with a plea to the Minister. Will he step up? If we will not be the first, could he find someone who will be?

Exams and Accountability 2021

Debate between Gavin Williamson and Kerry McCarthy

Thursday 3rd December 2020 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Williamson]

We will always look at different options to improve our examination system and how we work with exam boards, and I am more than happy to meet my hon. Friend to discuss that in greater detail. In terms of catch-up, I pay tribute to the teachers and support staff not just in Harrow, but right across the country, who have done so much. They have been assisted by the £1 billion covid catch-up fund to give extra resources, so that extra teaching can take place at weekends and in the evenings, and children have the opportunity to catch up on work that they have missed.

[Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)]

Research from the Education Policy Institute, among others, on the performance of pupils with special educational needs and disabilities suggests that they can be particularly vulnerable to being underestimated in assessments. Given that some of those pupils might also, for health reasons and owing to shielding, have had more disruption to their education, how can we be confident that any new system introduced for next year will take their needs into account?

[Gavin Williamson]

The hon. Lady raises a really important point on which there is a lot of shared concern on both sides of the House. This was one reason that we particularly weighted the covid catch-up fund to deliver extra money for those schools supporting children with special educational needs. We recognise there are some acute and difficult challenges, and certainly I know that the Minister for School Standards would be happy to sit down with the hon. Lady, along with the children’s Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Vicky Ford), to discuss any extra support or intervention she thinks would be of use and benefit.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Gavin Williamson and Kerry McCarthy

Monday 12th October 2020 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Williamson]

That is why we have given extra flexibilities to colleges and made learner support funds available for devices and to cover connectivity costs, which is an issue that some students have faced. Further education must be at the heart of our recovery from this pandemic, as it is able to reach into many communities that, in the past, have been left behind. It will not only create life chances and opportunities for many young people, but will drive productivity across all parts of the United Kingdom. To ensure that we deliver on that, I look forward to working with my hon. Friend, who is a passionate advocate of further education colleges not just in his constituency but across the country.

[Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)]

I hope the Secretary of State is aware of the Children’s Commissioner’s recent report, “Unregulated”, about children in care living in unregulated, semi-independent accommodation. Next month I am introducing a ten-minute rule Bill that seeks to regulate the supported housing sector. I urge him to speak to his colleagues in the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government to see whether we can all join together to support such vulnerable people.

[Gavin Williamson]

The hon. Lady speaks, rightly, with a passion and conviction on this issue that I share. We want to see this ended; we want to see this changed. It is not something that we can allow to continue. She will be aware of the Department’s consultation on the issue, and we look forward to publishing the results in the not-too-distant future. This is incredibly important, as these children are from some of the most vulnerable backgrounds in the country, and we have a duty as a state to do everything we can to protect them.

Schools and Colleges: Qualification Results and Full Opening

Debate between Gavin Williamson and Kerry McCarthy

Tuesday 1st September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Williamson]

That is why we have introduced the covid catch-up fund: we recognise that there are challenges for youngsters who have missed out on learning and we need to make sure that we give schools and those youngsters the maximum amount of support so that they are able to catch up. One thing that is clear is that the best form of assessment is always examination. Any other route is certainly less good than an exam route.

[Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)]

I welcome the fact that there is money in the tutoring fund for 16-to-19 providers, but sixth-form colleges such as St Brendan’s in my constituency get less for pupils if they have to stay on for three years—perhaps because they are retaking GCSEs—than for pupils who just do the two years. Is it not time to rectify that anomaly and make sure that all pupils get the same funding, so that providers can give extra attention to those pupils who need it?

[Gavin Williamson]

The aim of the covid catch-up funding and the reason why we are covering across 16 to 19-year-olds is because we recognise the fact that youngsters of all ages have suffered as a result of coronavirus. I will take up the hon. Lady’s point and write to her separately on her particular concerns about those youngsters who have to have a resit year and therefore do three years of study as against two years.

Education Settings: Autumn Opening

Debate between Gavin Williamson and Kerry McCarthy

Thursday 2nd July 2020 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Williamson]

As my hon. Friend is probably aware, in the first guidance that we issued on school closures, we highlighted that children with EHC plans would have continued access to schools all the way through this. I would be happy to organise a meeting between him and the Education Endowment Foundation, which is working with us to stand up our tutoring programme and looking at a whole range of options to mobilise that.

[Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)]

What extra support can the Secretary of State give to holiday schemes—not the free school meal side of things, but things such as Bristol’s healthy holidays scheme, which involves play schemes, forest school and physical activities? That would be an excellent way of children socialising again and becoming acclimatised to the idea that they are going back to school. Can he try to support some of those local initiatives?

[Gavin Williamson]

The hon. Lady raises a valuable point. We often talk about the learning loss, but there are other things that children have missed out on, such as the socialisation, physical activity and sports that they would have so often enjoyed. We have invested £9 million in a holiday activity plan, which we rolled out across a large number of local authority areas. We have also been working closely with the National Citizen Service to repurpose a lot of the activity it does through its traditional schemes for local schools. I would be happy to put her in touch with the National Citizen Service, to see whether it could work closely with some of her schools on that.

Educational Settings

Debate between Gavin Williamson and Kerry McCarthy

Wednesday 18th March 2020 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Williamson]

We realise that while we cannot ask schools and education settings to provide a normal school curriculum, it is important to provide activities that engage and encourage young people to attend. We will work across the board, but there are no better people than teachers to really understand what engages children and keeps them motivated.

[Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)]

Last summer, Feeding Bristol distributed 53,000 meals to children, 75% of whom would otherwise have been in receipt of free school meals, but it did so in collective settings such as summer play schemes. Now we are in a very different scenario, as we are talking about getting meals out to children in individual places. What support could the Secretary of State give to organisations such as Feeding Bristol to help them facilitate the work they have been doing?

[Gavin Williamson]

We will be working closely with schools to ensure that there is a proper distribution of support. We have also made it clear to schools—I hope that I made it clear earlier in the statement—that costs incurred by them will be fully reimbursed.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Gavin Williamson and Kerry McCarthy

Monday 11th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Williamson]

I am certainly hoping to be able to report before the summer recess. We are very conscious that so much investment has gone into Lossiemouth and we do not want people to be disincentivised from moving there as a result of the Nat tax that has been imposed upon them.

[Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)]

T9. The UK Government have indicated that they want to carry on playing a leading role in common security and defence policy missions, such as Operation Atalanta, post Brexit, but there are currently no arrangements for third parties to be involved in the decision making, so how does the Secretary of State think that we will be able to continue this involvement while still having a say on whether to deploy our forces abroad?