Defence Programmes Developments

Debate between Gavin Williamson and John Healey

Wednesday 20th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Sir Gavin Williamson (Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge) (Con)]

If I can echo the words of my right hon. Friend the Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith)—now that the Secretary of State’s Treasury minder has left the Chamber, he will be able to speak more openly about some of the challenges he faces in dealing with the Treasury—I appreciate that the Secretary of State faces really difficult decisions and that all these decisions will have been incredibly hard to make, but will he confirm to the House that the Chinooks and the Pumas will, as a first option, be at least offered to the Ukrainians to see if they can use them in any way at all?

[John Healey]

Given the right hon. Gentleman’s experience in this very job, I will take that as an early representation on the future decisions I will have to take on what to do with the kit once it is decommissioned.

Ukraine

Debate between Gavin Williamson and John Healey

Tuesday 10th September 2024 Commons Chamber

[John Healey]

I do indeed. A lot of attention is given to military aid to support Ukraine’s short-term needs—its immediate battlefield requirements—but in the longer term we need to reinforce Ukraine’s capacity to produce for itself. That is why an important element of the steps we have taken to step up support for Ukraine, since the election just two months ago, has been to sign a defence export treaty, which I was privileged to sign with Defence Minister Umerov in No. 10 Downing Street. It provides some £3.5 billion-worth of export credit guarantees that will help us do more to get the equipment Ukraine needs manufactured and exported, and into Ukrainian hands for its fight against Putin’s invasion.

[Sir Gavin Williamson (Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge) (Con)]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his statement. People in Ukraine are facing great challenges, and we can see how much resource Russia is throwing at the situation. Most colleagues on the Government Benches feel it is time for Storm Shadow to be allowed to be used with freedom by the Ukrainian people. Will the right hon. Gentleman set out the legal restrictions that are stopping that from happening? Conflicting briefings have been coming out of Government.

[John Healey]

That is not a matter I am prepared to discuss openly, as such a debate would benefit Putin. The principle upon which this country has given, and will continue to give, weapons to Ukraine is that those weapons support Ukraine’s defence and its right to self-defence as a sovereign nation. To do so, across the board, does not preclude Ukraine from striking targets in Russia, if that is part of that determination and strategy for self-defence and provided it is within the bounds of international humanitarian law.