NICE-Approved Products: Patient Access

Edward Argar Excerpts

Tuesday 30th November 2021 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Health (Edward Argar)]

As ever, I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Newton Abbot (Anne Marie Morris) on securing this debate and I pay tribute to her work in this area. That work has been sustained for as long as I have been a Member of the House—I was first elected in 2015—but I suspect that this area was of interest to her long before then. I pay tribute to her for her continued engagement on this area, which is not always top of the news or top of the political agenda, but is hugely important none the less, so I pay tribute to her work in this space.

I reassure my hon. Friend that the Government share this priority. She is right—I characterise this in these terms and I hope that she will not demur from this—that although the NHS workforce is the beating heart of our NHS, it is beholden on us to give them the tools that they need to be able to use their skills to treat and support the maximum number of possible patients in the most effective way. I think that is a fair reflection of the point that she made at the outset.

[Anne Marie Morris]

indicated assent.

[Edward Argar]

That is an encouraging start. That is why NICE exists. It plays a vital role in supporting patient access to new treatments. Through its technology appraisal and highly specialised technologies programme, NICE makes recommendations for the NHS on whether all new medicines represent value for money for the taxpayer.

NICE aims to publish guidance on new medicines as soon as possible after licensing and is committed to publishing draft recommendations on medicines around the time of marketing authorisation, wherever that is possible. It has a well-earned reputation as a world leader in the field of health technology assessment and it is right that, where NICE recommends a medicine or a medical device, it should be available to patients who stand to benefit. Value for money is important and I will come to that. I suggest that whether the NAO or the Public Accounts Committee wish to look at this is a matter for them, but as my hon. Friend said, she may wish to take that up with the hon. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch (Dame Meg Hillier), who may well share her interest—I would not wish to presume, but the hon. Member may well.

Making treatments available is why NHS England and clinical commissioning groups are already under a statutory obligation to fund any treatment recommended by NICE through its technology appraisal or highly specialised technologies programmes, usually within three months of guidance. I will turn to my hon. Friend’s point on timing shortly. This will also be a statutory obligation for integrated care boards. As my hon. Friend has set out, the NHS constitution states that patients and the public

“have the right to drugs and treatments that have been recommended by NICE for use in the NHS, if your doctor”—

the treating clinician—

“says they are clinically appropriate for you.”

That is an important point, because we rightly rely on clinical judgment in such circumstances. As my hon. Friend will be aware, NICE recommends the vast majority of new medicines—indeed, in 2020-21 it recommended 100% of them, often thanks to commercial agreements negotiated between NHS England, NICE and companies in parallel with the NICE assessment process—but it is right that that clinical appropriateness filter is there.

I am conscious of time, but before I turn to specific points that my hon. Friend made, I would like to say a few brief words about the success of the cancer drugs fund in supporting patient access to new medicines. The cancer drugs fund was originally introduced to support patient access to medicines that NICE was unable to recommend as cost-effective. Since 2016, however, the fund has been linked to the NICE appraisal process and supports patient access to promising new medicines where the evidence is not mature enough for NICE to recommend routine funding at that point. This has benefited more than 73,000 patients, who have been able to access 91 medicines through the cancer drugs fund, treating more than 200 cancers.

We are building on that fabulous achievement with our manifesto commitment to extend the cancer drugs fund model to non-cancer treatments by creating an innovative medicines fund. I think that there are lessons that we can learn from the cancer drugs fund. NHS England has also recently launched a consultation on proposals for the establishment of the innovative medicines fund. I encourage anyone with an interest to engage; knowing my hon. Friend, I suspect that she has probably pre-empted me and done so already.

I turn briefly to medical devices and treatments. The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) was quite right to highlight that, although debate often focuses on drugs and specific medicinal or therapeutic treatments, we also need to look more widely at medical devices and at treatments that take other forms than therapeutic treatment. I know that he takes a close interest in the treatment and support of those with dementia, as I did before I was a Minister; I am grateful, as ever, for his contribution to the debate.

As hon. Members will know, NICE can also make recommendations on treatments through its clinical guidelines programme. Guidelines provide authoritative, evidence-based guidance for healthcare professionals and play an important role in driving best practice in the health and care system and supporting improved patient outcomes. However, they often make dozens of recommendations that can be complicated to implement at a local level. For that reason, they are not mandatory, but I assure the House and my hon. Friend the Member for Newton Abbot that the Government expect the healthcare system to take guideline recommendations fully into account in designing services that meet the needs of the local population and in working towards their implementation over time. It is right, however, that that implementation reflects local circumstance and is done at a local level.

I turn to local formularies; time is getting short, but I may also turn briefly to the eight points that my hon. Friend made—let us see how we do. She has raised concerns, not only in this debate but during the Health and Care Bill’s passage through the Commons and in conversations with me, that despite positive NICE guidance, some medicines are not available to NHS patients because they are not included on local formularies. In addition to the statutory funding requirement that applies to NICE-recommended treatments, NICE’S guideline “Developing and updating local formularies” recommends that, when NICE approves the use of a medicine through a technology appraisal, it should be automatically adopted into local formularies.

The standard contract mandated by NHS England for use by commissioners stipulates that providers must ensure that formularies include all NICE-recommended treatments. That process should take place within three months, allowing services a realistic timeframe to prepare for the introduction of a new technology. I appreciate that my hon. Friend went a little further on tightening the timeframe and the compulsion element, but given the complexity of some new treatments, I think that three months probably remains an appropriate timescale. I suspect that she will continue to push me on it, but at the moment I believe it is the right approach.

My hon. Friend is right that the system needs monitoring. She called for an obligation on integrated care boards to report uptake of new medicines annually, which is effectively monitoring. I am pleased to say that the Government support the view that uptake of NICE-recommended medicines should be monitored. Since 2013, NHS Digital has published an innovation scorecard that reports, at a national and a local level, the uptake of selected medicines that NICE has recommended in the last five years. I believe that it is more appropriate and proportionate that that information is collected and published by a single national body using agreed methodology, rather than multiple organisations that may have different ways of measuring and presenting the data.

My hon. Friend made a number of other points. Given the time constraints, I fear that I cannot address them all, but I will reflect carefully, as ever, on what she has said. Given that neither of them are present in the Chamber, it is a pleasure, as always, to agree on their behalf that my noble Friend the innovation Minister and my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Norfolk (George Freeman)—the life sciences Minister—will be delighted to meet her to discuss the matter in more detail. I am very grateful to her for bringing this evening’s debate to the House.

Question put and agreed to.

Health and Care Bill

Edward Argar Excerpts

Report stage
Tuesday 23rd November 2021 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Health (Edward Argar)]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Government new clause 37—Offence of offering to carry out virginity testing: England and Wales.

Government new clause 38—Offence of aiding or abetting etc a person to carry out virginity testing: England and Wales.

Government new clause 39—Virginity testing offences in England and Wales: penalties.

Government new clause 40—Offence of virginity testing: Scotland.

Government new clause 41—Offence of offering to carry out virginity testing: Scotland.

Government new clause 42—Offence of aiding or abetting etc a person to carry out virginity testing: Scotland.

Government new clause 43—Virginity testing offences in Scotland: penalties and supplementary.

Government new clause 44—Offence of virginity testing: Northern Ireland.

Government new clause 45—Offence of offering to carry out virginity testing: Northern Ireland.

Government new clause 46—Offence of aiding or abetting etc a person to carry out virginity testing: Northern Ireland.

Government new clause 47—Virginity testing offences in Northern Ireland: penalties.

Government new clause 48—Virginity testing: consequential amendments.

New clause 1—Licensing of aesthetic non-surgical cosmetic procedures—

“(1) No person may carry on an activity to which this subsection applies—

(a) except under the authority of a licence for the purposes of this section, and

(b) other than in accordance with specified training.

(2) Subsection (1) applies to an activity relating to the provision of aesthetic non-surgical procedures which is specified for the purposes of the subsection by regulations made by the Secretary of State.

(3) A person commits an offence if that person contravenes subsection (1).

(4) The Secretary of State may by regulations make provision about licences and conditions for the purposes of this section.

(5) Before making regulations under this section, the Secretary of State must consult the representatives of any interests concerned which the Secretary of State considers appropriate.

(6) Regulations may, in particular—

(a) require a licensing authority not to grant a licence unless satisfied as to a matter specified in the regulations; and

(b) require a licensing authority to have regard, in deciding whether to grant a licence, to a matter specified in the regulations.”

This new clause gives the Secretary of State the power to introduce a licensing regime for aesthetic non-surgical cosmetic procedures and makes it an offence for someone to practise without a licence. The list of treatments, detailed conditions and training requirements would be set out in regulations after consultation with relevant stakeholders.

New clause 12—Protection of the title of “nurse”—

“(1) A person may not practise or carry on business under any name, style or title containing the word ‘nurse’ unless that person is registered with the Nursing and Midwifery Council and entered in sub part 1 or 2 of the register as a Registered Nurse or in the specialist community public health nursing part of the register.

(2) Subsection (1) does not prevent any use of the designation ‘veterinary nurse’, ‘dental nurse’ (for which see section 36K of the Dentists Act 1984) or ‘nursery nurse’.

(3) A person who contravenes subsection (1) is guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level four on the standard scale.”

New clause 21—Prohibition of virginity testing—

“(1) A person is guilty of an offence if they attempt to establish that another person is a virgin by making physical contact with their genitalia.

(2) A person is guilty of an offence if they provide another person with a product intended for the purpose, or purported purpose, of establishing whether another person is a virgin.

(3) A person is guilty of an offence if they aid, abet, counsel or procure a person to establish that another person is a virgin by making physical contact with their genitalia.

(4) No offence is committed by an approved person who performs—

(a) a surgical operation on a person which is necessary for their physical or mental health; or

(b) a surgical operation on a female who is in any stage of labour, or has just given birth, for purposes connected with the labour or birth.

(5) The following are approved persons—

(a) in relation to an operation falling within subsection (4)(a), a registered medical practitioner; and

(b) in relation to an operation falling within subsection (5)(b), a registered medical practitioner, a registered midwife or a person undergoing a course of training with a view to becoming such a practitioner or midwife.

(6) There is also no offence committed by a person who—

(a) performs a surgical operation falling within subsection (4)(a) or (b) outside the United Kingdom; and

(b) in relation to such an operation exercises functions corresponding to those of an approved person.

(7) For the purpose of determining whether an operation is necessary for the mental health of a girl it is immaterial whether she or any other person believes that the operation is required as a matter of custom or ritual.

(8) This section applies to any act done outside the United Kingdom by a United Kingdom national or resident.

(9) A person who is guilty of an offence under this section is liable, on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months, to a fine, or to both.

(10) The court must refer the case of any person guilty of an offence under this section who is subject to statutory professional regulation for investigation by the relevant regulator.”

New clause 22—Prohibition of hymenoplasty—

2(1) A person is guilty of an offence if they undertake a surgical procedure for the purpose of re-attaching membrane tissue, creating scar tissue or otherwise attempting to re-create the hymen in the vagina of a patient.

(2) A person is guilty of an offence if they advertise the service of hymenoplasty or any service that purports to ‘re-virginise’ or otherwise re-create or re-attach the hymen of a patient by way of surgical procedure.

(3) A person is guilty of an offence if they aid, abet, counsel or procure a person to undertake a surgical procedure for the purpose of re-attaching membrane tissue, creating scar tissue or otherwise attempting to or re-creating the hymen in the vagina of a patient.

(4) This section applies to any act done outside the United Kingdom by a United Kingdom national or resident.

(5) A person who is guilty of an offence under this section is liable, on conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years.

(6) The court must refer the case of any person guilty of an offence under this section who is subject to statutory professional regulation for investigation by the relevant regulator.”

New clause 28—Secretary of State’s duty to report on long term workforce planning—

“(1) The Secretary of State must prepare and publish a report each year on projected workforce shortages and future staffing requirements for health, public health and social care sectors in the following five, ten and twenty years.

(2) The report must report projections of both headcount and full-time equivalent for the total health, public health and care workforce in England and for each region, covering all regulated professions and including those working for voluntary and private providers of health and social care as well as the NHS.

(3) The projections must be independently verified and based on projected health and care needs of the population for the following 5, 10 and 20 years, consistent with the Office for Budget Responsibility long-term fiscal projections.

(4) All relevant NHS bodies, arm’s-length bodies, expert bodies, trade unions and the Social Partnership forum must be consulted in the preparation of the report.

(5) The assumptions underpinning the projections must be published at the same time as the report and must meet the relevant standards set out in the National Statistics Authority’s Code of Practice for Statistics.

(6) The Secretary of State must update Parliament each year on the Government’s strategy to deliver and fund the long-term workforce projections.”

New clause 29—Duty on the Secretary of State to report on workforce planning and safe staffing—

“(1) At least every five years the Secretary of State must lay before Parliament a health and care workforce strategy for workforce planning and safe staffing supply.

(2) This strategy must include—

(a) actions to ensure the health and care workforce meets the numbers and skill-mix required to meet workforce requirements,

(b) equality impact assessments for planned action for both workforce and population,

(c) application of lessons learnt from formal reviews and commissions concerning safety incidents,

(d) measures to promote retention, recruitment, remuneration and supply of the workforce, and

(e) due regard for and the promotion of workplace health and safety, including provision of safety equipment and clear mechanisms for staff to raise concerns.”

Amendment 10, in clause 34, page 42, line 12, leave out from beginning to the end of line 17 and insert—

“(1) The Secretary of State must, at least once every two years, lay a report before Parliament describing the system in place for assessing and meeting the workforce needs of the health, social care and public health services in England.

(2) This report must include—

(a) an independently verified assessment of health, social care and public health workforce numbers, current at the time of publication, and the projected workforce supply for the following five, ten and 20 years; and

(b) an independently verified assessment of future health, social care and public health workforce numbers based on the projected health and care needs of the population for the following five, ten and 20 years, consistent with the Office for Budget Responsibility long-term fiscal projections.

(3) NHS England and Health Education England must assist in the preparation of a report under this section.

(4) The organisations listed in subsection (3) must consult health and care employers, providers, trade unions, Royal Colleges, universities and any other persons deemed necessary for the preparation of this report, taking full account of workforce intelligence, evidence and plans provided by local organisations and partners of integrated care boards.”

This amendment would require the Government to publish independently verified assessments every two years of current and future workforce numbers required to deliver care to the population in England, based on the economic projections made by the Office for Budget Responsibility, projected demographic changes, the prevalence of different health conditions and the likely impact of technology.

Amendment 40, in clause 108, page 96, line 9, leave out subsection (2) and insert—

“(2) In this Part ‘protected material’ means—

(a) all statements taken from persons by the HSSIB during a safety investigation or in the course of deciding whether an incident is going to be subject to an HSSIB investigation,

(b) records revealing the identity of persons who have given evidence in the context of the safety investigation,

(c) information that has been collected by the HSSIB which is of a particularly sensitive and personal nature, such as (but not limited to) copies taken by the HSSIB of health records, care records, clinical notes, or personnel records,

(d) material subsequently produced during the course of an HSSIB investigation such as (but not limited to) notes, drafts and opinions written by the investigators, or opinions expressed in the analysis of information obtained through the investigation,

(e) drafts of preliminary or final reports or interim reports, and

(f) information that would be subject to legally enforceable commercial privileges.”

This amendment would define more closely the materials covered by the “safe space” protection provided for by the Bill.

Amendment 41, page 96, line 32, leave out

“information, document, equipment or other item held by that individual”

and insert “protected material”.

This amendment is consequential on Amendment 40.

Amendment 43, in clause 109, page 96, line 43, leave out from “Part” to end of line 24 on page 97.

This amendment would remove the ability of the Secretary of State to make regulations authorising disclosure of protected material beyond that provided for in the Bill.

Amendment 74, page 101, line 1, leave out clause 115.

Government amendments 24 and 127.

Amendment 57, page 110, line 11, leave out clause 127.

This amendment seeks to ensure that a profession currently regulated cannot be removed from statutory regulation and that regulatory bodies cannot be abolished.

Government amendments 86 and 87.

Government new schedule 1—Virginity testing: consequential amendments.

Government amendment 88.

Amendment 42, in schedule 14, page 218, line 30, leave out paragraph 6.

This amendment would remove the provision allowing coroners to require the disclosure of protected material.

[Edward Argar]

This broad group of amendments concern improving patient safety and the quality of health and care services, both of which are a priority for this Government. For that reason, this Bill will put the Health Services Safety Investigations Body on a statutory footing. The HSSIB will be one of the first independent healthcare bodies of its kind, leading the way in investigating for the purpose of learning, not blaming. For the HSSIB to be able to perform this “no-blame” role, the integrity of safe space is paramount. I look forward to contributions from right hon. and hon. Members from both sides of the House, recognising the depth of expertise, particularly that residing in the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire (Dr Whitford), on how best to make safe space work. As we discussed extensively in Committee, we recognise that ultimately this comes down to: what is the appropriate balance to be struck? Different views are likely to be aired again today.

Within this group, I will also address amendments brought forward by colleagues, including my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Surrey (Jeremy Hunt), on the health and social care workforce. Ensuring we have the workforce this country needs will, in the short-term, tackle the elective backlog. Crucially, in the long-term, as we build back better, it will help to reduce damaging health inequalities. For those reasons, I will later speak in more detail about this Government’s plans on the workforce, some of which of course are already in motion. I hope I can reassure the House that the provisions already made in this Bill, alongside the Government amendments I am about to discuss, do go sufficiently far to address these important issues.

I will begin by addressing new clauses 36 to 48, new schedule 1 and amendments 86 and 87, which comprise the package of Government amendments to prohibit virginity testing in the UK. I offer my deepest thanks to my hon. Friend the Member for North West Durham (Mr Holden) for his tireless efforts in proposing these amendments originally and in supporting the Government in proposing our variations on them, which we believe achieve the right balance—I will turn to that in a moment—as we bring forward this ban.

I should also put on the record my gratitude to the Opposition Front-Bench team for their constructive engagement on this issue, which does not divide us on party political lines but is about doing the right thing. I am grateful to the shadow Ministers on the Opposition Front Bench: the hon. Members for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Justin Madders) and for Nottingham North (Alex Norris).

In July, the Government promised in our violence against women and girls strategy that virginity testing will not be tolerated in the UK and will be banned at the earliest opportunity, so I am delighted that we are introducing amendments that demonstrate the strength of our commitment to the removal of all forms of abuse against women and girls. Our amendments will create three offences: conducting a virginity test; offering virginity testing; and aiding or abetting another person to conduct a virginity test in the UK or on UK nationals overseas. Each offence will carry a maximum penalty of five years’ imprisonment and/or an unlimited fine. This sentencing reflects the long-term physical and psychological damage that this repressive practice can cause.

The offences begin to tackle the harmful misconceptions that surround a woman’s sexuality. This House’s commitment to legislate is a profoundly important step forward in helping to tackle the damaging myths concerning the so-called purity of women’s sexuality. In response to concerns that, once the offence is banned in the UK, vulnerable women and girls will be taken abroad and subjected to virginity testing there, the offences will carry extraterritorial jurisdiction.

The proposals have been discussed by Health Ministers throughout the UK, including in the devolved Administrations, and I am working with them to ensure that the whole of the UK together tackles this abhorrent practice. I put on record my gratitude to the devolved Administrations for the constructive manner in which they have engaged on the issue. I hope that the House will pass the amendments today and allow us to take another step forward in our shared endeavour and important work on safeguarding and improving the lives of women and girls throughout the United Kingdom.

Let me turn briefly to new clause 21, tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for North West Durham—I thank him again for doing so. I hope that what I have said will reassure him and the rest of the House that the package of Government amendments that I have just discussed go further to protect women and girls from this form of abuse and are the most effective vehicle by which we can achieve what we seek to do. Our package of amendments set out that the conducting, offering or aiding of a virginity test is simply indefensible. The amendments ensure that victims are protected on our shores and abroad and that the sentencing of those convicted reflects the detrimental physical and psychological impacts of the practice. I therefore hope that my hon. Friend will feel able not to press his new clause to a vote and instead to support our amendments. I am incredibly grateful to him—as, I am sure, is the House—for his campaigning vigour on this issue.

My hon. Friend also tabled new clause 22, which seeks to ban the practice of hymenoplasty. The Government remain concerned that hymenoplasty is also driven by a repressive approach to female sexuality and is closely related to virginity testing, which we have made clear today is not an acceptable practice in the United Kingdom or elsewhere. We announced in the violence against women and girls strategy that we would set up an independent expert panel to explore the complex clinical, legal and ethical aspects of the procedure in more detail. The panel, which includes key stakeholders with ethical and clinical expertise, has already met and will shortly make its recommendations to Ministers, before Christmas. It is crucial that, having asked the panel to contribute, we carefully consider its views before we make a firm decision to ban hymenoplasty. However, I assure the House that although we cannot accept the new clause today because we await the recommendations of the review panel, we will of course fully reassess our position as soon as the panel makes its recommendations.

If we are to ensure patient safety and quality of care, it is vital that we have the workforce in place to deliver it. That is a priority for the Government and I reassure the House that we are taking the necessary steps to secure the workforce of the health and social care sector. Members throughout the House would all agree that although investment in technology, in new hospitals and buildings, in therapeutics and in kit are all phenomenally important, the golden thread that makes that investment valuable is the workforce—the people who always go above and beyond, particularly in the past 18 months, to make that equipment more than just a shiny piece of kit but something that actually saves lives. They are absolutely the heart of what we are doing.

[Chris Grayling (Epsom and Ewell) (Con)]

I am particularly concerned about the workforce situation in primary care. In my constituency, the practices are reporting back not only on an acute shortage of locums, but on their ability to recruit new GPs. One reason is that, 10,15, 20 years ago, there was inadequate planning for the future and we did not train enough doctors. That is one reason why I have signed amendment 10 tabled by my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Surrey (Jeremy Hunt). May I urge the Government to go beyond where they have been and to look for any way available to deal with this issue now, and particularly to plan for the future so that this does not happen again?

[Edward Argar]

My right hon. Friend is perspicacious in his prediction of where I was about to go. I was about to turn to amendment 10 tabled by my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Surrey and new clause 28 tabled by the shadow Minister, which go to the heart of what my right hon. Friend is talking about.

I hope the shadow Minister will agree that amendment 10 and new clause 28 are, essentially, broadly unified in their intention and therefore I hope that he will allow me to take them both together. They require the Government to publish independently verified assessments of current and future workforce numbers for the needs of the health, social care and public health services in England.

There has rightly been much discussion on workforce planning for the NHS and adult social care. That reflects the deep debt of gratitude that the country owes the staff and also, as I said, their absolute indispensability in delivering on all our aspirations for healthcare and social care in this country and for our constituents’ care.

As part of our commitment to improving workforce planning, my Department is already doing substantial work to ensure that we recover from the pandemic and support care. We have already committed to publishing, in the coming weeks, a plan for elective recovery and to introducing further reforms to improve recruitment and support for our social care workforce, with further detail set out in an upcoming social care White Paper. We are also developing a comprehensive national plan for supporting and enabling integration between health, social care and other services, which support people’s health and wellbeing.

Let me turn to that framework, to which my right hon. Friend the Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling) was alluding, for a longer-term perspective. The Department has already commissioned Health Education England to work with partners to develop a robust, long-term 15-year strategic framework for the health and social care workforce, which, for the first time, will include regulated professionals in adult social care. That work was commissioned in July by my hon. Friend the Member for Faversham and Mid Kent (Helen Whately) when she was in post in the Department. That work will look at the key drivers of workforce demand and supply over the longer term and will set out how they impact on the required shape and numbers of the future workforce to help identify those main strategic choices, and we anticipate publication in spring of next year.

It is vital that the workforce planning is closely integrated to the wider planning across health and social care and, as such, Health Education England, which has established relationships with the health and care system at a local, regional and national level, is best placed to develop such a strategy. Crucially, following the announcement yesterday of HEE merging with NHS England in improvement, we will, for the first time, bring together those responsible for planning services, for delivering services on the ground, and for delivering on the workforce needs of those services so that we can have a more integrated approach to delivering on that framework.

[Richard Fuller (North East Bedfordshire) (Con)]

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. There is much to commend in the amendment of my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Surrey (Jeremy Hunt) and in what the Minister is saying. One thing that is not obvious in either, though, is the focus on labour costs and productivity. For example, how is technology going to reduce labour costs in the delivery of the same quality or higher quality of service? What is the possibility of creating new care pathways, which require less qualified staff to deliver as good or better service? What is going on in terms of reducing the proportion of non-clinical staff by the adoption of technology and other means in healthcare? Perhaps the Minister could address that. I am sure that my right hon. Friend will be doing so later, too.

[Edward Argar]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We see huge opportunities, almost every day, from new technology and new ways of using that technology to deliver more efficient and shorter turnaround times—for tests and diagnostics, for example. He is also right to talk about the need constantly to examine care pathways, and, where opportunities exist, to use highly qualified healthcare professionals but to look carefully at the most appropriate level at which a treatment or test can be carried out; historically, we may have used healthcare professionals for particular tasks for which they were almost over-qualified. It is right that care pathways are informed by clinical and scientific expertise and judgment, but that we continue to review how new technology, new ways of working and new care pathways can improve the productivity of our amazing workforce.

[Emma Hardy (Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle) (Lab)]

As part of the Minister’s workforce review, will he look at the Carr-Hill formula, which local GPs tell me incentivises GPs to go to areas with longer life expectancy—therefore, wealthier areas—at the expense of areas such as Hull? It feels like the funding mechanism for GPs is not fair.

[Edward Argar]

The Carr-Hill formula has been through many “almost reviews” over the years and has been looked at by different Governments. Various GP practices in my constituency—as I am sure is the case in the hon. Lady’s—understandably raise opinions about how the formula might be improved. The point does not necessarily goes to the entire heart of what we are discussing, but she has managed deftly to make it within scope, in the context of GPs and so forth.

Finally, the report in clause 34 will increase transparency and accountability of the workforce planning process. It is for those reasons that I encourage—perhaps unsuccessfully—my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Surrey and the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston, to consider not pressing their amendments to a Division.

[Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)]

Fifteen years is a long time in workforce planning. The make-up of the workforce could change significantly over that time, not least as we are trying to address some real workforce crises now. Will the Minister put in place a road map to fill those vacancies over that time, and interim reports so that we can review progress?

[Edward Argar]

I set out the commissioning of the 15-year framework to look at need. Within that, the House will be regularly updated, as happens now—not least in oral questions, as we saw in the session preceding this debate—with plenty of opportunities for Members to challenge the Government and to see updates. There is also the regular publication of figures and workforce statistics, which will continue. Once we have that 15-year framework back and see what HEE says, we will be able to look at how best that might be interrogated by Members of the House and the wider public. I am hopeful that it will report back in the spring, and I suspect that that may well occasion a debate in this House. If not, I suspect that it may well occasion an urgent question from the hon. Lady or the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston.

Let me turn to new clause 29, which also addresses the issue of workforce planning. This new clause would place a duty on the Secretary of State to report on workforce planning and safe staffing. I have just elaborated at some length on the substantial work that my Department is doing to improve workforce planning. It remains the responsibility of local clinical and other leaders to ensure safe staffing, supported by guidance and regulated by the Care Quality Commission. The ultimate outcome of good-quality care is influenced by a far greater range of issues than how many of each particular staff group are on any particular shift at any one time, even though that is clearly important, which is why the Government are committed to growing the health workforce. It is also important that local clinical leads can make decisions based on the circumstances in their own particular clinical setting, utilising their expertise and knowledge.

The amendment would also require the report to contain a review of lessons learnt. In the last decade, the Government have introduced significant measures to support the NHS to learn from things that go wrong, reduce patient harm and improve the response to harmed patients, such as: a regulated duty of candour that requires trusts to tell patients if their safety has been compromised and apologise; protections for whistleblowers when they raise safety concerns; the Healthcare Safety Investigation Branch, which we are building on and establishing as a separate statutory body through the Bill; and the first-ever NHS patient safety strategy, with substantial programmes planned and under way to create a safety and learning culture in the NHS.

I hope I have given the House some reassurance that we are doing substantive work to improve safe staffing and workforce planning. Again, I encourage the shadow Minister—perhaps it will be unsuccessful, but it is always worth trying—to consider withdrawing his amendment.

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

New clause 29(2)(d) has merits, as I am sure the Minister will accept, in that we need to incentivise people to join health and care, and, crucially, to be retained with the system. Will he give some consideration to this, particularly given that, for example, somebody working in the care system can work for years and years and still be in the same place when it comes to applying for a training place in a profession allied to medicine as somebody who simply has a couple of A-levels? That seems to be wrong. Does he agree that we need to complete the structure so that there is some prospect of progression with health and care and to try to break down the barriers between the two?

[Edward Argar]

As ever, my right hon. Friend—my friend—makes his point well, and, as ever, I will commit to taking it away and reflecting on it very carefully. He is always very considered in the points he makes in this House, so I am happy to look at it.

I turn to Government amendment 127, which I bring forward with support of the Welsh Government. Clause 127 on professional regulation provides additional powers that will widen the scope of section 60 of the Health Act 1999 and enable the Privy Council to make additional changes through secondary legislation. One of the powers within this clause is to enable the regulation of groups of workers concerned with physical and mental health, whether or not they are generally regarded as a profession. This element of the clause falls within the legislative competence of the Senedd. When the section 60 powers are used, they are subject to the existing statutory requirements in schedule 3 of the Health Act 1999— namely, consultation and the affirmative parliamentary procedure. When legislation made using section 60 powers also falls within areas of devolved competence, it will be developed in collaboration with the devolved Administrations. Orders may require the approval of the Scottish Parliament where they concern professions brought into regulation after the Scotland Act 1998, or of the Welsh Assembly where the order concerns social care workers. In Northern Ireland, where the regulation of healthcare professions is a transferred matter, the UK Government will continue to seek the agreement of the Northern Ireland Executive when legislating on matters that effect regulation in its territory.

The amendment introduces a requirement to obtain the consent of Welsh Ministers before an Order in Council can be made under section 60 of the Health Act 1999 when it contains a provision that would be within the legislative competence of the Senedd. It would apply if we were seeking to bring into regulation in Wales a group of workers who are concerned with physical or mental health of individuals but who are not generally regarded as a profession. The UK Government recognise the competence of the Welsh Government regarding this provision and are respecting the relevant devolution settlement in making this amendment. For these reasons, I ask hon. Members to support the amendment.

Finally, I turn to the amendments related to part 4 of the Bill on the health services safety investigations body. These are the most significant set of provisions found within this Bill to enhance patient safety. The establishment of an independent healthcare body focused on learning from mistakes to improve safety and quality is a world first. For the health service safety investigations body to be able to perform this “no-blame” role, the integrity of safe space is paramount. Without it, health and care staff will not have confidence to come forward, and potential learning will be lost. This principle runs throughout the drafting of these clauses. We have made a small number of exceptions in the Bill—for example, to ensure that coroners can continue to perform their vital functions as judicial office holders and effectively as part of the judiciary. We have also provided for a regulation-making power to ensure that safe space can evolve in line with innovation in technology or medical practice. However, nothing in the Bill can or will undermine the imperative that the HSSIB is an independent organisation or the fundamental importance of safe space to the effective working of that organisation.

[Dr Philippa Whitford (Central Ayrshire) (SNP)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Edward Argar]

Yes, of course, although I do so with a degree of trepidation, because the hon. Lady is well versed in these issues.

[Dr Whitford]

The Minister does not need to be anxious, because he has already heard it all in Committee. Does he not recognise that there is nothing in HSSIB that takes away from coroners’ investigations that they carry out at the moment, and that HSSIB should not be seen as replacing that work by another health body? Adding coroners to it has already created a campaign relating to the ombudsman and freedom of information, and there is a real danger that it weakens the safe space.

[Edward Argar]

I am grateful for the manner in which the hon. Lady puts her points. She is right; we have debated this previously. We have been publicly clear that we do not believe that the exemption or exception should be extended to the ombudsman. She is right that there are campaigns saying we should have no exceptions or that we should widen the exceptions. We believe we have struck the right balance with this measure, while respecting the fact that a coroner is a judicial office holder and has a very specific function to perform, as set out in legislation in—this is where my memory may fail me—the Coroners and Justice Act 2009, which recognises their particular and special status. I suspect that she and I may have to agree to disagree on whether the appropriate balance is struck, but that sets out why we have done what we have done.

How best to achieve an effective safe space is complex and the current drafting has been arrived at through years of detailed policy work, including pre-legislative scrutiny before the Health Service Safety Investigations Bill was introduced in the other place in autumn 2019. The issue was also debated at length in Committee, and I look forward to hearing contributions from Members on that, particularly the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire.

Turning to the two minor and technical Government amendments to the health service safety investigations body provisions, amendment 24 is a technical amendment to clarify the definition of “investigation” that applies to part 4 of the Bill. Investigations carried out by HSSIB by agreement under clause 114, which relate to Wales and Northern Ireland, were never intended to be part of the main investigation function of HSSIB and therefore will not be covered by the safe space or other investigatory power provisions provided for in the Bill. The amendment ensures that the drafting of the Bill fully reflects that original policy position. I hope that hon. Members on both sides of the Chamber will be content to pass this technical amendment.

Finally, I turn to Government amendment 88 to schedule 13. Schedule 13 contains a regulation-making power which allows the Treasury to vary the way any relevant tax has effect in relation to associated transfer schemes. Regulations made under this power will be used to ensure that no unintended tax consequences arise. The amendment ensures that value added tax is included in the taxes which the Treasury can, by regulations, vary when considering the transfer schemes in this Bill. Without this amendment, it is possible that complications with VAT bills may arise when transfer schemes are made and transactions take place. It is for those reasons that I ask hon. Members to support this amendment.

I am conscious that other hon. and right hon. Members may wish to speak to their amendments. I look forward to addressing those that I have not directly addressed thus far when I wind up debate on this group of amendments. With that, I conclude.

[Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for his introduction. It seems like only yesterday that we were having a similar exchange across the Dispatch Box.

I will begin with our new clauses 28 and 29 and amendment 10. This discussion about workforce could well be the most important of all today. Just this weekend, Chris Hopson from NHS Providers was trying to get the Government to acknowledge the seriousness of the problem when he tweeted:

“93k NHS staff vacancies. £6bn spend on temporary staff to fill gaps. 55% of staff working unpaid extra hours each week. 44% saying they’ve felt ill with work related stress. NHS desperately needs long term workforce planning. Govt must make this happen this week.”

Everything comes back to workforce and the failure to invest in it consistently over a sustained period. Today we have a chance to correct that.

While we favour our new clause 29, it is obvious that amendment 10 has captured the attention of many and may well be put to a vote. In many ways, as the Minister said, it closely mirrors what we have put forward, so I will be making my general points on both the new clauses and the amendment. In supporting amendment 10, I pay tribute to the right hon. Member for South West Surrey (Jeremy Hunt), the Chair of the Health and Social Care Committee. Given his previous role, he is well placed to have an informed view on what needs to be done, and he has done that with this amendment without undue hype or drama. The support he has obtained more widely from stakeholders outside the House is impressive; indeed, the way he has united just about the entire sector shows not only his powers of persuasion, but the importance of the issue. He has come close to uniting the entire sector in the past, but that was usually in opposition to something he was proposing, rather than in support. There may be many other areas where we have disagreed in the past, but that does not diminish our support for his call.

--- Later in debate ---

[Derek Thomas (St Ives) (Con)]

I rise to speak on amendment 10 on workforce planning, in the name of my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Surrey (Jeremy Hunt). However, surely the Government’s urgent priority is to look at effective ways to attract back into the NHS all those consultants, nurses and social care workers who have left, and to find any way they can to bring back that experience and expertise.

With your permission, Mr Deputy Speaker, I would like to talk about some lived experience. Just last Friday, I came across a lady who had fallen over and clearly injured herself. I phoned 999, knowing full well that I would be entering a system under severe stress and pressure. I confess that, as it happened. I put the phone down, because the priority for me was to ensure that she was safe, warm and comfortable.

The ambulance service called me back and told me it would be a wait of several hours. I knew that that was caused by the pressure on the ambulance service and on A&E and the subsequent pressure on beds, hindering the effective and timely treatment of people who go to hospital. The pressure on admission to A&E also affects surgery. All that pressure goes down to one place in Cornwall, and Cornwall will not be unique: delayed transfers of care.

We have been in this place before: in 2016, a system-wide review of the situation in Cornwall found far too many people who would be better off in the community, being looked after in homes or care homes, but were stuck in hospital. In Cornwall today I understand the figure is more than 100 people in that exact situation. The pressure on the whole system is largely to do with those delayed transfers of care. While much has been said about the workforce planning for the NHS, I will quickly touch on workforce planning for the care workforce.

The emphasis on workforce planning should transform the current state of the care workforce, leading to better support, better training, better pay and better status. I am hopeful that the White Paper will address that, as it is the only way to effectively ease the pressure on acute NHS settings. There is an urgent need to understand and address the pressure on care staff, GP practices and community care across the board.

Maybe I should have said this at the beginning, but I chair the all-party parliamentary group on diabetes. Several years ago, we found that, in the whole of the south-west, training for podiatry was coming to an end because of a lack of funding and the way it was delivered across the region. That had an immediate impact on community care and how people could be cared for and enabled to live with and manage their condition, which ultimately puts more pressure on urgent care.

As we look at workforce planning and how to understand exactly what is needed, I particularly thank the NHS staff who have worked so hard, especially those I met at the beginning of the year, who, as they delivered the vaccine roll-out, told me they were doing it for the national effort. Workforce planning and the commitment to ensuring that we have the workforce where they are needed, with the skills they need, is the best way to reward our NHS workforce.

[Edward Argar]

This is a little more generous than the six minutes I feared I might have to work with, Mr Deputy Speaker.

If I may, I will address each set or theme of amendments in turn. First, I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for North West Durham (Mr Holden) for the work he has done. He rightly highlights that in a sense he is but the voice of the campaigners who have worked so hard on this issue over a very long period. I am pleased that today, while it is not his exact amendment, we have been able to work together to table an amendment that I hope will command cross-party support across the House to deliver on what he has campaigned so effectively for.

I have known my hon. Friend a very long time, so I should not have been surprised by the persistence with which he beat a path to my door to seek to secure agreement on exactly this policy issue.

[Mr Holden]

Can I just say that the Minister has been absolutely superb in engaging throughout this process? I would like to thank the shadow team as well, who in Committee and today—and throughout—have shown real conviction towards this end. I thank the Minister and his team and also the shadow team for all they have done.

[Edward Argar]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who I think covered both bases there very eloquently. He makes an important point on this issue. The change will make a real difference to people’s lives, so I commend him for his work.

New clause 1 was tabled by my right hon. Friend the Member for Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes) and would give the Secretary of State the power to introduce a licensing regime for aesthetic non-surgical cosmetic procedures, making it an offence for someone to practise without a licence. I thank her for bringing this to the House today. In that context, I also pay tribute to the right hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones); my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock (Jackie Doyle-Price), who has taken a very close interest in the issue; and of course my hon. Friend the Member for Sevenoaks (Laura Trott) not only for taking a close interest in the issue, but for her success, with her private Member’s Bill, in moving the dial further forward on the issue more broadly.

As I said in Committee, I entirely understand the intention behind the amendment and that a strong case has been made for further regulation in this area. I and the Department are keen to work with stakeholders, including Members of this House on both sides, to see whether we can take this forward in the most appropriate way and clarify the scope of any further regulation. We are happy—we had a very positive meeting, which was alluded to—and I hope that we will be able to continue to explore the issue with hon. and right hon. Members.

In this context, I also commend the all-party parliamentary group on beauty, aesthetics and wellbeing for its important work. Its inquiry highlights the huge range of non-surgical cosmetic procedures available, which vary in their level of complexity and invasiveness. We are carefully considering the findings of that report, including, in that context, its recommendation for a licensing system. We look forward to reporting our conclusions from that work early in 2022. I look forward to working with my right hon. Friend the Member for Romsey and Southampton North and others on that.

Amendment 57 was tabled by the hon. Member for Wirral West (Margaret Greenwood). I can entirely understand where she is coming from—that the professions protected in law must be the right ones, with the right regulatory oversight, recognising that regulation is there for safety. We believe there is no immediate case to change the professions that are regulated, but we will consider whether any new groups of workers should be brought into statutory regulation, and the power to remove professions from regulations would only be used where regulation is no longer required for the protection of the public. For these reasons, we think the approach we are adopting is the right one, but I always reflect on what she says. Even when I do not entirely agree with all of it, I always reflect carefully because she has taken a long-standing interest in these issues.

The hon. Member for Brent Central (Dawn Butler) raised the issue of the title of “nurse” and protection for it. The title “registered nurse” is protected in law. Currently —she is right—the title “nurse” is not protected, given that it is used across multiple professions, including dental nurses, school nurses, veterinary nurses and similar. As has been pointed out by the interim chief nursing officer for Scotland, any change would need careful consideration of the impact on other groups currently using the title “nurse” outside healthcare settings.

I can see the benefit in providing reassurance and clarity for both patients and professionals. I would also note that the protection of a title is only one part of the regulatory system and the complexities associated with that. I understand where the hon. Member is coming from with her new clause 12. What I would say is that any subsequent change could form part of the legislative reform programme for the Nursing and Midwifery Council, which will be taken forward by secondary legislation made under section 60 of the Health Act 1999. But we do not feel we are able to accept her new clause, as drafted at the moment, because we do not feel that it addresses those fundamental challenges.

[Dawn Butler]

rose—

[Edward Argar]

If the hon. Member is going to be brief, I will of course give way to her.

[Dawn Butler]

I was going to quickly say that the Government’s response to Alison Leary’s very good petition says that the Government understand it. We could pass the new clause today and then the Minister could amend it in Committee.

[Edward Argar]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady, but we have had the Committee. We are now at the stage where we have been through this, and I therefore do not think it would be appropriate to pass an amendment that we thought was flawed in its drafting. I can understand the intent behind it, and I have said that I will continue to reflect on that, but we do not feel we can support the amendment as drafted.

On amendment 10 and new clause 28, hon. and right hon. Members who have spoken to those amendments from both sides of the House have raised something that I think is of huge importance to all Members of this House. As I said in my opening remarks, we all recognise that technology, kit and buildings are all wonderful if we invest in them, but they are nothing without the people—the professionals—who know how to care, are able to care and are able to use that kit to provide the best possible outcomes for our constituents. The workforce are in a sense the beating heart of our NHS, and it is important that I again recognise and join the Opposition in paying tribute to the work undertaken by the workforce.

I appreciate entirely the strongly held, sincerely held and, as ever with my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Surrey (Jeremy Hunt), well-informed views that he brings to this debate, based on his extensive experience. I would extend that to the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Justin Madders), in a spirit of bipartisan cordiality. I hope I have been able to help to reassure colleagues just how seriously we take this issues. Hon. and right hon. Members have been right to raise the issue. We reflect very carefully on it. We have already, as I have said, not only set out plans for elective recovery and further reforms to improve recruitment and support for our workforce, but announced yesterday the merger of Health Education England with NHS England, which we believe is an important next step in making sure that workforce needs can be considered in the round. The other key element is, as I say, the development, commissioned in July, of a robust, long-term—15-year—strategic framework for the health and social care workforce.

We are in no way complacent or resting on our laurels in the case of the workforce. Despite the significant progress we have made in recruiting more nurses and more doctors, there is clearly a lot more to do. We recognise that, and I believe it was a point well made by my hon. Friend the Member for Boston and Skegness (Matt Warman). He declared his interest. I do not know whether I need to, but his wife is a friend of mine; I should probably declare that too. He made some important points, a key point being that this is not just about projections for recruitment. It is absolutely right that we are focused, as we are, on the retention of our existing highly trained, highly skilled and highly experienced workforce. We look at what measures we can continue to take to address those challenges.

There is the need to recognise that that workforce—the workforce who are delivering on elective recovery and who are delivering on tackling those waiting lists—are the same people who have been working flat out throughout this pandemic, and emotionally and physically need the space and time to be able to recover. We recognise that and take it extremely seriously. I think it was my hon. Friend the Member for Peterborough (Paul Bristow)—he has jumped around the Chamber slightly in taking his seat—who made the point about reporting and monitoring mechanisms to know how the framework is working and that we are doing the right thing. While we are not, I have to say, fully convinced by the case made by my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Surrey, I take the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Peterborough about that. I will continue to reflect very carefully on that, on what my right hon. Friend has tabled and on the points he made in debate and in his many meetings with me and other ministerial colleagues.

In the minute or so I have left, I want to briefly touch on the HSSIB amendments, which I know are important, particularly to the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire (Dr Whitford), but I think she reflects broader opinion in this House. As discussed in Committee, the definition given in clause 108(2) is intentionally broad. HSSIB will be carrying out a range of investigations, and we believe it would be impossible to prospectively identify the material that will be gathered and should therefore be protected by safe space. Similarly, while I take the point she makes about senior coroners and coroners’ involvement, we believe that we have struck the right balance in not extending the safe space exemptions more widely, but recognising the unique status that those judicial office holders have.

I hope I have been able to cover the main themes of the amendments tabled in this group. I hope I have been able to reassure hon. and right hon. Members on both sides of this House, particularly in respect of the workforce, just how seriously Her Majesty’s Government take that issue, and the points genuinely and sincerely made by Members on both sides of the House in that context.

Question put and agreed to.

New clause 36 accordingly read a Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 37

Offence of offering to carry out virginity testing: England and Wales

‘(1) It is an offence under the law of England and Wales—

(a) for a person in England and Wales to offer to carry out virginity testing in the United Kingdom or virginity testing that has a sufficient jurisdictional connection, or

(b) for a person anywhere to offer to carry out virginity testing if the person is a United Kingdom national or habitually resident in England and Wales.

(2) Virginity testing has a sufficient jurisdictional connection for the purposes of subsection (1)(a) if it is carried out in relation to a person who is—

(a) a United Kingdom national, or

(b) habitually resident in the United Kingdom.

(3) In this section—

“United Kingdom national” has the meaning given by section (Offence of virginity testing: England and Wales)(4);

“virginity testing” has the meaning given by section (Offence of virginity testing: England and Wales)(2).’ —(Edward Argar.)

This new clause creates an offence under the law of England and Wales of offering to carry out virginity testing.

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 38

Offence of aiding or abetting etc a person to carry out virginity testing: England and Wales

‘(1) It is an offence under the law of England and Wales for a person who is in England and Wales, or for a person who is outside England and Wales but who is a United Kingdom national or habitually resident in England and Wales, to aid, abet, counsel or procure the carrying out of virginity testing that has a sufficient jurisdictional connection.

(2) Virginity testing has a sufficient jurisdictional connection for the purposes of subsection (1) if it is carried out in relation to a person who is—

(a) in the United Kingdom,

(b) a United Kingdom national, or

(c) habitually resident in the United Kingdom.

(3) This section does not affect the application to an offence under section (Offence of virginity testing: England and Wales) of any rule of law relating to aiding, abetting, counselling or procuring.

(4) In this section—

“United Kingdom national” has the meaning given by section (Offence of virginity testing: England and Wales)(4);

“virginity testing” has the meaning given by section (Offence of virginity testing: England and Wales)(2).’. —(Edward Argar.)

This new clause creates an offence of aiding etc a person to carry out virginity testing in circumstances where the carrying out of that testing might not itself be an offence (depending on the location or status of the person carrying out the testing)

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 39

Virginity testing offences in England and Wales: penalties

‘(1) A person who commits an offence under section (Offence of virginity testing: England and Wales), (Offence of offering to carry out virginity testing: England and Wales) or (Offence of aiding or abetting etc a person to carry out virginity testing: England and Wales), is liable—In subsection (1)(a) “the maximum summary term for either-way offences” means—

(a) on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding the maximum summary term for either-way offences or a fine (or both);

(b) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or a fine (or both).

(c) in relation to an offence committed before the time when paragraph 24(2) of Schedule 22 to the Sentencing Act 2020 comes into force, 6 months;

(d) in relation to an offence committed after that time, 12 months.’ —(Edward Argar.)

This new clause sets out the penalties for the new offences under the law of England and Wales relating to virginity testing.

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 40

Offence of virginity testing: Scotland

‘(1) It is an offence under the law of Scotland for a person to carry out virginity testing.

(2) “Virginity testing” means the examination of female genitalia, with or without consent, for the purpose (or purported purpose) of determining virginity.

(3) An offence is committed under subsection (1) only if the person—

(a) is in Scotland, or

(b) is outside the United Kingdom, and is a United Kingdom national or habitually resident in Scotland.

(4) “United Kingdom national” means an individual who is—

(a) a British citizen, a British overseas territories citizen, a British National (Overseas) or a British Overseas citizen,

(b) a person who under the British Nationality Act 1981 is a British subject, or

(c) a British protected person within the meaning of that Act.

(5) In subsection (2), “female genitalia” means a vagina or vulva.’

This new clause creates an offence under the law of Scotland of virginity testing.—(Edward Argar.)

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 41

Offence of offering to carry out virginity testing: Scotland

‘(1) It is an offence under the law of Scotland—

(a) for a person in Scotland to offer to carry out virginity testing in the United Kingdom or virginity testing that has a sufficient jurisdictional connection, or

(b) for a person anywhere to offer to carry out virginity testing if the person is a United Kingdom national or habitually resident in Scotland.

(2) Virginity testing has a sufficient jurisdictional connection for the purposes of subsection (1)(a) if it is carried out in relation to a person who is—

(a) a United Kingdom national, or

(b) habitually resident in the United Kingdom.

(3) In this section—

“United Kingdom national” has the meaning given by section (Offence of virginity testing: Scotland)(4);

“virginity testing” has the meaning given by section (Offence of virginity testing: Scotland)(2).’ —(Edward Argar.)

This new clause creates an offence under the law of Scotland of offering to carry out virginity testing.

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 42

Offence of aiding or abetting etc a person to carry out virginity testing: Scotland

‘(1) It is an offence under the law of Scotland for a person who is in Scotland, or for a person who is outside Scotland but who is a United Kingdom national or habitually resident in Scotland, to aid, abet, counsel, procure or incite the carrying out of virginity testing that has a sufficient jurisdictional connection.

(2) Virginity testing has a sufficient jurisdictional connection for the purposes of subsection (1) if it is carried out in relation to a person who is—

(a) in the United Kingdom,

(b) a United Kingdom national, or

(c) habitually resident in the United Kingdom.

(3) This section does not affect the application to an offence under section (Offence of virginity testing: Scotland) of any rule of law relating to aiding, abetting, counselling, procuring or inciting.

(4) In this section—

“United Kingdom national” has the meaning given by section (Offence of virginity testing: Scotland)(4);

“virginity testing” has the meaning given by section (Offence of virginity testing: Scotland)(2).’ —(Edward Argar.)

This new clause creates an offence of aiding etc a person to carry out virginity testing in circumstances where the carrying out of that testing might not itself be an offence (depending on the location or status of the person carrying out the testing).

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 43

Virginity testing offences in Scotland: penalties and supplementary

‘(1) A person who commits an offence under section (Offence of virginity testing: Scotland), (Offence of offering to carry out virginity testing: Scotland) or (Offence of aiding or abetting etc a person to carry out virginity testing: Scotland), is liable—

(a) on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum (or both);

(b) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or a fine (or both).

(2) Where a person outside Scotland commits an offence under section (Offence of virginity testing: Scotland), (Offence of offering to carry out virginity testing: Scotland) or (Offence of aiding or abetting etc a person to carry out virginity testing: Scotland) the person may be prosecuted, tried and punished for the offence—

(a) in a sheriff court district in which the person is apprehended or in custody, or

(b) in a sheriff court district determined by the Lord Advocate,

as if the offence had been committed in that district.

Where subsection (2) applies, the offence is, for all purposes incidental to or consequential on the trial and punishment, deemed to have been committed in that district.

(3) In this section “sheriff court district” is to be construed in accordance with section 307(1) of the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995 (interpretation).’—(Edward Argar.)

This new clause sets out the penalties for the new offences under the law of Scotland relating to virginity testing.

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 44

Offence of virginity testing: Northern Ireland

‘(1) It is an offence under the law of Northern Ireland for a person to carry out virginity testing.

(2) “Virginity testing” means the examination of female genitalia, with or without consent, for the purpose (or purported purpose) of determining virginity.

(3) An offence is committed under subsection (1) only if the person—

(a) is in Northern Ireland, or

(b) is outside the United Kingdom, and is a United Kingdom national or habitually resident in Northern Ireland.

(4) “United Kingdom national” means an individual who is—

(a) a British citizen, a British overseas territories citizen, a British National (Overseas) or a British Overseas citizen,

(b) a person who under the British Nationality Act 1981 is a British subject, or

(c) a British protected person within the meaning of that Act.

(5) In subsection (2), “female genitalia” means a vagina or vulva.’ —(Edward Argar.)

This new clause creates an offence under the law of Northern Ireland of virginity testing.

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 45

Offence of offering to carry out virginity testing: Northern Ireland

‘(1) It is an offence under the law of Northern Ireland—

(a) for a person in Northern Ireland to offer to carry out virginity testing in the United Kingdom or virginity testing that has a sufficient jurisdictional connection, or

(b) for a person anywhere to offer to carry out virginity testing if the person is a United Kingdom national or habitually resident in Northern Ireland.

(2) Virginity testing has a sufficient jurisdictional connection for the purposes of subsection (1)(a) if it is carried out in relation to a person who is—

(a) a United Kingdom national, or

(b) habitually resident in the United Kingdom.

(3) In this section—

“United Kingdom national” has the meaning given by section (Offence of virginity testing: Northern Ireland)(4);

“virginity testing” has the meaning given by section (Offence of virginity testing: Northern Ireland)(2).’ —(Edward Argar.)

This new clause creates an offence under the law of Northern Ireland of offering to carry out virginity testing.

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 46

Offence of aiding or abetting etc a person to carry out virginity testing: Northern Ireland

‘(1) It is an offence under the law of Northern Ireland for a person who is in Northern Ireland, or for a person who is outside Northern Ireland but who is a United Kingdom national or habitually resident in Northern Ireland, to aid, abet, counsel or procure the carrying out of virginity testing that has a sufficient jurisdictional connection.

(2) Virginity testing has a sufficient jurisdictional connection for the purposes of subsection (1) if it is carried out in relation to a person who is—

(a) in the United Kingdom,

(b) a United Kingdom national, or

(c) habitually resident in the United Kingdom.

(3) This section does not affect the application to an offence under section (Offence of virginity testing: Northern Ireland) of any rule of law relating to aiding, abetting, counselling or procuring.

(4) In this section—

“United Kingdom national” has the meaning given by section (Offence of virginity testing: Northern Ireland)(4);

“virginity testing” has the meaning given by section (Offence of virginity testing: Northern Ireland)(2).’ —(Edward Argar.)

This new clause creates an offence of aiding etc a person to carry out virginity testing in circumstances where the carrying out of that testing might not itself be an offence (depending on the location or status of the person carrying out the testing).

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 47

Virginity testing offences in Northern Ireland: penalties

‘A person who commits an offence under section (Offence of virginity testing: Northern Ireland), (Offence of offering to carry out virginity testing: Northern Ireland) or (Offence of aiding or abetting etc a person to carry out virginity testing: Northern Ireland) is liable—

(a) on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum (or both);

(b) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or a fine (or both).” —(Edward Argar.)

This new clause sets out the penalties for the new offences under the law of Northern Ireland relating to virginity testing.

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 48

Virginity testing: consequential amendments

‘Schedule (Virginity testing: consequential amendments) contains consequential amendments.’—(Edward Argar.)

This new clause introduces a Schedule of consequential amendments relating to the new virginity testing offences.

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

We are now coming on to the next group of amendments. As hon. Members can see, we have only an hour left, so can I plead to everyone who is participating, including the Front Benchers: short contributions, please, so we can get as many people in as we possibly can?

New Clause 62

Pharmaceutical services: remuneration in respect of vaccines etc

“(1) In section 164 of the National Health Service Act 2006 (remuneration for persons providing pharmaceutical services)—

(a) in subsection (8A) for ‘special medicinal products’ substitute ‘any of the following—

(a) drugs or medicines used for vaccinating or immunising people against disease,

(b) anything used in connection with the supply or administration of drugs or medicines within paragraph (a),

(c) drugs or medicines, not within paragraph (a), that are used for preventing or treating a disease that, at the time the regulations are made, the Secretary of State considers to be a pandemic disease or at risk of becoming a pandemic disease,

(d) anything used in connection with the supply or administration of drugs or medicines within paragraph (c), or

(e) a product which is a special medicinal product for the purposes of regulation 167 of the Human Medicines Regulations 2012 (S.I. 2012/1916).’;

(b) in subsection (8D)—

(i) for ‘special medicinal products are’ substitute ‘anything within subsection (8A)(a) to (e) is’;

(ii) in paragraph (b), for ‘special medicinal products’ substitute ‘that thing,’;

(c) subsection (8E), omit the definition of ‘special medicinal product’;

(d) after subsection (8E) insert—

‘(8F) Where regulations include provision made in reliance on subsection (8A)(c) or (d) and the Secretary of State considers that the disease to which it relates is no longer a pandemic disease or at risk of becoming a pandemic disease, the Secretary of State must revoke that provision within such period as the Secretary of State considers reasonable (taking into account, in particular, the need for any transitional arrangements).’

(2) In section 88 of the National Health Service (Wales) Act 2006 (remuneration for persons providing pharmaceutical services)—

(a) in subsection (8A) for ‘special medicinal products’ substitute ‘any of the following—

(a) drugs or medicines used for vaccinating or immunising people against disease,

(b) anything used in connection with the supply or administration of drugs or medicines within paragraph (a),

(c) drugs or medicines, not within paragraph (a), that are used for preventing or treating a disease that, at the time the regulations are made, the Welsh Ministers consider to be a pandemic disease or at risk of becoming a pandemic disease,

(d) anything used in connection with the supply or administration of drugs or medicines within paragraph (c), or

(e) a product which is a special medicinal product for the purposes of regulation 167 of the Human Medicines Regulations 2012 (S.I. 2012/1916).’;

(b) in subsection (8D)—

(i) for ‘special medicinal products are’ substitute ‘anything within subsection (8A)(a) to (e) is’;

(ii) in paragraph (b), for ‘special medicinal products’ substitute ‘that thing,’;

(c) in subsection (8E), omit the definition of ‘special medicinal product’;

(d) after subsection (8E) insert—

‘(8F) Where regulations include provision made in reliance on subsection (8A)(c) or (d) and the Welsh Ministers consider that the disease to which it relates is no longer a pandemic disease or at risk of becoming a pandemic disease, the Welsh Ministers must revoke that provision within such period as the Welsh Ministers consider reasonable (taking into account, in particular, the need for any transitional arrangements).’”—(Edward Argar.)

This amendment replicates the amendments currently made by clause 76 and makes corresponding provision for Wales. As a consequence clause 76 is left out by Amendment 115.

Brought up, and read the First time.

[Edward Argar]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[Mr Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

New clause 13—National self-care strategy—

“(1) The Secretary of State must prepare a National Self-Care Strategy to fully integrate self-care for minor ailments into the wider health system.

(2) The National Self-Care Strategy must have regard to the need to—

(a) address inequalities in health literacy;

(b) enhance the understanding of primary and secondary age children on how to self-care;

(c) introduce self-care modules in healthcare professionals’ training curricula and continuing professional development;

(d) make best use of, and expand, the Community Pharmacist Consultation Service;

(e) improve access to effective self-care treatments;

(f) enable community pharmacists to refer people directly to other healthcare professionals;

(g) ensure better support for primary care networks to deliver self-care;

(h) evaluate the use of technologies that have been developed during the COVID-19 pandemic to promote greater self-care; and

(i) accelerate efforts to enable community pharmacists to populate medical records.”

This new clause would ensure that the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care publishes a national self-care strategy to integrate self-care for minor ailments into the health system.

New clause 18—Secretary of State’s duty to report on access to NHS dentistry—

“(1) The Secretary of State must publish an annual report setting out levels of access to NHS dentistry across England and average waiting times for primary care dental treatment in each region, and describing the action being taken to improve them.

(2) NHS England and Health Education England must assist in the preparation of a report under this section, if requested to do so by the Secretary of State.”

This new clause would require the Secretary of State to report annually on the levels of access to NHS dentistry in England, setting out average waiting times for primary care dental treatment in each region, and describing action being taken to improve them as necessary.

New clause 19—Inclusion in the NHS mandate of cancer outcome targets—

“(1) Section 13A of the National Health Service Act 2006 (Mandate) is amended in accordance with subsection (2).

(2) After subsection (2), insert the following new subsection—

‘(2A) The objectives that the Secretary of State considers NHS England should seek to achieve which are specified in subsection (2)(a) must include objectives for cancer treatment defined by outcomes for patients with cancer, and those objectives are to be treated by NHS England as having priority over any other objectives relating to cancer treatment.’”

This new clause would require the Secretary of State to set objectives for the NHS on cancer treatment which are defined by outcomes (such as one-year or five-year survival rates), and would give those objectives priority over any other objectives relating to cancer treatment (such as waiting times).

New clause 20—Annual parity of esteem report: spending on mental health and mental illness—

“Within six weeks of the end of each financial year, the Secretary of State must lay before each House of Parliament a report on the ways in which the allotment made to NHS England for that financial year contributed to the promotion in England of a comprehensive health service designed to secure improvement—

(a) in the mental health of the people of England, and

(b) in the prevention, diagnosis and treatment of mental illness.”

This new clause would require the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care to make an annual statement on how the funding received by mental health services that year from the overall annual allotment has contributed to the improvement of mental health and the prevention, diagnosis and treatment of mental illness.

New clause 23—NHS Good Governance Commission—

“(1) Regulations shall provide for the establishment of an NHS Good Governance Commission as a Special Health Authority.

(2) The Commission shall have responsibility for ensuring that anyone appointed to, or elected into, a non-executive role on an NHS Body—

(a) is a fit and proper person for that role; and

(b) has been appointed or elected by a process that the Commission considers appropriate.”

This new clause returns to the position prior to 2012 and ensures independent oversight of important NHS appointments.

New clause 24—Appropriate consent to transplantation activities when travelling abroad—

“The Human Tissue Act 2004 is amended as follows—

‘(1) Section 32 (Prohibition of commercial dealings in human material for transplantation) is amended as follows.

(2) In subsection (1), after paragraph (e) insert—

“(f) travels outside the United Kingdom—

(i) to a country with a system of deemed consent for the donation of controlled material which does not meet the criteria in subsection (1A) and receives any controlled material, for the purpose of transplantation, and

(ii) to a country with a system of explicit consent for the donation of controlled material and receives any controlled material for the purpose of transplantation where the material was obtained without—

(A) the free, informed and specific consent of a living donor, or

(B) the free, informed and specific consent of the donor’s next of kin, where the donor is unable to provide consent; and

(g) receives any controlled material for the purpose of transplantation for which, in exchange for the removal of controlled material—

(i) the living donor, or a third party, receives a financial gain or comparable advantage, or

(ii) from a deceased donor, a third party receives financial gain or comparable advantage.

(1A) The Secretary of State must publish an annual assessment of countries with a system of deemed consent for donation of controlled material determining whether each of those countries—

(a) provides a formal, publicly funded scheme for opting out of deemed consent for donation of controlled material, and

(b) provides an effective programme of public education to its population on the deemed consent system and the opt-out scheme which delivers a high level of public understanding of both.

(1B) For the purposes of paragraphs (f) and (g) in subsection (1), it is immaterial whether the offence of dealing in controlled material for transplantation is caused by an act or an omission.

(1C) For the purposes of paragraph (g) in subsection (1), it is immaterial whether the acts or omissions which form part of the offence take place in the United Kingdom or elsewhere.

(1D) In paragraph (g) in subsection (1), the expression “financial gain or comparable advantage” does not include compensation for loss of earnings and any other justifiable expenses caused by the removal or by the related medical examinations, or compensation in case of damage which is not inherent to the removal of controlled material.

(1E) Subsection (1F) applies if—

(a) no act which forms part of an offence under subsection (1) takes place in the United Kingdom, but

(b) the person committing the offence has a close connection with the United Kingdom.

(1F) For the purposes of subsection (1e)(b), a person has a close connection with the United Kingdom if, and only if, the person was one of the following at the time the acts or omissions concerned were done or made—

(a) a British citizen,

(b) a British overseas territories citizen,

(c) a British National (Overseas),

(d) a British Overseas citizen,

(e) a person who under the British Nationality Act 1981 was a British subject,

(f) a British protected person within the meaning of that Act,

(g) an individual ordinarily resident in the United Kingdom,

(h) a body incorporated under the law of any part of the United Kingdom,

(i) a Scottish partnership.

(1G) In such a case, proceedings for the offence may be taken in any criminal court in England and Wales or Northern Ireland.”

(3) In subsection (3), after “subsection (1)” insert “(a) to (e)”.

(6) In subsection (4), after “subsection (1)” insert “(a) to (e)”.

(7) After subsection (4) insert—

“(4A) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1)(f) or (1)(g) shall be liable—

(a) on summary conviction—

(i) to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months,

(ii) to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum, or

(iii) to both;

(b) on conviction on indictment—

(i) to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 9 years,

(ii) to a fine, or

(iii) to both.”

(6) Section 34 (Information about transplant operations) is amended as follows.

(12) After subsection (2) insert—

“(2A) Regulations under subsection (1) must require specified persons to—

(a) keep patient identifiable records for all instances of UK citizens who have received transplant procedures performed outside the United Kingdom; and

(b) report instances of transplant procedures performed on UK citizens outside the United Kingdom to NHS Blood and Transplant.

(2B) Regulations under subsection (1) must require NHS Blood and Transplant to produce an annual report on instances of UK citizens receiving transplant procedures outside the United Kingdom.”’”

New clause 25—Regulation of the public display of imported cadavers—

“(1) The Human Tissue Act 2004 is amended as follows.

(2) In subsections (5)(a), (6)(a) and (6)(b) of section 1 (authorisation of activities for scheduled purposes) after ‘imported’ insert ‘other than for the purpose of public display’.”

New clause 26—Report on claims for reimbursement of the immigration health surcharge—

“The Secretary of State must publish and lay a Report before Parliament giving the numbers of completed claims that have been made under the immigration health surcharge reimbursement scheme within 6 weeks of the commencement of this Act.”

This new clause requires the Secretary of State to report the number of completed claims under the Immigration Health Surcharge for NHS and care workers from overseas.

New clause 27—Secretary of State’s duty to report on waiting times for treatment—

“The Secretary of State must prepare and publish a report annually on waiting times for treatment in England, disparities in waiting times for treatment in England and the steps being taken to ensure that patients can access services within maximum waiting times in accordance with their rights in the NHS Constitution.”

New clause 30—Problem drug use as a health issue—

“(1) The UK Government will adopt a cross-government approach to drugs policy which treats problem drug use as primarily a health issue (‘the health issue principle’).

(2) In accordance with the health issue principle, the Prime Minister must, as soon as reasonably practicable—

(a) make the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care responsible for leading drugs policy in England,

(b) lay before Parliament a report on the steps that will be taken to transfer responsibilities to the Department for Health and Social Care from other departments, and

(c) undertake a review of devolution and drugs policy in light of that transfer and in accordance with subsection (3).

(3) The review of devolution and drugs policy must consider—

(a) steps to transfer responsibility for drugs policy to the devolved administrations in a manner consistent with the health issue principle and the transfers of responsibilities in England in subsection (2), and

(b) the consistency of the devolution settlement, including the specific reservation of the misuse of drugs under paragraph B1 of Part II of Schedule 5 of the Scotland Act 1998, paragraph 54 of Schedule 7A of the Government of Wales Act 2006 and paragraph 9f of Schedule 3 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998 with the health principle and any associated recommendations for change.

(4) In undertaking that review, the Prime Minister must consult—

(a) the Scottish Ministers,

(b) the Welsh Ministers, and

(c) the Department of Health in Northern Ireland.

(5) A report on the findings of the review must be laid before Parliament within six months of the passing of this Act.”

This new clause would require the UK Government to approach problem drug use primarily as a health issue and, in so doing, to make the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care the lead minister for drugs policy in England. The Prime Minister would also be required to undertake a review of the devolution of responsibility over drugs policy in the new context of recognising problem drug use primarily as a health issue.

New clause 31—Reduction in upper gestation limit for abortion to 22 weeks’ gestation—

“(1) The Infant Life (Preservation) Act 1929 is amended as follows.

In section 1(2) for ‘twenty-eight’ substitute ‘twenty-two’.

(2) The Abortion Act 1967 is amended as follows.

In section 1(1)(a) for ‘twenty-fourth’ substitute ‘twenty-second’.”

This new clause would reduce the upper gestational limit for abortion in most cases to 22 weeks’ gestation.

New clause 32—Resolution of differences over the care of children with life-limiting illnesses—

“(1) This section applies where there is a difference of opinion between a parent of a child with a life-limiting illness and a doctor responsible for the child’s treatment about—

(a) the nature (or extent) of specialist palliative care that should be made available for the child, or

(b) the extent to which palliative care provided to the child should be accompanied by one or more disease-modifying treatments.

(2) Where the authorities responsible for a health service hospital become aware of the difference of opinion they must take all reasonable steps—

(a) to ensure that the views of the parent, and of anyone else concerned with the welfare of the child, are listened to and taken into account;

(b) to make available to the parent any medical data relating to the child which is reasonably required as evidence in support of the parent’s proposals for the child’s treatment (including obtaining an additional medical opinion);

(c) to refer the difference of opinion to any appropriate clinical ethics committee (whether or not within the hospital) or to any other appropriate source for advice.

(3) Where the responsible authorities consider that the difference of opinion is unlikely to be resolved informally, they must take all reasonable steps to provide for a mediation process, between the parent or parents and the doctor or doctors, which is acceptable to both parties.

(4) In the application of subsections (2) and (3) the hospital authorities—

(a) must involve the child’s specialist palliative care team so far as possible; and

(b) may refuse to make medical data available if the High Court grants an application to that effect on the grounds that disclosure might put the child’s safety at risk in special circumstances.

(5) Where the difference of opinion between the parent and the doctor arises in proceedings before a court—

(a) the child’s parents are entitled to legal aid, within the meaning of section 1 of the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012 (Lord Chancellor’s functions) in respect of the proceedings; and the Lord Chancellor must make any necessary regulations under that Act to give effect to this paragraph; and

(b) the court may not make any order that would prevent or obstruct the parent from pursuing proposals for obtaining disease-modifying treatment for the child (whether in the UK or elsewhere) unless the court is satisfied that the proposals—

(i) involve a medical institution that is not generally regarded within the medical community as a responsible and reliable institution, or

(ii) pose a disproportionate risk to the child of significant harm.

(6) Nothing in subsection (4) requires, or may be relied upon so as to require, the provision of any specific treatment by a doctor or institution; in particular, nothing in subsection (4)—

(a) requires the provision of resources for any particular course of treatment; or

(b) requires a doctor to provide treatment that the doctor considers likely to be futile or harmful, or otherwise not in the best interests of the child.

(7) Subsection (4)(a) does not prevent the court from making an order as to costs, or any other order, at any point in the proceedings.

(8) In this section—

‘child’ means an individual under the age of 18;

‘health service hospital’ has the meaning given by section 275 of the National Health Service Act 2006 (interpretation);

‘parent’ means a person with parental responsibility for a child within the meaning of the Children Act 1989; and

‘person concerned with the welfare of the child’ means a parent, grandparent, sibling or half-sibling.

(9) Nothing in this section affects the law about the appropriate clinical practice to be followed as to—

(a) having regard to the child’s own views, where they can be expressed; and

(b) having regard to the views of anyone interested in the welfare of the child, whether or not a person concerned within the welfare of the child within the meaning of this section.”

This new clause has a single purpose, which is to make provision about the resolution of differences of opinion between a child’s parents and the doctors responsible for the child’s treatment.

New clause 34—Visits to care homes—

“(1) Regulation 9 of the Health and Social Care Act 2008 (Regulated Activities) Regulations 2014 is amended as follows.

(2) After Regulation 9, paragraph (3), sub-paragraph (i), insert—

‘(j) facilitating face to face contact between the service user and persons significant to the service user so as to meet the service user’s needs and preferences, having particular regard to their emotional and psychological needs;

(k) where the registered person determines following an individualised risk assessment that unrestricted face to face contact between significant persons and the service user is not possible, facilitating face to face contact with the significant person or persons whom the registered person reasonably believes best meets the needs and preferences of the service user;

(l) where the registered person determines following an individualised risk assessment that no face to face contact between any significant persons and the service user is possible, facilitating contact with significant persons in such other ways as best meets the needs and preferences of the service user and is in accordance with the individualised risk assessment.’

(3) After Regulation 9, paragraph (6), insert—

‘(7) In this regulation

“face to face contact” means contact without fixed physical barriers between the service user and the significant person, but includes contact where the service user and/or relevant person or persons are wearing appropriate personal protective equipment if such is required to prevent or control the spread of infections, including those that are health care associated;

“an individualised risk assessment” means a risk assessment which considers—

(a) the risks to the health and well-being of the service user both of having and not having face to face to contact with either two or more significant persons (for purposes of paragraph 3, sub-paragraph (k)) or one relevant person (for purposes of paragraph 3, sub-paragraph (I));

(b) the risks to the health and well-being of other service users arising from the registered person facilitating face to face contact between the service user and a person or persons significant to that service user; and

(c) the risks to the health and well-being of the service user (and to other service users) of alternative options for contact to minimise the risks identified in (a) and (b).

“significant person” means any person falling within section 4(7) sub-paragraphs (a) to (d) of the 2005 Act (whether or not the service user lacks capacity for purposes of the 2005 Act to decide whether or not to have face to face contact with them) and “person significant to the service user” is to be read accordingly.’”

This new clause would give effect to the recommendation of the Joint Committee on Human Rights to require individualised risk assessments for care home residents, and to ensure procedures are in place for such assessments to be queried where adequate efforts have not been made to enable safe visits to care homes.

New clause 35—Visits to patients in hospital—

“(1) The Secretary of State must by regulations make provision to ensure that arrangements are made to allow visitors to patients staying in hospital.

(2) The regulations must ensure that any such arrangements observe the following principles—

(a) Safety – The approach to visiting must balance the health and safety needs of patients, staff, and visitors, and ensure risks are mitigated.

(b) Emotional well-being – Allowing visitors is intended to support the emotional well-being of patients by reducing any potential negative impacts related to social isolation.

(c) Equitable access – All patients must be given equitable access to receive visitors, consistent with their preferences and within reasonable restrictions that safeguard patients.

(d) Flexibility – The physical/infrastructure characteristics of the hospital, its staffing availability, the risks arising from any outbreak of disease in the hospital and the availability of personal protective equipment are all variables to take into account when setting hospital-specific policies.

(e) Equality – Patients have the right to choose their visitors.”

This new clause would require the Secretary of State to make regulations providing for rights to visit patients in hospital.

New clause 50—Amendment of the law relating to abortion—

“(1) The Offences Against the Person Act 1861 is amended as follows.

(2) In section 58 (administering drugs or using instruments to procure abortion)—

(a) omit the words from the beginning to ‘intent, and’;

(b) at the end insert ‘; but this section does not apply to a woman in relation to the procurement of her own miscarriage.’

(3) In section 59 (procuring drugs, etc. to cause abortion), at the end insert ‘; but this section does not apply to a woman in relation to the rocurement of her own miscarriage.’”

This new clause would have the effect that a woman could not be held criminally liable under the Offences against the Person Act 1861 in relation to procuring, or attempting to procure, her own abortion.

New clause 51—Termination of pregnancy on the grounds of the sex of the foetus—

“Nothing in section 1 of the Abortion Act 1967 is to be interpreted as allowing a pregnancy to be terminated on the grounds of the sex of the foetus.”

This new clause would clarify that abortion on the grounds of the sex of the foetus is illegal.

New clause 52—Introduction of upper gestational limit on abortion on the grounds of disability—

“(1) The Abortion Act 1967 is amended as follows.

(2) In section 1 (Medical termination of pregnancy) at the beginning of sub-paragraph (d) to paragraph (1), insert—

‘that the pregnancy has not exceeded the gestational limit identified in sub-paragraph (a) and’”.

This new clause would introduce an upper gestational limit on abortion on the grounds of disability equal to the upper gestational limit on most other abortions

New clause 53—Review of effect on migrants of charges for NHS treatment—

“(1) Within six months of the passage of this Act, the Secretary of State must conduct a review of the effect on migrants of charges for NHS treatment, and lay a report of that review before Parliament.

(2) Before completing the review, the Secretary of State must consult representatives of groups subject to such charges.”

New clause 54—Equality impact analyses of provisions of this Act—

“(1) The Secretary of State must review the equality impact of the provisions of this Act in accordance with this section and lay a report of that review before the House of Commons within six months of the passage of this Act.

(2) A review under this section must consider the impact of those provisions on—

(a) households at different levels of income,

(b) people with protected characteristics (within the meaning of the Equality Act 2010),

(c) the Government’s compliance with the public sector equality duty under section 149 of the Equality Act 2010, and

(d) equality in different parts of the United Kingdom and different regions of England.

(3) A review under this section must include a separate analysis of each section of the Act, and must also consider the cumulative impact of the Act as a whole.”

New clause 56—Abolition of prescription charges—

“(1) Charges may not be made for NHS prescriptions.

(2) Within six weeks of the passage of this Act, the Secretary of State must exercise the relevant powers under the National Health Service Act 2006 to give effect to subsection (1).

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to any charges which may be made before the action necessary to give effect to that subsection has been taken under subsection (2).”

New clause 60—Duty to consider residents of other parts of UK—

“For section 13O of the National Health Service Act 2006 substitute—

‘130 Duty to consider residents of other parts of UK

(1) In making a decision about the exercise of its functions, NHS England must have regard to any likely impact of the decision on—

(a) the provision of health services to people who reside in Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland, or

(b) services provided in England for the purposes of—

(i) the health service in Wales,

(ii) the system of health care mentioned in section 2(1)(a) of the Health and Social Care (Reform) Act (Northern Ireland) 2009 (c. 1 (N.I.)), or

(iii) the health service established under section 1 of the National Health Service (Scotland) Act 1978.

(2) The Secretary of State must publish guidance for NHS England on the discharge of the duty under subsection (1).

(3) NHS England must have regard to guidance published under subsection (2).’”

This new clause places a duty on NHS England to consider the likely impact of their decisions on the residents of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, and to consider the impact of services provided in England on patient care in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

New clause 61—Interoperability of data and collection of comparable healthcare statistics across the UK—

“(1) The Health and Social Care Act 2012 is amended as follows.

(2) In section 250 (Powers to publish information standards)—

(a) in subsection (3), at the beginning, insert ‘Subject to subsection (3A)’;

(b) after subsection (3), insert the following subsection—

‘(3A) The Secretary of State may also exercise the power under subsection (1) so as to specify binding data interoperability requirements which apply across the whole of the United Kingdom, and an information standard prepared and published by virtue of this subsection may apply to any public body which exercises functions in connection with the provision of health services anywhere in the United Kingdom.’

(c) after subsection (6E) (inserted by section 79 of this Act), insert the following subsection—

‘(6F) The Secretary of State must report to Parliament each year on progress on the implementation of an information standard prepared in accordance with subsection (3A).’

(3) In section 254 (Powers to direct Information Centre to establish information systems), after subsection (2), insert—

‘(2A) The Secretary of State must give a direction under subsection (1) directing the Information Centre to collect and publish information about healthcare performance and outcomes in all parts of the United Kingdom in a way which enables comparison between different parts of the United Kingdom.

(2B) Scottish Ministers, Welsh Ministers and Northern Ireland Ministers must arrange for the information relating to the health services for which they have responsibility described in the direction made under subsection (2A) to be made available to the Information Centre in accordance with the direction.’”

This new clause would enable the Secretary of State to specify binding data interoperability standards across the UK, require the collection and publication of comparable information about healthcare performance and outcomes across the UK, and require Ministers in the devolved institutions to provide information on a comparable basis.

New clause 63—NHS duty to carers—

“NHS bodies must identify unpaid carers who come into contact with NHS services and ensure that their health and wellbeing is taken into account when decisions are made concerning the health and care of the person or people for whom they care.”

New clause 64—Review of public health and health inequalities effects—

“(1) The Secretary of State for Health and Social Care must review the public health and health inequalities effects of the provisions of this Act and lay a report of that review before the House of Commons within six months of the passing of this Act.

(2) A review under this section must consider—

(a) the effects of the provisions of this Act on socioeconomic inequalities and on population groups with protected characteristics as defined by the 2010 Equality Act,

(b) the effects of the provisions of this Act on life expectancy and healthy life expectancy in the UK,

(c) the effects of the provisions of this Act on the levels of relative and absolute poverty in the UK, and

(d) the effects of the provisions of this Act on health inequalities.”

Amendment 89, in clause 4, page 2, line 40, after first “the” insert “physical and mental”.

This amendment requires NHS England to prioritise both the physical and mental health and well-being of the people of England and to work towards the prevention, diagnosis or treatment of both physical and mental illness, replicating the parity of esteem duty introduced in the Health and Social Care Act 2012.

Amendment 67, page 3, line 7, at end insert—

“(d) health inequalities.”

This amendment would modify the triple aim to explicitly require NHS England to take account of health inequalities when making decisions.

Amendment 90, page 3, line 10, after “of” insert “physical and mental”.

This amendment requires NHS England to prioritise both the physical and mental health and well-being of the people of England and to work towards the prevention, diagnosis or treatment of both physical and mental illness, replicating the parity of esteem duty introduced in the Health and Social Care Act 2012.

Amendment 44, in clause 6, page 3, line 40, leave out “person” and insert “relevant public body”.

Amendment 45, page 4, line 1, leave out “person” and insert “public body”.

Amendment 46, page 4, line 4, after “employees”, insert

“, within their terms and conditions of employment,”.

Government amendments 83 and 84.

Amendment 70, page 48, line 34, leave out clause 39.

Amendment 93, in clause 44, page 49, line 31, after first “the” insert “physical and mental”.

This amendment will require NHS Trusts to prioritise both the physical and mental health and well-being of the people of England and to work towards the prevention, diagnosis or treatment of both physical and mental illness, replicating the parity of esteem duty introduced in the Health and Social Care Act 2012.

Amendment 94, page 49, line 36, after first “of” insert “physical and mental”.

This amendment will require NHS Trusts to prioritise both the physical and mental health and well-being of the people of England and to work towards the prevention, diagnosis or treatment of both physical and mental illness, replicating the parity of esteem duty introduced in the Health and Social Care Act 2012.

Amendment 71, page 49, line 39, at end insert—

“(d) health inequalities.”

This amendment would modify the triple aim to explicitly require NHS trusts to take account of health inequalities when making decisions.

Amendment 95, in clause 58, page 55, line 23, after first “the” insert “physical and mental”.

This amendment will require NHS foundation trusts to prioritise both the physical and mental health and well-being of the people of England and to work towards the prevention, diagnosis or treatment of both physical and mental illness, replicating the parity of esteem duty introduced in the Health and Social Care Act 2012.

Amendment 96, page 55, line 28, after first “of” insert “physical and mental”.

This amendment will require NHS foundation trusts to prioritise both the physical and mental health and well-being of the people of England and to work towards the prevention, diagnosis or treatment of both physical and mental illness, replicating the parity of esteem duty introduced in the Health and Social Care Act 2012.

Amendment 97, in clause 66, page 61, line 26, after first “the” insert “physical and mental”.

This amendment will require decisions on licensing of health care to prioritise both the physical and mental health and well-being of the people of England and to work towards the prevention, diagnosis or treatment of both physical and mental illness, replicating the parity of esteem duty introduced in the Health and Social Care Act 2012.

Amendment 98, page 61, line 32, after first “of” insert “physical and mental”.

This amendment will require decisions on licensing of health care to prioritise both the physical and mental health and well-being of the people of England and to work towards the prevention, diagnosis or treatment of both physical and mental illness, replicating the parity of esteem duty introduced in the Health and Social Care Act 2012.

Government amendment 115.

Amendment 60, page 71, line 6, leave out clause 80.

This amendment is to ensure that social care assessments take place prior to discharge from hospital.

Amendment 73, in clause 80, page 71, line 9, at end insert—

“(2A) A social care needs assessment must be carried out by the relevant local authority before a patient is discharged from hospital or within 2 weeks of the date of discharge.

(2B) Each integrated care board must agree with all relevant local authorities the process to apply for social care needs assessment in hospital or after discharge, including reporting on any failures to complete required assessments within the required time and any remedies or penalties that would apply in such cases.

(2C) Each integrated care board must ensure that—

(a) arrangements made for the discharge of any patient without a relevant social care assessment are made with due regard to the care needs and welfare of the patient, and

(b) the additional costs borne by a local authority in caring for a patient whilst carrying out social care needs assessments after a patient has been discharged are met in full.

(2D) The Secretary of State must publish an annual report on the effectiveness of assessment of social care needs after hospital discharge, including a figure of how many patients are readmitted within 28 days.”

Government amendments 116 to 121.

Government amendment 85.

Government amendments 122 to 126.

Government amendment 128.

Amendment 82, in clause 135, page 117, line 14, at end insert—

“(2A) Regulations may only be made under this Act with the consent of the—

(a) Scottish Ministers insofar as they make provision for any matter which falls within the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament,

(b) Welsh Ministers insofar as they make provision for any matter which falls within the legislative competence of Senedd Cymru, and

(c) Northern Ireland Ministers insofar as they make provision for any matter which falls within the legislative competence of the Northern Ireland Assembly.”

This amendment would require the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care to obtain the consent of the relevant devolved government before powers to make regulations under the Act in an area falling within the legislative competence of a devolved institution, are exercised.

Government amendments 129 to 133.

Amendment 103, in schedule 6, page 186, line 4, at end insert—

“‘relevant Health Overview & Scrutiny Committee’ means any Health Overview and Scrutiny Committee in an area to which the proposal for a reconfiguration of NHS services relates.”.

Amendment 104, in schedule 6, page 186, line 31, at end insert—

“(c) must consult relevant Health Overview & Scrutiny Committees.”

Amendment 105, in schedule 6, page 186, line 43, at end insert—

“(aa) have regard to, and publish, the clinical advice of the Integrated Care Board’s Medical Director in relation to any decision under sub-paragraph (2)(a),

(b) publish a statement demonstrating that any decision made under sub-paragraph (2)(a) is in the public interest, and”.

Amendment 54, in schedule 10, page 204, line 7, after “(1),” insert

“not undermine an NHS provider’s ability to provide a service whilst maintaining the pay rates in Agenda for Change, pensions and the other terms and conditions of all eligible NHS staff and”.

This amendment aims to ensure that the pay rates of Agenda for Change, pensions, and other terms and conditions of all eligible NHS staff are not undermined as a result of the adoption of the NHS payment scheme.

Amendment 55, in schedule 10, page 204, line 39, after “following” insert

“on the likely impact of the proposed scheme”.

This amendment requires NHS England to consult stakeholders on the likely impact of the NHS payment scheme.

Amendment 56, in schedule 10, page 204, line 41, at end insert—

“(ba) all relevant trade unions and other organisations representing staff who work in the health and care sectors;”.

This amendment aims to ensure that all relevant trade unions and other organisations representing staff who work in the health and care sectors are consulted by NHS England on the likely impact of the proposed NHS Payment Scheme.

[Edward Argar]

Being conscious of the time, I will endeavour to be brief and try to scoop up in my winding-up speech any particular concerns expressed during the debate.

While this Bill is predominantly about the health service in England, and the majority of measures are England-only, a small number of provisions in the Bill will deliver benefits to residents in all four nations of the United Kingdom. The Government have worked with the devolved Administrations to improve services and outcomes for people across the country, and we have now agreed a package of amendments to some provisions in the Bill to address concerns raised by the DAs. Following that constructive engagement, we are pleased that DA Ministers supported our approach. On 15 November, the Northern Ireland Assembly voted to grant legislative consent motions for the provisions on reciprocal healthcare, medicine information systems and professional regulations.

This group of amendments contains the amendments negotiated with the DAs, and I extend my thanks not only to the DA Ministers and officials, but to the territorial Secretaries of State and offices of this United Kingdom in London for their work. There remain a small number of areas in which final agreement is needed, and one area where work is still ongoing. The group also contains technical Government amendments to ensure that no unintended tax consequences arise as a result of the powers in this Bill.

I will speak briefly to new clause 62 and amendments 115 and 129 and then I will pause to allow hon. Members on both sides to make their contributions and seek to address their points subsequently.

New clause 62 replicates the amendments currently made by clause 76 for England and makes corresponding provision for Wales and, as a consequence, clause 76 is removed by amendment 115, so that the changes made by it, together with the corresponding changes for Wales, can be set out in one place.

The new clause amends both the National Health Service Act 2006 and the National Health Service (Wales) Act 2006, enabling regulations to be made in respect of both England and Wales, allowing for further exemptions from the obligation to reimburse pharmacies under the standard NHS arrangements when centrally stocked products have been supplied free of charge to community pharmacies without the need to reimburse them. That will allow the respective Ministers to create limited additional exemptions to those that can already be created by the existing regulation-making powers introduced in 2017 for unlicensed medicines—more commonly known as “specials”. The additional exemptions are restricted to vaccinations and immunisations, medicinal products used for the prevention or treatment of disease in a pandemic, and associated products, such as diluents and syringes.

There are various reasons why we may seek to centrally procure vaccines or products used to treat a pandemic. When supplying products directly to pharmacies free of charge, we do not want to reimburse pharmacies as well as purchasing the stock itself. Currently, the Government would pay twice as the legislative framework makes provision for the reimbursement price paid to pharmacies to be set at zero only for specials and not for other products.

I am conscious that a considerable number of Members will want to speak either on the devolution aspect of this legislation, which was debated extensively in Committee and to which I will respond in my winding-up speech if I have time. I am also conscious that other right hon. and hon. Members have amendments to which they wish to speak at some length—well, hopefully not at some length, but clearly—to put their points across on important issues, because this group of amendments covers a wide variety of matters. With your permission, Mr Deputy Speaker, I will pause now to allow maximum time for Back Benchers and others to speak and then try to pick up any points in my winding-up speech.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Mike Penning (Hemel Hempstead) (Con)]

I support new clause 19, which I signed, and will wait to see what the Minister says about it.

I want to take issue with the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Justin Madders), who turned around and said to Ministers, “Be careful what you wish for.” Our constituents send us here to represent how their taxation is spent in the NHS. When trusts are refusing to build new hospitals in our constituencies when they have the money to do so, and they want to refurbish hospitals and ignore public opinion and their local MPs, that is where the system goes wrong. I am not saying we should go all the way back to the old system, but there should be accountability in trusts when they do not do what our constituents would expect from them. My constituents would expect me to stand up and say this, because we want a new hospital on a greenfield site to look after the people of west Hertfordshire and our trust is refusing. If the shadow Minister ever becomes a Minister, I hope he has those powers.

[Edward Argar]

This group of amendments has clearly been popular and it is a shame that more right hon. and hon. Members did not get to speak. My remarks will be relatively brief.

On the contributions by my hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce), my right hon. Friends the Members for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh) and for Basingstoke (Mrs Miller) and the hon. Member for Upper Bann (Carla Lockhart), those are deeply emotive and important issues. I entirely respect the strength and sincerity of genuinely held feelings on both sides of the debate. It is important that such matters are aired in the House, but they quite rightly remain a matter of conscience for individual Members, so I shall say no more than that it is important that everyone recognises the genuine views on both sides of the debate.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Basildon and Billericay (Mr Baron) for tabling his new clause 19 and am happy to say that the Government are content to accept it. I know that my hon. Friend’s first concern is the quality of cancer services in this country and the welfare of the patients that they serve. I am pleased that he is keen for us, in accepting the new clause, to explore ahead of the Lords stages of the Bill whether it may give rise to any unintended consequences, with a view to supporting any changes that might need to be made. I look forward to working with him on that in the coming weeks before the Lords stages.

[Mr Baron]

I thank the Minister and the Government for listening and for accepting the new clause in its entirety. It is a progressive step. I and the whole group behind the new clause look forward to working with him. If nuanced changes were required, then, by all means, we would consider them.

[Edward Argar]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his intervention.

Let me turn briefly to amendments 93 to 98 in the names of my hon. Friend the Member for Broxbourne (Sir Charles Walker) and my right hon. Friend the Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May). I can reassure all right hon. and hon. Members that the Government remain committed to supporting everyone’s mental health and wellbeing. I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend for the work that she did in advancing this agenda when she was Prime Minister.

Secondly, let me clarify that the current references in the Bill to illness and health cover mental and physical health and, therefore, the view taken was that it was not necessary to make that explicit.

[Dr Dan Poulter (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Edward Argar]

I fear that I do not have time to cover the other amendments in the four minutes that I have left.

Although I appreciate that my right hon. Friend the Member for Maidenhead and my hon. Friend the Member for Broxbourne will continue to press this matter, may I offer them a meeting with me and the Mental Health Minister to discuss further what they are proposing in advance of the Lords stages? I cannot make any promises or say anything beyond that, but I will meet them to further discuss the sentiments that sit behind their amendments.

Let me turn to my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy (Robin Millar), who made his points powerfully and eloquently, as he always does. As a Government of the whole United Kingdom, we have a duty of care to all citizens in the UK, which is why I welcome the clauses already in this legislation that will bring benefit to residents across the UK.

[Bob Seely (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

Will the Minister take my intervention?

[Edward Argar]

If my hon. Friend can do it in 10 seconds.

[Bob Seely]

Please, Minister, do not forget the unavoidably small hospitals, of which there are 12 in isolated communities.

[Edward Argar]

My hon. Friend has made his point. He has made it to me before. I will not forget either him or unavoidably small hospitals, particularly in the Isle of Wight.

On the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy, we do recognise the importance of making sure that health and care data can be shared safely and effectively across the UK to support individual care and improve outcomes for people across the UK.

[Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con)]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Edward Argar]

I am afraid that I cannot give way, because I literally have two minutes. Forgive me, but if my hon. Friend catches me afterwards, I will happily speak to him.

We are already committed to working with officials across the devolved Administrations, noting the devolved nature of health and care policy, but my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy is right and makes a very powerful case for data interoperability and clear data standards. I am happy to speak with him further on this issue if he feels that that would be helpful.

I ask the hon. Member for Bootle (Peter Dowd) to forgive me for yesterday. I heard what he said about self-care and I will continue to look carefully at that. I did not ignore him.

I fear that, in the time that we have, there is little more that I can say.

[Peter Aldous]

Will my hon. Friend give way on that point?

[Edward Argar]

Okay, my hon. Friend has 10 seconds.

[Peter Aldous]

The No. 1 issue in my inbox is access to NHS dentistry. New clause 18 provides a framework for addressing that. May I urge the Minister and the Government to consider accepting it?

[Edward Argar]

While we cannot accept that new clause as drafted today, I or the Minister for Dentistry will meet my hon. Friend, if that is helpful, to discuss in more detail the concerns sitting behind his intervention.

Question put and agreed to.

New clause 62 accordingly read a Second time, and added to the Bill.

Oral Answers to Questions

Edward Argar Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd November 2021 Commons Chamber

[Siobhain McDonagh (Mitcham and Morden) (Lab)]

When the chief inspector of hospitals placed St George’s in Tooting into special measures, he warned that the

“emergency department was not large enough for the number of patients that passed through it and privacy and dignity were compromised.”

Given the report by the British Red Cross in this morning’s edition of The Times highlighting the causal link between A&E attendance and deprivation, does the Minister understand the further huge impact that moving acute services from St Helier to wealthy, healthy Belmont will have on A&E attendances at St George’s?

[The Minister for Health (Edward Argar)]

Forgive me, but I fear the hon. Lady may not have moved her tabled question.

[Siobhain McDonagh]

I was just so keen to ask my question!

[Edward Argar]

I can answer the hon. Lady’s supplementary question, but would it be in order for me to answer her tabled question and then the supplementary?

[Mr Speaker]

Yes.

[Siobhain McDonagh]

6. What recent assessment he has made of the impact of the proposed downgrade of services at St Helier hospital on the delivery of acute services at St George's hospital.

[Edward Argar]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady. To answer the tabled question, no recent assessment has been made of the changes associated with the Epsom and St Helier reconfiguration, including proposed changes to some services outside the new Sutton site. The hon. Lady will know that these proposals have been through consultation, judicial review and the independent reconfiguration panel, which all supported the plans as being in the local population’s interest. The Secretary of State agreed with their advice.

Turning to the hon. Lady’s supplementary question, I am grateful to her and I know how strongly she feels about the issue, but I take her back to the point I have just made, which is that these proposals have all been through extensive consultation and extensive legal process and been looked at by the independent reconfiguration panel. Those processes all concluded that what is proposed is in the best health interest of the population.

--- Later in debate ---

[Philip Dunne (Ludlow) (Con)]

T6. The capital transformation of acute hospitals in Shrewsbury and Telford has been eight years in the making. Will the Secretary of State confirm what is now needed to start delivering the £312 million of capital committed by the Conservative Government to improve Shropshire’s healthcare facilities? Will he also confirm that it does not make sense to head down the rabbit hole of a new hospital and start this whole process all over again?

[The Minister for Health (Edward Argar)]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend, who has taken a long-term and consistent interest in the matter. The strategic outline case for transforming the Royal Shrewsbury Hospital and Princess Royal Hospital Telford was received at the end of October 2021. It has been reviewed by the NHS and detailed feedback has been given; I look forward to it coming forward to me early next year. We remain committed to delivering the investment and improvement that Shropshire’s hospitals need and that he and his colleagues have helped to secure.

[Sarah Green (Chesham and Amersham) (LD)]

Women across the country have lost jobs and life savings as a result of chronic pain and disability caused by complications after the use of medical mesh. Many, including one of my constituents, have had to pay for corrective surgery overseas. The Government have so far refused to set up agencies to provide financial redress, as was recommended in the Cumberlege report. Will the Secretary of State revisit the Cumberlege report, and in particular the need for financial redress?

--- Later in debate ---

[Daisy Cooper (St Albans) (LD)]

Ambulance response times are at their highest since records began. A month ago, on 22 October, I tabled a parliamentary question asking the Secretary of State how many ambulance trusts had moved into level 4—the level at which potential failures creep into the service. I am still awaiting an answer. Will the Minister answer that question today, please?

[Edward Argar]

If the hon. Lady supplies the number of the question, I will ensure that it is dealt with today. As for her broader point, yes, ambulance services across the country are under significant pressure this winter, which is one of the reasons why we have already invested an additional £55 million in helping them to cope with that pressure.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Chairman of the Health and Social Care Committee, Jeremy Hunt.

--- Later in debate ---

[Daniel Kawczynski (Shrewsbury and Atcham) (Con)]

The Minister has heard from my right hon. Friend and neighbour the Member for Ludlow (Philip Dunne) how essential it is that the £320 million we have secured for the Future Fit programme be released, so that construction can start. We are beginning to see a definite negative impact on A&E services because of the seven or eight years of delays. Please will the Minister do everything possible to ensure that the money is finally released and construction can start?

[Edward Argar]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, and likewise to my right hon. Friend the Member for Ludlow (Philip Dunne), who has campaigned vigorously this issue. We now have the outline business case from the trust, and we are reviewing it at pace to ensure that we can deliver the investment in both of Shropshire’s hospitals that they need to continue to serve my hon. Friend’s and colleagues’ constituents.

[Jeff Smith (Manchester, Withington) (Lab)]

My 90-year-old constituent, Jimmy, fell in his garden recently and broke his hip. When his family rang 999, they were told that it would be up to 14 hours before an ambulance could attend. The family got the fire brigade out after two and a half hours to sort him out. When the Government going to get a grip on the crisis in our ambulance services?

[Edward Argar]

The hon. Gentleman might have done this already, but if he wishes to, I would be grateful if he wrote to me about that case, not only to see whether there is anything I can do, but because it is always interesting and useful to hear from individual Members about specific incidents. To his broader point, as I set out to the hon. Member for St Albans (Daisy Cooper), we have invested £55 million this year ahead of the winter to support our ambulance services, but it is entirely true to say that they are under considerable pressure this winter across the country.

Health and Care Bill

Edward Argar Excerpts

Report stage
Monday 22nd November 2021 Commons Chamber

[John Stevenson (Carlisle) (Con)]

I rise to support the amendments in my name: 110, 111, 112 and 113. I draw the attention of the House to the fact that I have a significant number of food and drink manufacturers in my constituency, and that I chair the all-party parliamentary group for food and drink manufacturing. I also support the amendments tabled by my hon. Friends the Members for North East Bedfordshire (Richard Fuller) and for Buckingham (Greg Smith), and fully support and endorse their comments.

In reality, I and many others would have preferred clause 125 and the whole of schedule 16 to have been removed from the Bill. I and I think many others are not convinced that that is really the way forward or that it will achieve very much. That view is shared by many of my colleagues, but also by many in the advertising industry and the food and drink sector. That is not because they are against the Government’s attempts to respond to the challenge of obesity, which is and should be a concern for all of us, but because their impact is likely to be so insignificant that it is disproportionate to what is proposed. We should also remember that the industry has already done a huge amount. It is incredibly innovative—reformulation, reductions in salt and sugar—and the reductions we have already seen are very significant. The industry continues to make changes and I believe it will continue to do so in the future. We should also remember that there is something called personal responsibility.

There is an opportunity, however, for compromise and improvements to schedule 16—hence the various amendments that have been tabled. I very much hope that the Government will be willing to compromise in their approach and see the benefits of the amendments that stand in my hon. Friends’ names and mine. I do not intend to detain the House for long, because my amendments are primarily technical rather than anything greater.

I tabled amendments 111, 112 and 113 because I believe that we want a food and drink manufacturing sector that is competitive and is based in the UK as much as possible. As presently drafted, the Bill exempts certain businesses, but the criteria are based on UK employee numbers. Large multinational companies could therefore be exempt if the UK element of their business has under 250 employees; conversely, a UK business with 250-plus employees would not be exempt. That has the potential to be unfair in many respects to UK businesses from a competition perspective, and could lead them to divert manufacturing abroad. A simple solution would be to take account of turnover as well as staff numbers. I have suggested using the definition in section 465 of the Companies Act 2006, which I believe would deal with the situation.

Under the Bill, paid-for branded adverts for products that are high in fat, salt or sugar would be prevented on retailer-owned spaces, but retailers would still be able to advertise equivalent HFSS own-brand products. That could distort competition directly between retailers’ and manufacturers’ products. Amendment 110 would ensure a level playing field, which in my view would be much fairer.

I hope that the Government will be receptive to my amendments—if not now, via changes introduced in the other place. In anticipation of such a compromise, I do not intend to put them to the vote.

[The Minister for Health (Edward Argar)]

I am grateful for this evening’s debate. More than once during the passage of the Bill, I have put on the record the Government’s commitment to improving and protecting the public’s health and have paid tribute to the hard work and dedication of our NHS and public health professionals in rising to the greatest infectious disease challenge of modern times. I would again like to put on the record those important points, with which I know Opposition Front Benchers agree.

Our commitment to public health is clear in the Bill, in the proposals set out in the Government’s recently published plan for health and care, “Build Back Better”, and in our wider programme of public health reform. A focus on the prevention of avoidable diseases is a central principle in delivering a sustainable NHS and in levelling up health outcomes across the country.

Childhood obesity is one of the biggest health challenges that this nation faces. The latest data from the national childhood measurement programme revealed that approximately 40% of children leaving primary school in England were overweight or living with obesity.

[Catherine West]

The Minister is being generous in allowing interventions. Is the Bill silent on the challenge around prescriptions for exercise? In an earlier intervention, I mentioned the impact of school swimming. Unfortunately, we are going backwards: fewer 11-year-olds can swim 25 metres—that is just an example. On childhood obesity, we need to address both: not just diet, but exercise.

--- Later in debate ---

[Edward Argar]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady, with whom I worked in London local government many moons ago on issues not dissimilar to those that we are debating. The Bill focuses on diet and the obesity that it causes, but she is right to highlight that exercise and a healthy lifestyle also play a key role in tackling obesity. We do not believe that the Bill is the right place to put that role into legislation, but I join in the sentiment underpinning what the hon. Lady says. Schools, local authorities and health bodies need to consider the issue in the round.

Nearly two thirds of adults—64%—are also overweight or living with obesity. I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire (Richard Fuller) for gently tempting me to respond to his points about the nanny state, but I would argue that it is not being a nanny state to look out for the health of our citizens. Yes, it is about giving advice and giving people the information to make informed judgments, but it is also about putting in place a proportionate framework in legislation.

As with the speech of my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman), I did not agree with everything that the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire (Dr Whitford) said, particularly her concluding comments, but I listened carefully to her comments about seatbelts. She said that she, as a clinician, saw the impact that legislation on that public health and public safety measure had on reducing injuries.

[John Stevenson]

Does the Minister agree that the industry itself is doing an awful lot now to support the Government’s agenda? Does he also acknowledge that personal responsibility is very important?

[Edward Argar]

I wondered what I was about to have bowled at me there, but my hon. Friend is absolutely right. I entirely agree that a huge amount of progress has been made; we believe that we need to go further with our proposals, but he is right to highlight that progress. He is also right to highlight the relevance of the central role of personal responsibility and the decisions that we and our families all take.

To meet the ambition of halving childhood obesity by 2030, it is imperative that we reduce children’s exposure to less healthy food and drink product advertising on TV and online. We want to ensure that the media our children engage with the most promote a healthy diet. The Bill therefore contains provisions to restrict the advertising of less healthy food and drink products on TV, in on-demand programme services and online.

[Richard Fuller]

The Minister has just mentioned seatbelts, and earlier he talked about alcohol and cigarette smoking, but this is about porridge and muesli. There is a sense that there is no end to what the Department of Health and Social Care feels is its responsibility to legislate on for what people should be able to do for themselves and their family. My point is that this is overreach by the state, as well as perhaps being the incorrect process for achieving the Government’s aims.

[Edward Argar]

I know my hon. Friend well and entirely understand the perspective that he brings, but I would argue as a counterpoint that the Bill strikes a proportionate balance, in the same vein as with seatbelts and other issues. Alongside personal choice and giving people the information to make choices, I believe that it is a proportionate and balanced approach—not the thin end of the wedge, as he might suggest, although perhaps I am characterising his words unfairly.

[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Edward Argar]

May I make a little more progress? I have more to say on obesity, so my right hon. Friend should not worry.

We held two consultations, the first in 2019 and the second in 2020, which have informed our policy on introducing further restrictions to the advertising of less healthy food and drink products. I welcome the devolved Administrations’ engagement and support for the policy, which is being brought forward UK-wide. The UK Government have engaged with them extensively on the matter since early 2021; I put on the record my gratitude for the spirit in which they have approached it.

[Dr Lewis]

I happen to agree that there is a question of proportionality on the alleged nanny state issues, but does my hon. Friend agree that where an issue is contentious—such as the fluoridation of water supplies, which has been contentious over many years in this House—it should be properly debated before the state takes control of it, not just tucked away at the end of a very long Bill? That causes me concern.

[Edward Argar]

I take my right hon. Friend’s point, but I would argue that we are placing the matter before the House in a Bill that has been debated and has gone through its stages, including one of the longest Committee stages of a Bill in my time in this House. There is, or was, the opportunity for Members to table amendments on Report on the aspect that he mentions, and I suspect that it will be extensively debated in the other place as well. I take his point, but I would argue that we have provided sufficient time and have brought the issue to the House in that way.

[Dr Lewis]

Would the Minister be as surprised as I was to know that quite a lot of Members of this House are completely unaware that that provision has been added at the end of the Bill?

[Edward Argar]

All I would say—without in any way implying any criticism of right hon. or hon. Members—is that soon after I entered the House I was a member of the Procedure Committee for a year, and one of the first pieces of advice I was given was to read the legislation and go through it in its entirety. I recognise that this is a long and complex piece of legislation, but I would make that point.

Telecommunications and internet services are reserved matters. The UK Government are clear about the fact that the primary purpose of provisions on the advertising of less-healthy food and drink for TV and internet services is to regulate content on reserved media, and on that basis the policy is reserved. The purpose is not incidental. Therefore, the provisions do not fall within the competence of the devolved legislatures or engage the legislative consent process. While the Scottish and Welsh Governments have agreed with our policy ambitions, they disagree with our legal assessment, and thus far we have had to agree to disagree on this matter, but we have had extensive engagement, and I suspect that we will continue to do so. I see that the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire is in her place, and while she is present I would like to thank both Governments for their engagement and offer my assurances that it will continue as we implement the policy for the benefit of citizens across the UK.

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[Sir John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings) (Con)]

It was my hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire who inspired my intervention. I just want the Government to make it clear that they are not contributing to a strange paradox which seems to prevail in modern society, that of being simultaneously more puritanical and more prurient. We are prurient in that we let the tech giants corrupt our children in all kinds of ways, and puritanical in that we are censorious about the jokes people tell, the language they use, and how much ice cream—or indeed Christmas cake—they eat.

[Edward Argar]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend. It has been a while since he intervened while I was at the Dispatch Box, so this has been a pleasure. I have never seen him as in any way a puritan; I suspect that he is rather more a cavalier in his approach to life.

My hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire has also tabled amendments to schedule 16 which would insert in the Bill an exemption from the advertising restrictions for brand advertising. I am grateful to him, but I can reassure him that the Bill already delivers that exemption, and I therefore believe that his amendments are not necessary to achieve the effect that he seeks. We made that clear in the consultation response published in June this year, and in speeches made in Committee.

My hon. Friend has also tabled new clause 14. As I am sure he and other Members are aware, the Government consulted on different approaches for restricting online advertising in 2019, and considered alternatives submitted through the consultation process. However, it was felt that the alternatives, including the proposal from the Committee of Advertising Practice to use a self-regulatory mechanism based on targeting, were sufficiently similar to the policy options previously consulted on. These were not sufficient to meet the objective of the policy, namely to protect children from advertisements for less-healthy food and drink.

[Alun Cairns]

Does the Minister accept that there is a significant inconsistency between the approach to television broadcasters and the approach to those who use social media and online provision, and that a consistent approach would help? Does he also accept that a considerable array of views has been expressed by those seeking to help him to develop the Bill in a positive way, and will he maintain an open mind as it passes through the other place to establish whether it can be refined to achieve some of these objectives?

[Edward Argar]

I hope I can reassure my right hon. Friend, and other Members, that I always seek to maintain an open mind, and always seek to reflect carefully on the contributions made by Members. I will turn shortly to the challenges posed by television, which is essentially a linear broadcasting medium, in comparison with those posed by online broadcasting. I am conscious that I must conclude my speech before 7 pm.

There is evidence to suggest that the targeting of online adverts does not account for the use of shared devices and profiles between parents and children, the communal viewing of content or false reporting of children’s ages. This, combined with concerns about the accuracy of interest-based targeting and other behavioural data as a way of guessing a user’s age and a lack of transparency and reporting data online, shows why the Government believe that we need to introduce strong advertising restrictions online. Any alternative proposals would therefore need to meet a high bar in terms of protecting children online, and we consider alternatives that rely on a targeting approach to be—currently—potentially insufficient to meet the policy objectives.

Amendments 106 to 109 are relevant to the point that my right hon. Friend has just made. I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Buckingham (Greg Smith) for raising these matters. His amendments mean that liability for online advertisements found to be in breach of the restrictions included in the Bill would shift to become the responsibility of the platforms rather than the advertisers, which some may see as providing parity with the enforcement mechanisms for broadcast television.

During the 2020 consultation, we considered whether other actors in the online advertising sphere should have responsibility for breaches, alongside those of advertisers. However, we concluded that this was not the right place to consider that broader issue.

The online advertising ecosystem is complex and dynamic. The scale and speed of advertising online, as well as the personalised nature of advertising and the lack of transparency in this system, makes it difficult for platforms to have control over what is placed on them. The approach that we are taking in the Bill best aligns with the current enforcement frameworks across TV, online and on-demand programme services advertising, and is familiar to industry. It will ensure that there is limited confusion for broadcasters, platforms or advertisers, as the liable parties for less-healthy food and drink product advertising breaches will be the same as those for any other advertising breaches. The Government intend to consider this issue as part of the wider online advertising programme, on which the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport will consult in the coming months.

[Greg Smith]

I am grateful to the Minister for that commitment to consider the points in my amendments, and with that commitment in place, I will not seek to push them to vote. However, may I ask him, as he makes these considerations along with colleagues in the DCMS, to ensure that broadcasters are fully consulted so that they can point out the loopholes that any online provisions could throw up?

[Edward Argar]

I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s confirmation that he does not intend to press his amendments to a Division, and I will ensure that his point will be heard not only in the Department of Health and Social Care but in DCMS as well.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle (John Stevenson) for his amendments 111 to 113 and for bringing this debate before the House. I would like to reassure him that small and medium-sized enterprises—businesses with 249 employees or fewer—that pay to advertise less healthy food and drink products that they manufacture and/or sell will be exempt from the less healthy food and drink restrictions and can continue to advertise. The definition of SMEs will be provided in secondary legislation and not on the face of the Bill, which will enable Ministers to act promptly in future years if new or emerging evidence suggests that amendments are needed. We will conduct a short consultation as soon as possible on the SME definition to be included in the draft regulations. The Government want to ensure consistency with other definitions for size of business that have been used for other obesity policies, such as the out-of-home calorie labelling policy, to create a level playing field. Our preferred definition, therefore, is a standard definition used by Government across other policies.

[Richard Fuller]

On the point about an industry-led alternative, on which the Minister has kindly made some comments today, I think that this discussion will continue, particularly when the Bill is considered in the other place, so would he be prepared to meet me so that I can continue to make representations about certain improvements that could be made?

[Edward Argar]

I am certainly happy to commit that either I, as the Bill Minister, or the relevant policy Minister will meet my hon. Friend to discuss his views in this space.

Amendment 110 would ensure that advertisements placed on distributor or retailer websites are out of scope of the less healthy food and drink advertising restrictions. Again, I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle for tabling the amendment, and I would seek to reassure him that the Government’s intention is to ensure that restrictions are proportionate to the scale of the problem. It is not our intention to prohibit the sale of less healthy food and drink products on the internet. Our aim is to reduce children’s exposure to advertisements of less healthy food and drink products, which is why the restrictions are being applied only to paid-for advertising online—namely, where an advertiser pays by monetary or other reciprocal means for the placement of adverts online.

We appreciate that there will be consumers who seek less healthy food and drink products, which is why this restriction applies only to paid-for advertising, and companies will be able to continue to use owned media in the same way as they do now. The restrictions will not apply to spaces online where full editorial control and ownership apply, such as a brand’s own blog, website or social media page. This means that retailers are able to continue promoting their own products on their own website, as this would not be covered by the restrictions.

I shall turn briefly to Government amendments 32, 35 and 37, tabled in the name of the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care. Amendments 32 and 35 will amend the definition of an advertisement placed on television and on-demand programme services to ensure that sponsorship credits around programmes and sponsorship announcements respectively are included for the purpose of this Bill. Members will be aware that sponsorship announcements and sponsorship credits are required so that viewers know which product is sponsoring any particular programme. Although these are not routinely considered to be advertisements in other contexts, the Government’s view is that they could reasonably be considered to be advertising less healthy food and drink products for the purposes of the Bill’s restrictions.

Amendments 32 and 35 will therefore clarify the status of those announcements, in effect to prohibit identifiable less healthy food and drink products from sponsoring programmes before the watershed, in line with the Government’s original policy aims. Amendment 37, meanwhile, will make it clear that UK businesses producing online advertisements intended to be accessed principally by audiences outside the UK fall in scope of the exemption and will not be in breach of the less healthy food and drink advertising restrictions set out in the Bill. This amendment is needed to ensure that the legislation aligns with the Government’s policy intention to exempt advertisements made to be viewed outside the UK. We are confident that the likely frontline regulator already has a clear remit and tests in place that should allow it to apply this exemption effectively.

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[Christian Wakeford]

I reiterate the comment I made earlier that the best way to treat alcohol addiction and dependency is to treat it like a mental health illness, because that is what it is. The best way to do that is to remove the stigma and put more money into mental health, but in trying to overcome the stigma, we need to ensure that there is parity between mental and physical health. If we treat the mental health issue, we treat the alcohol issue. We cannot do one without the other. Will the Minister commit today to going some way towards doing that and to putting more money into mental health to deal with this?

[Edward Argar]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. He will know that this Government have continued not only to highlight and promote parity of esteem between mental and physical health but to increase the funding available to mental health, reflecting that reality on the ground. He is right to highlight that issue.

We have announced a comprehensive set of reforms to alcohol duty in this year’s Budget which, taken with the steps we have put in place on a public health basis, have put in place a strong regime to tackle the consequences of alcohol misuse. We do not feel that this Bill is the place to legislate further on this issue but, as I have said, I am none the less grateful to the hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton for his amendments and for this opportunity to debate them.

On amendments 11, 12 and 13, this Bill would introduce a 9 pm TV watershed for less healthy food and drink products and a restriction on paid-for advertising of less healthy food and drink online. Those amendments, tabled by the hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton, would expand the definition of a less healthy product to include alcohol. This would have the effect of making alcohol advertising liable to the watershed proposed for TV programme services and the online restriction on paid-for advertising.

I reassure the hon. Gentleman, through Opposition Members, that the Government have existing measures in place to protect children and young people from alcohol advertising through the alcohol advertising code. Material in the broadcast code and the non-broadcast code relating to the advertising and marketing of alcohol products is already robust, recognising the social imperative of ensuring that alcohol advertising is responsible and, in particular, that children and young people are suitably protected. If new evidence emerges that clearly highlights major problems with the existing codes, the Advertising Standards Authority has a duty to revisit the codes and take appropriate action. Furthermore, the Government introduced additional restrictions last year on alcohol advertising on on-demand programme services, through amendments to the Communications Act 2003.

Clause 129 and schedule 16 are aimed at reducing the exposure of children to less healthy food and drink advertising and the impact of such advertising on child obesity. Less healthy food and drink products—

[Jonathan Edwards]

Will the Minister give way?

[Edward Argar]

I fear that I have only a few minutes left, and I have already taken a number of interventions on this. I want to conclude by covering the tobacco amendments as well, which I know that some colleagues are keen to see a response to. I apologise to the hon. Gentleman.

Less healthy food and drink products are not age restricted at the point of purchase, unlike alcohol. Finally, the 2019 and 2020 consultations on advertising restrictions for less healthy food and drink did not consult on alcohol within the restrictions, either online or on TV, so we cannot be sure of the impact these amendments would have on the industry more broadly.

Turning to tobacco in the time I have left, because I know the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Nottingham North (Alex Norris) , has taken a close interest in the issue, I thank the hon. Member for City of Durham (Mary Kelly Foy) and others, including my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East, who have tabled a number of amendments that seek to address the harm caused by smoking in this country. I reassure the hon. Member for City of Durham of the Government’s commitment to becoming smoke free by 2030.

We have successfully introduced many regulatory reforms over the past two decades, and the UK is a global leader in tobacco control. Our reforms include raising the age of sale from 16 to 18, the introduction of a tobacco display ban, standardised packaging and a ban on smoking in cars with children, which all place important barriers between young people and tobacco products. The Government are currently developing our new tobacco control plan, and I reassure the hon. Lady that that will reflect carefully on the APPG’s findings and report.

I am afraid I cannot be tempted to go further than the Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, my hon. Friend the Member for Erewash (Maggie Throup), did in the recent Westminster Hall debate on this question, but I can reassure the hon. Member for City of Durham that we remain committed to bringing forward the tobacco control plan.

[Geraint Davies]

rose—

[Edward Argar]

Forgive me; I only have a few minutes and I want to cover the amendments from the hon. Member for City of Durham. The hon. Member for Swansea West (Geraint Davies) did manage dexterously to shoehorn air quality more broadly within the scope of these debates, and what he said will have been heard.

New clause 2, which seeks to provide powers for the Secretary of State to impose a requirement for tobacco manufacturers

“to print health warnings on individual cigarettes and cigarette rolling papers”,

is intended, as I understand from the hon. Member for City of Durham, to further strengthen our current public health messaging and encourage smokers to quit. We strongly support measures to stop people smoking, to make smoking less attractive to young people and to educate smokers of its dangers, as we have done through graphic warnings on cigarette packs.

We would need to conduct further research and build a further robust evidence base in support of any such additional measures before bringing them forward. To date, no country has introduced such a measure, so there is currently limited evidence of its impact in supporting smokers to quit. If evidence showed that the requirement would not be effective, it would not be an appropriate power to have in place.

New clause 3, also tabled by the hon. Lady, seeks to provide a power for the Secretary of State to introduce a requirement for manufacturers to insert leaflets containing health information and information about smoking cessation services into cigarette packaging. As I set out in Committee, we believe this power is unnecessary, since the Department could legislate to do that already under the Children and Families Act 2014; inserts could be required for public health messaging through amendments to the Standardised Packaging of Tobacco Products Regulations 2015. We already have in place strong graphic images and warnings of the health harms of smoking on the outside of cigarette packs. As part of the Tobacco and Related Products Regulations 2016, the address for the NHS website, which provides advice for people seeking to quit smoking, is also required on packaging.

The current SPoT regulations prohibit the use of inserts, as there was limited evidence that placing public health messaging inserts inside cigarette packages was more effective than messaging on the outside of packs. Further research would need to be undertaken to help to establish the public health benefit if we were to go further.

Turning briefly to new clause 4, I am grateful again to the hon. Lady for tabling this clause. The Government are clear that they only support the use of e-cigarettes as a tool for smokers who are trying to quit, and we strongly discourage non-smokers and young people from using them. We are committed to ensuring that our regulatory framework continues to protect young people and non-smokers from using e-cigarettes.

Current regulations include requirements on the packaging and labelling of e-cigarettes, along with restrictions on their marketing and the prohibiting of advertising on mainstream media such as TV and radio. While we strongly support measures to protect young people further from cigarettes, we believe the current regime remains appropriate and has the powers in place within it to make changes where required, although I suspect my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East may yet be proved right when he suggests that the other place may return to this at some point.

I have outlined the many steps this Government are taking to address some of the major lifestyle challenges to our health. The Bill represents another step in the direction of preventive healthcare and building a healthier society, an aim I know we all share. I hope the House will support the amendments we have tabled at this stage to strengthen those measures.

I also want to update the House at this point, in the context of the importance of an integrated approach and how it can improve public health measures, on two steps the Secretary of State has taken today that will put NHS staff and technology at the heart of our long-term planning and allow us to take forward the integrated approach that has proved so vital during this pandemic and is so vital to public health.

[Geraint Davies]

Will the Minister give way?

[Edward Argar]

I am afraid I will not. I suspect that point will be pertinent to the debate on the first group of amendments tomorrow.

First, we intend to merge Health Education England with NHS England and NHS Improvement, putting education and training of our health workforce at the forefront of the NHS. By bringing this vital function inside the NHS, we can plan more effectively for the long term and have clear accountability for delivery.

Secondly, we also intend to take forward the recommendations of the Wade-Gery report, which included merging NHSX and NHS Digital with NHS England and NHS Improvement, building on the huge progress made on digital transformation during the pandemic and bringing together the digital leadership of the NHS in one place. I take this opportunity to pay tribute to all our colleagues at Health Education England, NHS Digital and NHSX for their exceptional work. These changes build on that contribution and allow us to drive forward further integration and changes that will put the NHS on a firmer footing.

I hope I have reassured hon. Members of the Government’s commitment to improving public health. I urge those who have tabled amendments to consider not pressing them to a Division.

[Mary Kelly Foy]

I have listened carefully to the debate, and I beg to ask leave to withdraw the clause.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

New Clause 4

Packaging and labelling of nicotine products

“The Secretary of State may by regulations make provision about the retail packaging and labelling of electronic cigarettes and other novel nicotine products including requirements for health warnings and prohibition of branding elements attractive to children.”—(Mary Kelly Foy.)

This new clause would give powers to the Secretary of State to prohibit branding on e-cigarette packaging which is appealing to children.

Brought up, and read the First time.

Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.

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[Edward Argar]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

New clause 33—Support provided by the NHS to victims of domestic abuse—

“(1) Each Integrated Care Board must—

(a) assess, or make arrangements for the assessment of, the need for support for victims of domestic abuse using their services;

(b) prepare and publish a strategy for the provision of such support in its area;

(c) monitor and evaluate the effectiveness of the strategy;

(d) designate a domestic abuse and sexual violence lead; and

(e) publish an annual report on how it has discharged its duties relating to the provision of services to victims of domestic violence under the Care Act 2014.

(2) An Integrated Care Board that publishes a strategy under this section must, in carrying out its functions, give effect to the strategy.

(3) Before publishing a strategy under this section, an Integrated Care Board must consult—

(a) any local authority for an area within the relevant Integrated Care Board’s area;

(b) the domestic abuse local partnership board appointed by the local authority for an area within the relevant clinical commissioning group’s area under section 58 of the Domestic Abuse Act 2021; and

(c) such other persons as the relevant local authority considers appropriate.

(4) For the purposes of subsection (4), ‘local authority’ means—

(a) a county council or district council in England; or

(b) a London borough council.

(5) An Integrated Care Board that publishes a strategy under this section—

(a) must keep the strategy under review;

(b) may alter or replace the strategy; and

(c) must publish any altered or replacement strategy.

(6) The Secretary of State may by regulations make provision about the preparation and publication of strategies under this section.

(7) The power to make regulations under subsection (7) may, in particular, be exercised to make provision about—

(a) the procedure to be followed by an Integrated Care Board in preparing a strategy;

(b) matters to which an Integrated Care Board must have regard in preparing a strategy;

(c) how an Integrated Care Board must publish a strategy;

(d) the date by which an Integrated Care Board must first publish a strategy; and

(e) the frequency with which an Integrated Care Board must review its strategy or any effect of the strategy on the provision of other provision in its area.

(8) Before making regulations under this section, the Secretary of State must consult—

(a) all Integrated Care Boards; and

(b) such other persons as the Secretary of State considers appropriate.”

This new clause would require Integrated Care Boards to publish a strategy for the provision of support for victims of domestic abuse using their services and designate a domestic abuse and sexual violence lead.

New clause 55—Guidance for babies, children and young people—

“(1) The Secretary of State must publish guidance on how integrated care systems should meet the needs of babies, children and young people aged 0-25.

(2) Integrated care systems must act in accordance with the guidance in subsection (1).”

This new clause would require the Secretary of State to publish guidance on how integrated care systems should meet the needs of babies, children and young people aged 0-25 and would require integrated care systems to act in accordance with the guidance.

New clause 57—NHS England’s duty as to reducing inequalities—

“Section 13G of the National Health Service Act (duty as to reducing inequalities), is amended by the addition of the following subsections—

‘(2) NHS England must publish guidance about the collection, analysis, reporting and publication of performance data by relevant NHS bodies with respect to factors or indicators relevant to health inequalities.

(3) Relevant NHS bodies must have regard to guidance published by NHS England under this section.

(4) In this section “relevant NHS bodies” means—

(a) NHS England,

(b) integrated care boards,

(c) integrated care partnerships established under section 116ZA of the Local Government and Public Involvement in Health Act 2007,

(d) NHS trusts established under section 25, and

(e) NHS foundation trusts.’”

Amendment 47, in clause 6,  page 4, line 11, at end insert—

“(5) In paragraph 1(a) ‘relevant public body’ means a public authority listed under the title ‘Health, social care and social security’ in Part 1 of Schedule 19 to the Equality Act 2010 or an NHS Trust.”

This amendment provides that NHS England resources for supporting or assisting organisations that are providing or planning to provide health services may only be directed to public sector bodies.

Amendment 58, in clause 12, page 8, line 6, at end insert—

“(2) An integrated care board may not—

(a) delegate that function; and

(b) exercise that function to enter into an integrated care provider contract with any body other than a statutory NHS body.

(3) In paragraph (2)(b) an ‘integrated care provider contract’ has the same meaning as in Schedule 3A of the National Health Service (General Medical Services Contracts) Regulations 2015.”

This amendment is designed to ensure that an organisation carrying out the functions of an ICB on its behalf is a statutory NHS body.

Amendment 59, page 12, line 29 at end insert—

“(3A) Nothing in——

(a) the rules referred to in subsection (1),

(b) this Act, or

(c) any regulations made under this Act

(none) shall entitle any provider of health services to withhold provision of those services from any individual on the basis of the integrated care board to which that individual has been allocated.”

This amendment is to ensure that any providers of health services cannot withhold provision of those services from any individual because of the integrated care board that they have been allocated to.

Amendment 66, in clause 15, page 13, line 44, at end insert—

“(j) palliative care services.”

This amendment adds a requirement for the commissioning of palliative and end of life care services.

Amendment 21, page 14, line 43, at end insert—

“3AA Duty of integrated care boards to commission approved treatments

‘(1) This section applies where—

(a) a treatment has been approved by the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence, and

(b) an integrated care board has not arranged for the provision of that treatment under section 3 or 3A of this Act, and

(c) a clinician has recommended that treatment for a person for whom that integrated care board has responsibility.

(2) The integrated care board referred to in subsection (1) must arrange for the provision of that treatment to the person for whom it has responsibility.

(3) In subsection (1) “clinician” means a medical professional employed by or acting on behalf of an NHS Trust, NHS Foundation Trust or primary care service from whom the integrated care board has arranged for the provision of services.’”

This amendment would require an integrated care board to arrange for the provision of a NICE-approved treatment to any patient whose NHS clinician has recommended it, even if that treatment is not otherwise available to patients in that ICB area.

Amendment 48, in clause 19,  page 16, line 6, leave out “promotes” and insert

“secures the rights set out in”.

This amendment requires ICBs to act to ensure that health services are provided in a way which secures the rights set out in the NHS Constitution.

Amendment 99, page 16, line 34, at end insert—

“(2) In fulfilling their duties under this section, integrated care boards must have particular regard to the need to reduce inequalities between migrant and non-migrant users of health services.”

Amendment 49, page 16, line 37, leave out “promote” and insert “enable”.

This amendment, together with Amendment 50 provides that ICBs enable the involvement of patients, their paid and unpaid carers, and their representatives in decisions relating to the prevention or diagnosis of illness, care or treatment, rather than promoting their involvement.

Amendment 50, page 16, line 37, after “their”, insert “paid and unpaid”.

This amendment, together with the Amendment 49, provides that ICBs enable the involvement of patients, their paid and unpaid carers, and their representatives in decisions relating to the prevention or diagnosis of illness, care or treatment.

Amendment 22, page 17, line 4, at end insert—

“14Z37A Obligation on integrated care boards to ensure appropriate uptake of all NICE approved products according to population need

‘(1) Each integrated care board must promote uptake of all NICE approved medicines and medical devices in accordance with the need of the population it serves.

(2) An integrated care board must, in each financial year, prepare a report on the uptake of all NICE approved medicines and medical devices, including the number of patients that have accessed each product.’”

This amendment would require ICBs to ensure that all NICE approvals are available and promoted to their population, and report on this uptake annually.

Amendment 19, page 17, line 14, at end insert—

“14Z39A Duty to review latest innovations with a view to local commissioning

(1) Integrated care boards must review all new—

(a) medicines,

(b) medical devices, and

(c) other health care solutions that may benefit the local population.

(2) Integrated care boards must—

(d) appoint a dedicated innovation officer to their board, and

(e) develop and maintain a system to keep up to date with medicines and devices innovation and review suitability for patient usage, including engagement with the relevant—

(i) academic health science network, and

(ii) local pharmaceutical committee.”

This amendment would mandate integrated care boards to monitor and assess innovation for the benefit of the local population.

Amendment 16, page 17, line 19, at end insert—

“(2) Each integrated care board must each year prepare, consult on and adopt a research strategy for patient benefit which—

(a) meets local need;

(b) meets national research undertakings.

(3) In developing a strategy under subsection (2), an integrated care board must engage with—

(a) the National Institute for Health Research,

(b) academic health science networks, and

(c) all other relevant regional and national health research organisations.”

This amendment would require ICBs to establish a research strategy and other connected measures.

Amendment 91, page 18, line 18, after first “the” insert “physical and mental”.

This amendment will require Integrated Care Boards to prioritise both the physical and mental health and well-being of the people of England and to work towards the prevention, diagnosis or treatment of both physical and mental illness replicating the parity of esteem duty as introduced in the Health and Social Care Act 2012.

Amendment 92, page 18, line 23, after first “of” insert “physical and mental”.

This amendment will require Integrated Care Boards to prioritise both the physical and mental health and well-being of the people of England and to work towards the prevention, diagnosis or treatment of both physical and mental illness replicating the parity of esteem duty as introduced in the Health and Social Care Act 2012.

Amendment 68, page 18, line 26, at end insert—

“(d) health inequalities.”

This amendment would modify the triple aim to explicitly require integrated care boards to take account of health inequalities when making decisions.

Amendment 17, page 18, line 38, at end insert—

“14Z43A Duty on integrated care boards to consider requests to engage in clinical trials, and patient participation

(1) An integrated care board must consider any request from the organiser of an authorised clinical trial for the ICB to engage in that trial.

(2) If such a request is accepted, the integrated care board must offer the ability to participate in the trial to any patient within their area who is eligible to take part.”

This amendment would require integrated care boards to consider any requests to engage in clinical trials and offer patients the opportunity to participate.

Amendment 20, page 18, line 38, at end insert—

“14Z43A Duty to update formularies to include all NICE-approved products

(1) Within 28 days of any medicine or device receiving market authorisation from NICE, an integrated care board must update its formulary to include that medicine or device.

(2) On receipt of notice of the market authorisation by NICE of any medicine or device, an integrated care board must immediately instruct providers of health and care services commissioned by the board to update their formularies in such a way that all NICE-approved medicines and devices are available to patients on the recommendation of a healthcare practitioner within 28 days of market authorisation.

(3) An integrated care board must report annually all medicines and devices that have been added and removed from their formulary over the previous year.”

This amendment would mandate integrated care boards and healthcare providers (e.g. hospital trusts) to update their formularies to include all NICE-approved medicines or devices within 28 days of market authorisation to ensure they are available for healthcare practitioners (e.g. physician or prescribing pharmacist) to make available for suitable patients.

Amendment 102, page 21, line 25, at end insert—

“(c) set out any steps that the integrated care board proposes to take to address the particular needs of victims of abuse (including domestic abuse and sexual abuse, whether of children or adults).”

This amendment requires the joint forward plan for an integrated care board and its partners to set out any steps it proposes to take to address the particular needs of victims of abuse (including domestic abuse and sexual abuse, whether of children or adults).

Amendment 51, page 22, line 23, leave out

“in a way that they consider to be significant.”

This amendment requires ICBs and partner NHS Trusts and NHS Foundation Trusts to consult on all revisions to their forward plans.

Amendment 52, page 23, line 42, at end add “on its website”.

This amendment is to require capital resource use plans to be made publicly available on the internet.

Amendment 53, page 24, line 22, leave out

“in a way that they consider to be significant”.

The purpose of this amendment is to require all revisions of capital resource use plans to be published.

Amendment 18, page 25, line 6, at end insert—

“(d) explain what research activity it undertook during the year, including

(i) research to meet local health issues, and

(ii) research to support national research projects.

‘(2A) The annual report prepared by the Secretary of State under section 247D of this Act must include a section which reproduces, and comments on, the sections of the annual reports of each integrated care board prepared under paragraph (1)(d).’”

This amendment would require integrated care boards to publish an account of their research activity, and require the report the Secretary of State must prepare and lay before Parliament under section 247D of the National Health Service Act 2006 to include a section which reproduces, and comments on, the research activity of all ICBs.

Amendment 23, page 25, line 14, at end insert—

“14Z56A Report on assessing and meeting parity of physical and mental health outcomes

(1) An integrated care board must annually set out in a report the steps it has taken to fulfil its obligations to deliver parity of esteem between physical and mental health to its local population.

‘(1) The report must set out—

(a) the number of patients presenting with mental health conditions,

(b) the number of patients presenting with physical health conditions,

(c) the number of mental health patients waiting for initial assessment,

(d) the number of physical health patients waiting for initial assessment,

(e) the number of mental health patients waiting for treatment,

(f) the number of physical health patients waiting for treatment,

(g) the number of mental health patients receiving treatment,

(h) the number of physical health patients receiving treatment,

(i) the number of patients readmitted to mental healthcare settings, and

(j) the number of patients readmitted to physical healthcare settings.

(2) The report must set out performance against nationally set standards in both physical and mental health.

(3) Each year the Secretary of State must lay before Parliament a consolidated report of all the reports made by integrated care boards under this section, and make a statement to each House of Parliament on the report.’”

This amendment would require an ICB to report on assessing and meeting parity of physical and mental health outcomes.

Amendment 15, in clause 20,  page 29, line 20, at end insert—

“(2A) The Secretary of State may by regulations make provision about representation of particular health, social care, and local interests, clinical fields, and types of health or care provision in the membership of integrated care partnerships.”

This amendment would enable the Secretary of State to make provision about the membership of integrated care partnerships.

Amendment 100, page 29, line 22, at end insert—

“(4) A member of the Integrated Care Partnership may not work for, be the representative of or hold financial interest in any private company delivering or seeking to deliver health and care services or services supporting the health and care sector or producing or seeking to produce health and care products, with the exception of general practitioners.”

This amendment seeks to ensure that Integrated Care Partnerships are made up wholly of representatives from public sector organisations and that private companies are not represented on them.

Amendment 1, page 29, line 45, at end insert—

“(c) fully integrate the promotion of everyday wellbeing, self-care for minor ailments and the management of long-term conditions into local health systems.”

This amendment would ensure that everyday wellbeing, self-care for minor ailment and management of long term conditions are integrated and promoted into local health systems.

Amendment 2, page 30, line 3, after “services” insert

“including services provided by pharmacists for minor ailments”.

This amendment would ensure that integrated care partnerships include in a strategy its views on how health-related services, including provision for self-treatable conditions, are integrated into health and social care services in that area.

Amendment 69, in clause 23,  page 35, line 32, at end insert—

“(5) NHS England must publish guidance on the means by which an integrated care board, NHS trust or NHS foundation trust which believes its capital resource limit or revenue resource limit risks compromising patient safety may object to the limit set.”

Amendment 114, in clause 25,  page 37, line 27, at end insert—

“(2A) The priorities set by the Secretary of State under subsection (2)(a) must include priorities relating to leadership, the integration of services and the quality and safety of services.”

The Secretary of State has the function of setting priorities for the Care Quality Commission in carrying out assessments in relation to integrated care systems. This amendment requires the Secretary of State to set priorities relating to certain matters.

Amendment 61, in clause 64, page 59, line 27, leave out from beginning to end of line 28.

This amendment is to ensure that a commissioner cannot also be a provider.

Amendment 62, in clause 69, page 63, line 30, leave out “may” and insert “must”.

This amendment makes it a requirement that regulations make provision in relation to the procurement by relevant authorities of (a) health care services for the purposes of the health service in England, and (b) other goods or services that are procured together with those health care services.

Amendment 63, page 63, line 36, leave out “may” and insert “must”.

This amendment makes it a requirement that regulations make provision in relation to (a) general objectives of procurement, and (b) procurement processes.

Amendment 64, page 63, line 39, leave out “may” and insert “must”.

This amendment along with Amendment 65 makes it a requirement that regulations make provision for the purposes of (a) ensuring transparency and fairness in relation to procurement, and (b) ensuring that compliance can be verified, or managing conflicts of interest.

Amendment 65, page 63, line 41, leave out “or” and insert “and”.

This amendment is to make it a requirement for regulations to make provision to ensure both transparency and fairness in relation to procurement.

Amendment 9, page 64, line 1, at end insert—

“(3A) The regulations must provide that—

(a) there is a presumption—

(i) in favour of contracts being awarded to NHS trusts and NHS foundation trusts, and

(ii) that integrated care provider contracts will not be awarded to a body other than to an NHS trust or an NHS foundation trust, except for under the provisions of paragraph (b);

(b) if an NHS trust or an NHS foundation trust does not consider that it is able, or does not wish, to provide certain services under a contract, it must publish its reasons;

(c) if paragraph (b) applies, the integrated care board must consult the public if it proposes to award any contract for those services to any body other than an NHS trust or NHS foundation trust;

(d) a consultation under paragraph (c) must—

(i) set out the responses of the integrated care provider to the reasons given by the NHS trust or NHS foundation trust under paragraph (b),

(ii) specify the proposed parties to and the full terms and conditions of the proposed contract, and

(iii) specify that the terms and conditions for staff under the proposed contract must be at least equivalent to NHS terms and conditions.”

This amendment would make NHS trusts and foundation trusts the default providers of NHS services.

Amendment 72, page 64, line 1, at end insert—

“(3A) The regulations must make provision in relation to the procurement of the services referred to in paragraph (1)(a) (other than primary medical services, primary dental services and primary ophthalmology services) that before any contract for a service with an annual value in excess of £5m may be awarded to an organisation that is not an NHS trust or NHS foundation trust—

(a) the business case for the award of the contract must be published;

(b) any responses to the proposal in the business case must be considered and published;

(c) the process for awarding the contract must be open and transparent and non-discriminatory at every stage, including (but not limited to)—

(i) procurement strategy and plan,

(ii) invitation to tender,

(iii) responses to invitations,

(iv) evaluation of tenders,

(v) decision to award, and

(vi) contract awarded;

(d) the process for awarding the contract must demonstrate due regard to the principles established in the Public Contracts Regulations 2015 (S.I.2015/102) or any regulations which may supersede them;

(e) in any case where it is claimed that an emergency justifies an award without the process being used then the responsible body must within 14 days publish the business case for the award of the contract and the record of the decision.”

Amendment 101, in schedule 2,  page 125, line 26, at end insert—

“(3) Members of an Integrated Care Board may not work for, be the representative of or hold financial interest in any private company delivering or seeking to deliver health and care services or services supporting the health and care sector or producing or seeking to produce health and care products, with the exception of general practitioners.”

This amendment seeks to ensure that ICBs are made up wholly of representatives from public sector organisations and that private companies, their employees and representatives, and those with financial interests in them, are not represented on ICBs.

Government amendments 25 to 28.

Amendment 76, page 126, line 26, at end insert—

“(d) at least one member nominated by the mental health trust or trusts that provide mental health services within the integrated care board’s area;

(e) at least one member nominated by the Directors of Public Health that serve each local authority within the integrated care board’s area;

(f) at least one member nominated jointly by any NHS trust, NHS foundation trust and local authority that provides social care services within the integrated care board’s area;

(g) at least one member nominated by the trade unions representing the health and social care workforce that serves the integrated care board’s area;

(h) at least one member appointed to represent the voice of patients and carers in the integrated care board’s area.”

Amendment 77, page 126, line 26, at end insert—

“(2A) The constitution must prohibit representatives of GP practices with active Alternative Provider Medical Services contracts from becoming members.”

This amendment would mean that the only GPs able to participate in Integrated Care Boards would be those whose practices are on the standard General Medical Services (GMS) contract.

Amendment 78, page 126, line 26, at end insert—

“(2A) Representatives of private providers of healthcare services, other than general practitioners who hold a contract for the provision of primary medical services in the area, may not be appointed to NHS decision-making boards, integrated care boards, or any place-based committee or sub-committee of the boards.”

Amendment 81, in schedule 2,  page 130, line 14, at end insert—

“(7) An integrated care board may enter into an externally financed development agreement in respect of any Local Improvement Finance Trust relevant to the area for which it has responsibility and receive the income related to that agreement.

(8) An integrated care board may enter into an externally financed development agreement in respect of any proposed Local Improvement Finance Trust relevant to the area for which it has responsibility.”

This amendment would enable integrated care boards to participate in existing and future LIFT schemes and to receive the income that would come to the local area from the local investment in such schemes.

Amendment 79, in schedule 3,  page 132, line 28, leave out “person” and insert

“general practitioner, GP partnership or social enterprise providing primary medical services”.

This amendment would prevent an integrated care board from entering into or renewing any Alternative Provider Medical Services (APMS) contract.

Amendment 80, page 132, line 32, leave out “person” and insert

“general practitioner, GP partnership or social enterprise providing primary medical services”.

This amendment would prevent NHS England from entering into or renewing any Alternative Provider Medical Services (APMS) contract.

Government amendments 29 and 30.

[Edward Argar]

New clause 49 has attracted a slightly fuller House than my previous speech did. This additional clause relates to the cap on care costs for charging purposes.

On 7 September, my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister took the bold step of publishing “Build Back Better: Our Plan for Health and Adult Social Care”. Successive Governments over decades have failed to tackle the reform of social care. This Government are delivering a package—package is the key—of reforms that will not only tackle the wider challenges faced by the adult social care system but reform how social care is funded to ensure that everyone, regardless of where they live or their level of assets, is protected from catastrophic costs. Let me remove all doubt on this issue: no one will lose from these reforms, compared with the system we have now, and the overwhelming majority will win.

Underpinning the reforms set out in the plan is an additional £5.4 billion over the next three years. That funding will end wholly unpredictable care costs and include at least £500 million to support the adult social care workforce. The reforms will make a real difference to the frontline of adult social care, including care users and the dedicated care workforce who have performed heroics throughout the pandemic. A crucial element of the reforms in the plan are the proposals to reform the existing social care charging rules.

[Damian Green (Ashford) (Con)]

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way so early in his speech. I am glad to hear him assert that no one will lose out and most people will win. Will he publish an impact assessment that will allow us to look at the detailed figures? As he will be aware, there is much commentary about the distribution of the possible losses, which seems to me to be an extremely important and sensitive issue for the Government to address.

[Edward Argar]

My right hon. Friend has long taken a close interest in this issue. In a moment, I will come to some of the figures and changes; I hear what he says about giving the House and the other place the information that they need and the aim is to do exactly that.

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[John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con)]

rose—

[Edward Argar]

I will make a little progress and then give way to my hon. Friend the Member for Basildon and Billericay (Mr Baron).

Currently, one in seven adults over 65 faces care costs of more than £100,000 over their lifetime. We are capping the amount that anyone will be forced to spend on personal care costs in their lifetime at £86,000. That is a seismic and historic change in the way we pay for care in England.

[Mr Baron]

The Government deserve credit for grasping this nettle, which has evaded Governments of both parties for too long, but he must understand that there is a real cause on the Government Benches in respect of the distribution of the relative losses and the worry that those who are less well off will be hit hardest by the Government’s new clause. Will he address that issue?

[Edward Argar]

I understand where my hon. Friend and Members from both sides of the House are coming from. This is the first major step forward in the reform of social care that we have seen in decades and must be seen as part of an overall package of changes.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

rose—

[Edward Argar]

I would like to make a little progress, if I may.

The reforms will make the existing means test far more generous. We are increasing the upper capital limit from £23,250 to £100,000, which will make masses of people with moderate assets eligible for some state support towards the cost of care earlier, and the lower capital limit will also increase, from £14,250 to £20,000. Below that level, people will contribute only from their income, fully protecting their savings and assets below £20,000.

Over recent days, people have compared our policy proposals to previous, abandoned and never-enacted proposals for reform. I am clear that our proposals will deliver the changes needed where others have failed and see a significant improvement on the system that is in place today.

[Barbara Keeley]

rose—

[Catherine West]

rose—

[Edward Argar]

We have considered what help people want and when they want it.

[John Redwood]

rose—

[Edward Argar]

My right hon. Friend rose earlier and I should have taken his intervention then; I hope he will forgive me.

[John Redwood]

I am grateful to the Minister. Will he confirm that the amount of tax that is going to be raised in the immediate future, in national insurance and then in a separate tax, will make up a relatively small minority of the total costs of public social care? Will he also confirm that none of these measures addresses the issue of the hotel costs that people need to pay when they go into care homes?

[Edward Argar]

My right hon. Friend is right to highlight that this is talking about personal care costs, so he is right in his point on that.

Did I see the hon. Member for Hornsey and Wood Green (Catherine West) rise earlier?

[Catherine West]

The Minister did indeed. He is being very generous in giving way. A lot of research went into the work by Mr Dilnot some time ago and a very independent assessment was made. Can he explain why, in this clause, he is going away from those recommendations and taking a fresh look at it?

[Edward Argar]

While the hon. Lady and I do not always agree on everything, she asks a perfectly a reasoned and measured question. I pay tribute to Andrew Dilnot’s work on his report. I just happen to think that, on this point, we diverged from what he proposed and we believe that what we are proposing is the right way forward. We have always intended for the cap to apply to what people personally contribute, rather than on the combination of their personal contribution and that of the state. It will mean that people with fewer chargeable assets meter towards the cap more slowly, because they are paying much less each week than people who are entirely self-funding. This amendment will make it simpler to understand the amount that will go towards the cap and make it fairer.

[Barbara Keeley]

rose—

[Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab/Co-op)]

rose—

[Edward Argar]

If the shadow Secretary of State will forgive me, the hon. Lady has attempted on a number of occasions to get in, so it is only fair that I give way to her.

[Barbara Keeley]

On the point the Minister is making about the Dilnot proposals and a comparison, let me tell him that the Alzheimer’s Society said that 15% of people with dementia in the north-west would reach the cap under the Government’s proposals, compared with 34% under Dilnot’s proposals. That is a massive amount, and those are the people, with their families, who are paying hundreds of thousands and pounds. That is the comparison.

[Edward Argar]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady. I do not think that she posed a question, but she made her point clearly, as she always does.

[Matt Hancock (West Suffolk) (Con)]

rose—

[Sir Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con)]

rose—

[Edward Argar]

If I may make a little progress, I will then give way to my former boss, the former Secretary of State, and then, if I have time, to my hon. Friend.

To reiterate, as my right hon. Friend, the Prime Minister, said on 7 September, nobody—nobody—will be “worse off” than under the current system. Currently, around half of all older adults in care receive some state support for their care costs. This will rise to roughly two thirds under these reforms. This clause would also make a number of minor technical amendments to other sections of the Care Act 2014.

[Jonathan Ashworth]

Will the Minister give way?

[Edward Argar]

Before I give way to the right hon. Gentleman, I will give way to the former Secretary of State.

[Matt Hancock]

Is not the right way to think about this change to consider the proposal in front of us and compare it with the current system? The reason that the Dilnot system, as previously proposed, was never put in place was that there was never a proposal to pay for it, whereas this package is paid for. That is why this Government have been able to deliver a package where no previous Government have been able to do so.

[Edward Argar]

I am grateful to the former Secretary of State. He is absolutely right. We deal in the reality and we should compare the reality of the system that we have in place now with what we have proposed here, which not only moves us forward, but is funded and sustainable.

[Sir Robert Neill]

Can my hon. Friend help me on two short matters? Can he give us an assurance that there will be no adverse impact on local government financing in relation to this, and that he will talk to the Local Government Association, if necessary, in this regard? Secondly, he says that it is part of a package. My right hon. Friend the Member for Ashford (Damian Green) referred to the impact assessment. Does he agree that it is only fair that, at the very least, we have an impact assessment before the Bill completes its passage through both Houses?

[Edward Argar]

Yes, of course, as we move through this reform process, it is absolutely right and vital that we work with our partners in the Local Government Association and local authorities of all political complexions. In respect of the impact assessment, I do believe that it is important that we have an impact assessment before this legislation completes its passage through both Houses.

[Jonathan Ashworth]

I am extremely grateful to the Minister. He is showing his typical courtesy in giving way. Many across the House are puzzled because we recall this document that the Government placed before the House when they asked the House to endorse the national insurance increase. Indeed, many Members did endorse that national insurance increase, even though they were breaking a manifesto commitment. This document actually says that it will introduce a care cap and

“deliver a core recommendation of the independent Dilnot Commission. It will be implemented using legislation already in place under the 2014 Care Act, which introduces the independent Dilnot Commission’s social care charging reform.”

It goes on to describe that as the “new cap”. Why have the Government moved away from the position of just a few months ago that they published ahead of a vote on increasing national insurance and moved to a policy now that disproportionately benefits those with greater assets, which surely cannot be fair?

[Edward Argar]

I am grateful to the shadow Secretary of State who, while I do not necessarily agree with what he says, as ever puts it courteously. We hold true to what we put in that “Build Back Better” document. It is necessary for this one particular element to see further primary legislation, hence the amendment today.

[Karin Smyth (Bristol South) (Lab)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Edward Argar]

I am afraid that I will not give way because I do need to make some progress.

[Karin Smyth]

Will the Minister give way on that point?

[Edward Argar]

I have been very generous with my time and to the shadow Front Bench, so forgive me, but no.

[Karin Smyth]

On that point, will the Minister please give way? Six weeks in Committee and not a mention.

[Edward Argar]

Forgive me, but no.

To reiterate, as my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister said on 7 September nobody—nobody—will be “worse off” than under the current system. Currently around half of all older adults in care receive some state support. This will rise to roughly two thirds under these reforms. On the minor technical amendments that I made to other sections of the Care Act, I would not wish to belabour each one, but I can reassure the House that those changes will ensure that the legislation works as intended and that everyone who is eligible—

[Karin Smyth]

Will the Minister give way?

[Edward Argar]

I will not give way. I want to make some more progress.

[Paul Bristow (Peterborough) (Con)]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Edward Argar]

I want to make a little more progress. I will not give way to one of my hon. Friends or to the hon. Lady at this moment.

This will be done by amending the provisions to clearly describe the information that must be included in a personal budget so that individual contributions count towards the cap at the local authority determined rate, and to ensure that personal budgets and independent personal budgets work as they were originally intended when being used in conjunction with the cap.

Before turning to integrated care boards, let me put it on record that, once again, this must be regarded as part of a package of measures that improves significantly on the current provision in place for those funding care.

[Philip Dunne (Ludlow) (Con)]

I am extremely grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way. Before we leave the subject of the cap, can he just confirm that this proposal includes the costs of domiciliary care, which had not been included under the original Dilnot proposals that are exercising Labour Members?

--- Later in debate ---

[Edward Argar]

My right hon. Friend is exactly right. I am grateful to him for giving me an opportunity to highlight that this improves in this respect on the Dilnot proposals. I put on record my tribute to Andrew Dilnot for his work, but we believe that this is a better package, and, as he highlighted, a sustainable package from a financial perspective.

[Karin Smyth]

Will the Minister give way. We have had six weeks in Committee.

[Edward Argar]

The hon. Lady implores me, saying that after six weeks of having to sit opposite me in Committee, the least I can do is allow her to intervene.

[Karin Smyth]

Several times in that Committee, I offered to help the Government in a cross-party way. The Minister has been dealt a bad blow here tonight, having to come here and defend this proposal. In those six weeks—I think 21 sessions—not one iota of this proposal was mentioned or brought forward. We all know about bad legislation, rushed legislation, and legislation that does not have the commitment on something so important. I have commended the Government for starting this conversation, but this is a poor legislation move. I am sure that Members here would support the Minister tonight if he were to withdraw this proposal, go back to the Chancellor and ask him to think again. We would all be behind him if he took that opportunity.

[Edward Argar]

I did wonder whether I would regret that intervention. It was typically courteous, although I have to say that when a Member of the Opposition says that, “We’re here to help you”, I am not always sure. [Interruption.] Of course, when the hon. Lady does it, I know that she is sincere about it. The point I make is that this important change is necessary to deliver on the pledge we have made. It is being introduced on Report. While ICBs and integrated care systems, which we will speak about shortly, are hugely important, I suspect that this matter will dominate the debate in this group on Report. Equally, I suspect that it will be fully debated and scrutinised in the other place.

[Paul Bristow]

Does the Minister agree that we have been on a journey? The context of this needs to be considered. We are starting a conversation, but other things will come. There will be bumps in the road, but the context that we need to consider is that this is the first Government to tackle the issue of social care in decades. That is the right way to look at this piece of legislation. It should not be looked at in a short-term way.

[Edward Argar]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, a member of the Health and Social Care Committee, for his intervention. He makes the point well that this is another step on the journey, but it is a journey that only this Government have actually got round to starting. Previous Governments have failed to make that progress. The previous Labour Government produced two Green Papers, one Royal Commission, and one spending review and nothing was done, so this Government are making significant progress.

[Barbara Keeley]

Will the Minister give way?

--- Later in debate ---

[Edward Argar]

I have already given way to the hon. Lady, so I will not do so again.

I thank the hon. Member for Bristol South for her words, but the situation is not as she characterises it with my having been dealt a difficult or challenging hand this evening. I am proud to stand here and defend this Government as the first Government to make changes to tackle the social care challenges that this country faces.

[Paula Barker (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Edward Argar]

I have given way a number of times and I want to make some progress. I will be winding up the debate, so hon. Members will have the opportunity to come back in then.

[Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Edward Argar]

I am afraid that I will not give way now.

[Jonathan Ashworth]

For Leicestershire!

[Edward Argar]

I did give way to the right hon. Gentleman, the shadow Secretary of State, and he is my other constituency neighbour in Leicestershire.

Let me turn to integrated care boards and integrated care partnerships. I remind the House of what my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State said on Second Reading. These bodies are critical for delivering the key aims of the legislation: reducing bureaucracy; supporting integration and collaboration; and improving accountability. At the heart of the legislation for these bodies is flexibility—giving systems the scope to shape structures according to their needs. This principle is widely supported across the NHS and local government, and we would not want to imperil that, which is why we will be resisting attempts this evening to constrain more tightly how ICBs and ICPs operate. However, we recognise that there are a number of points of clarification that would be helpful to include, and we have tabled a number of amendments to do just that.

Before we reach the meat of this section, there are a number of minor amendments to deal with. First, minor and technical Government amendment 29 will update a reference in the Health and Social Care (Community Health and Standards) Act 2003 to reflect the changes made to section 99 of the National Health Service Act 2006. Secondly, Government amendment 30 will designate integrated care boards as operators of essential services under the Network and Information Systems Regulations 2018. This will place requirements on ICBs to protect their network and information systems by managing risks to ensure service availability and prevent patient harm.

We expect ICBs to take decisions on IT investment, including on cyber-security, and owning systems—and the associated cyber-risk—that are critical to the provision of healthcare. This includes holding the shared care record. The loss or corruption of data from the shared care record could have clear implications for the delivery of care, and for wider public trust in the digitisation and data-sharing agenda. We must take this risk seriously, and assure ourselves that ICBs are doing so as well.

[Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

May I take the Minister back to new clause 49, very briefly? He is right to point out that some measures that he has brought forward are more generous than previously proposed, but there is no doubt that the way that the cap works means that it is less generous for those with more modest assets. Does he not agree? How can that be fair?

[Edward Argar]

I simply take my hon. Friend back to my previous point: when compared to the current system, this is a significant improvement and step forward, particularly when taken in the round with the overall package of measures that see the floors go from £23,250 up to £100,000 and from £14,250 up to £20,000. We have to look at this issue in the round, considering all those aspects rather than purely one element alone.

[Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Edward Argar]

I would like to move on to ICBs and ICSs, but I suspect that, assuming there is time, my right hon. Friend, who chairs the Treasury Committee, may have the opportunity to intervene during my winding up, or to give a speech during the course of the debate.

Currently, the NIS regulations cover NHS providers in England, rather than commissioners. Government amendment 30 allows us to mitigate cyber-risk in a wider sense, making cyber-security a responsibility for organisations that have duties across the system, and to drive forward a shared and collaborative effort towards reducing the risk to patients. I hope that Government amendments 29 and 30 will be uncontentious and supported on both sides of the House.

[Liz Kendall]

Will the Minister give way?

[Edward Argar]

On ICBs, which I have moved on to, but not on new clause 49.

[Liz Kendall]

Is the Minister absolutely sure about what he said in response to the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake)—that everybody would be better off under new clause 49 than they are now? Is it not the case, as illustrated by the Health Foundation, that people with very modest homes, worth less than £106,000, will never hit the cap and therefore will not be better off under the Government’s proposed system than they are now?

[Edward Argar]

I make the point to the hon. Lady that I made in my opening remarks; I said that no one would be worse off and the majority would be better off. That is the point that I make to her: people would not be worse off. If she looks at Hansard, she will see that those were my original remarks when I opened this debate.

--- Later in debate ---

[Paula Barker]

Will the Minister give way?

[Edward Argar]

On ICBs, but not on new clause 49. We have moved on and I need to make some progress, because I know that many Members want to speak.

[Paula Barker]

I thank the Minister for giving way; he has been very generous with his time. Does he agree that if true integration and genuine parity of esteem are to be achieved, it should be written into law that local authorities should have a seat on the ICB?

[Edward Argar]

Local authorities will have a seat on ICBs and on ICPs. The approach set out in the legislation is appropriate. We have sought throughout for it to be permissive, not prescriptive, and that remains the right approach.

[John Redwood]

Will the Minister give way on ICBs?

[Edward Argar]

May I make a little bit of progress? Depending on time, I may then give way to my right hon. Friend. I am conscious that hon. and right hon. Members want to speak—I suspect, primarily on new clause 49.

I turn to Government amendment 25. In doing so, I thank the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Justin Madders), whose birthday it is today—I wish him a happy birthday; I am sure that he can think of nothing that he would prefer to be doing—and the hon. Member for Nottingham North (Alex Norris) for their discussions about this issue. I do not know what view they have reached, but I am grateful for the helpful spirit in which they approached those conversations.

Although service provision—I emphasise the word “provision”—by the independent and voluntary sectors has been an important and valuable feature of the system under successive Governments, it was never the intention for independent providers to sit on integrated care boards and it still is not. We were clear that the conflict of interests provisions addressed the issue, despite misleading and inaccurate claims by some campaigners. However, we are happy to put the matter even further beyond doubt.

Government amendment 25 makes it clear that no one may be appointed to an ICB who would undermine the independence of the NHS, either as a result of their interests in the private healthcare sector or otherwise. We expect this to prevent, for example, directors of private healthcare companies, significant stakeholders of private healthcare companies and lobbyists from sitting on the board of an ICB. It would also prevent anyone with an obvious ideological interest that clearly runs counter to the NHS’s independence from sitting on a board of an ICB.

[John Redwood]

Will the Minister give us a brief comment on the recruitment of chief executives and senior management to the boards? Will we be using people who already have senior NHS jobs, meaning that there will be no redundancy and transfer costs, or will there be quite a redundancy bill because we want to change personnel?

[Edward Argar]

I think my right hon. Friend is talking about executive posts. Yes, there will be processes in place to ensure that employment rights are respected. There will be some roles that are completely new and there will be a competition, but I would expect that those with a significant track record and experience would therefore find themselves in a strong position. I will not prejudge any of those individual decisions.

[Sir Charles Walker (Broxbourne) (Con)]

rose—

[Edward Argar]

I will give way to my right hon. Friend.

[Sir Charles Walker]

I am not a right hon. Member, but I am very happy to take the promotion.

I have tabled a number of technical, totemic amendments on parity of esteem that appear on today’s amendment paper and tomorrow’s. They propose taking general references to “health” in the Bill and changing them to “physical and mental health”. I hope that the Minister will receive those amendments with his usual generosity and make the necessary changes over the next two days.

[Edward Argar]

I take my hon. Friend’s amendments in the spirit in which they are of course intended. I recognise the importance and value that those on both sides of this House put on parity of esteem of mental and physical health. I suspect that we may debate the amendments in subsequent groupings and I look forward to responding then.

We have, in the process of drafting this amendment, heard suggestions that we should simply ban private company employees completely from the boards of ICBs. I am afraid that doing so is not so simple, nor would it achieve the desired result in all cases. In fact, our amendment goes further to underline the importance of NHS independence than would an amendment that focused purely on banning employees of private providers. There are clearly some candidates who would be suitable but may have minor interests in private healthcare. GPs, for example, do provide, and have provided, their excellent knowledge and experience of their patients in guiding commissioning decisions, and some may have private practices as well. Excluding them would be to lose their experience from the NHS, and therefore such an involvement with the private sector would clearly not risk undermining the independence of the NHS.

[Dr Dan Poulter (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con)]

I draw the House’s attention to my declaration in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests as a practising NHS doctor. A number of GPs have, in recent times, sought to group together into confederations of practices, which could create a bloc interest within a local board area. How will that potential conflict of interest in the commissioning and provision of services be addressed by the Government through legislation?

[Edward Argar]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who knows of what he speaks in terms of the operation of healthcare services. We would not wish to exclude GPs or groups of GPs from being able to participate in decision making. That expertise, as we have seen with clinical commissioning groups, can be hugely valuable. What we have sought to do, in an amendment that is technically worded, for want of a better way of putting it, is to strike the right balance while also ensuring that the additional measures on the constitutions of the ICBs and ICPs have to be approved by NHS England to avoid any obvious conflict of interest. But we are not seeking to avoid GPs being able to operate in that space and sitting on ICBs.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Edward Argar]

I would like to make a little progress and then I will give way to the hon. Gentleman, who has been bobbing for some time.

We believe—this may not answer the hon. Gentleman’s point, but I will make a little progress and then if there is time—[Interruption.] Well, we will see. Hope springs eternal. A blanket ban on employees of private companies would also, we fear, be arbitrary. It would not cover the full range of people involved in non-NHS providers, some of whom may not be suitable candidates to sit on ICBs because of their involvement, but not employment, within the private healthcare sector. With the complex corporate structures that providers may have established, a narrow definition in the Bill could be unhelpful and risk not capturing the people we wish to capture.

[Chris Grayling (Epsom and Ewell) (Con)]

I support what my hon. Friend is saying. It would be crazy to exclude primary care because it is effectively a private healthcare business, and therefore what he is saying is enormously important. In support of my hon. Friend the Member for Broxbourne (Sir Charles Walker), I believe it would be absolutely wrong, looking at my own county, if the mental health trust did not have a presence in the governorship of the ICB. I hope that the Minister will ensure a presence not only for the conventional trusts in hospitals and in primary care but for the mental health trusts, because their role is vital and the integration of services is essential to the delivery of good mental health care.

[Edward Argar]

My right hon. Friend makes a point that came out in some of the oral evidence sessions on the Bill. Our aim was to create a minimum membership for the ICBs and ICPs, but it is not prescriptive—it can go beyond that—so there is scope for mental health trusts or other health trusts to have seats on those boards. Indeed, Dame Gill Morgan, who runs the integrated care system in Gloucestershire, said that that is exactly what she has done and that she would be surprised if any ICB did not wish to do it. But we wanted to set a de minimis membership to allow for local flexibility.

[Clive Efford]

We have GP practices that are being privatised now—they are being bought up by private companies, with some foreign interests as well. If the Minister is saying that those companies can have representation on ICBs, we have already seen circumstances where people have tried to redact minutes of meetings, so does this not open up the possibility of private interests being served at these meetings but not being accountable through public scrutiny?

--- Later in debate ---

[Edward Argar]

I entirely understand the point the hon. Gentleman is making. I think he was careful, shall we say, given some litigation that may be going on, not to mention anything specific, but I know what he is talking about. We believe that our amendment will prevent private companies—whatever services they were providing for the NHS—with a significant private interest in this, or their lobbyists, from being able to sit on ICBs. The hon. Member for Bristol South (Karin Smyth) raised the need for transparency in Committee a number of times, and I suspect we may return to that point. We believe that the current transparency requirements on CCGs that will be carried across are sufficient to ensure transparency and public access to the information they need.

[Geraint Davies]

rose—

[Edward Argar]

I am afraid I am about to conclude. I suspect that the hon. Gentleman will come back in with a speech and I will endeavour to pick up on that in the wind-ups.

There are a number of similar amendments, such as amendment 101 in the names of the hon. Members for Wirral West (Margaret Greenwood) and for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas). I hope they might feel, to some degree, reassured by our amendment and the intent behind it, but that is obviously for them to say. We believe that the Government’s amendment puts beyond doubt what we believe was already entirely clear but were determined to put beyond doubt—that ICBs will not and cannot be controlled in any way by the private sector, as NHS-accountable bodies guided by the NHS constitution and with NHS values at their heart. These principles, I believe, irrespective of other debates we may have this evening, command respect from both sides of this place. I therefore commend the amendments to the House.

[Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab)]

A wide range of issues that are part of this group of amendments demonstrate the cold reality of this Bill. It is a jumble sale of bits and pieces. Of course a Bill can be wide-ranging, but having breadth is not the same as having coherence, or indeed clarity. Such are the issues within scope in this grouping that I will not comment directly on every new clause and amendment but hope to have time to say at least a few words on those emanating from the Opposition Front-Bench team, as well as on any Government new clauses or amendments that we oppose. Some amendments refer to matters that have been dealt with in Committee where we have expressed our views and put forward amendments that failed to persuade the Government. Sadly, we have insufficient time to go over the same ground again, particularly given the rapid shifting of the goalposts we have seen in the past week.

I turn first to integrated care boards, or ICBs, and, more widely, the issue of governance. The question of governance and accountability remains an important matter to us and needs greater clarity than currently appears in the Bill. For Members who may not be familiar with the detail, the Bill proposes yet another reorganisation of the NHS, creating 42 new integrated care systems where decisions on how NHS and care spending will be made. The decision-making bodies within these systems are the ICBs, replacing the CCGs, which fall away into the annals of history alongside the primary care groups, the primary care trusts and all the other permutations that we have seen.

Our discussions on these matters in Committee showed that our disagreements tended to centre around an intention by Government to limit what is in statute and to leave maximum flexibility at local level, as opposed to our desire to ensure that safeguards and protections were in place for those matters we felt were too important to be left out. It is wholly ironic, therefore, that the Bill proclaims, on the one hand, local freedoms and flexibilities, yet on the other proposes sweeping top-down powers for NHS England and the Secretary of State. Our view remains that some flexibility is fine to allow shaping to local needs, but that some key principles need to be put into the Bill to ensure that there are no misunderstandings or unintended consequences.

We know that the genesis of this Bill has been the realisation that increasingly large parts of the NHS were ignoring the 2012 Lansley Act. Along with changes to procurement and pricing, this grouping deals with the main elements of reversing parts of that Act. We could spend all our time referring to what we said 10 years ago, and how the Health and Social Care Act 2012 has proved to be the disaster that we said it would be, but we will spare the Government the “We told you so” lectures, because even those on the Government Benches are now aware that the 2012 Act has been among the worst policy mistakes in the history of the NHS. Whether that damage was worse than the damage done by a decade of austerity remains to be seen, but repairing the damage done by austerity is not for today, as there is little in the Bill to address the ongoing consequences of a decade of underfunding, particularly the wholly appalling waiting times that we now see across the board.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jeremy Hunt (South West Surrey) (Con)]

Madam Deputy Speaker, I think on this occasion I can oblige you, because I will be very brief. I wish to speak to amendment 114, which may seem a rather technical amendment—as is evidenced by the fact that, out of 650 colleagues, only one has actually signed it, and that is me—but it makes up in quality for what it does not have in quantity. It is about making sure that the new integrated care boards focus their energy on the safety and quality of care of patients. That is very important, because the new integrated care boards will have enormous power. In effect, they will be the local governing bodies of our NHS.

Although the statutory structures matter, what the people running those care boards focus their attention on is incredibly important to all our constituents. The amendment will make sure that when care boards consider their priorities, the things that matter to patients—the safety and quality of care—are put at the very top of their list. We know the way the NHS works. It is the fifth-largest bureaucracy in the world, and there is a plethora of internal NHS—

[Edward Argar]

rose—

[Jeremy Hunt]

I see the Minister wants me to give way. May I make my argument for one moment, and then give way?

There is a plethora of internal NHS targets, there are operational targets and there are financial targets. They often have an excellent purpose, but, as in the case of Mid Staffs and other cases where things went badly wrong, being under a lot of pressure to meet those targets means corners can be cut, and the quality of care experienced by patients can be really damaged. The amendment would make sure that there was discipline in the system, so that whatever pressure NHS managers were under, they were always focused on safety and quality of care.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jeremy Hunt]

Before I come to the Minister, I want to say—and I am very grateful to my right hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (John Redwood), who gave me consistent support on this agenda when I was Health Secretary—that, in the public sector, the one system that has seemed to make sure we focus public bodies on our constituents’ priorities is the Ofsted system in schools. We have rolled that out, I think reasonably successfully, to hospitals, GP surgeries and care homes, and this amendment makes that possible for the new integrated care boards. I want to give the Minister a chance to intervene to tell us his reflections on whether this system could work.

[Edward Argar]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend. It is not just my right hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (John Redwood) who supports him on this; I and the Government do, and we are delighted to accept his amendment.

[Jeremy Hunt]

I am most grateful to my hon. Friend, and I am also grateful to the Opposition, who have indicated that they will not oppose the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Maria Miller (Basingstoke) (Con)]

I listened carefully to my hon. Friend the Minister for Health earlier as he introduced new clause 49 because the funding of social care has been a huge concern for too many years. The people we represent deserve far more certainty about how their old age will be funded if they require social care.

We have a pension system and a system to support disabled people, but the funding of social care is a real uncertainty. I pay tribute to the Minister for bringing forward these costed proposals to provide some certainty for the future for more people. He is to be commended for being clear that no one will lose out under the proposals and that the majority will be better off because of the issues that we have already gone through—particularly because the means-test threshold is being significantly raised. He can say that with some force because of the more than £5 billion extra being put forward by the Government to fund social care in a sustainable way for the future.

However, there is still clearly some concern, as the Minister can hear from the debate. As my hon. Friend the Member for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage) said, no solution will be perfect, so I was particularly pleased to hear of the Minister’s plans to publish an impact assessment, which will clearly set out the impact of these measures across the board. That is important.

Finally, I want to speak in support of my amendment 102. We all know that the quality of support that we give victims of domestic and sexual abuse is a marker for the health of our society, and it is not just a matter for the NHS. However, the NHS plays a vital part in that support. Amendment 102 requires the joint forward plan for integrated care boards and their partners to properly set out the steps they propose to take to address the needs of victims of domestic abuse—whether domestic violence or sexual abuse, and whether it involves children or adults.

Amendment 102 does not limit the plan to addressing only the victims of domestic abuse; many other types of abuse are equally devastating, and it is permissive enough to allow innovation and improved ways of working to be developed in guidance. I hope that it can be used as a basis for guidance to integrated care boards as part of their general powers.

Amendment 102 is just part of the greater whole. The Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill in particular will require action across Government, but the amendment will help to ensure that every part of the state is pulling in the same direction when it comes to issues of domestic and sexual abuse. My amendment is similar to new clause 33, which my hon. Friend the Member for Newton Abbot (Anne Marie Morris) outlined earlier, but my amendment is more permissive and less prescriptive, so I hope the Government will find it acceptable.

[Edward Argar]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for the case she is making. I should also put on the record my gratitude for the work that my hon. Friend the Member for Newton Abbot (Anne Marie Morris) has done in this policy space and for her proposal. Her Majesty’s Government are happy to accept my right hon. Friend’s amendment 102 on support for victims of domestic abuse.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jess Phillips (Birmingham, Yardley) (Lab)]

I was not expecting to be called, Madam Deputy Speaker, but here we are. I want to tell a little story about my dad. My dad often rings me and tells me the things I should say in Parliament—I am not entirely sure any of you are quite ready for it, but I want to tell a story about my dad. He was born in the war, and they were given a council house by the Attlee Government—my dad could lecture us on it for weeks! He was given a council house, which his very Conservative parents bought in the 1980s. My granny, unbelievably—a lovely, generous woman—was a massive Thatcherite. She bought her council house in the 1980s, and that council house stands in my constituency. It is worth around £120,000.

My dad went on to get an education—a free education—and he moved into an area of Birmingham that was not very trendy at the time. He stayed there, I was born there, and my brothers lived there. All through our lives we watched that area get a little bit trendier, and the price of my dad’s house, which he bought for £30,000, went up and up and up. He didn’t particularly do much work—he likes to woodwork in his garage, but he has not done much. His house is probably worth around £700,000 now, and it was £30,000 when he bought it.

If my dad were here today, what he would say to hon. Members, and what he will almost certainly say to me, because he watches it all, lurking on Twitter, is that he does not deserve to keep his wealth for his children at any greater rate than the people who live in the council house that his parents bought on Frodesley Road in Sheldon. Yet today, the people who live in my constituency and the council house that my granny bought, to try to get a better life, will subsidise the care of my father, who has a £700,000 house that I do not need to inherit. I’m all right. I’ve got quite a good job. It is totally unacceptable that that is the situation we are putting almost all my constituents in, compared with constituents in Chipping Norton, for example, or the constituents of other hon. Members who have stood up and spoken. My constituents will largely be left with nothing. They will not be grateful.

[Edward Argar]

I am conscious of time, Madam Deputy Speaker, so I will try to cover some of the main themes that have emerged from today’s debate. I am grateful for the debate we have had today. The vast majority of what is contained in the Bill is exactly what the NHS said that it wanted and needed, and it is the right legislation being brought forward at the right time, to drive forward those priorities highlighted by the NHS in its 2019 consultation. The Bill drives forward integration not only within the local NHS within a region, but also greater integration with a local authority. It provides the foundations on which we can continue to build, as we move forward with greater integration of health and social care services that are designed to work around the individual, rather than in institutional silos.

Despite misleading claims by campaigners—and, indeed, by some Opposition Members—the Bill does not privatise the NHS. The NHS will always be free at the point of delivery. It has been in the hands of the Conservative party longer than it has been in the hands of any other party, and the Conservative party has put in place record investment in terms of resources in our NHS. What we propose in the Bill continues to build on that. Government Amendment 25 on ICBs is clear: ICBs are NHS bodies. They have always been NHS bodies in our proposals, and we have put in place provisions regarding conflicts of interest. Just to make sure, and given the misleading claims about private involvement, new clause 25 puts beyond doubt that ICBs are NHS bodies and must act in the best interests of the NHS. It is an amendment that is much stronger and much more effectively drafted than the alternatives put forward by the Opposition, because we believe in putting this question beyond doubt.

On the ICBs and ICPs, we have sought to be permissive rather than prescriptive, giving those local systems, within a national framework, the flexibility to deliver what they need to deliver for their local areas, which they know best.

I have been happy to accept amendments 102 and 114. I will continue to reflect on the points made by my hon. Friend the Member for Broxbourne (Sir Charles Walker); in the nicest possible way, I suspect that—rightly—he will not go away. The former Secretary of State, my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Surrey (Jeremy Hunt), set out very clearly the case for his amendment 114, which I was happy to accept, and the importance it places on patient safety.

My right hon. Friend the Member for South Northamptonshire (Dame Andrea Leadsom) has done a huge amount of work in this space—I pay tribute to her—and she is right: we will look very carefully in the statutory guidance at how we can emphasise that. I fear that my hon. Friend the Member for Newton Abbot (Anne Marie Morris) was not in her seat when I paid tribute to the work that she had done previously, but I put that on the record too.

On new clause 49, my hon. Friend the Member for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage), a distinguished former Care Minister, made the point extremely well that this is a significant improvement and step forward on where we currently are in respect of tackling the social care challenge.

[Kevin Hollinrake]

Will the Minister give way?

[Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Edward Argar]

I am afraid I will not, because I have only a couple of minutes in which to try to address these points, and I did give way a dozen or so times in my opening remarks.

Equally, I recognise, as always in this House, the strength and genuine sincerity of the views and the points put by hon. Members on both sides, genuinely highlighting and wishing to explore certain aspects of new clause 49 to understand exactly what it does and how it works. I have complete respect for the strength of those views.

I believe that, as my right hon. Friend the Member for West Suffolk (Matt Hancock) set out very clearly, this is a significant step forward. It will make a huge difference, and it must be treated as part of a package of measures rather than in isolation. As he quite rightly highlighted, we must look at the floors as well as the cap, at the support that is available, and at the increases in those floors from £14,250 to £20,000 and up to £100,000.

[Matt Western]

Will the Minister give way?

[Edward Argar]

I am afraid I will not, because I literally have only one minute, and I did give way multiple times in my opening remarks.

I believe that the measures in this Bill, which we have debated with these amendments today, give the NHS what it needs to further integrate to deliver the local services it needs and, crucially, move us a huge step forward in tackling the challenge posed by social care for future generations.

Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.

Cancer Diagnoses: Young People in Hertfordshire

Edward Argar Excerpts

Friday 19th November 2021 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Health (Edward Argar)]

I thank and pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Hertford and Stortford (Julie Marson) for bringing this debate before us, and for raising this difficult issue in a typically dignified and sensitive way. She has done justice to Jessica and her family.

I join my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for North East Hertfordshire (Sir Oliver Heald) and my hon. Friend the Member for South West Hertfordshire (Mr Mohindra), who intervened, in sending my condolences to Andrea and Simon, and to Jessica’s family and friends, following her death. We know that the passage of time can help, but it can never totally remove that sense of loss. I pay tribute to them for the work that they are doing to highlight the issue. It must be very difficult for them and it is humbling that they—through their excellent Member of Parliament, but also in person—have been willing to share this deeply upsetting experience to seek to build a better future for others. I put on record my tribute and gratitude to them.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Hertford and Stortford has set out, Jessica sadly had a very rare form of cancer. I am advised that the timescale and complexity of diagnosis in this case was due to the rarity of the cancer, especially in younger people, but we are always willing to look more broadly and holistically at other factors that we may have some control over that could help to improve diagnosis in the future. It is absolutely right that we do so because, as my hon. Friend said, sadly no one is too young to fall victim to cancer, so it behoves all of us in this House and beyond to do all we can to improve diagnosis.

As my hon. Friend alluded to, we are working nationally on achieving the long-term plan commitment towards early diagnosis of cancer, including rarer cancers or those that are harder to diagnose, in order hopefully to avoid situations such as Jessica’s being repeated in the future. Hertfordshire’s hospital trusts are working extremely hard to that aim. In delivering the long-term plan for cancer, we have the aim of diagnosing three quarters of cancers at stage 1 or 2, and increasing cancer survival rates so that an additional 55,000 people survive their cancer for five years or more. Delivering those ambitions through earlier and faster diagnosis, rapid adoption of innovation and, crucially, the roll-out of personalised care—looking at someone as an individual—will benefit children and young adults across the country.

Alongside this, as my hon. Friend set out, all cancer systems continue to roll out rapid diagnostic centres or rapid diagnostics services, which are an important part of the clinical commissioning groups’ broader strategy to deliver faster and earlier diagnosis, and an improved patient experience. By summer 2021, there were 102 live rapid diagnostic centre pathways across hospitals in England and a further 98 in development, compared to just 12 in March 2020.

To make the discussion rather more local, in East and North Hertfordshire NHS Trust, the services to support and assist patients whose cancer is of unknown primary origin and those who have what are clinically known as “vague symptoms” are being brought together to make best use of clinical resource. Multi-disciplinary team co-ordinators will track patients on their pathways and ensure that the new 28-day faster diagnosis standard is met. Funding has also been put in place to provide psychological support to support patients earlier, at a time when they may be worried about receiving a potentially life-changing—or, tragically in some cases, life-ending—diagnosis.

Herts Valleys CCG is developing services for patients with non-specific symptoms that could indicate cancer—for example, a 12-month pilot of a primary care-led vague symptoms pathway, with direct access to CT scanning. This began in February and is reported to be working well, and the CCG is looking further to develop this work and integrate it more with the acute trust. There is also a significant amount of work on the site-specific pathways through more efficient diagnostic pathways. This goes to what my hon. Friend was saying, as it supports earlier and faster cancer diagnosis by assessing patients’ symptoms holistically—bringing all the symptoms together when considering them, rather than looking at them in isolation, when it would be understandable if a misdiagnosis were made.

[Sir Oliver Heald]

I want to follow up on the point that I made when intervening on my hon. Friend the Member for Hertford and Stortford (Julie Marson). The project that the Minister is talking about is very good, but I just wonder about disseminating best practice more widely in GP surgeries. Does he think that the idea of having one GP in a practice who takes a lead on cancer—ensuring that the practice is up to date with the latest diagnostics, treatment and so on—is worth pursuing?

[Edward Argar]

My right hon. and learned Friend is also an old friend, so I suspect that he has a slight insight into where I was to be going in a few minutes. I hope to be able to answer that point specifically.

On education in cancer diagnosis within Hertfordshire and on GPs having the necessary skills and keeping them up to date, GPs in the region are encouraged to maintain their knowledge and skills in the field and are supported by Macmillan GPs, who are specialists in cancer care. Cancer education programmes such as Gateway C are available online, and face-to-face education sessions have now resumed, including monthly seminars offered by providers and by Cancer Research UK. A primary care network cancer clinical leads group has also been established to share the latest local issues and best practice.

I turn to specific points highlighted by my hon. Friend the Member for Hertford and Stortford. On face-to-face appointments and the ability to diagnose in that context, £20 million of elective recovery funding has been distributed to cancer alliances in this financial year to help accelerate the implementation of service models that streamline the front end of the pathway and support the management of high referral volumes. Throughout the pandemic, NHS England and Improvement has provided guidance to general practice and continually updated standard operating procedures to ensure that changing services could operate safely. NHS England and Improvement set out clear expectations that general practices offer face-to-face appointments alongside remote appointments—telephone or online—and that clinical necessity and patient preference should be taken into account to determine the most appropriate method.

My hon. Friend raised research and how it could help save lives in the future. NHS England and Improvement is supporting GRAIL’s Galleri trial, where studies have shown the ability to detect more than 50 types of cancers through a single blood test. The Galleri test can, as she said, detect chemical changes in blood as cancer can release small particles of DNA into the blood—known as circulating tumour DNA—which leak from tumours into the bloodstream, to give a vital early warning. The Cancer Research UK and King’s College London cancer prevention trials unit is conducting a randomised control trial along with the NHS and GRAIL. The blood samples from the first subjects in the trial are being obtained at mobile testing clinics in retail parks as well as at various convenient community locations. The trial’s participants must not have had a cancer diagnosis in the last three years. The main trial has now started. As hon. Members will know, I am always cautious about such things, but I am cautiously optimistic and genuinely hope that the trial will yield innovation that will make a huge difference in the ways mentioned by my hon. Friend.

My hon. Friend also raised the central point of GPs handling cases in their entirety or of having a point of contact who can look at a case holistically from the individual’s point of view, with knowledge of all their symptoms, medical history and so on. The general practice contract requires practices to provide a named accountable general practitioner to all registered patients. That GP must take the lead in ensuring that any primary medical services considered necessary to meet the needs of a patient, including appropriate referrals to specialist care and liaison with other health professionals involved in the patient’s care, are co-ordinated and delivered to that patient.

As of 1 April last year, we introduced the supporting early cancer diagnosis service specification for primary care networks to support improvements in rates of early cancer diagnosis. The 2021-22 quality and outcomes framework, which is a reward and incentive scheme for general practices, includes five indicators related to cancer care, including a quality improvement module on early cancer diagnosis. That improvement module was designed specifically to improve referral and safety net practices.

I hope that that answers some of my hon. Friend’s questions. She rightly highlights that there is always more to do in this space, and as we think of Jessica and her family it behoves all of us to continue to work to improve the quality of care provided, improve research, improve early diagnosis and look at each person who comes forward with symptoms or concerns as an individual, bringing all those factors together.

One of the privileges for the Minister responding to the Adjournment debate on a Friday is to speak on a subject outside of their usual portfolio, and this is one such opportunity. It has been a humbling experience, and one that I hope will inspire us all to renewed efforts, thinking of Jessica, to improve services as we go forward.

Question put and agreed to.

Correction to Written Parliamentary Questions

Edward Argar Excerpts

Tuesday 9th November 2021 Written Statements

[The Minister for Health (Edward Argar)]

I would like to inform the House that a written answer I gave on 24 September 2020, No. 90063, and subsequent to that, answers 97759, 117196 and 117198, to the hon. Member for Romford (Andrew Rosindell) and the hon. Member for Scunthorpe (Holly Mumby-Croft), were incomplete.



In 2018 the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence published guidance on Hearing loss in adults which advises against ear wax syringing due to its associated risks. However, I recognise that by incorrectly implying that ear wax syringing is solely an enhanced service this could have been interpreted to mean that necessary and clinically appropriate ear wax removal should not be free at the point of use on the NHS.



GP practices are increasingly recommending self-care methods as the primary means to support the safe removal of ear wax and to prevent its build up. If, however, a GP practice considers removal clinically necessary, ear irrigation or micro-suction—as clinically appropriate—should either be undertaken at the practice—if they have the expertise and equipment— or the patient should be referred to an appropriate local NHS service.



Local commissioners are responsible for arranging for the provision of medical services to the extent they consider necessary to meet the reasonable needs of the people for whom they are responsible. Therefore commissioners should ensure that there is appropriate access to ear wax removal services, where these are necessary and clinically appropriate for a patient, which are free at the point of use.

[HCWS380]

Hospital Building Programme

Edward Argar Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd November 2021 Westminster Hall

[The Minister for Health (Edward Argar)]

I am very grateful to you, Mr Sharma; that was a deft and adept use of the Chair. It is a genuine pleasure to serve under your chairmanship.

I pay particular attention and pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Dr Mullan) for securing this debate. The case that he makes for Leighton Hospital has cross-party support, as we have seen, including from the hon. Member for Weaver Vale (Mike Amesbury) and, indeed, from the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Justin Madders). This has been a cross-party and very well-tempered debate, and as ever I am grateful to the shadow Minister for the tenor and tone of his comments. We have spent the past couple of months sitting opposite each other in a Bill Committee, which reported yesterday. Clearly, so shocked were we at the prospect of not continuing to sit opposite each other, here we are in Westminster Hall this morning.

I am also grateful to my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Mrs Miller) for her kind words in highlighting the fact that I am still in this role. In the same vein, I should say that the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston is still in his role, having served as shadow Minister even longer than I have served in my role. There is some value in that, because too often in this place we see a very rapid churn of Ministers and shadow Ministers. Issues such as those we are grappling with today need, by their very nature, a long-term view and a long-term understanding.

I join the shadow Minister in paying tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Crewe and Nantwich, not only for introducing this debate but for his work on the frontline. He was typically humble about that work, but his contribution was significant and he should be proud of it. He quite rightly paid tribute to all of those in our health and care system, as we all should—and should continue to do—for the work that they have done; not only the work they have done throughout the pandemic, which has been incredibly challenging, but the work they do every day, year in and year out, on the frontline to help to keep our constituents safe.

My hon. Friend is absolutely right about the importance of the topic that we are debating today. Buildings are hugely important. They give our clinicians, our frontline staff and our ancillary staff the context or the environment in which they can do their best. Therapeutics, research, new diagnostic kit, technology: all these things are hugely important because, as the shadow Minister alluded to, they allow the beating heart of our NHS—the workforce; the people—to do their job, and who, for want of a better way of putting it, make the magic happen in those environments. It is incumbent on us to give them that environment and these tools, so that they can do their best.

Various right hon. and hon. Members have highlighted the context in which we approach this debate. Many areas are undergoing significant development, growth in housing and increases in demand. There are demographic changes, with ageing populations in some areas needing increased hospital facilities.

Coupled with that, the context was set out again by many right hon. and hon. Members, particularly my hon. Friend the Member for Keighley (Robbie Moore), who spoke about the state of the estate, for want of a better way of putting it. There are hospitals that have, in a sense, served for far longer than they were designed to serve. They have been kept going, but that poses challenges, not just with reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete, or RAAC, planks, which I will turn to in a moment, but operationally with the task of running them, given the day-to-day choices that clinicians and managers have to make to put fixes in place, so that they can continue to provide services.

The shadow Minister asked several questions. I will address one or two of them now, then come on to the others later. He talked about the workforce, whom I have just mentioned. I say to him that the number of doctors is up, the number of nurses is up, and the number of radiographers and radiologists is up since 2010. We have continued to grow our NHS workforce. Do we need to continue to do more to do that? Of course we do. That is why the Government are committed to, for example, the 50,000 more nurses that was a manifesto commitment, and we are on course to deliver that by the end of this Parliament.

We need to be conscious, and I know that the shadow Minister is, that as we talk, for example, about elective recovery and getting waiting lists and waiting times down, we need to be honest with our electors and the British public that that is a huge job that will take time. That is because the workforce who will deliver those things are the same workforce who have been through the pandemic, and they need time to recover, emotionally and physically, from what they have had to do over the past year and a half. Often, we hear some commentators saying, “Ah, yes, but some were in the ICU wards, or in A&E, and a lot of others wouldn’t have been on the frontline.” Well, the reality is that, for example, surgeons who may not have been operating on their usual lists will have gone back to the wards to assist their colleagues, and we know that a team is needed to perform surgery. The anaesthetists will certainly have been working flat out during the pandemic, as will the theatre nurses, so we need to ensure, as we deliver our recovery plan for the NHS, that we give the workforce the support they need to recover.

Let me turn to the specifics of the programme. My hon. Friends the Members for Crewe and Nantwich, for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) and for Eddisbury (Edward Timpson), and the hon. Member for Weaver Vale all made, as one would expect, a passionate, well-informed and cogent case for investment in a new hospital at Leighton. My hon. Friend the Member for Crewe and Nantwich will not be surprised when I say that the expressions of interest period has closed. The expressions of interest are all being considered carefully and a decision will be made next spring on the long list to whittle them down, with further work to determine the final eight. I therefore hope that he will allow me not to be drawn on the specifics of the merits or otherwise of his case while that process is under way, but as ever he makes a strong and powerful case on behalf of his constituents.

In the context of the next eight, the shadow Minister asked about criteria and how the process would take place. That is set out and published on the programme website, but the key considerations are these. Does a scheme or proposal have the potential significantly to transform and improve the quality and quantity of care available to a community? Is there a safety or other pressing need that has to be addressed in the system? Equally, we will be looking to achieve a degree of geographical spread to ensure equity and fairness—levelling up. With any of these schemes, as hon. Members would expect, we will look at whether the proposals are clear and can be delivered on budget, and whether there is the capacity and capability to deliver on them.

[Mike Amesbury]

One such scheme, for which I and my hon. Friends the Members for Warrington North (Charlotte Nichols) and for Halton (Derek Twigg) and the hon. Member for Warrington South (Andy Carter) have been campaigning, is two campuses for Warrington and Halton trust. They seem to meet those criteria, so I look forward to an assessment and conclusion in the not too distant future.

[Edward Argar]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, who quite rightly never misses an opportunity to champion his constituents’ interests.

Hon. Members will be aware that the interest around the country is significant. A significant number of expressions of interest have been submitted, so whittling them down will be a competitive and challenging process, but we undertake to be as clear and transparent about that as we can be. I suspect that, when the final list is announced, if I do not come to the House with a statement, the shadow Minister may well UQ me, to give colleagues an opportunity to say they are very pleased or to ask why their hospital is not on the list.

Let me turn to points made by other hon. and right hon. Members. My right hon. Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead (Sir Mike Penning) will not be surprised that I will not be drawn on the specifics of the internal politics and the plans for his trust at this point. However, he quite rightly made the extremely important point that when trusts develop their plans and bring them forward, they need to carry the communities they serve with them and genuinely reflect on stakeholder input from elected Members and others, rather than—I am not saying that this is or is not the case with this trust—automatically having a preconceived idea of what the right answer is.

[Sir Mike Penning]

rose—

[Edward Argar]

I may regret this, but I give way to my right hon. Friend.

[Sir Mike Penning]

The Minister might not be willing to say that my trust has preconceived the decisions it was going to make; I will, because it made its mind up long before the latest announcement. However, we are in a slightly different position from other colleagues here. We are in HIP 1—part 1 of the health infrastructure plan—and we do not want that money to be wasted. We do not want a sticking plaster; we do not want a refurbishment in the middle of Watford. The community in my part of the world is absolutely solid on that, and if that meant that we slipped out of HIP 1 into HIP 2—I will put my neck on the block—I would be happy with that, as long as we get the right facility on a greenfield site, rather than the wrong facility as a refurbishment in the middle of Watford next to a football ground.

[Edward Argar]

I did not regret giving way to my right hon. Friend quite as much as I feared I might, although he may yet come back to me. As ever, he makes his point powerfully and clearly, and I suspect that, as well as my having heard it, his trust will also have heard it.

As the shadow Minister said, my hon. Friend the Member for Hartlepool (Jill Mortimer) made broader points, in addition to points about her local hospital and trust, about health inequalities and the role that the right infrastructure and staff—the right people in the right place—can play in tackling that. I have to pay tribute to her. Within a day of her arriving in this place following her fantastic by-election victory, she had pinned me down so she could come and see me and talk about Hartlepool and health services there. Her constituents are extremely lucky to have her. She hit the ground running and has not stopped working since on behalf of her constituents.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke and I, as she alluded to, have spoken a number of times about her trust. How can I not accept her kind offer of going to the site and seeing her in her constituency? I have known her for a long time, so it is a pleasure to say yes. I would like to go there and do that, then perhaps we can discuss the plans further. She and I have met on several occasions. She is a great champion for the new hospital in her area, so I am grateful for the invitation.

My hon. Friend the Member for Keighley—I almost said “my hon. Friend the Member for Airedale”, given the frequency with which, he raises and champions in the House at every opportunity the need for a new hospital at Airedale—is right to highlight the challenges that his trust faces, as he has done on many occasions, particularly in the context not only of the needs of his population, the challenges of an old building that has long exceeded its intended lifetime, but also the RAAC plank issue. I know that his trust is keen to be one of the eight. I will only say to him, I am afraid, what I said to my hon. Friend the Member for Crewe and Nantwich, which is that the bids will be considered very carefully. I know that he will continue making the case, as he has done in the past.

[Robbie Moore]

Will the Minister give way?

[Edward Argar]

I will give way briefly to my hon. Friend, then I will turn to the contribution of my hon. Friend the Member for North West Norfolk (James Wild).

[Robbie Moore]

Can the Minister clarify how the final eight will be decided and will structural risk profile be a key consideration?

[Edward Argar]

My hon. Friend, quite wisely, presses his advantage. I can give him some reassurance on that, as I did to the shadow Minister when talking about the criteria, that safety and risk will not be the only criterion, but that will be a key factor in the consideration.

I turn now to the contribution of my hon. Friend the Member for North West Norfolk. The other day in the Chamber, I inadvertently paid tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for North Norfolk (Duncan Baker) for the work being done by my hon. Friend the Member for North West Norfolk in one of my responses. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend for North West Norfolk, who has quite rightly raised with me on several occasions the Queen Elizabeth Hospital King’s Lynn and the challenges posed by RAAC planks there. I know he is campaigning both in Parliament and locally on that issue. Courtesy of him, I have met his trust in the past and we have provided more than £20 million in this financial year for critical risk remediation. I know that, quite understandably, my hon. Friend is saying very clearly that that is welcome and will help, but it will not solve the problem. He will continue to press the case for a new hospital. He, too, has kindly invited me to his constituency, so I think I am due to go on tour around the country at some point, visiting various hospitals and colleagues.

Turning to some of the broader underlying themes that have emerged in the debate, I will seek to answer some of the questions posed by the shadow Minister. He gently tempted me on definitions. I am clear that the definitions we have—the three key elements he alluded to—not only pass the common-sense test and the understanding of what the reasonable person in the street would consider a new hospital. Equally, he teased me gently about VAT notice 708. I mentioned that at the Dispatch Box because—he says that we should be transparent and have a logical reason for how we define, do and choose things—our starting point was that there can be a VAT exemption for new builds, but not necessarily for refurbishment. I took that as a starting point for developing the common-sense definition. A lot of what he sees in the definitions is reflected in the same one used there, so there is consistency.

The shadow Minister talked about skills and inflation and whether we will have the people to build the hospitals. He is right to do that, because, as we have seen following the bounce back after the pandemic, builders and construction firms are very much in demand. There is pressure on materials as well, not just inflationary pressure, but on quantities. That is one of the reasons why, even before the impact of the pandemic, this is a phased programme. These hospitals will be built over a period of years up to 2030, allowing for market capacity.

Equally, one of the reasons why we have set out this long-term plan is so that we can make the market aware of what our plans are. If there is certainty in the market that the hospitals will be coming through, we will see firms investing, because they know there is potential for long-term business and work for them. That is one of the ways in which we have helped to handle that.

The shadow Minister asked about funding, and what would be available for what period. He will be aware of the initial £3.7 billion that has been allocated to this project, which takes us to 2024. Future funding will be subject to future spending reviews for that period. Between the 2024 period and 2030 there will be a general election at some point, and I suspect that may play a part in the spending review as well. We have the funding up front to get going with this programme, and off the top of my head, I think we already have eight hospitals in construction. The Cumberland Cancer Hospital has already been opened by my right hon. Friend the Health Secretary. Over this period, we will continue to start further construction of new hospitals.

The shadow Minister also alluded to geography and the distribution of the hospitals. Off the top of my head, 30 of the 40 are outside London and the south east, so we have sought to achieve geographical spread for the new hospitals and, equally, will seek to do that with the new eight. He also asked about the quantum needed for a new hospital, and he had a particular figure in mind. If he looks at the list of 40, many of them are very different hospitals, from the major acute district general hospital to a community hospital with in-patient beds; it is clearly a new hospital. The costs vary in the nature of what is built, its scale and size.

The shadow Minister also asked whether there would be a cap and whether trusts have complete freedom. No—as he would expect, there is a balance is to be struck between delivering what a trust wants for its plans and the need for financial prudence and recognition of the need to safeguard taxpayers’ money; it is not a limitless amount. Conversations are going on between the national team and local projects to ensure that their schemes are affordable and not hugely over budget. That is a pragmatic, ongoing process.

The shadow Minister also touched on some of the criteria for the scheme and how we are making the national scheme work. We include in this modular build modern methods of construction. We have a national set of standards for what we would expect from a new hospital, but a degree of local flexibility for the delivery of that. We recognise that each trust is slightly different, but we want to standardise where we can, because that keeps costs down and provides certainty in the market and speeds up construction. We have also built into our plans, since they were originally announced, even more ambitious green targets and energy efficiency targets for those trusts.

[Justin Madders]

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. He has made a valiant attempt to answer all my questions.

[Edward Argar]

I thought the hon. Gentleman would lob another one at me.

[Justin Madders]

No, but there is one that the Minister has overlooked, on the sum announced in the spending review last week. Was that additional money on top of what had been previously announced?

[Edward Argar]

I omitted to mention two things to the shadow Minister: the spending review and backlog maintenance—he always avails himself of the opportunity to gently raise that issue. We have seen a confirmation of the money already in place for the new hospital programme, but we have also seen further moneys announced for capital in the spending review—new money—for example, just over £5 billion for community diagnostic centres, surgical hubs and the IT infrastructure around that. We have therefore seen a reconfirmation of money, plus new money in the capital space.

I turn now to maintenance, which the shadow Minister rightly always highlights. He will know—he occasionally quotes it at me at the Dispatch Box—that backlog maintenance across the entire estate is around £9 billion-worth. That is pretty constant from the previous financial year; it has not particularly increased. It may have gone up by a tiny fraction, but it has remained broadly constant.

[Mrs Miller]

rose—

[Mike Amesbury]

rose—

[Edward Argar]

Let me just finish this point before I take interventions from my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke and then the hon. Member for Weaver Vale.

Our investment in new hospitals will also significantly reduce the backlog maintenance, because it will take out of the total a number of hospitals, some of which have been mentioned, that are being propped up day after day, with money being spent just to patch up and mend.

[Mrs Miller]

I thank the Minister for agreeing to come to our new preferred site in Basingstoke—we will be grateful for that—and for his comment about backlog maintenance. I think Basingstoke is in the top three in the country for backlog maintenance.

May I press the Minister on the timelines of the next round of seed funding to develop business cases and to be able to start building our new hospital in 2025? Clarity on some of these timelines is essential not only for our communities but for the people developing the plans, because they need to know what will happen next and have clarity on that.

[Edward Argar]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend, and I entirely understand her call for clarity. Each case is being looked at on an individual basis, in the allocation of the £3.7 billion. The senior responsible officer of the new hospitals programme, Natalie Forrest, is in regular discussion with each trust, but business cases, more funding to develop business cases, and movement from outline business cases to final business cases are done on a case-by-case basis by trusts. It is not the case that every one must submit them by a fixed time.

[Mrs Miller]

rose—

[Edward Argar]

Let me take the hon. Member for Weaver Vale first, because I promised him that I would give way. I also want to leave a few minutes at the end for my hon. Friend the Member for Crewe and Nantwich to wind up.

[Mike Amesbury]

On the point about maintenance, several hospital buildings built in the 1970s have used Grenfell-style aluminium composite material cladding and high pressure laminate, so I assume that is part of the assessment criteria. Some have roof systems that are in a critical state.

[Edward Argar]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, who raises a couple of points. Yes, roofs are a factor. In some cases—my hon. Friend the Member for Keighley talked about Airedale—there is a flat roof, which is vulnerable to heat and water, and aerated concrete planks, which is extremely challenging.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned cladding. I might be slightly out, but from memory I think that there are no hospitals with cladding in need of remediation. We put a programme in place following the Grenfell findings. Off the top of my head, I think every hospital trust has either had it removed or been assessed by the fire brigade as not having a risk. If I am wrong about that, I will of course write to him to correct the record.

[Sir Mike Penning]

On the point the Minister has just made, Natalie Forrest has taken on her new role. I notice that the Minister said she has been in communication with the trusts, but she has not been in communication with the MPs who have emailed her and asked her to respond to them, including me. My hospital action group and I met her predecessor and had very fruitful discussions, and Natalie Forrest would be very welcome to have a discussion with me.

[Edward Argar]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend. Understandably, the approach we take with right hon. and hon. Members is that correspondence is replied to by Ministers. Occasionally it is a little belated, but that is the conduit for responses.

On meetings with senior officials, I am always happy to facilitate that. Normally, the approach is that I would attend as the Minister in order to reflect the respect that I have for right hon. and hon. Members—and I suspect that he may be about to ask me whether I will therefore do that.

[Sir Mike Penning]

The Minister is being very generous in giving way again. Yes, that would be great. However, I did meet Natalie Forrest’s predecessor without a Minister present, and I just want an email back to say, “I acknowledge you.” That might be quite nice.

[Edward Argar]

I suspect that the Department will have heard my right hon. Friend’s point.

[Mrs Miller]

Will the Minister give way?

[Edward Argar]

Very briefly, because I want to leave some time for my hon. Friend the Member for Crewe and Nantwich.

[Mrs Miller]

This is really important. What the Minister has just said is that no part of the process should be held up because certain projects might be ahead of others. Therefore, the public consultation that stands ready to go live in Basingstoke should not be delayed for any reason other than hopefully getting ministerial approval.

[Edward Argar]

I take the point, and I think I understand where my right hon. Friend is coming from on this. I said that business cases will be considered on their own merits, but of course there has to be phasing of different trusts at different times and different phases of this programme, because of the profiling of that funding. Only £3.7 billion has been committed so far, with more to come in further spending reviews, so if every trust came forward and said, “We are ready”—as my right hon. Friend knows, many will do so, although I suspect she would say that her trust is genuinely ready compared with some others—we could not commit to every one of those, because we have to look at the financial profiling that the Treasury has given us about when that money becomes available. That is the point. I hope she will forgive me if I did not understand what she was getting at in the first instance, but I hope that is of some help.

I will conclude, in order to leave my hon. Friend the Member for Crewe and Nantwich a little time to wind up. As a Government, we are proud that we have committed to arguably the largest and most ambitious new hospital building programme in decades, with initial moneys of £3.7 billion put in place to get that programme going. Eight of those new hospitals are in construction and one is completed, and we look forward to delivering on that commitment in full by 2030.

[Dr Mullan]

I thank the Minister and the Opposition spokesperson, the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Justin Madders), for the time they have taken to listen to us all in Westminster Hall today. I particularly thank the Minister for his openness and frankness in discussing this issue. I am sure that, as Members, we all understand why he cannot commit today to the various programmes we have put forward.

I particularly thank my hon. Friends the Members for Eddisbury (Edward Timpson) and for Congleton (Fiona Bruce), who have worked very closely with me on pushing forward this campaign for Leighton Hospital. I also thank the hon. Member for Weaver Vale (Mike Amesbury) for showing cross-party support for Leighton. The contribution from my right hon. Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead (Sir Mike Penning) reminded us all of what a unique role an MP plays in their constituency, having that individual voice on behalf of their constituents. My hon. Friends the Members for North West Norfolk (James Wild), for Hartlepool (Jill Mortimer) and for Keighley (Robbie Moore) and my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Mrs Miller) all spoke powerfully and passionately about their commitment to their local hospital and the investment they are seeking.

There were a couple of common themes that I want to pick out, the first of which was about house building and population growth, which touches on work I have been doing in my constituency to address the postcode lottery when it comes to the voice of the NHS in the planning system. Very often, schools’ education provision is supported by housing development, but it is not very often that our local hospitals are supported financially by developers. Those developers have a role to play, and I encourage the Minister to look at what more he could do centrally to spread best practice. I have been doing that locally, but we need that central drive to make sure that hospital developments, mental health and primary care get the money they deserve where there is new housing.

We are all facing a similar challenge when it comes to the shelf life, so to speak, of our hospital buildings. There is no shame in that—when things are built, they have a timeline—but it is very important that the Minister makes sure that for those of us who may end up disappointed, particularly in relation to the RAAC plank issue, the Government have a clear and strong story about how they are going to tackle that issue and what investment will be put in place, regardless of which hospitals make it into the final round of the hospital building programme. I will finish by inviting the Minister to Leighton Hospital, if he does not mind,

[Edward Argar]

What is one more visit on a tour? I am delighted to accept; it would be a pleasure.

[Dr Mullan]

I look forward to seeing him there with my hon. Friends the Members for Eddisbury and for Congleton. I thank the Minister for his time, and thank you, Mr Sharma, for chairing proceedings today.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered the hospital building programme.

Health and Care Bill (Twenty Second sitting)

Edward Argar Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 2nd November 2021 Public Bill Committees

[Alex Norris (Nottingham North) (Lab/Co-op)]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

I have heard about the fastest gun in the west; I think you might be the fastest-moving Chair in the west midlands, Mr McCabe. Turning to the substance of the new clause, covid-19 has shown the value of public health programmes in building this country’s resilience and improving public health outcomes, yet there is no duty in the Bill on NHS England to promote such public health programmes to integrated care boards or to evaluate their impact. New clause 58 seeks to change that.

During proceedings over the past couple of months, I have highlighted on multiple occasions the damage caused by the short-sighted health cuts we have seen over the previous 11 years, so colleagues will be relieved to hear that I am not going to repeat those points. However, we should be looking to do better now and to use this Bill as a watershed moment. As the Association of Directors of Public Health noted when the White Paper was published, there is a limited focus in the Bill on the health inequalities that have been exposed and exacerbated by covid-19 and, again, this new clause seeks to improve that situation. With the changes to Public Health England and the announcement of the new Office for Health Improvement and Disparities, it is vital that the Government make a belated recommitment to public health and prevention.

There are a number of ways in which that commitment could be manifested. Public health programmes are particularly crucial to the prevention agenda, and it is right that NHS England promotes the value of those programmes, looks at them, assesses them and reports on their impact. To draw on one example that is linked to an item we will be discussing later—dental services—community dental services and oral health public health programmes have shown that significant savings and significant improvements in individuals’ lives can be generated through effective, evidence-based public health programmes. Social enterprises such as those can bring a number of additional benefits. They exist not to make a profit but to deliver on a social mission and to reinvest any surplus in improving local services.

That is what the public health grant traditionally funded. When I first had responsibility for the public health grant in 2014, 85% of that money went into commissioned services. That funding will have been diluted by the cuts in recent years, but largely that money went to community-based, not-for-profit, evidence-based schemes. Public health programmes really improved our communities, but we have lost them, and that is a sadness. We need to recommit to them and have a real focus on getting integrated care systems to commit to them, demonstrating what works in one part of the country and promoting it across the rest of the country. That is what this new clause seeks to achieve.

[The Minister for Health (Edward Argar)]

Mr McCabe, it is a particular pleasure to see you in the Chair this morning, allowing us to get going.

I very much welcome the opportunity to debate and put on record again the Government’s commitment to improving and protecting the public’s health and to supporting evidence-based interventions. Like the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Nottingham North, I can think of no better example than the remarkable speed of this country’s roll-out of covid vaccinations and the response to the pandemic, saving lives and supporting our economic recovery. That, of course, is testament to the hard work and dedication of our NHS and public health professionals in rising to the greatest infectious disease challenge of modern times.

Our commitment to evidence-based public health is also writ large in many of the Bill’s provisions, our wider programme of public health reform and the proposals set out in the Government’s recently published plan for health and care, “Build Back Better”. We made it clear in that document that although the Government’s immediate priorities for the NHS must be dealing with covid and recovering from the elective backlog, the long-term priority is to shift the NHS towards prevention. Prevention must be a central principle in delivering a sustainable NHS and levelling up. That means fixing the underlying causes of ill health, which is at the heart of the mission of the new Office for Health Improvement and Disparities and the new UK Health Security Agency.

As new clause 58 hints at, a focus on prevention, coupled with a strategic approach to population health more generally, will also be at the heart of integrated care systems. The new triple aim will bind NHS bodies to consider wider effects on health and wellbeing, alongside a duty to reduce inequalities in access and outcomes. Integrated care boards will be required to seek advice from persons with a broad range of professional expertise on public health and prevention, complementing the role, already set out in regulations, of local government and directors of public health to provide advice. Moreover, each integrated care partnership’s strategy will be clearly rooted in, and draw extensively on, local place-based joint strategic needs assessments so that real needs and priorities can be addressed at local level. The ICB’s plans must have regard to that strategy.

I entirely concur with the shadow Minister that evidence-based public health practice is always desirable, and a learning culture essential, but the Government do not see the need for a specific legal duty on NHS England to promote that to ICBs—as envisaged by the new clause—although it undoubtedly will have a role in exhorting and supporting them to their best efforts. The Office for Health Improvement and Disparities and the UK Health Security Agency will also have an important role in this regard, and the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence will continue to issue evidence-based guidance on public health topics referred to it.

There is already a broad obligation on NHS England and NHS Improvement to promote continuous improvement in the quality of services provided across the NHS and, in doing so, to have regard to evidence-based public health quality standards. That includes having regard to quality standards prepared by NICE.

It follows from the rejection of the first limb of the new clause that the Government cannot support the second. However, as set out in “Build Back Better” the Government will bring forward separately from the Bill a new requirement for NHS England

“to introduce a yearly prevention spend, outcome and trajectory reporting criteria, including an assessment of the 10-year spend and outcome trajectories…of the major preventable diseases such as diabetes.”

It may not, but I hope that that goes some way towards meeting the intent behind the shadow Minister’s new clause.

There is a somewhat different matter where public health programmes are commissioned directly by the NHS itself, in exercise of the Secretary of State’s public health functions. That is the case with, for example, national screening or immunisation programmes. These programmes are currently commissioned by NHS England but are rooted in expert advice from the UK National Screening Committee and the Joint Committee on Vaccinations and Immunisations respectively. NHS England is already prepared to report to the Secretary of State on its performance against these functions.

Were any of these functions to be delegated to ICBs to deliver in future, we would expect NHS England to clearly convey the requisite standards and performance expectations for those evidence-based programmes, and overall information about performance and effectiveness will be provided to the public.

In summary, there is a good deal of unity of aim and objective, but I fear there is a difference as regards methods. On that basis, I encourage the shadow Minister not to press the new clause to a Division.

[Alex Norris]

I share with the Minister the desire for a shift to prevention. My anxiety, from the Government action we have seen over the last decade, is that that is a rhetorical shift rather than a substantial shift in policy, and definitely not a substantial shift in resourcing. Nevertheless, the Minister’s answer on the documentation that NHS England will be asked to publish is a suitable substitute for a provision being on the face of the Bill. On that basis, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the clause.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

New Clause 63

Young carers’ needs assessments following hospitalisation

“In the Children Act 1989, after section 17ZC, insert—

‘17ZCA Young carers’ needs assessments following hospitalisation

(1) An NHS trust or NHS foundation trust must ascertain during hospitalisation whether a patient when discharged will be cared for primarily by a young carer.

(2) Where an NHS trust or NHS foundation trust ascertains that a patient when discharged will be cared for primarily by a young carer then the NHS trust or NHS foundation trust must give the local authority where the patient lives notice that a young carer will require a needs assessment.

(3) The local authority receiving notice under subsection (2) must carry out a needs assessment, and in doing so must—

(a) ascertain whether it is appropriate for the young carer to provide care, and

(b) identify what support or services need to be in place for safe discharge of the patient.

(4) The needs assessment required by subsection (3) must be conducted before the patient is discharged.’”—(Karin Smyth.)

This new clause would ensure that the needs of young carers are assessed before a patient who they care for can be discharged.

Brought up, and read the First time.

--- Later in debate ---

The new clause would not, of course, resolve all the issues with support for carers and young carers, but it would go some way to plugging a known gap and making sure that there is an opportunity for young carers to be identified in a systemic way that ensures support is delivered.

[Edward Argar]

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair this morning, Mr Bone. The new clause would introduce a requirement for an NHS body to notify the relevant local authority once it had identified that a young carer had primary responsibility for caring for a patient on discharge. The local authority would be required to carry out a young carer’s needs assessment before discharge to establish the appropriateness of the young carer providing care and what support should be in place to enable safe discharge.

I entirely understand the sentiment and intention behind the new clause, which the shadow Minister and the hon. Member for Bristol South set out very clearly. We have touched on the importance of this issue in previous debates about carers. Young carers often do not even realise that they are carers. They undertake their caring responsibilities, go to school, come back again and undertake caring responsibilities again. They are arguably some of those most in need of support and identification. These young people are essentially having caring responsibilities for a loved one, family member or friend thrust on to their shoulders at a very early age. However, I am not convinced that the cause is best advanced by the new clause and I will try to explain why. In her response, the hon. Member for Bristol South may agree or say she is unconvinced by my explanation, as is her right.

Existing legislation already requires local authorities to carry out an assessment of need for all young carers on request or on the appearance of need. That assessment must consider whether it is appropriate or excessive for the young carer to provide care for the person in question, in the light of the young carer’s needs, wishes and circumstances. Regulations already provide a detailed framework, including the matters to be considered in such assessments and the skills of the person undertaking it.

As members of the Committee will be aware, the discharge clause in the Bill, which we debated some days ago, revokes the existing requirements for hospitals to issue assessment and discharge notices as part of the discharge process for adults, because they contribute to lengthy discharge delays. The current requirements trigger local authority duties to assess the person’s long-term social care needs, prior to the person’s discharge. We know delayed discharges have a negative impact on patient outcomes.

My concern about the wording of the new clause is that making young carers’ assessments a requirement of discharge would risk reimposing further significant delays, at a time when supporting the safe hospital flow of patients has never been more important. I am also unclear how such an assessment system would be enforced.

Current discharge guidance clearly sets out that, as part of discharge planning, consideration must be given to any young people in the household who have caring responsibilities or may have some on discharge. Guidance states that they may be entitled to a young carer’s needs assessment or to benefit from a referral to a young carers service.

We will work with the Department for Education to ensure that protections for young carers are reflected in new statutory discharge guidance, accepting the sentiment behind the new clause. That will include setting out as part of the discharge planning process how young carers should have a needs assessment arranged, where appropriate, before a patient for whom they provide care is discharged. That is the more appropriate way to capture or operationalise, for want of a better way to put it, the sentiment behind the hon. Lady’s new clause. It is up to her whether she feels that that is sufficient, but I have set out our response to the new clause she proposes.

[Karin Smyth]

The Minister will not be surprised to hear that I do not think that is sufficient. I will not press the matter to a vote, but, as my hon. Friend the Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston said, when it comes to things being on request it is problematic, and that is the crux of the matter, as in the guidance that the Minister read out. I understand the need for hospitals to not have lengthy discharges—and it is not good for the patient—but sorting out the hospital’s problem on the backs of young people and carers is not a good message that we want to send from here.

I appreciate that the Minister in his final comments said that this would be very much part of the thinking about discharges, but we should also remember that these young people have really had the most shocking experiences in the last two years with covid, and are already—again, as my hon. Friend said—falling massively behind. Added to the destruction from covid, many young carers live in some of the most disadvantaged families, really keeping those families together, so they are further left behind.

On the Minister’s exhortations to the service and local government, it would be helpful to further underline the strength of those, and I am sure that most of the Committee feel that. Young carers have had probably the worst of times during covid and for them now to have to shoulder more responsibility because of the discharge problem and the need to get people out quickly would further exacerbate the situation. They need more help, not less, and I hope that that will be communicated back to the service. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the clause.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

New Clause 65

Review of the surgical consultant appointment process

“The Secretary of State must review the National Health Service (Appointment of Consultants) Regulations 1996 and its most recent guidance and, within six months of the passage of this Act, publish a report on the surgical consultant appointment process.”—(Justin Madders.)

This new clause requires a review of the legislation which governs the NHS surgical consultant appointment process.

Brought up, and read the First time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Philippa Whitford (Central Ayrshire) (SNP)]

I rise to speak to new clause 70 and in support of new clause 65. I agree with the shadow Minister that these are very much technical new clauses to correct an anomaly. There are three royal colleges of surgeons in the UK: the Royal College of Surgeons of England, the Royal College of Surgeons of Edinburgh and the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Glasgow. Consultant surgeons may be appointed from among the fellows of any of the three colleges. The exams they sit and the qualifications they carry are considered absolutely equal.

The challenge when recruiting a new consultant, as the shadow Minister highlighted, is that the appointment panel, which must review the job description and take part in the interview, is limited purely to those who have graduated with their fellowship from the English college. The appointment panels have a mix of representatives from local organisations, specialty bodies, if it is a specialty surgical appointment, and the royal colleges, so while fellows of all the royal colleges may be involved in appointments to English trusts as specialty representatives—such as breast cancer, which was my specialty—some are excluded from being college representatives. It is often really challenging to bring these panels and committees together.

The aim of the new clause is simply to widen the pool of assessors available to trusts in England and, indeed, as the shadow Minister highlighted, to foundation trusts. It is simply an anomaly that two of the colleges in the UK are not included. The new clause aims to correct that and to make the appointment of new consultants easier for trusts and foundation trusts in England. I hope that the Minister will accept both the spirit and the detail of new clause 70.

[Edward Argar]

I am grateful to hon. Members for bringing this issue before the Committee: I think we have all received correspondence on it from the various royal colleges. New clause 65 would amend the Bill so as to require that a review is undertaken of the National Health Service (Appointment of Consultants) Regulations 1996 and its most recent guidance. It is important that the regulations governing consultants and the accompanying guidance ensure that prospective consultants are highly capable and safe to practise while not hindering effective recruitment.

The current regulations govern the appointment of all consultants to NHS trusts and special health authorities. Reviewing the regulations only in relation to surgeons would risk diminishing consistency in the regulations. We believe the current regulations ensure consistent standards across all specialties. Those regulations are kept under review, and we therefore do not believe that this new clause would improve what already exists under the current policy. Similarly, responsibility for reporting on recruitment practices relating to a specific specialty would fall to the royal colleges rather than the Department. Should the royal colleges recognise an issue with recruitment and appointment to a particular specialty, the Department would expect the relevant royal college to report on that, which we would always consider in detail.

New clause 70, tabled by the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire, would amend the National Health Service (Appointment of Consultants) Regulations 1996 to confer authority on the Royal College of Surgeons of Edinburgh, the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Glasgow and each of their associated dental faculties to sit on the panel concerned with the appointment of consultants in England. I sympathise with that. The Government agree that including those colleges would potentially be significantly advantageous. However, the challenge is that the National Health Service Act 2006 stipulates that consultation with affected parties must be undertaken before any changes to these regulations can be made. As such, our concern is timing: it would go against normal practice and not necessarily be appropriate to make such a change without consulting the relevant parties.

[Dr Whitford]

I have no objection to the need to consult. The Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Glasgow would indeed like section 2(1) of the regulations changed so that its members could be involved in the appointment of consultant physicians. I was unable to consult with the Royal College of Physicians of Edinburgh in time to allow the new clause to include that. I totally recognise that there is a role for consultation in order to get the change to those regulations right. However, surely with such legislation going through, this is the opportunity to agree to correct this anomaly, and therefore make appointments of new consultants in English trusts simpler.

[Edward Argar]

I think that is where the hon. Lady and I slightly diverge; we do believe that it is right that we follow the normal process of consultation before bringing any changes forward. I hope, in my final paragraphs, I can give her a little reassurance in respect to her intent. I hope that I can reassure her that, although the Royal College of Surgeons of Edinburgh and the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Glasgow are not formally named in the regulations as relevant colleges in relation to the appointment process, the regulations do not prevent trusts from seeking alternative members to contribute to the process. That does provide discretion to involve these colleges where appropriate.

My further reassurance, which I hope will go some way towards satisfying the hon. Lady, is that the letters and requests came in relatively late in the Committee’s proceedings: I will undertake to review that request with my officials. I will look at whether what we have already got is sufficient, or whether there is merit there that does not require that consultation and those changes—

[Dr Whitford]

rose—

[Edward Argar]

I have one sentence to go, so the hon. Lady gets in just in time.

[Dr Whitford]

A trust could include other members of the panel, but they could not be recognised as the Royal College representative. That is often one of the challenging roles, because the panel cannot go ahead if it does not have a Royal College representative.

[Edward Argar]

I hope I can reassure the hon. Lady that in respect of the specific request that the two Royal Colleges have made, I will take that away, look at it and consider whether it works now, or whether there is something we can do. That will be either in this legislation, or following consultation, via another mechanism to address the underlying issue that they have drawn to our attention.

[The Chair]

I call Dr Justin Madders.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alex Norris]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

This new clause would put responsibility on integrated care boards to take the lead on tackling malnutrition in their community. We spoke about malnutrition in the context of hospital food standards, and we were not able to move the Minister to extend those hospital food standards to other care settings. I thought that was a shame, and I hope the Government will continue to look at the issue. I want to broaden the conversation on malnutrition to try, via another way, to improve the standing of our communities.

Malnutrition is a serious condition that occurs when a person does not get the energy or vitamins that their body requires to function properly. It affects at least 3 million people every year, and it costs the health and social care system £23.5 billion each year. The condition is particularly common amongst certain groups. Those groups are: older people; hospital patients; people in mental health units and care homes; people living in sheltered housing; and those living with chronic diseases, such as cancer. Malnutrition can seriously threaten patients’ health. Hospitalised malnourished patients are three times more at risk of infection than the well-nourished, while hospital patients at high risk of malnutrition are 12 times more likely to die early than those at no risk. It is a very significant issue. Unfortunately, the figures are not moving in the right direction. The number of adults being admitted to hospital with malnutrition has more than doubled in the last decade—that is the bill for austerity. The evidence is clear that malnutrition impacts a wide range of people in different health settings; again, those are hospitals, mental health units, care homes and sheltered housing. It has a knock-on effect on other conditions.

Earlier this year, the media reported the death of a young disabled woman after a routine operation. Her death was partially caused by malnutrition, and the coroner said there had been a gross failure of care in managing her nutrition. A July 2021 report on malnutrition called it a widespread yet historically overlooked and undertreated issue in the NHS and social care, and attributed that to two factors that block progress—a lack of understanding, and a lack of systematic leadership. The new clause seeks to address that at a local level, which is why we think it is a good one.

The tragic case that I have mentioned shows how important it is to have a clear strategy to tackle malnutrition, to have designated leads and to have targets and co-ordinated policy. The Government say that integrated care boards are about ensuring proper integration between health staff and community services, and this is a really good example of a way in which that could be done. I am keen to hear the Minister’s assessment of the new clause, which should be included in the Bill. We have a significant issue that we are not addressing and that is getting worse, so what are we going to do differently?

[Edward Argar]

We recognise and know that malnutrition can be a significant problem that can be both a cause and a consequence of ill health. We remain committed to improving the NHS and public health systems, which is helping to improve health and secure early diagnosis of major diseases, tackling some of the root causes of malnutrition. That is backed by the development of the outcomes frameworks covering public health, the NHS and social care, and the development of specific disease outcome strategies.

Individuals, carers and professionals all have a role to play in tackling malnutrition, and there are tools and guidance in place through a range of organisations to help health and social care professionals identify and treat the problem of malnutrition, and to access appropriate training. I note that e-learning modules are currently in place through the Royal College of General Practitioners and the managing adult malnutrition in the community pathway, which was set up by a multidisciplinary group and is widely endorsed by professional bodies aimed at healthcare professionals.

I hope I speak for the whole Committee when I say that we all agree that the NHS can play a vital role in protecting vulnerable people. As part of that, it should have strategies and processes in place for supporting patients and vulnerable people in the community who are at risk of malnutrition. I hope I can reassure the Committee that placing in the Bill a formal duty on ICBs to develop a separate strategy is not strictly necessary, as there is a range of ongoing activity across health and care.

As we have previously discussed, there are already significant existing duties, and duties proposed in the Bill, to prepare plans, including joint local health and wellbeing strategies made at a local authority level by health and wellbeing boards, the integrated care strategy that is to be developed by the integrated care partnership, and the forward plan that is to be developed by the integrated care board. All those plans should be informed by local joint strategic needs assessments, or JSNAs. All the strategies can, where appropriate, consider malnutrition and populations at risk of malnutrition. We have previously debated the range of guidance available to inform thinking on both JSNAs and strategic plans, and we will of course work with NHS England to consider whether it is necessary to include specific references to malnutrition in the guidance.

Should the Bill pass into statute, we expect clinical commissioning groups and ICBs to consider the needs of patients and vulnerable people in their communities, including people who may be at risk of malnutrition. That includes working across health and social care partners to undertake needs assessments on malnutrition, and developing and implementing a work plan to maintain high standards of nutrition through integrated pathways of care. NHSEI’s enhanced health in care homes implementation framework sets out best practice guidance for primary care networks and others in relation to hydration and nutritional support for care home residents. The framework supports the implementation of minimum standards in relation to enhanced health in care homes in the Network Contract Directed Enhanced Service for 2020-21.

The malnutrition task force has also published a series of guides offering expert advice on the prevention of and early intervention in malnutrition in later life, which will support health and care bodies. Alongside that, we have published an independent review of hospital food, which made recommendations for addressing malnutrition in hospitals, and a review of what works in supporting older people in the community to maintain a healthy diet. This “what works” review included a range of examples of good practice at local authority level that others can learn from, and we have provided in the Bill for powers to impose requirements on hospital food standards.

We are helping to raise awareness of malnutrition among individuals and carers through the nhs.uk website, and through the NICE quality standard on malnutrition, which gives a clear and authoritative statement of a quality service. There are ongoing inspection requirements, including for unannounced inspections of health and care settings by the Care Quality Commission, which will continue to ensure expected standards are met.

The new clause would place a requirement on ICBs to have a malnutrition lead. The Bill intentionally allows for flexibility in the make-up of ICBs above the minimum membership requirements that we have previously debated in Committee. They could, if they wished, include condition-specific officers, but we do not want to bind their hands by specifying that they must. That once again returns to the permissive versus prescriptive thread that has run through many of our debates.

However, I do see a huge opportunity for ICPs to consider how best to improve services for people at risk of malnutrition through better partnership and joint working and planning of services, given the complementary services that the NHS and local authorities offer in this context. The new Office for Health Improvement and Disparities is committed to improving the diet of the population and supporting people to maintain a healthy weight.

I hope I have given the Committee some reassurance that we are taking this issue extremely seriously and are committed to enabling the NHS and the wider health and care system to effectively tackle malnutrition.

[Alex Norris]

I was a little surprised to hear the Minister defend the status quo. The state of play in this country is not good enough and is getting worse, so I dare say that more of the same will beget more of the same. The Minister said that the new clause was not necessary because of the range of ongoing activity, but I reiterate that what is happening is not sufficient and is not addressing this really important issue.

The two areas for development that were offered were local prioritisation through integrated care strategies and the Office for Health Improvement and Disparities. They are obviously relatively new actors in this space, so it is probably right that we give them time to see whether, as the Minister says, they will prioritise this, choose to make it a top-rated issue and do something about it. I am very sceptical of that, and I suspect that we will be back at this sooner rather than later. However, in the meantime, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the clause.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

New Clause 67

Review of the capacity of the dental laboratory sector

“The Secretary of State must within six months of the passage of this Act publish a report assessing the capacity of the dental laboratory sector in the UK to meet the needs of patients.”—(Alex Norris.)

This new clause would require the Secretary of State to review the capacity of the UK’s dental laboratory sector.

Brought up, and read the First time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Whitford]

I rise to support new clause 68, which is linked to new clause 67. We are aware of the impact of the pandemic, particularly on dentistry. Using a drill on someone’s teeth generates aerosols in their mouth, and that would vastly increase the risk of spreading covid to the dental staff, or to any patient who entered the space soon afterwards. Despite that impact, there has not been significant funding from the UK Government for the dental industry in England to fund the establishment of ventilation and air purification systems. The Scottish Government have committed £5 million specifically for this. As the hon. Member for Nottingham North highlighted, the pandemic impact comes on top of an underlying issue, the core of which is the 2006 dental contract in England and Wales, which breaks provision down into units of dental activity. It does not reward preventive dentistry. It does not reward any practice for taking on someone who already has dental issues, because it will not be properly funded for that.

Out of that comes the failure to focus on child dental health and making sure that this generation of young children grow up with good dental health. Scotland set up Childsmile in 2007, and Wales set up Designed to Smile in 2011. There is plenty of data from both of these programmes to show that providing free dental treatment to children—along with supported tooth brushing at school, fluoride coating and so on—can decrease caries found in children in primary school and at the beginning of secondary school.

Poor dental health has a big impact on general health and self-confidence, yet we hear repeated reports of families and children struggling to access an NHS practice. In the last five years, NHS practice numbers in England have dropped by over 1,250. BDA surveys suggest that almost half of remaining NHS practices are planning to reduce their NHS commitment over the next 12 to 24 months. There was a promise that the contract would be changed by next April, and 100 practices have been trialling a new method of contract. According to the BDA, it has been warned of a return to using units of dental activity from next April. This would be an enormous missed opportunity to improve NHS dental access for everyone, and particularly to take the further step of ensuring that every child in England does not just have access to a dental practice, but is involved, as they grow up, in a programme promoting good dental health.

[Edward Argar]

As ever, I am grateful to hon. Members for highlighting issues relating to new clauses 67 and 68 for debate.

I reassure the Committee that the Government continually assess the capacity of the dental laboratory sector in the UK. It is an important issue, as was highlighted by the shadow Minister, and one we already take seriously. However, it is not necessary to include a specific report requirement, especially as that could focus activity away from addressing the recovery of activity in the sector.

As colleagues will know, and as the hon. Member for Nottingham North set out clearly, dentistry has been significantly impacted throughout the pandemic due to the specific risks associated with aerosol-generating procedures, as the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire set out. The steps we have had to take during the pandemic to ensure the safety of dental patients and staff has led to a reduction in the number of NHS patients who can be seen, although activity continues to grow quarter on quarter. This reduction in NHS dental activity, including for band 3 treatments such as crowns, bridges and dentures, has had a knock-on effect on the laboratory sector. The Government recognise this, and we are already taking steps to secure the capacity of the sector.

First, throughout the pandemic, dental laboratories, where eligible, have been able to access a range of financial support that Her Majesty’s Treasury has made available to private-sector businesses and individuals affected financially by covid-19. Dental laboratories that satisfied the eligibility criteria were able to access financial support through the coronavirus business interruption loan scheme and bounce back loans. In addition, up to September 2021, technicians and lab workers had been able to access the coronavirus job retention scheme, known colloquially as the furlough scheme. The recovery loan scheme, now open until 30 June 2022, supports access to finance for UK businesses as they recover from the pandemic.

During the pandemic, we carefully considered the impact on the sector, including on dental laboratories and their important role, partly through work led by the chief dental officer. We continue to work closely with all relevant parts of the sector. I am happy to confirm that officials from the Department, together with the chief dental officer and others, will be happy to again meet representatives from the dental laboratory sector to better understand their concerns on capacity, what they are seeing in terms of the recovery of their business and trade, and what further action may be needed as we work to recover from the pandemic and safely increase levels of dental activity, for patients, the profession and the industry surrounding it.

Secondly, we are committed to building and maintaining a robust dental workforce and appreciate the important role played by laboratory technicians as part of that. In September, Health Education England released their “Advancing Dental Care” review, which provides recommendations on the reform of education and training for dental care professionals, including dental technicians.

Although this is not directly in my portfolio of responsibilities, I have asked officials to work closely with HEE on the recommendations and actions of this report, including, where it falls into my area of work more broadly, how apprenticeship places for clinical dental technicians are developed, based on an assessment of the role they could play in the delivery of NHS care. The Government are therefore already taking action to help secure the capacity of the dental laboratory sector and ensure it continues to meet the needs of patients in this country.

I turn to new clause 68. It would require the Secretary of State to publish a statement on measures taken to ensure universal access to NHS dentistry. In addition to the actions I have highlighted, I assure the Committee that this Government are taking action to ensure access to NHS dentistry and, again, I do not consider it necessary to include a requirement to make a statement on this issue on the face of the Bill.

[Dr Whitford]

rose—

[Edward Argar]

I will give way to the hon. Lady—not least so that I can have a glass of water.

[Dr Whitford]

That is not the least of my reasons for intervening. Rather than just stating that the Government are taking action, does the Minister plan to explain what action they will be taking?

[Edward Argar]

The hon. Lady is psychic, because I was just turning to that.

[Dr Whitford]

I am only thinking of the Minister’s welfare.

[Edward Argar]

I am very touched by her medical concern for my welfare.

In light of the reduction in activity within dentistry due to the pandemic, dental practices have been asked to deliver as much care as possible, with their first priorities being urgent care, care for vulnerable groups and for children, and then delayed planned care. I put on the record my gratitude to the profession for its hard work and efforts during this time, and I am pleased to note that the levels of urgent care being delivered have now returned to pre-pandemic levels, because of the over 700 urgent care centres established in practices to improve access for people during the pandemic. Throughout the pandemic, we have worked closely with NHS England and NHS Improvement to consider the level of NHS dentistry that can be delivered safely. Activity thresholds for full renumeration are based on data showing what is achievable while maintaining compliance with infection prevention and control measures.

The pandemic has reinforced the fact that transformation in NHS dentistry is essential. As has been alluded to, NHSEI is leading ongoing work on reforming the current dental system, working with a wide range of stakeholders and system partners. We acknowledge that, even before the pandemic and the imposition of limitations that it necessitated, access to NHS dentistry was sometimes a challenge in some areas and for some people. Putting that right will require action to both reform contractual arrangements and ensure that there are trained and qualified dental teams providing NHS services throughout the country.

Since the announcement in March that NHSEI is leading on the next stage of dental system reform, it has continued to work closely with system partners and stakeholders, including the British Dental Association in particular. The NHSEI dental system reform will deliver against a number of fundamental aims, including delivering improved health outcomes, an increased focus on preventive dental work, affordability for patients, and recognising that changes need to be supported by the profession. Making the NHS dental contract more attractive to the profession is a key part of helping with vital recruitment and retention. I know that will be particularly welcome to hon. Members from rural and coastal areas, as it has been highlighted that there is a particular challenge in some of those communities.

A key objective of this work is to improve patient access to NHS care, with a specific focus on addressing inequalities. We will set out our proposals in that area next year, in addition to the provisions in this Bill that will allow the Secretary of State to expand water fluoridation schemes. In addition, Health Education England’s “Advancing Dental Care” programme will, over the next four years, deliver its blueprint for change to reform education and training, develop skills, enable modernised flexible working, and widen access and participation among the workforce.

Together, we believe these measures will address the key challenges that impede the delivery of NHS dentistry, and improve patient access to NHS care. The Government will carry on with this essential work, and will continue co-operating with HEE and external stakeholders on this important issue. For that reason, I ask—possibly in vain—that the hon. Member for Nottingham North considers withdrawing the new clause.

[Alex Norris]

I am grateful to colleagues for their contributions. I am particularly glad that the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire brought up units of dental activity, which are a Treasury way of understanding activity, not a public health way of understanding oral health. Although they are effective for setting balanced budgets on an annual basis, they are really bad for saving money—in fact, they have cost money. There is broad consensus that UDAs are long out of date, and that after 15 years, it is time to move away from them.

Dealing with new clause 68 first, I was glad to hear the Minister at least suggest that this is an active process, because it was the first sign I have seen that the move away was not just a conceptual one. On that basis, I will not press the new clause to a Division, because we will not prejudge that process. However, I gently say that we really need to get on with this, because lots of dentists are waiting on the outcome of that process before making their judgment as to whether or not NHS dentistry is in their future. I was also glad to hear the Minister acknowledge that the system was not good enough before the pandemic. In response, I would say that removing a third of the real-terms funding was perhaps a significant reason why it was not very good anymore, and in future the answer may lie in tackling that point.

Turning to new clause 67, I was of course glad to hear the Minister say that this issue is being taken seriously. However, I was not clear on what “taken seriously” means beyond the existing support there is for businesses generally, not least because dentists have operated in this half space of still being open but not having the fullest demand on their order books, which has often meant that they have fallen between stools. However, I think the offer of that meeting is better than the new clause and, on that basis, I will pursue the route of that kind offer. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the clause.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

New Clause 69

National lead for policy related to allergies

“Within 6 months of the passage of this Act the Secretary of State must direct NHS England to designate a national lead for policy related to allergies.”—(Alex Norris.)

This new clause brings in a requirement for the Secretary of State to ensure the appointment of a NHS England allergy lead.

Brought up, and read the First time.

[Alex Norris]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

New clause 69 is very important indeed. It requires the Secretary of State to direct NHS England to appoint a tsar to lead on policy related to allergies.

In 2016, 15-year-old Natasha Ednan-Laperouse tragically lost her life after suffering an allergic reaction to a Pret A Manger baguette. Since then, her parents have campaigned tirelessly to ensure that her death was not in vain and to stop other parents and loved ones having to suffer as they are suffering. They set up the Natasha Allergy Research Foundation and their campaigning has already successfully led to Natasha’s law, which was implemented just last month and requires food retailers to display full ingredient and allergen labelling on foods made on premises and prepacked for direct sale. That is a tremendous achievement, and it will make a significant difference to lots of people. I have met the Ednan-Laperouse family, with their MP, my hon. Friend the Member for Hammersmith (Andy Slaughter); they are inspiring people and tremendous campaigners. The new clause is very much in the spirit of their latest campaign—I certainly would not bet against them.

The World Health Organisation has described allergic disease as a “modern epidemic”, while Allergy UK estimates that up to 21 million people in the UK are affected by allergies. Allergic disorders can have a detrimental impact on patients’ quality of life, as they not only have the obvious health effects, but can mean that social interactions that others take for granted—such as eating out, or even going to work—are a major health risk. Allergies can be complex: patients can suffer from several disorders at the same time, each triggered by different allergies.

In the 20 years to 2012, hospital admissions for anaphylaxis rose by 615%. Despite that, allergies are not particularly high up the political agenda for conversation and there is a perception of poor management across the NHS due to a lack of training and expertise. At the root of that is the fact that we have a very small number of consultants in adult or paediatric allergy and the fact that GPs receive basically no training in allergy.

Following the inquest into the death of Shanté Turay-Thomas—another tragic teenage death—the coroner highlighted the lack of a national allergy lead in her prevention of future death report, which was sent to the Department of Health and Social Care. I think today is a chance to make good on that, and I would be very interested to hear what the Minister has to say on those suggestions. Natasha’s foundation, with the support of Shanté’s mother, subsequently made the call for an allergy tsar.

Two weeks ago, the all-party parliamentary group on allergy, in conjunction with the National Allergy Strategy Group, launched its report, “Meeting the challenges of the National Allergy Crisis”. The report

“calls for an influential lead for allergy to be appointed who can implement a new national strategy to help the millions of people”

suffering. There is a real coming together across our communities of people in this space calling for this measure, and this the moment to do it.

Otherwise, as I have suggested, NHS allergy services will continue to get little attention, little prominence and little investment. Care is patchy and we know that people deserve much better support. An allergy tsar would act as a public champion for those with allergies, helping to deliver a national plan to join up GP and hospital services so that patients have a consistent and coherent NHS care pathway, and helping to promote the training of more specialist allergy doctors, consultants and GPs. It would make a difference to millions of people. I hope that the Minister will look upon the new clause favourably and give the answer that millions of people are waiting for.

[Edward Argar]

As the shadow Minister set out, the new clause would place a statutory responsibility on the Secretary of State, requiring him or her to direct NHS England to appoint an allergy lead. The shadow Minister rightly highlighted that tragic case that demonstrated to the country the issues and challenges in this space. I entirely sympathise with the intent of the hon. Gentleman, but I hope I can provide him with some reassurance that the amendment is not necessary, because NHSE is already able to appoint an allergy lead, or allergy tsar—call it what you will.

There is no specific national clinical director or specialty adviser for routine allergy services, but I am advised that NHS England and NHS Improvement keep their clinical leadership, including the national clinical director and national specialty adviser roles, under review to ensure alignment with the strategic priorities of the NHS and need. I am sure that NHSE will reflect carefully on the points made by the hon. Gentleman, and I will undertake to acquire a copy of the Hansard to pass on to NHS England and request that it considers the points he made in this context.

I also recognise that, more broadly, it is vital that NHS England and commissioners receive appropriate clinical advice in this area. That is currently provided by the clinical reference group for specialised immunology and allergy services. The CRG covers specialised treatment of certain immunological and allergic conditions. The allergic conditions include severe, complex and/or rare sub-groups. People with allergies continue to be supported through locally commissioned NHS services but, to support patients with more complex conditions, NHSE also directly commissions some specialist services. To support the implementation of coherent care pathways, NICE has also published guidance on a range of allergy conditions, including food allergy in under-19s, anaphylaxis and drug allergy.

We therefore do not believe that the new clause needs to be included in the Bill. Notwithstanding whether the hon. Gentleman decides to press it to a Division, I undertake to ensure that his comments and the case he makes for the role are passed on directly to NHS England. NHSE already has the power, should it wish to exercise it, to put such a person in post.

[Alex Norris]

I am grateful for that offer. I hope that when NHS England has a chance to consider what has been discussed in Committee, that will generate an offer to meet campaigners to understand what they are after and, we hope, to move positively on it. Beyond that, I am afraid that the Minister’s answer was too much in defence of a status quo that does not work for too many people for me to accept it. In the spirit of elevating the matter up the political agenda and creating that blinking light on someone’s dashboard to generate action, I will press the new clause to a vote.

Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Chair]

The final question that I must put is that I report the Bill, as amended, to the House.

[Edward Argar]

On a point of order, Mr Bone. Craving your indulgence, may I take this opportunity as we complete the lengthy passage of this legislation through Committee to put on the record our gratitude to the Clerks of the Committee, to the Hansard team and to the Doorkeepers? I also thank you and your fellow Chairs, and colleagues on the Committee. It would be remiss of me not to put on the record my gratitude for the amazing work done by my officials in the Department in preparing the Bill and in helping us to be ready to take it through the detailed scrutiny that has rightly happened in Committee. Thank you, Mr Bone.

[The Chair]

Thank you for that bogus point of order.

North Tees Hospital

Edward Argar Excerpts

Thursday 28th October 2021 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Health (Edward Argar)]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Stockton South (Matt Vickers) and the hon. Member for Stockton North (Alex Cunningham) for their words. Without prejudging what the application process for a future new hospital might come up with, in contrast to the hon. Member for Stockton North, I agree entirely with the words of my hon. Friend the Member for Stockton South in what was, as ever, an extremely powerful exposition, on behalf of his constituents, of the need for a new hospital. I congratulate him on securing the debate. He has been a tireless campaigner on behalf of North Tees Hospital ever since he entered this place, and he continues to be a great advocate for the people of Teesside and Stockton on healthcare and many other matters. They are extremely lucky to have him representing them in this place.

I am also grateful to the hon. Member for Stockton North for his kind words about me. I will bank that, though I may consider it an asset that needs to be renewed from time to time and not one that lasts in perpetuity. He mentioned how, when he raised the matter at Health questions earlier in the week, I said that I owe him an update letter. I undertake to write to him and to my hon. Friend the Member for Stockton South jointly to set out an update on the issue outwith the debate.

My hon. Friend was right to highlight that these have been incredibly challenging times for our NHS, including for the staff at North Tees Hospital and those across the trust and the country. I join him in expressing my gratitude to all of them for the work they have done and their dedication and commitment to caring for all his constituents and people across the region. I also pay tribute to him for the shift that he undertook at the hospital.

Before I turn to the substance of the case made by my hon. Friend, he kindly invited me to join him on a visit. I am due to bring my wellies to visit my hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley (Nick Fletcher), who secured a commitment for a visit earlier this week. If we can find a way to add that to the tour that it looks like I may be undertaking around the country, I look forward to visiting him and the hon. Member for Stockton North in the not-too-distant future.

[Alex Cunningham]

It’s only 100 miles away.

[Edward Argar]

Given that I have also committed to visiting places in Norfolk and—I think—Lancashire, it will be a pretty big tour. That is all I will say.

As I said, I commend my hon. Friend the Member for Stockton South on his campaign on behalf of the hospital and on the dynamism that he has brought to it and to this place. He set out clearly the context of the hospital in terms of his constituency and the healthcare needs of his constituents. Two things that he said in particular struck me as very powerful statements. First, he set out the difference in life expectancy at 64 years compared with over 80 just up the road. Secondly, I was struck by the age of the hospital—it predates my existence, so it almost certainly predates his as well—and the impact that the design standards of that time and the ageing of the hospital has on its operation and maintenance costs as well as physically keeping it functioning as an acute hospital.

The Government have made clear our commitment to levelling up outcomes across the country, and that will certainly extend to benefiting the people of his constituency. To level up effectively, we need to improve health outcomes, and we are committed to reducing health disparities between the most and least deprived areas of the United Kingdom. Yesterday, as my hon. Friend said, the Chancellor confirmed that the Government are backing our NHS with a significant capital settlement including £5.9 billion to cut waiting lists as well as for surgical hubs, community diagnostic centres and IT improvements. That will create a step change in the quality and efficiency of care up and down the country. Of course, giving people greater opportunity to get diagnosed and scanned earlier may lead to an increase in the need for services at his hospital and others as people have their illnesses identified and need to have them treated. I will turn in a moment to his powerful plea for a new hospital.

My hon. Friend also touched on the critical need for trusts to maintain their estates. We are pleased to confirm that the spending review continues to back trusts with significant annual operational capital investment to do that, enabling them to maintain and refurbish their premises. Crucially, that is with multi-year predictability and certainty. We all know how, in capital spending, the longer the settlement in years, the easier it is both to plan for it and to get a better deal for the investment from those being employed to carry it out. More broadly, we previously confirmed an initial £3.7 billion over the four-year period from spending review 2020 to make progress on the building of 48 new hospitals by 2030. Thirty of the hospitals already announced are due to be built outside London and the south-east. Of course that comes on top of additional funding to upgrade hospitals.

My hon. Friend is, as ever, passionate and persistent in putting the case for North Tees to be among these new hospitals, as is the hon. Gentleman. I reassure my hon. Friend that I never tire of having the opportunity to talk about this with him and having him putting the case to me; he is always very welcome to do so. I will turn shortly to the process and timelines for these additional eight new hospitals on top of those already announced, but first I want to highlight a little of the significant investment that North Tees and Hartlepool NHS Foundation Trust has seen in recent times.

That investment includes: £3.5 million as part of our 2020-21 critical infrastructure risk fund to help it address backlog maintenance across the locations of services in the trust; £3 million as part of our A&E upgrades fund for covid measures, including funding additional streaming capacity for the emergency department at the University Hospital of North Tees; and as part of our £200 million diagnostic investment to replace diagnostic machines that are more than 10 years old, the trust has received a new CT scanner that has been installed and operational since 2020 at University Hospital of Hartlepool.

Of course, we are aware of the need for further investment across the NHS estate, and that is why the Government have been doing ambitious work providing substantial capital investment to support the biggest hospital building programme in a generation. As my hon. Friend has already highlighted, the Government have launched the next phase of implementation for our hospital building programme. On 15 July we invited expressions of interest from trusts who wished to be considered for inclusion in the next wave. The deadline for submitting expressions of interest passed in early September and, without prejudicing the decision, I was pleased to receive a submission from the University Hospital of North Tees.

We are of course committed to a robust selection process for these next eight hospitals, and as such I am sure my hon. Friend and the hon. Gentleman will understand that I cannot comment on individual bids substantively while that selection is ongoing. The submission and assessment of expressions of interest is the first of a two-stage process for the selection of the next eight, to be followed by a more detailed process for long-listed schemes later in the year, considering schemes against multiple priorities, including: transforming services to deliver better, joined-up care; creating stronger and greener NHS buildings; and of course looking at need and the state of buildings that need to be replaced. Another key criterion is the fair allocation of investment by addressing levelling-up criteria. We aim to make and announce a final decision on the next eight hospitals in spring 2022.

My hon. Friend highlighted his concerns about private finance in the context of the legacy of the previous Labour Government and what that meant for his hospital trust. As he is aware, the Government have retired—that is the nice way of putting it—the private finance initiative used so extensively by previous Labour Governments, so, in future, new hospitals built for the NHS will no longer be privately financed. My Department continues to work with the NHS to do more to maximise the value of existing PFI contracts. I would encourage any trust concerned about their PFI contract to contact my officials for help. I continue to have discussions with Her Majesty’s Treasury more broadly and strategically about addressing the costly legacy of PFI in the NHS.

To conclude, I reiterate my gratitude, both to the hon. Member for Stockton North for the tenor in which he always approaches campaigning for his constituents and their hospital, but particularly to my hon. Friend the Member for Stockton South for the work he is doing to support the refurbishment of North Tees Hospital. As I said, he brings a passion and a dynamism to this place on behalf of his constituents, and I am very conscious of the fact that, terrier-like, he will not let go until he has achieved what he seeks to achieve on behalf of his constituents. I commend him for that.

The Government are committed to delivering their improvement programmes to hospitals and the NHS estate across the country and look forward to delivering the step change in the quality and efficiency of care underpinned by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer’s announcements yesterday.

Question put and agreed to.

Health and Care Bill (Twentieth sitting)

Edward Argar Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 28th October 2021 Public Bill Committees

[Alex Norris]

I do share that view, particularly around children. Our preference would be for them to never start. There should not be packages with cartoons and child-friendly descriptors to develop a market among children. I think there would be a high level of consensus on that.

In that spirit, new clause 32 addresses an incredible loophole, which I cannot believe anybody thinks is a good idea. If the Minister is not going to accept new clause 32, I hope he will say when the issue will be resolved. The idea that you cannot sell e-cigarettes to children but that you can give them out as free samples to under-18s is quite hard to understand. It is time for us to get hold of this simple loophole, which goes against the spirit of the legislation, which is designed to protect children against nicotine addiction. I hope we can get some clarity, either because the Minister accepts the new clause or gives us a clear picture that we will see action very soon.

On new clause 33, about flavoured tobacco products, it again feels like the market is not acting in the spirit of the laws that have been passed. Flavoured tobacco is designed to make products more appealing, especially to younger people. In May 2020, we banned the sale of tobacco with a characterising flavour such as vanilla, spices and menthol. However, companies have adapted to this legal change with new innovations that skirt the law and provide smoking experiences that replicate flavoured tobacco. I can go to supermarket websites and find “green” branded cigarettes being sold, with many reviews stating how similar the flavour is to menthol cigarettes. I do not think that is in the spirit of the law.

In the year from May 2020, Japan Tobacco made over £91 million in profits from menthol brands. Clearly, the law has not worked as we want it to. Moreover, between January 2020 and 2021, a survey of smokers showed that the smoking of menthol cigarettes has not declined, despite the apparent ban, so I do not think the law is working. This new clause would do a good job of closing that legal loophole. If the Minister is not minded to accept it, I would be keen to know what the Government intend to do instead, because I cannot believe that they want laws that they passed, in possession of full facts, to be worked around in that way.

I will take new clauses 34 to 37 as a group, because they create the same thing: a tobacco control fund, paid for by manufacturers, combined with the regulation of tobacco companies’ profits. As my hon. Friend the Member for City of Durham said, when the Government announced their smoke-free 2030 ambition, they promised to consider a US-style “polluter pays” levy on the manufacturers, and included an ultimatum for industry to make smoked tobacco obsolete by 2030. My hon. Friend’s APPG has published a very strong option for how to do that. Ministers could lift and shift that very happily and get on with this. There are real benefits to that.

Action on Smoking and Health do some wonderful work, and I am grateful for its support in my work. It estimates that a comprehensive national, regional and local tobacco control programme—in many ways, we have lost that in recent years—to deliver a smoke-free 2030 would cost the UK about £315 million. That would involve adding back lost services. ASH’s estimate for a levy, based on the model the APPG talks about, is £700 million. This could be a “polluter pays” model, and we would have plenty left over to overturn all those poor public health budget cut decisions taken over the last decade. If the spirit of yesterday’s Budget was to try to rewind and erase the lost decade that we have had in this country, this would be a really good place to do that, and I think that is a good deal.

Of course, the EU tobacco tax directive is no longer a blocking factor, so we have complete agency to act in this area and it is in the gift of the Government, so I am very interested to know how far along the Minister or his colleagues are in the consideration, as they said, of this matter, and when we will see some proposals. Similarly, when will we see another tobacco control plan? That is something that everybody, from local government, public services, the private sector, community and voluntary services and all of us in this place, can organise around. The 2030 goal is a common goal. Pretty much everything that we have said in the new clauses are things that we are of one mind on. We can do something really good for the health of the nation, and I hope to find the Minister in action mode on that.

I will finish by referencing new clause 38, also tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for City of Durham, because I do not want it to look like I have ducked the question. It is important that we actively look at that and consider the evidence. I am perhaps not ready to say that it should be in the Bill, but it should be part of an active conversation in this area and part of a tobacco control plan. I think the Minister may be in a similar place on that, because we know that it is an effective part of the armoury. There are loads of really great things to go at in this set of new clauses, and I hope that he feels the same way.

[The Minister for Health (Edward Argar)]

It is a pleasure, as ever, to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Bone. I am grateful to the hon. Member for City of Durham for giving us an opportunity to debate the new clauses. I had the privilege and pleasure, I think almost a year and a half or two years ago, when I was standing in for the Public Health Minister, of responding to a debate in the House on this subject—I think she was in Westminster Hall responding to another debate. I therefore had the pleasure of listening to hon. Members speaking about the work of the APPG, and this issue more broadly, on that occasion. It seems like an age ago. I suspect that it was only about a year ago, but that is what the last year and a half has done for many of us.

New clause 29 seeks to provide powers for the Secretary of State to impose a requirement for tobacco manufacturers to print health warnings on individual cigarettes and cigarette rolling papers. That requirement is intended to further strengthen the current public health messaging and encourage smokers to quit. The Government are sympathetic to the aims of the new clause. We strongly support measures to stop people smoking and to educate smokers of its dangers, as we have done through warnings on cigarette packs. However, we believe that we need to conduct some further research and build a more robust evidence base in support of such additional measures before introducing them. If evidence shows that that requirement would not be effective, there is a risk that the power would not be used. As hon. Members will be aware—the hon. Lady was right in the point that she made—health is a devolved matter. Therefore such a measure would need to be considered in partnership with the devolved Administrations.

We are currently in the process of developing our new tobacco control plan. When the hon. Lady winds up the debate on this group of new clauses, she may say, “All well and good, but we’ve been in that place for a while. When will I see it?” I would be surprised were she not to do so. We continue to work on the plan at pace. She will be aware that the events of the last year and a half have, in a number of areas, knocked the existing timelines for producing plans slightly sideways, but we continue to work actively on that. As part of the tobacco control plan that we are working on, we are exploring a broad range of new regulatory measures to support our ambition to be smoke free by 2030. We are reviewing this specific proposal as part of that work, in considering the options for a package of legislative measures.

New clause 30 seeks to provide a power for the Secretary of State to introduce a requirement for manufacturers to insert leaflets containing health information and information about smoking cessation services inside cigarette packaging. We believe that that power is not strictly necessary as the Department could legislate to do that already under the Children and Families Act 2014, as inserts could be required for public health messaging through amendments to the Standardised Packaging of Tobacco Products Regulations 2015. It is also important to note that we already have strong graphic images and warnings of the health harms of smoking on the outside of cigarette packs, and the NHS website provides advice for people seeking to quit smoking. That website address is required on packaging under the Tobacco and Related Products Regulations 2016.

The current regulations, the Standardised Packaging of Tobacco Products Regulations 2015, prohibit the use of inserts, as there was limited evidence during the development of those regulations that placing public health messaging inserts inside cigarette packets was more effective than the messaging on the outside of packs. A post-implementation review of SPOT—if I may refer to the regulations in that way to save a little time—is currently under way. It is seeking to assess whether the regulations have met their objectives, and will identify whether there is a need to strengthen them in any way or to revisit any aspect of them, such as the one that the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire mentions. We aim to publish the post-implementation review before the end of this year.

If we were to introduce inserts through regulations, we would need to conduct further research on that. We would need to establish the public health benefit, costs to businesses, impact on the environment from litter and practicalities around enforcement, and crucially build a robust evidence base in support of such measures and their efficacy, along with, obviously, public consultation on them. This is something that we will consider as part of the Smokefree 2030 regulatory plans, but we will wait and see what, in the next couple of months, the published post-implementation review says. Health, as I have mentioned, is devolved, so it is something on which we would need to work with our friends and partners in the Scottish Government and other devolved Administrations.

New clause 31 seeks to enable legislation that would make provision about the retail packaging and labelling of electronic cigarettes and other novel nicotine products. That would include requirements for health warnings and the prohibition of branding elements that are attractive to children. I pay tribute to the work that the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Nottingham North, has done in this space. I know that this is not just an issue of shadow ministerial concern for him, but something in which he has taken an interest as an individual Member of Parliament, so I recognise his expertise and knowledge in this area.

We are currently undertaking a post-implementation review of the Tobacco and Related Products Regulations 2016 as well. The current regulations include requirements on the packaging and labelling of e-cigarettes, along with restrictions on marketing, and they prohibit advertising on mainstream media such as TV and radio for e-cigarettes. Again, we will publish that review this year.

We want to encourage smokers to quit smoking using nicotine replacement therapy and by switching to less harmful products such as e-cigarettes. I take the point made by the hon. Members for Nottingham North and for Central Ayrshire. I share the shadow Minister’s view that if there is a choice between a conventional cigarette and an e-cigarette, I would much prefer people to be smoking an e-cigarette, because it is less harmful. But I absolutely take the point made by the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire, who is, as we know, an eminent clinician, that even if it is less harmful, it is still harmful. The ideal would be that people use neither product, but if it is a choice between the two and a question of getting someone to change their habit, I would much prefer to see them using an e-cigarette than a conventional cigarette. I think that there is consensus on that point across the two Front Benches and, indeed, the SNP Front Bench.

However, we need to ensure that our regulatory framework continues to protect young people and non-smokers from using e-cigarettes. That is the point about the degree of harm: although less, it is still there. Regular youth use of e-cigarettes does, on current evidence, remain very low, at about 2% of 11 to 15-year olds. That figure dates back to 2018, so it is slightly dated, but it gives us a useful data point. However, I do not believe that that should induce complacency in any of us. We need to continue looking at the matter very carefully.

Again, the Government are sympathetic to the aims of the new clause and strongly support measures to protect young people. Again, I point to the timing and the need for the post-implementation reviews and for further research and consideration in the light of those when they come forward in the next few months.

New clause 32 seeks to give powers to the Secretary of State to make regulations to prohibit the free distribution or sale of any nicotine products to anyone under 18, with the exception of the sale or distribution of nicotine replacement therapy licensed for use by under-18s. There is already in place, as the shadow Minister alluded to, legislation that prohibits the sale of tobacco and e-cigarettes to under-18s; that includes proxy sales. There are also existing powers in the Children and Families Act 2014 to extend the age-of-sale restrictions to include any nicotine products such as nicotine pouches. Therefore, as he said, the new clause is not needed in relation to sales.

New clause 32 seeks to further protect young people from the distribution of free nicotine products to under-18s, but again, we do not have a firm or robust evidence base at present to suggest that that is a widespread problem. The recent post-implementation review of the Nicotine Inhaling Products (Age of Sale and Proxy Purchasing) Regulations 2015, published earlier this year, did not raise that as a concern. I suspect the hon. Member for Nottingham North will say, “Why not get ahead of the game, anyway, with a pragmatic measure?”, and I have some sympathy with that point.

[Dr Whitford]

With regard to the free provision of e-cigarettes or nicotine substitutes, the provision that could be amended quite simply by referring to where they are being provided through smoking cessation services, as opposed to where someone is buying them and then dishing them out, or is trying to use them to recruit young smokers. Accessing them commercially is quite different from being given them as part of a public health smoking cessation project.

[Edward Argar]

That is the point I was seeking to make. Smoking cessation services would still continue as normal. The argument from the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Nottingham North—this is where I might diverge from him, not necessarily in intent but in the timing—is that even if we cannot see this as a problem at the moment, we should act now on the basis of principle. His argument is: “Even if it is not happening, why would we let it happen? We should just close the loophole”—I paraphrase, but I think that is his argument. My counter-argument is that it would be appropriate to look at this, but to conduct further research to develop the evidence base further. Beyond that we have—from 2018, for example—more work to do on vaping first. That is essentially the point of difference.

The shadow Minister might say, “I accept that, but I still think we should do it now.” That is ultimately a difference in positions, not a point of principle about needing to look at this. It is about whether to act now or to do further research. That is the only difference, and the research is needed to evaluate the detailed benefits of the new clause. Also, there is the scale of the issue that we might be tackling. I know that the hon. Gentleman is fond of an impact assessment of the costs as well as the benefits. He rightly, as does his colleague on the Front Bench, the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston, and you on occasions, Mr Bone—

[The Chair]

Order. When I sit in this Chair, I have no views on anything.

[Edward Argar]

Except perhaps the proper conduct of proceedings.

Moving on swiftly, new clause 33 seeks to change the current flavour ban, which would of course be the context in which I was referring to proper conduct proceedings requiring proper documents to be published. The new clause seeks to change the current flavour ban, which is based on characterising flavours in cigarettes and hand-rolling tobacco, to one based on flavours for all tobacco products, as well as accessories used to flavour tobacco products.

The Government are committed to protecting the population from the harms of tobacco. Tobacco for smoking that has a detectable flavour—for example, menthol—has been changed to be more appealing to young people and easier to inhale. That can often result in a lifetime of tobacco addiction. Through the Tobacco and Related Products Regulations 2016, we have already banned characterising flavours in cigarettes and hand-rolled tobaccos. That means flavours that are noticeable before or during smoking of the product.

Again, the Government are sympathetic to the aims of the new clause, which would prohibit flavours in all tobacco products and accessories, but it is not clear how a ban on flavours would be enforced in practice, as it would include a ban on flavours that do not give a noticeable flavour to the product. Furthermore, it is not clear how this may be a better option than the current regulations, although the hon. Member for City of Durham might wish to address that point in her winding-up speech. As ever, I will reflect carefully on what she says and then discuss it with my colleague, the Public Health Minister. We are currently in the process of developing our new tobacco control plan. We are exploring, as I have said, a broad range of additional regulatory measures to support our Smokefree 2030 ambition.

New clauses 34 to 37—which, with your permission, Mr Bone, I will take in one bundle—seek to provide the Secretary of State with a power to enable the introduction of a scheme on tobacco manufacturers, limiting profitability by regulating prices. Tobacco taxation matters are, it will not surprise hon. Members to hear, a matter for Her Majesty’s Treasury. Although earlier this week I found myself answering an urgent question relating to matters pertinent to Her Majesty’s Treasury, I will not stray into its territory, beyond saying that reducing the affordability of tobacco is one of the most effective measures to trigger smoking cessation. Tax increases are particularly effective among a range of groups of smokers, and therefore this is a key tool in helping to address health disparities and health outcomes associated with smoking.

As part of the annual Budget process, the Treasury will continue the policy of using tax to raise revenues and encourage cessation through high prices on tobacco products. The tobacco industry is already required to make a contribution to public finances, through tobacco duty, VAT and corporation tax. While the Government are open to the idea of the tobacco industry providing additional funds beyond taxation, further consideration of the potential options for and impacts of a scheme, including a robust impact assessment, would be needed. We would also need to consider how such a scheme would be implemented and how it would impact the taxation requirements currently placed on the industry. Such a scheme would likely take a number of years to develop and deliver to ensure that it was effective and robust.

The Department will continue to work with Her Majesty’s Treasury to assess the most effective regulatory means of making the industry pay for the harm that its products cause to our population, to support the Government’s Smokefree 2030 ambition, including exploring a potential future levy. Our ongoing work has contributed to smoking rates falling to their lowest on record, as the hon. Member for Nottingham North said, but there is still much more work to be done to protect people from the harms of tobacco.

Finally, new clause 38 would introduce a power to introduce legislation that would increase the age of sale on tobacco from 18 to 21. We have successfully made many regulatory reforms over the past two decades, and the UK is a global leader in tobacco control. Measures include raising the age of sale from 16 to 18, a tobacco display ban, standardised packaging and a ban on smoking in cars with children, all strengthening the barrier between young people and tobacco products.

The Government remain committed to our ambition to be smoke free by 2030 and to continue to protect the population and future generations from the harms of tobacco. However, the Government would like to review the evidence base of increasing the age of sale to 21 in more detail—I am probably in the same place on that issue as the shadow Minister. We would like to further assess its full impact on public health, the costs of implementation and how it would be enforced by trading standards. We have not consulted publicly on raising the age of sale to 21 to assess public opinion and consider whether it is the right regulatory measure to take forward to protect future generations. I know it is an issue that the APPG and the Royal College of Physicians have recommended we should consider.

We are currently in the process of developing our new tobacco control plan. We will review all the proposals in that context, as well as the well-researched reports that the APPG has put forward. I suspect the hon. Member for City of Durham will still want to push us on a few of these points—if not disagreeing with the sentiment, then possibly with the speed or the timescale. I will listen very carefully to what she says. I encourage her not to press the new clauses, but I suspect I may be out of luck.

[Mary Kelly Foy]

I welcome the Government’s commitment to publishing the plan and the consideration of some of the recommendations. I hope we will see that very soon. I will not press the majority of the new clauses, but new clauses 31 and 32 are aimed at children and child public health. I do not think we can wait.

We already have examples of vaping companies handing out free vaping products to 16 and 17-year-olds. There is an example of a 17-year-old woman on a market stall. A third party company came along and offered her vaping products in return for her email address, which was suspicious enough anyway. They do not tell the young person that the products have nicotine in them. There are already such examples.

I went online this morning to see whether I could purchase vaping products. The first one that came up was called the Breakfast Club, which tastes like marshmallow-flavoured breakfast charms. It is a shot of nicotine that goes into the refill of a vaping product. The refill is 15 ml, with a space left at the top for the shot. The Breakfast Club “charms”, which come in pink and yellow, are aimed at young people. When I went to buy some, I was asked if I was over 18; I would just have to click “Yes” for it to be delivered to my door tomorrow.

There is evidence that the longer we wait, the more young people will be hooked on nicotine through vaping products. I do not think we need further evidence. How many more young people will be addicted by the time the plan is introduced? I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion, but I will divide the Committee on new clauses 31 and 32.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

New Clause 31

Packaging and labelling of nicotine products

“The Secretary of State may by regulations make provision about the retail packaging and labelling of electronic cigarettes and other novel nicotine products including requirements for health warnings and prohibition of branding elements attractive to children.”—(Mary Kelly Foy.)

This new clause would give powers to the Secretary of State to prohibit branding on e-cigarette packaging which is appealing to children.

Brought up, and read the First time.

Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Justin Madders]

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair this morning, Mr Bone.

The NHS needs to have a core duty to have regard to carers and to promote their health and wellbeing. New clause 39 would put on a statutory footing the requirement for integrated care boards to collect information on carers and their families, and then to use it to develop strategies to promote their health and wellbeing. This is an attempt to ensure a strategic approach to the need for the NHS to demonstrate that it has considered carers in its policies and practice. In other words, all parts of the NHS would have to think carer.

The new clause would avoid situations arising in which carers had been omitted from consideration, for instance in hospital discharges, by ensuring proper care-proofing throughout the entire NHS. We believe that could help integration. Social care sees carers as an equal partner in care and very much part of the system, but sometimes there is a less favourable experience in the health service.

There would also be benefits to the NHS overall, through improved health and wellbeing, improved satisfaction with services, reduced admissions and readmissions, reduced crisis and reduced need. The new clause would avoid the significant omission of carers in recent guidance and improve the general approach to carers. It would also be good for NHS staff, one in three of whom couple working in the NHS with unpaid caring for family members and friends. Research shows increased job satisfaction when employers recognise carers, and the Minister will know how important it is to improve retention rates.

There is definitely an issue here. Surveys have consistently shown a problem, with 55% of carers saying that they agree or strongly agree with the statement, “I feel invisible to the NHS”. They are often providing more than 50 hours of care a week, which is more than a full-time job, and are essential to the NHS, yet that goes unrecognised. There are a range of other statistics on how carers feel about the recognition of their role; 56% agree or agree strongly with the statement, “Health services and professionals do not share information with me, even if it is essential for me to be able to care”. More than half are not involved in decisions on hospital discharge, two thirds of carers do not feel listened to by healthcare professionals about their willingness and ability to care, and a majority are not given enough information and advice when a person they care for is discharged from hospital to care for them safely. Most carers—60%—say that at the point of hospital discharge, they receive insufficient support to protect the health and wellbeing of the patient, or their own health.

Under the Health and Social Care Act 2012, carers have parity of esteem, and an equal right to receive information and advice and to have their needs considered. The Government accept that that is right for social care, so we think it should apply equally in healthcare. The NHS has very few responsibilities towards carers when compared with the social care sector. Carers were left out of the original Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation decision on vaccination, even though they were in the green book. They were completely left out of the White Paper that underpinned this Bill; they were left out of two versions of the “Discharge to Assess” guidance; and they barely get a mention in integrated care partnership guidance—there is one reference in there to unpaid carers.

Several organisations are keen to support the approach set out in the new clause, including the Patients Association and the MS Society. The new clause would serve as an important marker in laying out the importance of carers, and it would help us work towards proper strategies to ensure that their value is recognised and that they are supported.

Turning to new clause 40, carers are mentioned in clauses 5 and 19, but are not defined anywhere. They could in theory include carers of any age. The new clause seeks to ensure absolute clarity about who the term “carer” refers to: it would refer to unpaid carers only—not volunteers or paid staff, but friends and family, commonly, who provide care. This keeps the definition consistent with other legislation, and includes parents of disabled children and, most importantly, young carers, who are particularly vulnerable to being forgotten. Young carers face more health inequalities than other children of the same age, and that persists into young adulthood. Every GP patient survey has shown that it is essential that it is made clear and explicit in legislation that provisions on carers include young carers.

In conclusion, we want to acknowledge the vital contribution that carers make, which can be quantified as running into billions of pounds. The NHS could not function without the daily support of unpaid carers, and during the pandemic the extra caring responsibilities that carers took on stopped the NHS being completely overwhelmed. These new clauses ensure carers’ needs will be at the heart of NHS decision making and polices. That is why we hope the Minister is sympathetic to them.

[Edward Argar]

New clauses 39 and 40 focus on carers. First, I join the shadow Minister, as I suspect all hon. Members wish to, in recognising and paying tribute to the enormous amount of work that carers, both formal and informal, do. We want to strengthen the system by which carers are supported, and ensure that those receiving care have choice and control over how they access services.

New clause 39 would create an obligation on integrated care boards to collect information, and understand and respond to the needs of carers with regard to their health and wellbeing. The Bill provides an opportunity to ensure the views of carers are properly embedded in integrated care boards. The Bill confers a duty on integrated care boards to promote the involvement of carers, along with those who access care and support, in decisions relating to the prevention, diagnosis and treatment of illness, and care. There are equivalent provisions for NHS England-commissioned services.

Furthermore, the joint strategic needs assessment, prepared by health and wellbeing boards, will continue to have to consider the needs of carers, and that will shape the strategy developed by the integrated care partnership and the plans of the ICB. That means the services commissioned through these routes in the area where a carer lives will have considered the impact on carers in that community. Carers UK has welcomed the clauses for recognising

“the crucial role carers play day in, day out supporting their relatives’ health”,

and it says the clauses

“give carers more of the visibility they need within health legislation.”

[Dr Whitford]

Does the Minister recognise the difficulty in getting unpaid carers to recognise that they are unpaid carers? Particularly during covid, couples may have grown into a caring role without ever thinking of themselves as carers, and therefore they do not seek financial or other support. We need a campaign to try and get people to recognise that they are carers. A project that I was involved in when I was back in the NHS in the first wave used the community pharmacy system to interact with carers who were collecting medicines, and helped guide them to the available support.

[Edward Argar]

I entirely agree with the hon. Lady. There is a huge number of unpaid carers who we know about, and who recognise themselves as carers, but there will be a huge number who, as she says, do not see themselves in that way. They see caring for a loved one as part of their normal life, and as what they do; they do not recognise that they are providing care.

There is also a large, often unidentified, number of child carers. They care for their parents, grandparents and others, but they will not think of it in that way. They just think they are doing their bit to look after mum or dad, or granny or grandad. The hon. Lady is right to highlight the need for all of us—both in government and other Members—to make it as clear as possible that these people are carers and should be able to access support and help. There is support and help available, but people need to understand that they are in that category and are entitled to it. That is a long answer to basically say that I entirely agree with the hon. Lady.

We are not convinced that the provisions of new clause 39 are appropriate for the ICB, as a similar duty to that in the new clause is already held by and imposed on local authorities, so it risks causing duplication. The local authority will be part of the ICB and of the ICP, so we feel that the issue is captured.

Carers already have a legal right to an assessment of their needs from their local authority. Local authorities have a legal duty to meet needs identified through a carer’s assessment where the carer is deemed eligible. In 2019-20—the latest figures I have to hand—376,000 unpaid carers in England were assessed, reviewed, and/or supported. However, the number may well be a lot higher than that figure, which goes to the point made by the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire.

We continue to work closely with stakeholders, care organisations and the wider sector to support carers. We will work with care users, providers and other partners to co-develop more detail on our plans for the reform of adult social care. We will publish further detail of our plans for reform in a White Paper later this year, building of course on the strong foundations of integration we are setting in this legislation. The shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston, would have been disappointed or concerned about me if I had not said that, and would have wondered what was going on.

New clause 40 introduces a definition of carer that includes—this goes to the point to which I have just responded—young carers, parent carers and adult carers. It seeks to bring clarity and to ensure that all carers, regardless of their age or their relationship with the person they care for, benefit from the measures in the Bill related to carers. The circumstances and needs of every unpaid carer are unique. Unpaid carers make a vital contribution to the lives of those they care for, and I know that every member of this Committee would want to put on record a tribute to them. It is important that we continue to work to understand carers’ needs and how to best support them, while reflecting the diversity of carers.

I have already discussed the measures in the Bill designed to promote the involvement of carers. “Carers” in this context should include anyone, child or adult, who cares, unpaid, for a friend or family member who, due to a lifelong condition, frailty, illness, disability, serious injury, mental health condition or even addiction, cannot cope without their support. In seeking clarity and inclusion, it is important that we do not inadvertently exclude groups of carers. The legislation as drafted is based on an everyday use of the term “carer”, and this allows for flexibility and the inclusion of all who provide unpaid care, in any shape or form, to a loved one or friend.

I appreciate, and to a large extent share, the shadow Minister’s intention of strengthening the legislation and seeking to bring clarity, so that those who are entitled to support know it, and can claim what they are entitled to. I want to reassure members of the Committee that we have today heard the concerns expressed about carers. I will take that away and carefully consider the issues, and see if we can continue to address them through the wider work of the Department on carers, and our ongoing discussions with organisations, many of which we deal with as constituency MPs, week in and week out, on their work in our constituencies.

For these reasons, I encourage the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston to consider not pressing his new clauses to a Division, but I look forward to hearing from him.

[Mary Kelly Foy]

For those who do not know, I should say that I was a carer for my severely disabled daughter for 27 years. Maria died six years ago; she suffered with cerebral palsy. I was very fortunate to be in a local authority that recognised the need for respite for carers. I was lucky enough to have a very generous package of six weeks, and that allowed me to engage with public life, have a social life and just recharge my batteries. However, other local authorities do not give such generous packages; it is a postcode lottery. When carers can no longer look after their loved one and that person has to be placed in social care, the cost to the public purse is huge.

On young carers, the issue is not just the caring role of young children. My children were classed as young carers, and the package they had was to enable them to enjoy social activities with other young people. They felt very left out of normal activities, because I was spending most of my time looking after Maria. It is very important that carers recognise that there is help out there, and help has to be consistent. As we know, local authorities have had their budgets cut massively, so what was once perhaps a gold star service for carers is down to a much lesser service.

A lot of carers I knew did not think they were carers and did not really want anything from the state. They said, “We’re just doing it because this is our loved one, and this is what we need to do.” However, the needs, health and wellbeing of unpaid carers are so important if we want them to continue doing the fantastic job that they do.

--- Later in debate ---

[Justin Madders]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Continuing healthcare ought to be something that we do not need to think about in a truly integrated care system. Hopefully, when the next White Paper comes along, it will address some of our issues with continuing healthcare—no doubt the Minister will tell us whether that is correct.

We all know that continuing healthcare is a huge source of contention between the NHS and local authorities. Arguing about who pays for what is not productive or efficient, and of course it is always the patient who is stuck in the middle. I have numerous examples, as I am sure other hon. Members do, of constituents who have been wrangling, for years after the care was provided, about who is picking up the bill for what. It seems a highly bureaucratic, unfair and at times deeply distressing experience for the families involved.

It has been clear for decades that we are moving into a world where many people will have multiple long-term conditions, with both health and social care needs. The new clause was tabled with that in mind, and with the assistance of the Motor Neurone Disease Association. As one would expect, those with MND often fall into the CHC web. I cannot allow a reference to MND to pass without paying tribute to Rob Burrow and the many other magnificent campaigners who have put the spotlight on the challenges that those diagnosed with MND face. I had the privilege of knowing Rob when he was a professional sportsman, and he has taken equal vigour, determination and courage into this field. He has been an absolute star in campaigning on these issues.

Under the current complex and poorly understood rules, some qualify for free social care—in other words, the NHS pays for it, rather than the local authority—but it is for adults only, and in order to qualify there has to be an assessment by professionals of all a person’s needs. If the needs change, the eligibility can change, and of course there are endless arguments about what the needs are at any particular time. That demonstrates why the integration of care is very important and will probably be more efficient in the long run. Those in receipt of, or possibly eligible for, continuing healthcare should be fully involved in the assessment process and kept informed. Carers, who we have already discussed, and family members should also be consulted. There are the personal experience aspects of the process to look at, as well as the arguments about who pays for what.

The new clause accepts that we cannot fix all these things overnight. It suggests that in some cases someone should be responsible for ensuring that the system works properly in the interests of those with continuing needs. This is all part of the wider application of proper openness, and of transparency being the strongest and best form of good governance.

Clinical commissioning groups have a legal responsibility to meet the assessed health and care needs of every person in their area who is found eligible for continuing healthcare. Their responsibilities are laid out in the national framework and supporting guidance, but I am afraid there is extensive evidence that they do not always fulfil those responsibilities, and that the monitoring of delivery of continuing healthcare is inadequate. In 2018, a Public Accounts Committee inquiry on continuing healthcare found:

“NHS England is not adequately carrying out its responsibility to ensure CCGs are complying with the legal requirement to provide CHC to those that are eligible.”

It also found that

“there are limited assurance processes in place to ensure that eligibility decisions are consistent”,

and that existing measures

“may not go far enough to address the variation in performance”

across CCGs. These findings were echoed in a November 2020 report by the Parliamentary and Health Services Ombudsman, which warned that

“people continue to be seriously let down by failings in the way…healthcare is handled by CCGs.”

Patient organisations, represented collectively through the Continuing Healthcare Alliance, have reported a wide range of significant problems in CHC delivery, including CCGs not adhering to the national framework or associated guidance for assessment and care delivery, leading to significant inconsistency and variation across the country. Not enough data is collected about who receives continuing healthcare and multidisciplinary teams are frequently not used to conduct assessments, which leads to them sometimes being carried out by individuals with no knowledge of that person’s history or their medical condition. Care packages are frequently inadequate to assess needs, particularly when individuals require complex care or specialist care input. There is no effective system or process in place to monitor the quality of delivery across the country, to address that unwarranted variation and to take action when commissioners fail to live up to their legal responsibilities in respect of CHC.

We are seeking to address some of those issues through the new clause. We have what we would describe as an accountability gap, where there is no effective mechanism to monitor delivery of CHC and hold to account those who are meant to be responsible for delivering it. It goes without saying that people in receipt of CHC are sometimes the most vulnerable in the population, by definition, and it is surely unacceptable that a group of individuals continue to be let down by a failing system with no mechanism to identify and address those failings.

We hope that the new clause will address that issue and support better patient experience and outcomes with CHC. I do not intend to press it to a vote, but I would appreciate some responses from the Minister. The issue is not going to go away, so I would like his thoughts about the future of the whole idea of continuing healthcare and how we best monitor and ensure consistency and compliance throughout the country. Any thoughts on how we can make the system better would be most welcome.

[Edward Argar]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman and join him in paying tribute to the work of the MND Association and other campaigners who do so much to bring these issues to our attention, both as individual MPs and in debates such as this.

The new clause would impose a new duty on the Care Quality Commission to conduct a review and assess the performance of NHS continuing healthcare, or CHC, by integrated care systems each year. It would also require the CQC to publish a report of its assessment. Again, as with many of the hon. Gentleman’s proposals, I understand and have a degree of sympathy with the intention behind what he seeks to do with the new clause. It is right that clinical commissioning groups, as they are currently called, are held accountable for NHS continuing healthcare within their local health and social care economy. That will also be the case with the national move to integrated care boards, where the board will discharge those duties and be accountable for NHS continuing healthcare as part of its NHS commissioning responsibilities.

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for suggesting that the new clause is, in essence, a probing amendment to highlight the issue, because I am not convinced that it is necessarily the most effective way of doing that, although it certainly airs the issue in Committee. I reassure him that the Government share his view about the importance of ensuring adequate oversight in how health and social care services are delivered, including in this space.

First, by way of some reassurance, NHS England has a core role in overseeing ICBs in the exercise of their functions. The Bill requires NHS England to assess the performance of each ICB every year and ICBs are required to provide NHS England with their annual report, which will include oversight of NHS commissioning and thus, in that context, continuing healthcare.

In addition, as Members will be aware, we have debated an amendment to give the CQC a duty to assess integrated care systems at a system level. The intention is for these reviews to provide the public and the system with independent assurance of the work within the ICS and, in particular, the effectiveness of joined-up working and integration. They, too, will be a valuable way to improve the services provided. The scope would include NHS commissioning and NHS continuing healthcare. We also intend for the CQC to work closely with NHS England, which will be conducting its own assessment of integrated care boards. We therefore think that those are the most effective vehicles for that oversight.

However, I share the hon. Gentleman’s view and suspect that we will all, possibly with a degree of regularity, have constituency cases about continuing healthcare payments and whether the system is working efficiently or otherwise. Local healthcare systems must continue to focus on this and seek to do what they can to make the system as smooth and efficient as possible. We believe that the mechanisms in the Bill are an effective way of doing that, but that in no way implies that individual systems should stop looking at ways of continuing to improve that provision and the mechanism by which continuing healthcare funding is delivered to individuals.

[Justin Madders]

I am grateful to the Minister for his comments—it seems that the message has been received. Obviously, if the ambitions in the Bill to improve integration, collaboration and joint working are to be delivered, this will be one area where we would expect to see significant improvements. I have no doubt that we will return to this in future, but I beg to ask leave the withdraw the motion.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

New Clause 42

Alcohol product labelling

“The Secretary of State must by regulations make provision to ensure alcoholic drinks, as defined by the Department for Health and Social Care’s Low Alcohol Descriptors Guidance, published in 2018, or in future versions of that guidance, display—

(a) the Chief Medical Officers’ low risk drinking guidelines,

(b) a warning that is intended to inform the public of the danger of alcohol consumption,

(c) a warning that is intended to inform the public of the danger of alcohol consumption when pregnant,

(d) a warning that is intended to inform the public of the direct link between alcohol and cancer,

(e) a full list of ingredients and nutritional information.”—(Alex Norris.)

This new clause requires the Secretary of State to introduce secondary legislation on alcohol product labelling.

Brought up, and read the First time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alex Norris]

I am grateful for that intervention. I would certainly not talk down including the very broad messages that the hon. Lady mentions; I know that in an overwhelming number of cases that is available, but, as she says, that is not enough. People are conscious of that message and we should keep reinforcing it, but the jump-off point is, “So what? What am I going to do differently, or what do I need to understand differently?” At the moment, we are not helping them in that process.

This new clause, mirroring clause 127, asks the Secretary of State to introduce secondary legislation to compel the inclusion of this sort of information on products. It is a relatively modest ask, but it promotes informed choice, which in this area would be a very good thing. I do not think we should miss the opportunity to put it in the Bill.

[Edward Argar]

As has been set out, this new clause would make provision to ensure that alcoholic drinks display the chief medical officer’s low-risk drinking guidelines, a warning intended to inform the public of the danger of alcohol consumption, a warning intended to inform the public of the danger of alcohol consumption particularly when pregnant, a warning intended to inform the public of the direct link between alcohol and cancer, and a full list of ingredients and nutritional information.

First, let me say that alcohol labelling is an important part of the UK Government’s overall work on reducing alcohol harm. We believe that people have a right to accurate information and clear advice about alcohol and its health risks to enable them to make informed choices for themselves about their drinking. However, we feel that the new clause is unnecessary, because the Government are about to launch a consultation on these matters.

As part of our tackling obesity strategy, published in July last year, the Government committed to consulting on whether mandatory calorie labelling should be introduced on all pre-packaged alcohol, as well as alcoholic drinks sold in the out-of-home sector. The Government have worked with the alcohol industry to ensure that labels on pre-packaged alcohol reflect the UK chief medical officer’s low-risk drinking guidelines, and the industry has made some progress towards achieving that.

To make further progress, as part of our public consultation on alcohol calorie labelling we will also seek views on whether provision of the chief medical officer’s low-risk drinking guidelines, which include the various specific warnings that the hon. Gentleman mentioned, such as drinking in pregnancy and the drink-drive warning, should be mandatory or should continue on a voluntary basis. Respondents to the consultation will be able to provide suggestions for additional labelling requirements that they would like the Government to consider, such as nutritional information. As I said, that consultation will be launched shortly.

Clause 127 confers a power on the Secretary of State in England, and on Ministers in the devolved Administrations in Scotland and Wales, to make improvements to and amend or repeal articles of European Union Regulation 1169/2011. This EU regulation currently prohibits mandatory calorie labelling on pre-packaged alcohol that is 1.2% alcohol by volume and above. The passage of this legislation will therefore enable Governments to introduce changes such as mandatory calorie labelling on pre-packaged alcohol labels through regulations.

If a decision is made to mandate those labelling requirements following the consultation, the Bill will support the Government in being able to make the necessary changes through a new power in the Food Safety Act 1990. Consistent with the Government’s obligation to consult on matters concerning food law, before any regulations are made, a consultation with interested stakeholders must take place. Therefore, as there is a statutory duty to consult on introducing mandatory labelling requirements and as work on improving alcohol labelling is under way, we do not believe that a separate clause in the Bill is necessary at this time. I encourage the shadow Minister to be reassured by what I have said and to consider not pressing his new clause to a vote.

[Alex Norris]

I am grateful to the Minister for his response. Any measure, as with that in the new clause moved by my hon. Friend the Member for City of Durham, again relies on us waiting for consultation. It feels like an awful lot of consultation, which is of course an important part of doing the process right, but we should never confuse it with action. We have spent an awful lot of time in this space, and it feels as if there is a danger that we are into soft-pedalling territory, rather than action territory. Nevertheless, I heard what the Minister said, that it is an active process, so on that basis I will not press for a Division. We will reflect on the issue on the Labour Benches but, widely among those interested in the area, there is a growing sense of impatience. I hope that us giving the Minister and the Government space to continue the process is not confused with us being content that we are going quickly enough—I feel strongly that we are not. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

New Clause 43

Annual report on alcohol treatment services: assessment of outcomes

“(1) The Secretary of State must lay before each House of Parliament at the start of each financial year a report on—

(a) the ways in which alcohol treatment providers have been supported in tackling excess mortality, alcohol related hospital admissions, and the burden of disease resulting from alcohol consumption, and

(b) the number of people identified as requiring support who are receiving treatment.

(2) Alongside the publication of the report, the Secretary of State must publish an assessment of the impact of the level of funding for alcohol treatment providers on their ability to deliver a high-quality service that enables patient choice.”—(Alex Norris.)

This new clause would require the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care to make an annual statement on how the funding received by alcohol treatment providers has supported their work to improve treatment and reduce harm.

Brought up, and read the First time.

[Alex Norris]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

The new clause would put a duty on the Secretary of State to make an annual statement on the spend on, and impact of, alcohol treatment services. Each day in the UK, 70 people die of alcohol-related causes. Alcohol is linked to 200 different diseases and injuries and costs the NHS £3.5 billion each year. Good alcohol treatment is essential to support those with alcohol dependence towards recovery. That is important for individuals and for the collective, because it reduces emergency services call-outs, unnecessary hospital admissions and avoidable deaths.

Despite the importance of treatment, even going into the pandemic, only one in five dependent drinkers were believed to be in treatment—that is 80% lacking healthcare. The incomprehensible and frustrating picture in this country in recent years, between 2016 and 2018, is that more than two thirds of local authorities in England cut their alcohol-treatment budgets, and in 17 of them those cuts were greater than 50%.

Having been a local councillor in that period, responsible for public health in my community, I know that no colleague did that because they thought it was the right thing to do for their community; they did it because the public health grant in this country has been run down over the past decade, which has been an absolute tragedy. Those are the sorts of services that we have lost.

A very visible example comes from St Mungo’s—we all know its wonderful work—which estimates that funding cuts have meant that 12,000 fewer rough sleepers accessed support in 2018-19 than would have done had funding remained at 2010 levels. The covid pandemic has only worsened the situation, leading to significant and sustained increases in the rate of unplanned admissions for alcoholic liver disease. This issue is very important now, in the very immediate term. We need to act.

Owing to resource cuts, however, many alcohol treatment providers have been forced to reduce their offer. A lack of outreach resources leads to people with some of the most complex needs missing out on support, while the reduction in capacity means that many of those at the lower levels, where an earlier intervention would be very impactful, miss out as well. Those with greater dependency are not getting specialised treatment or, in some cases, are not getting any treatment at all.

I strongly believe that the Bill needs to address the importance of alcohol treatment in terms of its funding and impact. Requiring the Secretary of State to report to Parliament on the ways in which alcohol treatment services have been supported and funded, and on the number of people requiring treatment and how that need is being met, will keep the issue at the forefront.

The Government’s own alcohol strategy states that alcohol treatment services

“offer the most immediate opportunity to reduce alcohol-related admissions and to reduce NHS costs.”

We also know that for every £1 invested in alcohol treatment £3 is yielded in return, rising to £26 over 10 years. Recovery also yields powerful dividends for families and communities affected by addiction, but at the moment we are going the wrong way in terms of our commitment to this issue. What I am asking for in the new clause, and I think it is a relatively modest ask, is for the Secretary of State to have on an annual basis an honest and candid assessment of the situation in this country, and then to account for the activity that is being taken to meet the need. It would be a very powerful statement that the Secretary of State and the Department have a grip of the issue and are committed to it, so I hope to find the Minister in listening mode.

[Edward Argar]

As ever, I am grateful to the shadow Minister for his exposition of the new clause, which would introduce a duty on the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care to publish an annual statement on how the funding received by alcohol treatment providers has supported their work to improve treatment and reduce harm. It would also introduce a duty on the Secretary of State to publish an assessment of the impact of the level of funding for alcohol treatment providers on their ability to deliver a high-quality service that enables patient choice. I join the shadow Minister in paying tribute to St Mungo’s for the work that it does, which I think we would all recognise across the House.

We do not think that a new reporting requirement introduced by the new clause is necessary as significant work is already under way in this area. Outcomes for local authority-funded alcohol treatment services are already published via the Office for Health Improvement and Disparities’ national drug treatment monitoring system. They are monthly and quarterly reports provided at a local authority level, and annual reports at a national level. The Office for Health Improvement and Disparities also publishes annual data on estimated numbers of alcohol dependent adults in each local authority in England. Health commissioners can use that resource to estimate the number of adults in their area who need specialist treatment, supporting them to appropriately plan and improve alcohol treatment services.

The Office for Health Improvement and Disparities provides a number of data tools to support local areas to compare their performance against that of other areas, and against national performance. Those tools include the public health outcomes framework, local alcohol profiles for England, and the spend and outcomes tool. With respect to spending, local authorities are currently required to report on their spend on alcohol harm prevention and alcohol treatment on an annual basis to the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities. Part 2 of Dame Carol Black’s independent review of drugs was published in July 2021 and the Government, in their initial response, published on 27 July 2021, agreed to carry forward its recommendations and publish a new drugs strategy later this year.

The review recommended increased transparency and accountability from local authorities on how funding is spent. Although the subject of the review was drugs, the implementation of that recommendation will apply to both drug and alcohol treatment through mechanisms such as an improved commissioning standard, which is currently in development. I therefore encourage the shadow Minister not to press the new clause to a Division.

[Alex Norris]

I cannot quite accept that answer from the Minister. I understand the significant work that he talks about, and the different places where data is available. Those things tell us what is going on; they do not tell us why, and what we intend to do about it as a country. As a result, I do not think that is delivering for us, and we see that in the very difficult outcomes. On that basis, I am afraid I will have to press the new clause to a Division.

Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.