Code of Conduct and Modernisation Committee

Ellie Chowns Excerpts

Thursday 25th July 2024 Commons Chamber

[Lucy Powell]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point. That is exactly the purpose of the motion. I hope he has time to do his other job of being a great parent.

However, the exemptions potentially act as loopholes, allowing a Member to use their privileged position and knowledge for personal gain. That may encourage not only a potential conflict of interest but a conflict of attention, with too much of a Member’s time and energy spent on things other than constituency or parliamentary business. I am very grateful to the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards for his advice on this matter and for the diligent provision of guidance to all Members on adherence to the code of conduct.

The motion puts an end to the exemptions. It sends a clear signal to the public that an MP’s first priority is to their constituents and to the country. It is a first step. These changes shall come into effect three months from the date this motion is passed, which will allow Members the chance to make any necessary changes to existing contracts or arrangements.

[Ellie Chowns (North Herefordshire) (Green)]

I welcome the statement that the Leader of the House is making. Does she agree that being an MP is an honour and a privilege, and should be a full-time job; and that the problem of second jobs goes wider than the limited issues she is addressing in her motion today? An example of the sort of behaviour that in my view should not be permitted would be an MP acting as managing director of a financial services company headquartered in a tax haven, in which case they might have a conflict of attention, potentially assisting people to avoid tax when of course we should all be serving the public interest. Will she act urgently to put forward further measures to prevent the type of behaviours that I have drawn attention to?

[Lucy Powell]

The hon. Lady makes a really good point. Absolutely, this is about conflicts of interest and conflicts of attention. As I have made clear, and will further make clear in my opening remarks, this is a first step. We need to look at some of those other areas to give our constituents confidence that this will eradicate the kind of behaviour that she describes.

This House has considered such issues before. Most recently, the Committee on Standards reviewed the code of conduct in the previous Parliament. The independent Committee on Standards in Public Life also looked at the matter several times, issuing recommendations in 2009 and in 2018 on MPs’ outside interests. I thank them for their work. Today’s change forms part of an ongoing conversation that I trust will continue as we begin to rebuild public trust in this institution.

We will go further. The other motion before the House will establish a new Modernisation Committee of the House of Commons, fulfilling another manifesto commitment. The Committee will be tasked with driving up standards and addressing the culture of this House, as well as improving working practices.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lucy Powell]

What is fair is that this House is made up of Members of Parliament who are elected by their constituencies, and Select Committees or Sub-Committees are made up of proportions of those Members. That is fair, and it has always been the case. As an incoming Government with a clear mandate for change—a clear mandate to rebuild trust in politics and restore respect for Parliament—and with a very large majority in the House, we could have proceeded without trying to take the House with us, not setting up a Committee but simply tabling various motions on a diktat basis, but I did not want to take that approach. I wanted to take the House with us and to represent Parliament as a whole—all parties and all Committees. That is why I commit myself again to enabling the smaller parties to have regular, meaningful engagement with the Modernisation Committee on issues of particular concern to them.

[Ellie Chowns]

Given that this is a Select Committee that you are setting up—[Interruption.] I am sorry. Given that the right hon. Lady is setting up the Committee specifically through a motion on the topic of modernisation, is this not an opportunity to demonstrate a tiny bit of that modernisation by ensuring that the smaller parties—not necessarily one member of each of them—are represented in its make-up? Would that not serve as an indication of good will towards the concept of modernisation?

[Lucy Powell]

As I have said, the Committee will engage with the smaller parties regularly and meaningfully. Let us say that there was one more place for a representative of a smaller party. Who would that place go to? Would that Member represent the various views of all the smaller parties? Would they represent Reform, the Greens, the Scottish National party, or the Democratic Unionist party? Everyone would have strong and differing views about that. When it comes to representing properly the range of views across the smaller parties, the commitment to ongoing, meaningful engagement, regular dialogue and inviting all the smaller parties to address the Committee on a regular basis reflects that range of views far better than having one representative on the Committee.

I also want to reassure the traditionalists among us. As I have said previously, this is not about altering the traditions and customs of this place; rather, the Modernisation Committee will build on the work of its namesakes, appointed in earlier Labour Administrations. Those predecessor Committees achieved great reforms in the way in which the Commons works: the introduction of Public Bill Committees, the arrival of Westminster Hall debates, and changes in sitting hours and recess dates. All those reforms improved scrutiny, and helped to make Parliament a more inclusive and family-friendly place of work. I would welcome suggestions from Members of further changes that it might be useful for the Modernisation Committee to consider in order to make Parliament a more effective, modern working environment that better reflects the country that it serves, and to help the public understand better the work that we do and the fact that we are here to serve them.

Let me turn to the Committee’s initial work. I hope that, as one of our first steps, we will look further into the question of Members’ outside employment. We will aim to consider, in conjunction with the Committee on Standards and the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards, whether any more changes to the rules or the code are necessary, particularly changes intended to ensure that a Member’s private or personal interests do not impede his or her principal duties to the House.

However, the scope of the Modernisation Committee will extend further than second jobs. Beyond reforms of the standards system, the Committee will consider the culture, procedures and working practices of the House. Parliament’s ability to hold the Government to account is essential. Our goal should be to maximise the time available for scrutiny of the Government’s legislative programme, while also ensuring that Back-Bench voices remain prominent and effective. Our constituents are best served when parliamentary time is spent both on robust scrutiny of legislation and on debates in which the issues that matter most to Members and to our constituents can be raised. I look forward to hearing the views of all Members when assessing how we can best achieve that, and whether changes are required.

Making Parliament accessible to all Members is of paramount importance. Over the years, good work has been done on seeking to tackle the inappropriate and wrong behaviour that we have all heard about and suffered from. The Speaker’s Conference in the last Session did important work on the conditions for Members’ staff. I am also grateful to Paul Kernaghan for his recent review of the Independent Complaints and Grievance Scheme, and to Alison Stanley, whose reviews preceded his. We will look at taking his recommendations forward. As recently as May this year, the Committee on Standards produced an excellent report on the standards landscape in Parliament, bringing together analysis of, and recommendations on, all elements of the standards system. Those pieces of work are essential, and they cannot be considered in isolation; we need to take a strategic approach to these issues, so that gaps in the system do not develop.

Today we have an opportunity to set out, clearly and firmly, the standards to which we should all aspire in this House—the standards that the public expect of their elected representatives. We have an opportunity to put politics back to service, and signal an immediate end to the politics of self-interest through a tightening of the rules on second jobs. We have an opportunity to establish a body that will examine the House in the round and bring it up to date. I look forward to this debate, and I am grateful for the huge amount of interest that the Modernisation Committee has already garnered.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ellie Chowns (North Herefordshire) (Green)]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I welcome you to your place. I pay tribute to the very moving and passionate maiden speeches we have heard from across the House today. I probably do not have time to go through all the details in them, but I shall remember not to fall asleep in the Library. I recognise the passion with which many people spoke about defending their constituents’ interests and, in particular, tackling child poverty.

I would like to speak to the formal topic of the debate: the modernisation of the House. I very much welcome the initiative by the Leader of the House in setting up the Committee and I look forward to feeding into it in whatever way possible, including through this debate. Modernisation should be about how we can become more efficient and effective as a House, and therefore more productive in our roles as MPs. That is what we have been elected to do. As I mentioned, I hope the Committee can be as representative as possible. It strikes me that as more than half the MPs are now newbie MPs—as, indeed, am I—there is perhaps an opportunity to ensure that the Committee is balanced in that way, so that the voices of new MPs, who are able to draw on a wide range of experience and perhaps have fresh eyes and fresh insight, which I think was mentioned in one of the maiden speeches, are represented.

From my perspective as a newly elected Member, I would like to offer observations on three elements of how the House operates, to feed into the deliberations of the Committee. I would like to speak about sitting, speaking and voting—very day-to-day activities. I have spent only three weeks in this House, but I know from conversations in the corridors that my observations are shared by other Members in all parts of the House.

My first point is about sitting. We are in a Chamber that is far too small to fit us all. I know that is not a novel observation, but as a newly elected MP, I find it really striking; it is quite extraordinary. I have served as a councillor for several years, and I have served as a Member of the European Parliament. In each of those chambers, we would have our own seat and our own desk, and we could plug in our devices, so that we could work off electronic materials. It seems extraordinary that we do not have space in this Chamber for each of us to sit and speak. Indeed, I was amazed to discover that there are seats in this Chamber on which we can sit, but from which we cannot speak. That seems an extraordinary limitation on the ability for everybody to participate in our debates. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if we all had somewhere to sit?

The limitations on space also lead to some frankly rather ridiculous behaviour, such as the practice of queuing up at the opening of the Chamber to place a prayer card and book a seat. At times of great demand, such as the King’s Speech or Prime Minister’s questions, that leads to a contestation over space that simply would not happen if we had enough space for everybody.

While I am on the topic of prayers, there is a practice in this place of having Christian prayers. As the daughter of preachers, I am very familiar with those, but I suggest that in this day and age, in a country of all faiths and none, it might be time to consider an approach a little more like Radio 4’s “Thought for the Day”, with a moment of reflection at the beginning of the day and an opportunity to hear views from people from a range of faiths, and indeed with none.

I will move on to speaking. I am glad that a time limit has been introduced for speeches today; I am used to speaking in chambers with a time limit. Time limits aid the democratic process, because they mean that everybody gets a fair crack of the whip and an equal chance to have their voice heard in the Chamber. If we had more time limits, there would be more opportunities for people to participate, and perhaps MPs would be keener to participate in debates. There is also the process of getting a slot. I have been busy bobbing up and down to attract your attention, Madam Deputy Speaker, as I did for five solid hours last week without managing to attract the Speaker’s attention. In recent days, a number of Members have wanted to make a maiden speech but have not been able to. The practice of bobbing might be good for the glutes, but I suggest that it is not so good for democracy. Perhaps we could find a more efficient way of allocating speaking time.

While we are on the topic, I note that the hon. Member for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain) spoke about the processes for Government or non-Government control of speaking time. An initiative to increase Back-Bench influence over the allocation of speaking time would be very useful.

My final point on speaking is about the culture in this House. In the few short days that I have spent in this Chamber, I have witnessed everything from excessive deference to, frankly, braying. As other Members have said in their maiden speeches, we really need to clean up politics. We really need to show that we are all here to debate in as positive a spirit as possible, as the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Mr Barros-Curtis) said.

It is extraordinary to me that we do not have electronic voting. We have a semi-system. While I have been here, I have participated in five votes, which has taken at least an hour and a quarter. If we add up all our votes, it basically comes to a month of MP time. It is an utter waste of time and totally unproductive. We could be getting through far more. Let us get rid of the voting Lobbies. We can double the physical size of the Chamber if we get rid of them—that is a genuine, practical suggestion. We can take the opportunity of the decanting process and having newbie MPs to really modernise how we operate here.

Finally, if we want to be a truly modern House of Commons, we need proportional representation.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

I call Sureena Brackenridge to make her maiden speech.