COP30

Debate between Ed Miliband and Alex Sobel

Tuesday 25th November 2025 Commons Chamber

[Ed Miliband]

I have huge respect for the right hon. Gentleman and his work under the previous Government on a whole range of development and climate issues, and I thank him for his question. I think my view of COP is a bit like the Churchill view of democracy: it is the least-worst system we have. For all the complaints and all the problems with it, we are bringing together 193 or 194 countries and, as he will know from his experience of COPs, there is an element of accountability: the smallest island states can confront the big emitters.

This is hard, and it is painful, but I know that the right hon. Gentleman cares passionately about these issues. We skated over it in these discussions, but I would just say to him that the agreement to treble adaptation finance within the new collective quantified goal that was agreed last year, which the hon. Member for South Cambridgeshire (Pippa Heylings) drew attention to, is a significant development. It is not as much as many of the developing countries want, and looking at the scale of need—Hurricane Melissa, and so on—we can see the difficulties. I was involved in the £100 billion overall finance that Gordon Brown produced around the Copenhagen summit; again, it was hard, and developing countries complained about it being late, but it did set a bar of accountability for the developed world. I agree with the right hon. Gentleman that I am sure the process could be better, but I do think it is an important mechanism of accountability and driving progress.

[Alex Sobel (Leeds Central and Headingley) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is great to see my right hon. Friend back at the Dispatch Box once more after taking a global leading role at COP. We could have no better Secretary of State in this area. Whatever the Opposition say, the Secretary of State in the global mainstream of climate leadership. As he knows, article 6 was operationalised at last at COP29 last year. The UK, and particularly the City of London, could have a global leading role in utilising article 6 to preserve nature to afforest and restore wetlands, peat bogs and marine environments. We know that countries around the world—not just in the global south, but countries including Ukraine—are putting article 6 into domestic law. What more could we do in the UK to ensure that our City of London, and our global finance money, is creating that natural capital through article 6 around the world?

[Ed Miliband]

My hon. Friend draws attention to something that is relatively obscure in the big scheme of things that we talk about in this House, but which is incredibly important none the less. Article 6 on carbon markets was agreed last year after, I think, a decade of effort. I want to pay tribute, by the way, to Rachel Kyte, our climate envoy, who was very much part of that, and indeed Ruth Davis, our nature envoy. Two things are interesting about this. The first is that the Brazilians launched what they call the open coalition on compliance carbon markets to drive work on carbon markets forward. I was part of those discussions. The second interesting thing that has happened is that the idea of the carbon border adjustment mechanism, or CBAM, which has been called for by lots of Members of this House, has actually pushed forward some of the work on carbon markets. I think I am right in saying that 7% of the world was covered by carbon markets 15 years ago, and now it is 28%, so progress is moving forward. My hon. Friend is absolutely right about the potential role of the City of London in this.

State of Climate and Nature

Debate between Ed Miliband and Alex Sobel

Monday 14th July 2025 Commons Chamber

[Ed Miliband]

The right hon. Gentleman and I have been arguing about these issues for about 20 years, so I think that I am unlikely to persuade him. We usually have good-natured discussions about this, but on the idea that this is scaremongering, we can see with our own eyes what is happening, as the hon. Member for Waveney Valley (Adrian Ramsay) said earlier. What the right hon. Gentleman is advocating would be a total betrayal not just of future generations but of today’s generations.

[Alex Sobel (Leeds Central and Headingley) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Secretary of State has been a global leader in this space for 20 years. We all know about the Climate Change Act 2008, but without his singular intervention at COP15 in Copenhagen, the world would not have agreed and would be on a worse climate trajectory today—the whole House needs to hear that. We now need significant afforestation and the repair of the world’s ecosystems—be they peat bogs, permafrost or seagrass—so what plans does he have to lead in that space at COP30 in Belém?

[Ed Miliband]

My hon. Friend is very kind. To be frank with him, when I met a group of young people earlier today, I felt a sense of responsibility, because no country is yet doing enough on these issues and we need to do more. They are fearful about the world that they will inherit and look to the Government to show leadership. The issue that he mentions is important, and we will ensure that we make it part of our agenda at COP30.

COP29

Debate between Ed Miliband and Alex Sobel

Tuesday 26th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Ed Miliband]

The right hon. Gentleman and I have been debating these issues for 15 years, and I hazard a guess that we will not end up agreeing. The truth about the climate crisis is that it is the biggest potential cost that future generations can face. There will be trillions of costs across the world and tens and hundreds of billions of costs in the UK if we do not act. All the evidence is that the costs of acting on climate change are much lower than the costs of not acting.

[Alex Sobel (Leeds Central and Headingley) (Lab/Co-op)]

I was in Paris nine years ago when we started the process of negotiation on article 6 of the Paris agreement, which was concluded only with the gavel going down in Baku. It is an important process, ensuring a carbon market through the United Nations framework convention on climate change. How will the UK implement the new article 6 regulations? How will we support other countries in this important work, as we can utilise it for nature-based solutions such as reforestation and afforestation?

[Ed Miliband]

My hon. Friend makes a really important point—it may be a slight counter to the right hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson). Beneath the headlines, this is where the hard yards of work at COP happened. It has taken 10 years to do these article 6 negotiations and complete them, but this is about voluntary carbon markets. In answer to my hon. Friend’s question, we are consulting on some of the high-integrity principles for that, but again, this will make a difference to developing countries and get funds flowing to them. That is another reason why these COPs are worthwhile.