Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Gareth Thomas and John Bercow(5 years ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Speaker
Order. We are running late, but I will take a one-sentence question from Gareth Thomas.
Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
The three walk-in centres that provide a seven-day-a-week service in my constituency are closed or closing. Why?
Points of Order
Debate between Gareth Thomas and John Bercow(5 years, 11 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text
Mr Speaker
I am saving up the Front Bench. It would be a pity to squander the hon. Gentleman at too early a stage of our proceedings.
Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. You may remember that an independent report into the allegations of sexual harassment, abuse of power and bullying at UNAids, which Britain currently chairs, has recently been published calling for the resignation of the current executive director. Can you think of any way in which it would be possible to elicit a statement from the Secretary of State for International Development, whose responsibility this is, on what she and the Government are doing to effect the resignation of the said executive director?
Mr Speaker
The hon. Gentleman could seek an Adjournment debate on the matter. There are other routes open to him and I think that he knows that. I cannot offer any promise to him but, if he were able to demonstrate that it was a matter of urgency, it could be aired on the Floor of the House. Sometimes, when I am asked by a disappointed or, dare I say it, a mildly frustrated Member who has not been able to air the matter of concern to him or her, my advice tends to be: persist, persist, persist. Just because a Member is unsuccessful the first time round, it does not automatically follow that the Member will continue to fail.
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Gareth Thomas and John Bercow(6 years, 4 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Speaker
There is a lot to be said for the London Borough of Harrow—I used to live near it myself—but it is a considerable distance from Cornwall. We will get to the hon. Gentleman in at a later point in our proceedings.
Transport Secretary: East Coast Franchise
Debate between Gareth Thomas and John Bercow(6 years, 6 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Speaker
Order. Before the hon. Member for Harrow West (Gareth Thomas) intervenes, the shadow Transport Secretary has been most generous in giving way, and that is perfectly proper, but I just emphasise that 15 Back Benchers want to speak. Therefore, it might be an idea to think in terms of finishing the speeches from Front Benchers by 10 past or quarter past 2 at the latest. If it is possible to do so earlier, so much the better. I call Mr Gareth Thomas.
Gareth Thomas
I am grateful to you, Mr Speaker, and to my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough (Andy McDonald) for accepting this intervention before you got up to make your own. Is my hon. Friend aware of the Centre for Policy Studies—not a natural ally for him, perhaps—and its recent report in which it alluded to fundamental problems with rail competition and the declining market interest in bidding for rail franchises? Would he therefore take this opportunity to commend to the Secretary of State the recent Co-operative party report setting out a new approach to public ownership of the railways?
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Gareth Thomas and John Bercow(6 years, 8 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Speaker
It is very useful to learn about Ministers’ domestic habits, and we are grateful to the Secretary of State for providing further information on that score.
Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
The Conservative-run Northamptonshire County Council has recently gone bust. Was that due to a lack of Government funding or local incompetence?
Savings (Government Contributions) Bill
Debate between Gareth Thomas and John BercowMonday 12th December 2016
(7 years, 11 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Savings (Government Contributions) Act 2017 View all Savings (Government Contributions) Act 2017 Debates Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts Amendment Paper: Consideration of Bill Amendments as at 12 December 2016 - (12 Dec 2016)
Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Mr Speaker
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
New clause 2—Impact review: automatic enrolment and pensions savings—
‘(1) The Treasury must review the impact of Lifetime ISAs on workplace pensions automatic enrolment and pensions savings within one year of this Act coming into force and every year thereafter.
(2) The conclusions of the review must be made publicly available and laid before Parliament.’
This new clause would place a duty on HMRC to review annually the impact of Lifetime ISAs on automatic enrolment.
New clause 3—Lifetime ISAs: Advice for applicants—
‘(1) The Treasury must, by regulations, make provision for all applicants for a Lifetime ISA to have independent financial advice made available to them regarding the decision whether or not to save in a Lifetime ISA.
(2) Any applicant that opts in to the services offered under subsection (1) shall be given a signed declaration by that service provider outlining the financial advice that the applicant has received.
(3) Any provider of a Lifetime ISA must confirm whether an applicant—
(a) intends to use the Lifetime ISA for the purposes of paragraph 7(1)(b) of Schedule 1,
(b) has a signed declaration of financial advice under subsection (2), or
(c) is enrolled on a workplace pension scheme or is self-employed.
(4) Where the provider determines that the applicant is—
(a) self-employed and does not participate in a pension scheme,
(b) not enrolled on a workplace pension scheme,
(c) does not intend to use the Lifetime ISA for the purposes of paragraph 7(1)(b) of Schedule 1, or
(d) does not have a signed declaration of financial advice under subsection (2),
the provider must inform the applicant about the independent financial advice available to them under subsection (1).’
This new clause would place a duty on the Treasury to make regulations that ensure all applicants for a Lifetime ISA have independent financial advice made available to them.
New clause 4—First-time residential purchase: research and impact assessment—
‘(1) Within one year of this Act coming into force the Treasury must conduct a review into the potential impact of provisions within paragraph 7(1)(b) of Schedule 1 on—
(a) house prices in the UK, and
(b) the operation of the housing market.
(2) The findings of the review must be made publicly available and laid before Parliament.’
This new clause would require a review of the Bill’s effect on the UK housing market/house prices.
New clause 5—Distributional analysis of the impact of the Lifetime ISA and Help to Save—
‘(1) Within six months of this Act coming into force the Treasury must conduct an analysis of the distribution of benefits of Lifetime ISAs and Help-to-Save accounts including between—
(a) households at different levels of income,
(b) people of different genders,
(c) people with disabilities, and
(d) black and minority ethnic groups.
(2) The findings of the analysis conducted under subsection (1) must be laid before Parliament.’
New clause 6—Lifetime ISA and Help-to-Save: value for money—
‘(1) Within six months of this Act coming into force the Treasury must assess the value for money provided by the Lifetime ISA and Help-to-Save scheme.
(2) The assessment must in particular include—
(a) the cost to the Exchequer of the measures,
(b) the number of individuals who have benefited from the measures, and
(c) the average tax deduction received by an individual as a result of the measures.
(3) The findings of the assessment must be made publicly available.’
New clause 7—Advice for applicants—
‘The Treasury must make provision by regulations to ensure all providers of Lifetime ISAs or Help-to-Save accounts provide applicants, at the point of application, with advice about the suitability of the product in question for each individual applicant.’
This new clause would require advice to be provided to applicants for LISAs or Help-to-Save accounts which must include information on automatic enrolment and workplace saving schemes.
Amendment 15, in clause 1, page 1, line 1, leave out clause 1.
See explanatory statement for amendment 16.
Amendment 17, in clause 3, page 2, line 17, leave out “1 or”.
Amendment 18, page 2, line 19, leave out “Lifetime ISA or”.
Amendment 19, page 2, line 23, leave out “Lifetime ISA or”.
Amendment 20, in clause 4, page 2, leave out lines 32 to 36.
Amendment 21, page 3, leave out lines 9 to 11.
Amendment 22, in clause 5, page 3, leave out line 23.
Amendment 6, in clause 6, page 3, line 36, leave out from “on” to end of line 37 and insert “30 April 2019”.
This amendment would delay the commencement of the Bill until the end of April 2019, when all firms will be auto-enrolled and the increase in minimum contributions to eight per cent. will be completed.
Amendment 16, page 5, line 1, leave out schedule 1.
This amendment, together with amendments 15 and 17 to 22, would remove provisions for the Lifetime ISA from the Bill.
Government amendment 3.
Amendment 1, in schedule 2, page 16, line 3, leave out “48” and insert “24”.
Amendment 12, page 16, line 31, at end insert—
“(1A) The conditions specified under subsection (1) shall not include the condition that the individual be over 25 years old if that individual meets all other specified conditions relating to the working tax credit.”
Currently those aged under 25 only qualify for Working Tax Credits if they work at least 16 hours a week. This amendment would ensure any individual aged under 25 would qualify for a Help-to-Save account if they met other specified criteria.
Amendment 2, page 17, line 36, at end insert—
“(d) a credit union.”
Amendment 8, page 18, line 16, leave out “maximum” and insert “average”.
See explanatory statement for amendment 11.
Amendment 9, page 18, line 19, leave out “maximum” and insert “average”.
See explanatory statement for amendment 11.
Amendment 10, page 18, line 19, after “means”, insert “an average of”.
See explanatory statement for amendment 11.
Amendment 11, page 18, line 19, after “£50”, insert
“across every two month period within the maturity period”.
Together with amendments 8, 9 and 10, this amendment would allow HTS to provide for “top-up” monthly payments above £50 so long as the average payment for every two months is £50.
Government amendment 4.
Amendment 14, page 19, line 2, at end insert—
“(e) provision for eligible persons to be auto-enrolled into Help-to-Save accounts through deductions from salaries or benefit entitlements unless the individual chooses to opt-out.”
This amendment would enable an ‘auto-enrolment’ workplace saving scheme which would see an individual automatically signed up to a Help-to-Save account. He or she must opt-out to stop money being deducted from their pay or benefits into a savings account.
Government amendment 5.
Amendment 13, page 19, line 31, at end insert—
“(3A) Where a bankruptcy order is made against a person with a Help-to-Save account any bonus paid into the Help-to-Save account will not form part of a debtor’s estate during insolvency proceedings.
(3B) Any bonus paid into a Help-to-Save account shall not be liable to be taken as repayment via third party debt orders.”
Amendment 7, page 20, line 23, at end insert—
“(ba) for a bonus in respect of a Help-to-Save account to be paid after six calendar months beginning with the calendar month in which the account is opened and at six month intervals thereafter;”.
This amendment would reduce the time before the holder of a Help to Save account would receive a government bonus to six months.
Mr Thomas
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak not only to new clause 1, but to amendments 1 and 2. I should declare an interest as a member of the M4Money credit union and as chair of the all-party group on mutuals.
New clause 1 seeks to give a statutory right to anyone wanting to save with a credit union via payroll deduction. Amendment 1 would reduce to one year the two years that those who are just about managing will wait before getting the Government top-up under Help to Save, to better incentivise saving under the scheme. Amendment 2, about which I shall speak a little more first, seeks to allow credit unions to offer the Help to Save product.
I took part in the Second Reading debate and raised the concern that credit unions would not be allowed to offer the Help to Save product. I have read through the transcripts of that debate and of the Committee proceedings and I can still see no good reason for the Government’s resistance to allowing credit unions to offer the Help to Save scheme. I recognise that Ministers want to ensure national coverage of Help to Save so that everyone who meets the criteria—the potentially 3.5 million people across the UK who Ministers think might do so—regardless of where they live can access the scheme. That clearly makes sense. I have no objection to the choice of National Savings & Investments as that national provider of choice. What I cannot see is any valid reason why credit unions cannot be allowed to complement the NS&I offer.
Mr Speaker
The final words in respect of this group of amendments are for the hon. Member for Harrow West (Mr Thomas).
Mr Gareth Thomas
This debate has been short but interesting. I hope that Members will forgive me if I confine my brief remarks to the three amendments tabled in my name. My hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy) made a characteristically excellent speech dwelling on the debt tsunami coming our way. She rightly alluded to the challenges that many credit unions face in providing a service through local employers to their employees.
My hon. Friend the Member for Bootle (Peter Dowd) made an excellent speech from the Front Bench—perhaps inspired by listening to the works of Shostakovich, of whom he is a devotee. Given the numbers who might be eligible, he is rightly worried that the number of people who sign up for Help to Save will not be as great if credit unions are not included among the providers that can offer Help to Save.
I was interested by the Minister’s response, and I hear her concerns about new clause 1, which I look forward to exploring more in a meeting with the Economic Secretary to the Treasury. I was grateful to hear the Minister offer some reassurance on amendment 1 and the possible reduction to 12 months from 24 months. As a result, I will not press amendment 1 or new clause 1 to a Division.
I will, however, seek a vote on amendment 2 because I gently suggest to the Minister that she did not make a convincing case as to why credit unions should not be allowed to offer this product. It is clear that NS&I will be a good national provider, but it is unclear why credit unions cannot be given the opportunity to offer the product at the same time. Given all the effort and expense that the Treasury is going to, it seems odd not to take advantage of the opportunity that credit unions can provide to get more people signed up. In that spirit, I intend to press amendment 2 to a vote, but I will not press new clause 1 or amendment 1.
Clause, by leave, withdrawn.
New Clause 2
Impact review: automatic enrolment and pensions savings
‘(1) The Treasury must review the impact of Lifetime ISAs on workplace pensions automatic enrolment and pensions savings within one year of this Act coming into force and every year thereafter.
(2) The conclusions of the review must be made publicly available and laid before Parliament.’—(Peter Dowd.)
This new clause would place a duty on HMRC to review annually the impact of Lifetime ISAs on automatic enrolment.
Brought up, and read the First time.
Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.
Point of Order
Debate between Gareth Thomas and John Bercow(8 years, 2 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text
Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. During International Development questions this morning, the Secretary of State said that she would make an announcement on future funding of the global fund at some point next week. It is true that the global fund replenishment conference will take place next week and therefore represents a hard deadline, but given the scale of taxpayers’ funding that is at stake—up to £1.2 billion, hopefully—should not we in the House of Commons, representative as we are of the British taxpayer’s interests, be informed before any briefings are made to the media or to other countries?
Mr Speaker
It is a matter for Ministers. Announcements can be made during recess periods, and frequently are, but if the Government know what they intend to announce, I would hope that they would be sensitive to the prior claim of Members of this House to be informed first, rather than the information being disseminated through the media or to some other less deserving source. I hope that that deals with the issue for now; I am genuinely grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising it.
These matters usually end up having to be announced to the House anyway. We had a case of that some days ago, when, frankly, it would have been better for an earlier statement to be made to the House on grammar schools. It was not made as early as it should have been, but when it was eventually delivered to the House, I did ensure that everyone questioned the relevant Minister, and a considerable allocation was therefore required. It is always better, really, if the Government anticipate these things in the first place, rather than waiting until later than is necessary.
Bills Presented
Small Charitable Donations and Childcare Payments
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
Mr Chancellor of the Exchequer, supported by Secretary Karen Bradley, Mr David Gauke, Jane Ellison, Simon Kirby, Caroline Dinenage and Mr Rob Wilson, presented a Bill to make provision about the payment schemes established by the Small Charitable Donations Act 2012 and the Childcare Payments Act 2014.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time tomorrow, and to be printed (Bill 68) with explanatory notes (Bill 68-EN).
Health Services Commissioning (Equality and Accountability)
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
Rehman Chishti presented a Bill to make provision to reduce inequalities in the health care received by people with mental illness and learning disabilities; to require commissioners of health services to make an annual report to the Secretary of State on the equality of service provision to, and the health outcomes for, such people and of their qualitative experience of health care services; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 2 December, and to be printed (Bill 67).
Air Quality (Diesel Emissions in Urban Centres)
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
Geraint Davies, supported by Mrs Margaret Ritchie, Rob Marris, Alex Cunningham, Thangam Debbonaire and Tulip Siddiq, presented a Bill to make provision about urban air quality targets relating to diesel emissions; to require vehicle emissions targets and testing to reflect on-road driving conditions; to make the removal or disablement of pollution-reducing devices in vehicles a criminal offence; to provide powers for local authorities to establish low diesel emissions zones and pedestrian-only areas and to restrict the use of roads in urban centres by diesel vehicles; to promote the development of trams, buses and taxis powered by electricity or hydrogen in urban centres for the purpose of improving air quality; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 18 November, and to be printed (Bill 69).
Sugar in Food and Drinks (Targets, Labelling and Advertising)
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
Geraint Davies, supported by Graham Jones, Alex Cunningham, Julie Cooper, Louise Haigh, Mark Durkan, Tommy Sheppard, Sir David Amess, Dr Philippa Whitford and Dr Julian Lewis, presented a Bill to require the Secretary of State to set targets for sugar content in food and drinks; to provide that added sugar content on food and drink labelling be represented in terms of the number of teaspoonfuls of sugar; to provide for standards of information provision in advertising of food and drinks; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 4 November, and to be printed (Bill 70).
Profit-sharing and Company Governance (Employees’ Participation)
Debate between Gareth Thomas and John Bercow(8 years, 10 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text
Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
I beg to move,
That leave be given to bring in a Bill to make provision about the entitlement of employees to benefit from profits made by their employers in certain circumstances; to require a company to allocate one seat on its board to an employee representative; and for connected purposes.
If an employee works hard for a company and helps it succeed and make a profit, surely the owners should share a little of that profit with them and with other employees. The best companies already do that. Indeed, the best companies also want their staff involved in decision making at the highest level, using their knowledge and expertise to help plot company strategy and keep senior management on their toes.
In truth, Britain has a productivity and fairness problem. Despite numerous initiatives, we are behind our main competitors in terms of productivity, while inequality continues to grow. Changing the way companies work—how they take key decisions and who is involved in them—is essential for sorting those problems out. We lag behind the rest of the G7 and most of the G20 in how productive our economy is. Indeed, between 2010 and 2014, annual average labour productivity was lower in Britain than in any other G20 or G7 country. While executive pay has shot up in recent years, the incomes of the rest of the workforce have struggled to keep pace, even with historically low inflation.
Part of the solution involves sharing a little more of the power and profits of big business with staff at all levels. Companies such as John Lewis share some of the profits they make with all their staff, giving the most junior as well as the most senior direct incentives to work even harder, think imaginatively and go the extra mile. Employees also get to help choose the board, again giving staff direct responsibility for selecting those at the very top whose decisions they will have to follow. Ensuring that the concerns of staff are heard at the top table is particularly important, as staff depend on a stable business for their livelihood. Absent owners or disengaged shareholders may have other priorities.
In countries such as France and Germany, this “shared capitalism” is a stand-out feature of business practice. Companies such as Deutsche Bank have staff on their German board who play an important and positive role. In France, firms with 50 or more employees benefit from up to 5% of profits being shared with all staff except recent arrivals. Indeed, French Governments of all political persuasions, right and left, have a long history of encouraging profit sharing among French companies; I understand that laws on profit sharing have existed in France for more than 50 years, requiring a mandatory profit-sharing scheme to be negotiated with French employees. Companies in France can choose to distribute rewards, either as a flat rate to employees, in proportion to wages, in proportion to the hours worked in the previous year, or through a scheme based on a combination of those principles. Arguably, the prevalence of profit sharing makes an important contribution to higher levels of productivity in France. Between 2010 and 2014, France had a level of productivity per hour almost double that of the UK.
Having employees on boards is the norm in many other successful countries. For example, in Denmark, France, Finland, Norway, Sweden and Germany at least one director is elected by the employees. In Norway—favoured by some for being outside the European Union—once a business has 30 employees, one director has to be chosen by the workforce. In Sweden, another key UK ally, once a company has 25 employees, around a third of directors have to be workers in the business. IKEA, that staple of the British high street, has worker directors on its Swedish board. In France, private companies with 1,000 or more employees, or 5,000 or more if they are worldwide, must have at least one or two staff on the board, while a third of all board members for state-owned companies are elected by the staff. In Germany, a third of the supervising board in companies with 500 or more employees are staff, but that rises to half in companies with more than 2,000 employees.
For a long time, this country has been happy quietly to endorse having workers on boards, so long as they are overseas businesses. EDF, France’s leading nuclear energy company, which is in the process of being handed the keys to Hinkley Point, has a board in which one third of members are elected by its workers. Indeed, as a French company, EDF also has a profit-sharing scheme. Deutsche Bahn, which runs much of our rail network through its subsidiaries, has six directors elected by its staff. Even though both companies are key players in British markets, particularly in England, English workers in those companies do not get to vote for board members; it is only German and French staff who do. In short, if German, French and Swedish workers are good enough to sit on a company board, is it not time that British and English workers were given their chance, too?
A number of companies operating in tough markets in the UK have demonstrated that employee directors work. John Lewis is one, and FTSE 100 company First Group is another. Mick Barker is the employee director of First Group. He has been a railway man for 39 years and is employed as a train driver for First Great Western. He serves on its board and various other key bodies. Indeed, First Group encourages its operating companies across the UK and north America to elect employee directors to their boards so that, in its words,
“the views and opinions of staff are represented at the highest level”.
In the UK, concerns about high levels of executive pay and falling workers’ wages have led to some debate about broadening the membership of the remuneration committees of big companies to include staff. Indeed, the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills considered reforming remuneration committees in 2011, but sadly nothing happened. Analysis by the House of Commons Library suggests that if a French-style profit-sharing system was introduced in the UK, corporate household names could be allocating to their staff an extra £500 to £1,200 a year once profits have been declared. Those are not huge sums of money to those at the very top of those businesses, but it would help to reward better the collective hard work required for any business to succeed.
That would neither add to business costs, nor undermine pay differentials between skilled and unskilled workers, or between founder and recent employees, but it would offer an incentive to all to co-operate together to support business success and achieve higher returns for both staff and owners alike. As the Institute for Public Policy Research has noted, if every private sector company in the UK with 500 or more employees had a profit-sharing scheme, over 8 million people in 3,000 British firms could benefit from hundreds of pounds a year extra.
Company law needs to change to reflect modern Britain. Employees’ crucial stake in the success of their employer needs recognition in law. It is about strong businesses, better rewards for staff, higher productivity and a less unequal country. The Bill is a step towards those ambitions, and I commend it to the House.
Question put and agreed to.
Ordered,
That Mr Gareth Thomas, Chris Evans, Meg Hillier, Mr Steve Reed, Mrs Louise Ellman, Mr Adrian Bailey, Rachael Maskell, Stephen Twigg, Mr Mark Hendrick, Stephen Doughty, Kate Osamor and John Woodcock present the Bill.
Mr Gareth Thomas accordingly presented the Bill.
Bill read the First time; to be a Second time on Friday 11 March, and to be printed (Bill 124).
CHARITIES (PROTECTION AND SOCIAL INVESTMENT) BILL [LORDS] (Ways and Means)
Resolved,
That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Charities (Protection and Social Investment) Bill [Lords], it is expedient to authorise:
(1) the charging of fees; and
(2) the payment of sums into the Consolidated Fund.—(Mr Rob Wilson.)
CHARITIES (PROTECTION AND SOCIAL INVESTMENT) BILL [LORDS]: PROGRAMME (No. 2)
Ordered,
That the Order of 3 December 2015 (Charities (Protection and Social Investment) Bill [Lords] (Programme)) be varied as follows:
(1) Paragraphs (4) and (5) of the Order shall be omitted.
(2) Proceedings on Consideration shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion two hours before the moment of interruption on the day on which those proceedings are commenced.
(3) Proceedings in Legislative Grand Committee shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour before the moment of interruption on that day.
(4) Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption on that day.—(Mr Rob Wilson.)
Mr Speaker
I remind the House that at the end of the Report stage, I am required to consider the Bill, as amended on Report, for certification. My provisional certificate is available on the “Bills before Parliament” website and in the Vote Office.
National Health Service and Care Sector Workers (Credit Union and High Cost Credit)
Debate between Gareth Thomas and John Bercow
Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
I beg to move,
That leave be given to bring in a Bill to require the Secretary of State to promote membership of a credit union for staff employed by the NHS, other care sector workers, and family members who live in the same household; to facilitate payroll deductions for staff employed by the NHS and other care sector workers who are members of credit unions and to report regularly to Parliament on compliance with these requirements; to place a duty on payday lenders to encourage staff employed by the NHS and other care sector workers to take advice on debt management before acquiring high cost credit; to require the Financial Conduct Authority to report annually on payday lenders’ compliance with this requirement; and for connected purposes.
The Bill is designed to ensure that NHS and other care staff have access to low-cost loans and other low-cost financial services and, as a result, are not vulnerable to high-interest payday loan companies or at risk of mounting debt costs from using credit cards or bank overdrafts. I should declare at the outset that I am a member of my local credit union, M for Money, and also the excellent Rainbow Saver credit union.
For those who are in work and on a low income, debt is an ever-constant fear. One major unexpected financial problem—perhaps the cost of a funeral or a relationship breakdown—can push people into financial difficulty and put them at risk of using high-cost sources of credit, such as unauthorised bank overdrafts, the charges on which can be crippling financially, or other high-interest credit, such as that offered by payday loan companies or credit card companies.
According to the debt charity, StepChange, 6 million adults are using credit to see them through to pay day, and 3 million adults are using credit just to keep up to date with existing debt repayments. These debts are overwhelmingly because of financial hardship, and not over-the-top consumption. Indeed, some economists have suggested that this problem debt could be as high as £50 billion in the UK at the moment. It is a huge social and economic issue. Some of those in trouble with debt work for the NHS or other care services. We in this House surely have a responsibility to do what we can to help those looking after our most vulnerable citizens so that they are not going off to work worried about whether they can make ends meet.
The living wage and higher minimum wages are undoubtedly one part of the answer to the low pay crisis in the UK, but expanding credit unions is another part of the solution too. Sarah is a 44 year-old community nurse with a daughter who is now six years old. In 2010, her husband left, which, quite apart from anything else, left her in real financial difficulty. Up until the separation, Sarah’s income paid the rent, food and nursery fees, while her husband paid for the council tax and fuel bills. When he left, Sarah had to try to find an additional several hundred pounds a month to make ends meet. She found herself getting deeper and deeper into debt and had to face bailiffs coming to her door. She could not afford to pay her daughter’s nursery fees and, rather than have her thrown out, she decided to get a payday loan. Soon she found this loan impossible to pay back and subsequently ended up with five loans with different companies, totalling around £6,000. The stress as a result has been considerable. If Sarah had joined a credit union, linked to her employer, the interest on the loans she paid would have been nothing like as high as she had to pay using payday loans.
I have been given similar examples of nurses and care staff who have got into considerable debt as a result of high-cost credit. To indicate the scale of the problem, the Royal College of Nursing Foundation has reported a 20% increase in applications for hardship grants compared with 2012. In 2012, its average grant was £422; by this year, the figure had risen to £600, which is a 30% increase.
A credit union is a financial co-operative. Members save money with their credit unions and those deposits are used to make loans at far cheaper rates than the high-cost credit offered by payday loan firms, for example. Credit unions help to keep money in communities and offer cheap financial services. In short, this is about people in one community—in this case a workplace community—looking out for each other and pooling their money so that everyone can get a better service.
There are already many successful credit unions in the UK, including police credit unions, Plane Saver, the former British Airways credit union, and London Mutual Credit Union, which has more than 15,000 member-owners and which offers, among its crucial financial services, an affordable payday loan service. For a 30-day payday loan, London Mutual typically charges an interest rate of 27% or £19. For the same loan, a commercial payday loan company could charge in excess of 5,000% or £127 —in short, the loan would be £100 more expensive.
Some credit unions already have a relationship with NHS staff in their areas, but there is not one established credit union serving all NHS and care staff. Little publicity is put out in hospitals and care homes, or by other employers of care staff, to encourage staff to join a credit union. An NHS credit union that was recognised by NHS England would provide a central opportunity for NHS staff to access all the benefits that credit union membership can offer.
If Ministers cannot be persuaded at this point to support an NHS credit union, perhaps they could offer clear guidance to all NHS employers and other care providers that they should offer payroll deduction facilities to help staff who want to join a credit union, and that they should encourage advertising by local credit unions to make staff aware of the benefits of credit union membership.
Credit unions themselves need more sympathetic support from mainstream banks. While several banks are giving financial support, and some branches are signposting to credit unions those whom they have turned down for help, that is small beer, frankly, and the Financial Conduct Authority and the Prudential Regulation Authority should be demanding more from the banks. Credit unions that want to earn interest on their holdings in the UK’s mainstream banks often get very poor rates compared with social enterprises and charities. Given the huge amounts that the banks have received through quantitative easing, I hope that the PRA will undertake a quick review of this issue to determine whether credit unions could be given a better deal.
I am grateful to the RCN, Unison, Citizens Advice and the GMB for their interest in the Bill and for supplying me with case studies of real people hit by debt problems in the NHS and the care sector whom they have helped, and for whom a credit union could have made a significant difference. I suspect that debt and low pay are common themes in many of our surgeries, and we undoubtedly need a significant expansion of credit unions. An NHS credit union would represent an especially powerful way of providing debt assistance to those who do such crucial work in our communities for our most vulnerable, so I commend the Bill to the House.
Question put and agreed to.
Mr Thomas
A particularly talented and handsome group, Mr Speaker, with the exception to that classification being myself.
Ordered,
That Mr Gareth Thomas, Stella Creasy, Mr Virendra Sharma, Stephen Pound, John Cryer, Barry Gardiner, Seema Malhotra, Rushanara Ali, Mr Andrew Love, Mr Adrian Bailey, Meg Hillier and Lyn Brown present the Bill.
Mr Gareth Thomas accordingly presented the Bill.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 6 March 2015 and to be printed (Bill 123).
Points of Order
Debate between Gareth Thomas and John Bercow(10 years, 4 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Speaker
But I think we will have to leave it there on that matter for now.
Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Ministers had, by this morning, still not confirmed that this House would be able to scrutinise the British nominee to the next European Commission, the noble Lord Hill, before the European Parliament does so in September. That would be an EU reform that the Prime Minister would not need any other country to agree to. I wondered whether you had had any confirmation of such a process being allowed in future?
Mr Speaker
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman both for his point of order and for his courtesy in giving me advance notice of it. The hon. Gentleman will know well that the matter of pre-appointment hearings for ministerial nominees to various public offices is what I think I can best describe as a developing area of parliamentary scrutiny. There have been many exchanges between the Liaison Committee and the Government on this matter. No doubt those exchanges will continue, but it is not a matter for the Chair in the House; nor am I in a position to offer the hon. Gentleman any information beyond that which he already possesses.
That said, if the hon. Gentleman happens to have some spare time and would care to read my Michael Ryle memorial lecture, which now features on the parliamentary website and which I delivered, if memory serves me correctly, at the end of June in Speaker’s House, he might find it a satisfying read. What is for sure is that he will find that I do myself have some views on that matter. We will leave it there for now.
If there are no further points of order, we come to the ten-minute rule motion.
Point of Order
Debate between Gareth Thomas and John Bercow
Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Many will think it odd that the Prime Minister’s choice for Britain’s next EU Commissioner will be scrutinised by the European Parliament, but that there appear to be no plans to allow the British people, through this House, to examine their suitability. Have you had any indication that Ministers might support such parliamentary scrutiny on this occasion?
Mr Speaker
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order, of which I did not have advance notice. The short answer is that I am not aware of any intention for arrangements to be different on this occasion from those which have applied in the past. However, the point has been aired. It will have been heard at any rate by the Government Chief Whip, who sits impassively and in languid fashion on the Treasury Bench, but I feel sure that it can be the subject of a private conversation between the hon. Gentleman and the Government Chief Whip if both are so minded. The latter part of that sentence is at least as important as the former.
Credit Union (Armed Forces)
Debate between Gareth Thomas and John Bercow(10 years, 11 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text
Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
I beg to move,
That leave be given to bring in a Bill to provide for the establishment of a credit union for members of the armed forces and family members who live in the same household; and for connected purposes.
The Bill is designed to ensure that our soldiers, sailors and Air Force personnel on lower incomes have access to low-cost loans and other low-cost financial services and, as a result, are not vulnerable to high-interest payday loan businesses. I should declare at the outset that I am a member of my local credit union, M for Money, which serves my constituency in Harrow, and also of the Rainbow Saver credit union.
Credit unions are financial co-operatives. They are one powerful demonstration of how through pooling our efforts and through co-operation with others, we can each become better off. Those of us who champion credit unions have always believed that what makes them different from other financial services providers is not just the lower interest rates they offer, but their mission to operate for the benefit of their communities, to retain money in local economies and to empower people, especially those often unable to access credit elsewhere. Key to credit unions is a common bond between the members, who in turn are the investors and consumers—indeed, they can also serve as directors. It is, in essence, about people in the same community looking out for each other but benefiting directly themselves from a service that they are able to provide together.
As many in this House will recognise, many successful credit unions are already operating in the UK: the police credit union has 21,000 members, has been going for 10 years and has Lord Stevens, the former head of the Metropolitan police, as its president; the former British Airways credit union, which is now known as Plane Saver and covers more than just British Airways, has more than 7,500 staff as members; and the London mutual credit union, with its origins in Southwark, has more than 15,000 member owners, and offers competitive online and affordable payday loan services. For a 30-day, £400 payday loan, the LMCU charges, typically, an interest rate of 27%, or £19. For the same loan, a commercial payday loan company might charge an annual percentage rate of 5,600%, or £127. In short, it might be £108 more expensive for the same amount over the same period. That shows the kind of service that should specifically be available to our servicemen and women, and their families: a low-cost credit union. Only a credit union—a financial co-operative—would be able to offer such a service.
My Bill specifically draws inspiration from the biggest and most successful credit union in the world. A rear-admiral of the US navy and former commander of the American enterprise battle group is probably not the most obvious enthusiast for financial co-operatives, yet Rear-Admiral Cutler Dawson is president and chief executive officer of Navy Federal, the world’s largest credit union. It is based in the United States and serves all Department of Defence and Coast Guard active duty, civilian and contractor personnel, and their families. Rear-Admiral Dawson previously served in the United States navy for some 34 years.
Navy Federal was founded by its members in 1933, when soldiers returning from war were unable to access affordable credit. It now offers a service to US special forces, navy cooks, veterans and the families of servicemen and women. In the US, payday lenders used to target military bases, trying to hook American sailors and soldiers with their high-cost financial services, yet Navy Federal is able to offer some of the most highly competitive financial services in the US market. Indeed, Navy Federal now holds some $55 billion in assets, and has some 4 million members, 235 branches around the world and a work force of more than 11,000 employees. Surely our soldiers, sailors, airmen and women, and their families, could benefit from a similar credit union.
My Bill aims to address the growing fears that low-paid service personnel are having to turn to payday loan companies to get through the last week of each month. Research by the Royal British Legion found that about a third of veterans, including almost half of the recently injured, experience financial difficulties, leading many into unaffordable levels of debt. The RBL’s dedicated benefits and money advice service helped some 2,500 people in its first year, 2007, but last year that figure rose to more than 11,000 Army personnel being helped out, and the RBL predicts that the figure will keep rising.
We know from the Debt Advice Foundation that one in four people who take out payday loans need the money to buy food or essentials, with 44% using them to pay off other debts. Similarly, Citizens Advice research has shown a fourfold rise in just two years in the number of people coming to their citizens advice bureau with debt problems as a result of taking out payday loans. I have spoken to the chief executives of many citizens advice bureaux located close to military bases and I have heard about some of our soldiers and sailors who are facing real financial difficulties. One serving Army soldier who was living in MOD accommodation with his wife and children had two payday loans, one for £435 and one for £375, both due for payment at the beginning of the month. If he failed to repay the loans in full, he incurred an £80 charge for deferring them. He was in a vicious circle. If he repaid the loans, he was left without sufficient funds to finance his monthly expenditure and again had to take out a payday loan to manage until the end of the month.
It is a story that many of us will have heard time and again in our own constituency surgeries—a small loan that, through huge interest rates, gets bigger and bigger. Of course it is true that families across the UK are feeling the pinch, and we need a major expansion in the promotion of and access to credit unions across the UK. A levy on the profits of the payday lenders could help to drive that expansion of low-cost financial services that credit unions offer. I hope the House will recognise that serving personnel and veterans face particular challenges. Surely it is time to inject new energy into the credit union market and take the steps necessary to address this particular problem for our soldiers and sailors.
I must give some credit to the Government. There has been some interest in this matter from the Ministry of Defence, but I say gently that it is at best tentative. Ministers need to show more enthusiasm and energy for this most basic of services that our troops should be able to expect. When US soldiers, sailors and marines are on active service duty, they can focus on their day job without worrying about their financial affairs at home. The British armed forces surely deserve the same support. I commend this Bill to the House.
Question put and agreed to.
Mr Speaker
Usually we are content with a factual list, rather than a Member putting a divisible proposition to the House, but we will manage; it is Christmas.
Ordered,
That Mr Gareth Thomas, Mr Andrew Love, Meg Hillier, Stella Creasy, Mrs Louise Ellman, Seema Malhotra, Mr Adrian Bailey, Stephen Twigg, Tom Greatrex, Stephen Doughty, Mr Ian Davidson and Mr Steve Reed present the Bill.
Mr Gareth Thomas accordingly presented the Bill.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 28 February 2014, and to be printed (Bill 148).
European Union (Referendum) Bill
Debate between Gareth Thomas and John Bercow(10 years, 12 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have evidence that the Foreign Secretary, possibly, and certainly the Minister for Europe, are not 100% committed to the 2017 date, and have already considered scenarios in which that supposed commitment could be scrapped.
Mr Lidington
I think the answer to the intervention is closely related to comments I want to make about the amendment tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Windsor (Adam Afriyie), and by Opposition Members, which seeks to bring the date of the referendum forward from 2017, at the latest, to a date in 2014. In responding to those amendments, and accepting the good faith in which they were tabled—
Points of Order
Debate between Gareth Thomas and John Bercow
Mr Speaker
I am sorry to learn of what the hon. Gentleman has described in his point of order. What I would say to him is twofold. First, the Deputy Leader of the House is present on the Treasury Bench and will have heard the point that he has made. Secondly, there will be an opportunity in the upcoming general debate before the Adjournment for Members to raise this matter if they so wish. No other obvious remedies are available today, but if the hon. Gentleman wishes to have recourse to the Order Paper via the Table Office, I feel sure that he will do so.
Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I tabled a round robin question on 4 December last year asking how many computers, mobile telephones, BlackBerrys and other pieces of IT equipment had been lost or stolen in 2010-11 and 2011-12. I have received answers from every Department apart from the Cabinet Office. It was due to answer on 6 December. I chased an answer on 16 January and expected an answer on 21 January. I raised the matter at business questions on 7 February and the Leader of the House very kindly promised to endeavour to get me an answer. I still have not received an answer. What other options are available to me to try to hold this overbearing Executive to account?
Points of Order
Debate between Gareth Thomas and John Bercow(12 years, 2 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text
Mr Speaker
That could be said to be a point of order, but I always view any paragraphs from the hon. Gentleman as a kind of treatise, and I think that it would be as well for me to reflect upon his treatise before I respond to him, and not to make any rash commitment today. These are matters that he and the hon. Member for West Bromwich East (Mr Watson) are especially, and very properly, given to pursuing, on the basis of considerable research and knowledge. I will do him the courtesy of further reflection, and I will revert to him and, if necessary, to the House.
Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Human Rights Watch has recently published further evidence of failed Tamil asylum seekers who have been deported from the UK by the UK Border Agency being tortured on their return to Sri Lanka. The whole House wants to ensure that this country has strong immigration policies in place, and that they are adhered to, but it will surely also be concerned about those reports of torture. Have you heard of any possibility of a written statement from the Home Secretary, seeking to clarify her policy on the deportation of Tamil asylum seekers in the light of that new evidence?
Mr Speaker
I have not, but my hunch is that the hon. Gentleman will wish to pursue this matter further. The House will doubtless wait expectantly for that.
Health Transition Risk Register
Debate between Gareth Thomas and John Bercow(12 years, 6 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Speaker
Order. The difficulty with that question, although I am sure that it was sincerely intended, is that it relates to the policies of a previous Administration, for which of course the Secretary of State has no responsibility.
Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
Should the Information Commissioner and the tribunal decide to approve the release of other risk registers, be it those that cover other work by his Department or the work of other Departments, such as the Work programme, has the Cabinet already decided also to veto their release?
European Council
Debate between Gareth Thomas and John Bercow(12 years, 10 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I apologise for interrupting the debate, but my attention has been drawn to media reports about the future of RAF Northolt, which is next to my constituency. Apparently, there might be Government plans to develop RAF Northolt as an alternative to the Boris island airport, or as a satellite terminal for Heathrow. That is potentially of huge concern to my constituents, and I wonder whether you have received a statement from the Government setting out their real thinking.
Mr Speaker
I have received no indication from the Government of their intentions on this matter, but I have a hunch that the hon. Gentleman will pursue the issue doggedly and tenaciously.
Public Services (Social Value) Bill
Debate between Gareth Thomas and John Bercow(12 years, 12 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Mr Speaker
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
New clause 2—Local authority strategies—
'(1) Section 4 of the Local Government Act 2000 (strategies for promoting wellbeing) is amended as follows.
(2) After subsection (1) insert—
“(lA) A local authority’s sustainable community strategy must include—
(a) their proposals in connection with promoting engagement in social enterprise in their area; and
(b) a statement of measures proposed for enabling persons or bodies engaged in social enterprise in their area and such other persons as they consider appropriate to participate in the implementation of the proposals referred to in paragraph (a).”.
(3) After subsection (4) insert—
“(4A) For the purposes of this section a person or body is engaged in social enterprise if—
(a) the person or body is carrying on a business;
(b) the business’s activities are being carried on primarily for a purpose that promotes or improves the social or environmental wellbeing of the United Kingdom, whether the purpose is pursued in relation to all or any part of the United Kingdom or all or any of the persons resident or present in it; and
(c) the greater part of any profits for distribution is applied for such a purpose.’”.
New clause 3—Annual report to parliament—
'(1) The Secretary of State must prepare and publish an annual report on the operation of the Government’s strategy for social enterprises in the preceding year and must lay a copy of the report before Parliament.
(2) The Secretary of State must, during the preparation of each report, consult—
(a) the National Audit Office;
(b) the Charity Commission;
(c) Co-ops UK;
(d) the National Council for Voluntary Organisations;
(e) Social Enterprise UK;
(f) the Association for Chief Executives in Voluntary Organisations;
(g) the Office for National Statistics; and
(h) such other organisations or persons as the Secretary of State considers appropriate.
(3) Each report must include statistics on the performance of social enterprises.’.
Amendment 1, in clause 1, page 1, line 3 after first ‘of’, insert ‘goods and’.
Amendment 2, in clause 4, page 3, line 36, after ‘Services (’, insert ‘Social Enterprise and’.
Amendment 3, in title, line 1, at beginning insert—
‘To require the Secretary of State and local authorities to publish strategies in connection with promoting social enterprise; to enable communities to participate in the formulation and implementation of those strategies;’.
Amendment 4, in title, line 1, leave out from ‘Require’ to ‘and’ in line 2 and insert
‘that public sector contracts include provisions relating to social outcomes and social value;’.
Mr Thomas
I congratulate the hon. Member for Warwick and Leamington (Chris White) not only on his choice of subject but on the way in which he has steered the Bill through the House thus far.
The Opposition want a comprehensive change programme to boost social enterprise further. I hope to set out this morning a more ambitious approach to the Bill than the Government and the Minister, sadly, have been willing to countenance so far, but before I do so let me explain how my amendments seek to build on some of the issues raised in Committee.
In new clause 1, I have sought to respond to the appetite shown in Committee for more certainty about the definition of social enterprises, and in particular how an asset lock might be worked into the Bill. In new clause 3, I have sought to provide a clear means of encouraging the Government to be accountable for their work in social enterprises. Amendment 1 offers the Minister an opportunity to clarify the arguments that he used in Committee to justify the limited scope of the Bill in relation to commissioning.
In Committee, we had an interesting discussion about the merits or otherwise of a national strategy for social enterprise. I fear that the absence of a clear requirement for such a strategy poses the risk of a loss of momentum behind the sector when ministerial attention is diverted, as it inevitably will be. An example is the point of order on which you ruled earlier, Mr Speaker. No doubt ministerial attention has been diverted, quite rightly, to youth unemployment and the return of the future jobs fund in another guise. There is a risk that other issues might also divert Ministers’ attention from their commitments to social enterprises in the future, and a clear strategy would help to avoid any such loss of focus and interest.
I fear that things that could and should be done by other Whitehall Departments to help social enterprises cannot be done without a requirement for a cross-Whitehall strategy. I fear, too, that some parts of the country will miss out, and that many communities that could and should benefit from what social enterprise can offer will not be able do so because of the absence of a clear strategy framework for Whitehall’s work.
The Minister claimed in Committee that there was a strategy for social enterprise, and cited social investment as one part of that strategy. I must point out gently to him that he did not seem to be willing to give many more such examples. He did, however, go on to say that the Cabinet Office was working with the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, suggesting that that somehow proved that the whole of Whitehall was united behind work for social enterprises.
I believe that a strategy for social enterprise should touch on a series of issues. Access to finance is clearly a key issue, as are access to commissioning opportunities and the role that social enterprises can play in assisting the process of modernising our public services, making them more flexible and personal. Access to advice and support for fledgling or “wannabe” social enterprises is clearly a further aspect of such a strategy. Ongoing support and representation from—ghastly phrase—infrastructure organisations to help social enterprises to share best practice, to solve legal problems that they may face, or to tackle difficult human resource issues would also be worthy of inclusion.
A strategy could explore the scope for more work with, or indeed instead of, the private sector. It could also consider issues relating to coverage: which communities are likely to need more help to enable more social enterprises to emerge, and what should that help look like in practice? It could outline the role not only of other Whitehall Departments but non-Whitehall players in developing the Government’s endeavours to help social enterprise.
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Gareth Thomas and John Bercow
Mr Speaker
May I just remind the House that the question is specifically about the Open university? I know that that is what the hon. Gentleman on the Opposition Front Bench will be asking his question about.
Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
I am always grateful for your helpful advice, Mr Speaker.
As the Minister reflects on his important meeting with the vice-chancellor of the Open university this week and as he worries, too, about the number of would-be students set to be turned away from university this summer on his watch, can he tell the House which of the following he is most proud of? Is it the decisions that have already been taken by the Government to axe 24,000 student places? Is it his plan to axe another 20,000 places at quality universities in order to fund an auction to the lowest bidder? Or is it his claim that universities charging the full £9,000 would be the exception?
Higher Education White Paper
Debate between Gareth Thomas and John Bercow
Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
I am grateful to the Minister for advance sight of his statement. Is it not true that as higher education teaching has been cut by 80%, far more universities are charging £9,000 than the Government planned, causing huge political embarrassment for the Government and creating a funding crisis with the Treasury? Is not the real substance of the White Paper a desperate drive to cut fees, no matter what the effect on quality?
Is not the truth that this is another example of the Government’s failure to think things through, their disregard for the consequences, and the wrong choices being made for the country’s future? Is it not true that the Minister has slipped out on his Department’s website today a report on the impact on exports to this country of the proposal on tuition fees and of visa changes, suggesting that the total impact is some £8 billion of revenue lost to the UK?
It is
“difficult to recall a worse example of public policy making…wishful thinking has followed the apparent failure to do any serious modelling…the whole thing is a mess, and getting messier”—
not my words, but those of Sir Peter Scott, one of Britain’s leading experts on higher education and the former vice-chancellor of the Secretary of State’s local university. Is not the real truth that any expansion in university places is set to come on the cheap, with the Government cutting student places at the majority of universities—so much for student choice now—in order to fund the race to the bottom; an auction of places—who can charge the lowest?
The Prime Minister promised that universities charging the maximum would be the exception, yet is not the truth that two thirds of universities will charge the full £9,000? Is not that a devastating example of the neglect and incompetence that the Prime Minister routinely shows to the hopes and dreams of the next generation? The Secretary of State threatened to cut student places even more or university funding even further. Guaranteed places have been floated for those who want to buy their way in, and last-minute cut-price degrees. Almost 24,000 student places are already axed or are going. The Minister is in secret talks with the banks to help him out.
Forests, the national health service, prison sentences, universities today—it is “Carry on up the Khyber” in Whitehall, the Minister the latest to do the Hattie Jacques role. I am all for vigorous competition, but on for-profit higher education corporations, has he not been warned by both the Higher Education Funding Council and the Higher Education Policy Institute? Too many examples of the worst quality higher education, not for every student, but shocking drop-out rates, appalling degree completion rates, and aggressive recruitment practices that make pensions selling seem a walk in the park, are too often their norm.
The market has not protected against poor quality there. We need to be able to spot and stop students and their families being taken for a ride. Should not new providers have to prove themselves more rigorously, more regularly? How will making it easier to get university title and degree-awarding powers improve quality or the reputation and value of particular degrees, or boost the employability of those studying for such degrees? Nobody could be against the principle of an increase in places at high quality universities, but does it sit with the Secretary of State’s promises on social mobility when 50% of those getting AAB grades are from selective or independent schools? Will contextual data be truly embedded in university admissions or has he caved in to the Tory right?
How will the Secretary of State prevent, as the Institute of Physics has warned, students being deterred from studying the sciences or maths? Student charters and better information will be little compensation for trebling fees. I accept that there have to be safeguards, but will students be able to move courses with their loan intact if they realise that their course is not suitable or if their complaints are not taken seriously? Who will be the consumer champion—the representative of students and their families—at the new providers? Why should not students paying vastly increased fees know if their university has financial problems that might affect the quality of their teaching?
I welcome the end to at least one area of uncertainty today—the NHS bursary increasing for 2012-13—but what about future years? Why no certainty on that now? On research quality, why no mention that the rest of the world is increasing its science spending, yet here in the UK British researchers are having to cope with cuts of 40% or more in the funding to invest in world-class research facilities at our universities? Because of the bungled visa changes, universities face even more intense challenges to recruit the brightest and best research students and their lecturers to work with our brightest and best. No mention of cuts in funding for postgraduate courses or the impact on postgraduate recruitment of graduates leaving university with £40,000 worth of debt. Will we see as a result of his complacency a new divide opening up between those who have a postgraduate qualification and those who do not?
On the day it was revealed that 80 graduates are chasing every graduate job, which is double the figure for last year, all we got on university and business collaboration is a review. Where is the financial plan to incentivise universities to do more to stimulate new jobs in the industries of the future? Regional development agency funding has gone, HEFCE funding has been reduced and Technology Strategy Board funding has been squeezed, so this is yet another example of opportunities for economic growth being spurned, and of Ministers fiddling while Rome burns.
It could have been so different. Why were university cuts not in line with other public service cuts? Tuition fees would have been far lower, with no black hole, and chaos and confusion would have been avoided. Universities would have concentrated on getting their research and skills into businesses to drive jobs and new growth and there would have been a rigorous drive to ensure that every student gained employable skills. The Government did not need to leave the next generation of engineers, police officers and nurses having to pay so much more for so much longer. The Minister did not need—
Mr Speaker
Order. I should explain to the shadow Minister that his response should be no longer than half the expected length of a ministerial statement of 10 minutes, so I think that he is on his last sentence.
Mr Speaker
Order. I was being gentle about it. This is the hon. Gentleman’s last sentence, and it needs to be a short one.
Points of Order
Debate between Gareth Thomas and John Bercow(13 years, 8 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text
Mr Speaker
My understanding, off the top of my head, is that the hon. Gentleman is correct. He is an assiduous follower of the use of language, and I think that he will recall that in making my observation, I emphasised the importance of treating these matters with great care, and said that on the whole it is preferable if references to members of the royal family are both sparing and respectful. I think, however, that the entitlement to raise matters which, in a sense, he is pleading in evidence, is undisputed, and his understanding of “Erskine May” on this occasion—as, I have to admit, it is on most occasions—is notably accurate.
Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. As more and more universities are planning to do the Government’s bidding and charge the full £9,000 in tuition fees, last week the Government announced yet another delay to their higher education White Paper, and also raised the prospect of even deeper cuts to teaching and research funding. That White Paper, which has at its core the future of student numbers, is fundamental to the future financial health of our universities. Although it increasingly appears that it is being written by Walter Mitty, nevertheless it is surely the responsibility of the House to give it proper consideration. Can you bring any clarity to the House, Mr Speaker, as to when we might be able to debate that White Paper?
Mr Speaker
The short answer to the hon. Gentleman’s inquiry is no, but I note that the Leader of the House is in his place. The hon. Gentleman, who has become rather a seasoned professional at raising matters of this kind, the better to advance his case, has obviously decided that today should be no exception. He has registered his concerns very forcefully, and it may be that he will hasten the day when satisfaction becomes his due; we shall see.
If there are no further points of order, for which there has been quite an appetite after the half-term break—I suppose that that is to be expected—we now come to the main business, which is a debate on the big society. Before we get under way, perhaps I can explain a number of things. First, the amendment that was tabled has not been selected. Secondly, there will be a 15-minute limit on the opening Back-Bench speech, as the hon. Gentleman who is about to deliver it is aware. Thirdly, there will be an eight-minute limit on each subsequent Back-Bench speech.
Points of Order
Debate between Gareth Thomas and John Bercow(13 years, 10 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text
Mr Speaker
The short answer to the right hon. Gentleman’s challenge is no. It is, of course, for the Government to decide whether and when to put on a statement, but my answer stands. I hope that is helpful to the House.
Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Some of the brightest and best potential teachers risk being lost to our schools because universities do not know whether they will have places for them. In short, that is because universities that train future teachers do not know how many places for teacher training they will have, five months after the Teacher Development Agency should have told them. Is there anything you can do to end the confusion between the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills and the Department for Education on that issue, perhaps by securing a written statement on the matter?
Mr Speaker
The matter can of course be raised at business questions tomorrow. The Government will have heard what the hon. Gentleman has said. If any clarification is required, that is a matter for the Government. My concern now is to protect Opposition time.
BILL PRESENTED
Health and Social Care Bill
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
Mr Secretary Lansley, supported by the Prime Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister, Mr Chancellor of the Exchequer, Secretary Vince Cable, Secretary Michael Gove, Secretary Eric Pickles, Danny Alexander, Mr Simon Burns and Paul Burstow, presented a Bill to establish and make provision about a National Health Service Commissioning Board and commissioning consortia and to make other provision about the National Health Service in England; to make provision about public health in the United Kingdom; to make provision about regulating health and adult social care services; to make provision about public involvement in health and social care matters, scrutiny of health matters by local authorities and co-operation between local authorities and commissioners of health care services; to make provision about regulating health and social care workers; to establish and make provision about a National Institute for Health and Care Excellence; to establish and make provision about a Health and Social Care Information Centre and to make other provision about information relating to health or social care matters; to abolish certain public bodies involved in health or social care; to make other provision about health care; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time tomorrow, and to be printed (Bill 132) with explanatory notes (Bill 132-EN).
Points of Order
Debate between Gareth Thomas and John Bercow(13 years, 11 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text
Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Last Tuesday, the House debated the need for more information on higher education, including, crucially, on the access requirements that universities will have to meet in order to be able to charge the maximum £9,000 fee. According to press reports today, universities could be stripped of their right to charge students more than the lower level of tuition fees, yet actually, that sanction already exists, and guidance referred to in media reports suggests that there are no new changes to the legal constraints on university powers. Many people will wonder whether any university wanting to charge the full £9,000 will really be held back from doing so in practice. What steps can you take, Mr Speaker, to ensure that the House has a full and, crucially, accurate picture of the Government’s plans for higher education before Thursday’s vote on tuition fees?
Mr Speaker
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman both for his point of order and for advance notice of it. The short answer to his question is that there will be an exchange on this matter on Thursday. I have every expectation that the full details of policy will be communicated, teased out, debated and made the subject of proper political argument. That, I think, is the most hopeful reassurance I can offer the hon. Gentleman. I have not received notice of any other ministerial statement, and I should not have expected to do so, but the opportunity presented later this week is one that I am sure he and others are eagerly anticipating.
Business without Debate
Debate between Gareth Thomas and John Bercow(13 years, 11 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Speaker
Order. I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his point of order. The concern of the Chair is always that matters should be handled in an orderly manner. [Interruption.] Order. That has happened, whatever the disquiet or consternation the right hon. Gentleman or others may feel. I know that he will understand that it would not be right for me, from the Chair, to say anything more on the matter. His concerns have, however, been forcefully registered.
Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I expected to be debating with the Minister for Universities and Science tonight, yet we have not had even the courtesy of an explanation why the Government have not moved their motions tonight. Have you been given an explanation? How can it be acceptable that students will be saddled with £39,000-worth of debt after just three hours of debate in the House—£13,000 of debt for each hour of debate?
Mr Speaker
My simple response to the hon. Gentleman is that it would not be right now to rehearse matters of substance relating to the tuition fees debate, which there will be an opportunity to develop on Thursday. I am sure the hon. Gentleman looks forward to that opportunity. He, too, has put his concerns explicitly on the record.
Business of the House
Debate between Gareth Thomas and John Bercow(14 years, 4 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Speaker
The Leader of the House is never impertinent, and I can tell him and the House that nothing would more readily warm the cockles of my heart than being in the Chair for the debate.
Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
For understandable reasons, the Leader of the House may not be aware of the growing international concern about the health of democracy in the Maldives. Opposition Members of Parliament there have been arrested, the judiciary are on strike and the army has been deployed on the streets of the capital. Will he speak to colleagues in the Foreign Office and invite them to make a statement—written or otherwise—on what they are doing to encourage a return to proper democratic processes in the Maldives?
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Gareth Thomas and John Bercow(14 years, 5 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his elevation to his post. I also take the opportunity to thank the Chancellor of the Exchequer for taking time out during the general election to come and support my re-election in Harrow West. The Opposition recognise that the new politics is not designed to help Labour Members, but I am grateful for the little bit of Tory love that came my way.
Can the hon. Gentleman tell the House who in the Government will have the final say on whether and which regional development agencies will survive? Will it be the Business Secretary—once a supporter of RDAs—or will it be the Chancellor? No one expects it to be the Chief Secretary. Is not the real truth that RDAs such as One NorthEast are playing, and could continue to play, a key role in helping to deliver new jobs in new industries crucial to Britain’s economic future, such as renewable energy and advanced engineering?