Caring Responsibilities

Debate between Emily Thornberry and Gary Streeter

Wednesday 15th June 2011 Westminster Hall

[Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Streeter. The debate could clearly have gone on for twice or perhaps three times as long. A feature of it has been the number of people who wanted to speak and have not been able to. My hon. Friend the Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden) wanted to speak, as did my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Erdington (Jack Dromey). My hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow Central (Anas Sarwar) had also prepared something, and my right hon. Friend the Member for Croydon North (Malcolm Wicks) had told me that he wanted to make a contribution. The fact that many people have shown an interest in the matter demonstrates its huge importance.

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore) on securing the debate. It is very easy to come out with a number of platitudes about carers, but carers want to hear what we will do to help them. Carers probably save this country more in money than is spent on the national health service. By 2017, it is likely that the UK will reach a tipping point, as the number of older people needing care will exceed the number of people of working age with families. There will be a crisis and we need to ensure that we are up to dealing with it. We must be able to support those people on whom we rely entirely. As has been said, if anyone is demonstrating the Prime Minister’s big society, it is carers up and down the country, so we need to look after them.

Where is the good news? There is some good news, which has come from the Law Commission. It has published a report that has largely received broad support from social care groups. A number of proposals are well thought out and will be well received, for example, rather than the carer needing to request an assessment, the local authority will have a duty to provide one. In addition, those assessments should be made for people who provide some care, rather than being restricted to those providing substantial care. Both those proposals are sensible. The third proposal is to ensure that a national system of eligibility assessments will provide some consistency across the country and allow people to move from one local authority to another without there being a huge time lag, which causes great distress to families. That will allow some portability of care.

The Under-Secretary’s brother Minister who is responsible for care, the Minister of State, Department of Health, the hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Burstow), has so far welcomed the Law Commission’s report. In his pre-coalition past, he expressed support for many of the ideas it recommends. However, many of the issues will not come within the Department of Health’s ambit, but within that of the Department for Communities and Local Government. Given that the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government has indicated that he wants to conduct a review of local authority duties, there is some concern that he may be resistant to a new duty being put on local authorities to ensure that carers are assessed as well as the person needing care. I hope that that is not the case and that people are speaking strongly in his ear, so that the Law Commission’s recommendations can be implemented in full because they are to carers’ advantage.

The other piece of good news may be the Dilnot inquiry. I met Mr Dilnot again today. He is very generous with his time and is meeting a broad range of people. The meeting he had with me and my right hon. Friend the Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey) was the first of eight meetings that he is holding today. Of course, we all agree that we need to make fundamental changes, that the status quo will not do and that we must have a fundamentally reformed care system. The Opposition believe that there should be high-quality care for those who need it and that care needs to be funded in a fair way, with proper accountability for those who deliver it.

We repeat the Leader of the Opposition’s invitation, which was made on Tuesday 7 June. We welcome cross-party talks and we would like them to happen as soon as possible. We will come with an open mind because we want to be able to work together for the best way forward. I understand that the Prime Minister has welcomed that approach, but we still have an empty diary and we want to be able to get on with it. If the failures of the past are repeated, we will not be forgiven by those who use the care system or their families. It is important to remember that, even with co-operation and a fair wind, we are unlikely to see any of Dilnot’s suggestions implemented until 2014-15. The current problem for carers is what is happening now to the social care system and their support .

I am afraid that that takes me to the end of the good news and into the bad news. As has been said very eloquently by my hon. Friends, social care cuts are clearly having a fundamental impact on the lives of carers. I was going to congratulate the Minister of State, Department of Health, the hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam on finally taking his fingers out of his ears, stopping singing, “La la la la la,” and accepting that the cuts to social care will affect front-line services. That is inevitable; there is no other option. Given that social care is top-tier councils’ biggest area of discretionary spending, we simply cannot have 27% cuts to local authorities without there being cuts to social care. It just does not work. Unfortunately, the Government have ignored the advice of the Association of Directors of Adult Social Services and the Local Government Group, who know what they are talking about.

Although no centralised assessment of the impact of the cuts to local government on social care was carried out, several people have done the Government’s job for them. A wealth of evidence has been provided by ADASS, the BBC and my own survey. As has been mentioned, my survey of the directors of social care received 61 replies from councils and shows some very worrying results. I am pleased that the Minister of State, has complimented my survey as being robust, accurate and, indeed, more reliable than that done by the BBC. However, he needs to look at the impact of it and what it means. We will do the survey again next year and the year after, and I am afraid that we will not get good news.

ADASS has shown this year that the shortfall to adult social care spending is £1 billion. The Government have done their best not to affect adult social care, but next year they have to cut again and the year after they have to cut yet again. If things are bad now, as has been so eloquently reported by my hon. Friends, where are we going? Do the Government have any idea of the impact of these cuts on carers? This has already been asked, but I repeat: how many of those who no longer meet councils’ very narrow eligibility criteria will need to rely on the informal care provided by their families? Do the Government know how many carers will have to go without support from their local authorities and will, as a result, be forced to give up work to meet their new obligations?

I was particularly pleased to hear what the hon. Member for Banbury (Tony Baldry) said about respite care—I support him in that. The Government are right—our Government was right—to ensure that money is put aside for respite care. The difficulty is that the mechanics do not work. Primary care trusts have been given that money. It is not ring-fenced. It is not clearly labelled. There is no accountability. The Department of Health is very unclear about which PCTs have spent it, in what way, how much they have worked with local authorities, or how much they have worked with carers—there is no overall picture. Frankly, is that not the sort of thing that the Government should do? It is not just a question of handing out the money. Surely there needs to be some form of accountability.

The Princess Royal Trust for Carers has been doing its best to conduct an audit of that, just as I am doing an audit of local authorities and the impact of the cuts on social care, but surely that should be a job for Government. Surely the Princess Royal Trust for Carers has things to do other than conduct an audit of whether the money given by the Department of Health to PCTs for respite care for carers is actually being spent on carers. That is part of the knock-on effect of the chaos that has been created through the proposed partial abolition of PCTs in the Health and Social Care Bill. What action will the Government take if PCTs do not work with local authorities and carers of organisations to publish plans and budgets?

The other piece of bad news, which has been mentioned, is welfare reform. We welcome the Government’s announcement that carer’s allowance will be outside universal credit. We also welcome the news that disability living allowance will be excluded from the overall benefit cap. However, the bad news is that, when the Government talked about introducing personal independence payments, they said that there would be a 20% cut to DLA. It is not just a 20% cut to DLA. Those people will not be springing from their beds, suddenly well. People with dependants will still be there. Not only will they, but their carers will lose their money, because carer’s allowance will be attached to DLA. There will, therefore, be a huge impact on the families of those people who are losing their DLA. Do the Government have any idea of how many carers will lose out as a result of moving DLA to the personal independence payment and the 20% cut? Are the Government aware that carer’s allowance is not excluded from the proposed benefit cap, while DLA is? I am sure that the Minister would agree that that is, at the very least, not consistent, let alone fair.

[Mr Gary Streeter (in the Chair)]

Order. It may help the hon. Lady to know that the debate ends at 4.10 pm, and I want to give the Minister some time to respond.

[Emily Thornberry]

May I just come back to this last point? It is shocking that, at a time like this, carers suffer in the way that they do. It is a question of priorities and hard choices. As my hon. Friend the Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) so eloquently put it, it is not right that a woman has to put her husband to bed at 4 o’clock in order to do a part-time cleaning job to pull things together. It makes “We are all in it together” hollow rhetoric.