Tobacco and Vapes Bill

Earl Russell Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 13th November 2025 Grand Committee

[Earl Russell (LD)]

My Lords, I shall speak to my Amendments 195 and 196 on reviews and compliance; I thank my noble friend Lady Walmsley for adding her name in support of them.

We support this Bill and its core intention of creating a smoke-free generation. More than that, we support the fact that this Bill is making progressive changes with the aim of having lasting impacts. However, it is often these very forward-thinking ideas that require further reviews and guidance because they are, by their very nature, new and different. It is surprising to me that the Bill as drafted does not contain any form of formal review mechanism. We think that a review mechanism is fundamentally necessary and useful, the intention being to support the aims of the Bill and not to detract from them in any way. It is in this spirit that I speak to my amendments.

Amendment 195 would require the Secretary of State to conduct and publish a review of the Tobacco and Vapes Act within six months of 1 July 2030, when those born on or after 1 January 2009 will have reached the age of 21. This review would evaluate how effective the Act has been, including whether the legislation has reduced the use of tobacco and nicotine in the first affected generation and whether it has achieved its intended objectives and public health outcomes. It would also examine any unintended effects, such as challenges with enforcement, widening health inequalities or any growth of illicit or unregulated markets. This early-stage review process would ensure that Parliament can assess the policy’s impact on young adults and make timely adjustments if any are required.

My Amendment 196 would mandate a further, more comprehensive review of the Act’s implementation when the same cohort reaches the age of 25, four years later, to be published within six months of 1 July 2034. This second review is designed to assess the longer-term success of the legislation, including changes in smoking and vaping prevalence; impact on public health outcomes; and the role of cessation programmes. It would also explore any emerging social or economic consequences, offering a deeper understanding of the Act’s sustained effectiveness. This later review would provide Parliament with a robust evidence base to determine whether further legislation or policy adjustment is needed.

Together, these two amendments seek to ensure that future Governments do what this Bill sets out to do: to protect the next generation from the harms of tobacco and nicotine, and to do so through measures grounded in evidence, transparency and sound policy-making. My amendments are designed to strengthen the Bill’s core purpose as it is advanced over time. They would help to ensure that the Bill’s stated outcomes are reviewed and assessed, and that any further amendments are considered. They would ensure that evidence is examined at each critical stage of implementation. They would ensure that, where adjustments may be needed—whether in enforcement, cessation support or tackling unintended consequences—Parliament would be properly informed and, therefore, able to act.

The age of 21 is the first major milestone when we can meaningfully assess the outcomes. It is of foremost importance that the impact of the legislation be considered in relation to rates of vaping in the UK. It is vital that unintended consequences be examined if they emerge, particularly in relation to rates of vaping. This later phrase is vital. Every public policy and piece of health legislation brings with it the possibility of unintended consequences and side-effects, whether they concern enforcement, equity or the rise of illegal markets.

I believe it is important that these matters be reviewed. It is also essential that the review be based on adequate data which is used to re-examine the policy and check that it is effective. If policies emerge, it is important that this legislation be reviewed. These amendments are about ensuring delivery and that the Bill, when it becomes an Act, does what it sets out to do. I want to see a feedback loop between policy ambition, lived experience and data. These questions of enforcement and of rising age restrictions are important, as is the issue of black markets, so the Government need to review this legislation to see that it does what is intended. My hope is very much that the Minister will at least agree to take the principles of regular, evidence-based reviews back to the department, because this is a genuine offer to try to make sure that the Bill is effective over time.

Turning briefly to the other amendments in this group, Amendment 189 in the names of the noble Lord, Lord Kamall, and the noble Earl, Lord Howe, is also about implementing a review of the Act. The review proposed in their amendment would come after five years and include laying a copy of that review before Parliament. In a different vein from my review, it would also include a review of the impact on small and micro-businesses. I am tempted to support their amendment, too. The central focus of the Bill is a smoke-free generation. That should not be at the expense of small businesses, but the most important element here is that we get a smoke-free generation, so I am minded to lend my personal support to Amendment 189.

Amendment 216, spoken to by the noble Lord, Lord Murray, again seeks to put forward a review. Where I part company on his amendment is its expiring nature. While we support reviews of the legislation, the review needs to happen and the consequences come afterwards. To put the expiry in the Bill sets up the possibility that a future Government of a different persuasion could use it as an opportunity to remove important elements of what will then be an Act, which we would not want to see happen.

I will leave it to the Minister to respond to the other amendments in this group on the Windsor Framework.

[Lord Dodds of Duncairn (DUP)]

My Lords, I support the amendment standing in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, and of course Amendment 200, which stands in her name and my own. I look forward to the Minister’s response to this debate, because she is now expected to deliver not just political answers but legal judgments. I note that the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hermer, is not usually so reticent in making his opinions known, but he seems incredibly bashful when it comes to the Windsor Framework. He has of course been known to have an involvement in Northern Ireland affairs in the past, so I look forward to what the Minister has to say on that.

The legislation before us in the latest in a whole series of measures, both primary and secondary, which are affected by the Windsor Framework or protocol. “Windsor Framework” is of course just a new name for what is substantially the Northern Ireland protocol. A few minor amendments were made but it is substantially that protocol, as agreed by the previous Government with the European Union. Section 7A of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 is, as the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, outlined, the conduit or means by which European law takes precedence over any UK legislation, primary or secondary, in over 300 areas covering vast swathes of the economy of Northern Ireland. Let that sink in: when we talk about Brexit and sovereignty, part of the United Kingdom is subject to European law in over 300 areas.

Just this past month, we have been debating various issues, including the supply of veterinary medicines to Northern Ireland, some of which may be discontinued because they do not conform to EU standards, causing major problems for animal health. The Government are showing no urgency in addressing this. The Select Committee on which I have the privilege to serve looked at this matter yesterday; I hope that we will get some action. We also looked at the issue of dental amalgam, and now we have this tobacco Bill. In all these issues affecting Northern Ireland, UK legislation is disapplied or cannot apply because of the Windsor Framework/Northern Ireland protocol.

Northern Ireland is bound in this area by the tobacco products directive—directive 2014/40/EU—because it is listed in annexe 2 of the protocol. That is where we get the figure of 300 areas of law. Of course, although we can debate all these issues, and Northern Ireland representatives, and others, in the House of Commons and in this place can give their views, at the end of the day the decisions are made by the European Commission. The European Union will decide what happens in part of the United Kingdom, regardless of the views of anyone elected in the UK Parliament or the Stormont Northern Ireland Assembly, of whatever party, or anyone in this House.

That should perturb us all. It is not just a unionist concern; it is a concern for any self-respecting elected politician of whatever party that they are not able to make laws for the people they represent. Ultimately, unless this matter is addressed overall, it will have grave ramifications after the 2027 Assembly elections.

Article 24 of directive 2014/40/EU states:

“Member States may not … prohibit or restrict the placing on the market of tobacco or related products”.


It seems to me that, on any reasonable reading of the Bill—as backed up by the former Northern Ireland Attorney-General, Mr Larkin, who has been referred to—it does indeed fall foul of the tobacco products directive.

The Government say that they intend it to apply across the four nations of the UK, that they are confident that this is the case and that we should all be assured by that. But they have given previous such assurances, as has been referred to. They told us in very clear terms that the Rwanda Bill, for instance, would apply throughout the United Kingdom and that there would be no loophole in Northern Ireland, but the Northern Ireland courts inevitably struck that down. They judged not only that it was in breach of the European Convention on Human Rights but that it was disapplied in Northern Ireland. It was not just a declaration of incompatibility but a disapplication of the law in Northern Ireland, because it fell foul of Article 2 of the protocol. The protocol reigns supreme. It is the same in other immigration cases and in the legacy legislation.

There should be no doubt about the importance and width that the Northern Ireland courts are giving to this legislation. It is very clear: the European Union (Withdrawal) Act makes it absolutely explicit. I ask the Minister to outline exactly what the basis is for the Government’s confidence and assurances—and not just to reassert that they are confident or assured that it complies. What is the basis for these assertions and what will they do if, ultimately, the courts strike the legislation down as far as Northern Ireland is concerned?

Will the Minister and the Government give a commitment today that, if, at the end of the day, the courts agree with the judgments or opinions that have been given by learned former Attorney-Generals, they will come back to this House and legislate to override the disapplication? Why do they not adopt the amendments suggested here in this place to reassure everybody that there can be no question or doubt about the legislation’s application across the four countries of the United Kingdom?

Why not remove any prospect of litigation or any disapplication in Northern Ireland? This would give some reassurance that the Government are serious about the matter. A few weeks ago in the House of Commons, Secretary of State Hilary Benn said in response to a question that it was Labour’s aspiration to impose the Bill in full in Northern Ireland. What is the position—aspiration, intention, expectation? What about a guarantee through adopting these amendments?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, I shall speak to my Amendment 144 in this group. Before I do so, I express my support for the argument made so eloquently by my noble friend Lord Udny-Lister on behalf of my noble friend Lord Mott. The amendments in this group should be relatively uncontroversial because we are all, I think, pushing in the same direction, and one of the key features of where we are going is the protection of children, on which we are all united.

My amendment relates to an area where the Government have misfired slightly in drafting the Bill. They seek to regulate the flavours of vapes. There is a most intriguing further amendment in this group, in the name of the noble Earl, Lord Russell, which seeks to tease out what the Government mean by the “flavour” of a vape. Both he and I are trying, I think, to come at the question of flavour as distinct from the description applied to that flavour. My amendment would substitute the word “descriptors” for the word “flavour”.

I speak as a vaper. I have vaped—not smoked—vapes that are described on the packet as “blueberry ice”, “mango ice”, and things of that sort. I can say immediately from my experience that none of them tastes like what they say. I can assure the Committee that the vape called “mango ice” does not bear any resemblance to anything that you could describe as a mango, and very much the same can be said of blueberries and so forth. I like eating blueberries—they are very good if you keep them in the fridge—so I know what they taste like. I like mangoes as well, but they do not taste like these vapes.

I think it fair to say that what we really want to control is the description applied. I will take this in two parts: first in relation to children and then in relation to adults. It is obviously the case that a descriptor can be applied to a vape that is designed to induce—if not seduce—a child to smoke a vape. If I saw something on the shelf described as “bubblegum mango”—I am not a marketing man, so I may not have chosen the best example—I would think that that descriptor was designed to appeal to a child. The Government should be able to regulate the descriptor on those vapes so as to eliminate descriptions which are designed to—or may inadvertently—appeal to a child. But that is not the power taken in this clause; it is a power to regulate the flavour, which, as I say, is both subjective and often at some distance from the descriptor that is applied.

The Minister may say, “I take your point on that, but I still want the power to regulate flavours because I am thinking now about adults”. Adults can, of course, see past descriptors. Most adults are not likely to find much appeal in something describing itself as bubblegum ice, bubblegum mango or whatever; none the less, there might be flavours that adults who do not like the taste of tobacco are seduced by, in the same way as menthol cigarettes were used to appeal to adults who did not like tobacco, and so on. I can see that.

However, it is also important to remember that vapes are a very important smoking cessation tool. It is clear from evidence from the industry that having a range of different flavours available makes them attractive to adults—not in a way that seduces them into wickedness, but that makes it easier for them to use vapes to give up smoking. I am trying to be helpful, and I am sure that the noble Earl is seeking to be helpful as well. We both agree on the protection of children, but we think that the Government have—rather lazily, perhaps—aimed at the wrong thing here with regard to flavours. It is about the marketing. It is the descriptor, rather than the flavour, at which the Government should be aiming.

I hope the Minister will accept my amendment in the spirit in which it is intended: that of being helpful. I also hope that she will agree to look more closely at this matter and perhaps come back with a more subtle and nuanced amendment on Report.

[Earl Russell (LD)]

My Lords, I shall speak to my Amendment 146 on vaping devices, and I thank my noble friend Lady Walmsley and the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, for adding their names in support of it. I have been slightly outed already but, to be clear, this is a probing amendment. However, it touches on an important and genuine issue: regulation and the Government’s intention to define “flavour” in a vaping product.

Before I speak to my amendment, I want to be clear: I fully recognise the need to prevent young people vaping. I support age restrictions; changing names; making sure that vaping products are not appealing; ensuring that such products are not marketed; ensuring that they are hidden in shops and counter displays; descriptors; and every other tool in the toolbox to make sure that every trick big tobacco can come up with to put these products in the hands of young people is restricted. However, I firmly believe that, if this Government or a future one used these powers to ban or severely restrict vape flavours, it would be a retrograde step in the fight to stop smoking. As the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, said, it is the flavour in vapes that reminds ex-smokers just how nasty cigarettes really are when they lapse—and ex-smokers surely do lapse.

As we have heard throughout the passage of this Bill, there are strong and legitimate concerns about the rise of vaping among young people. We have just passed a crossover point whereby more young people are now vaping than smoking, so I absolutely share those concerns. Nobody in this Room wants to see young people taking up vaping; nor do they want big tobacco to be able to start a whole new industry for a whole new generation, through which vaping is marketed at our young people.

However, if the Government are genuinely serious about taking this problem on, they need to do so through effective regulation, and that must start with clear definitions. My amendment is tongue-in-cheek in its approach, but it highlights a serious issue: the Government have created a bit of a heffalump trap for themselves here. I remind noble Lords that, as drafted, the legislation says that the Secretary of State may, through regulations, make provisions about the flavour of relevant products, and that the regulations may make

“provision for a determination to be made by a person authorised”.

My proposed new clause does not prejudge what those definitions should be. It simply asks a very reasonable question: by what criteria will the Government determine that a vaping product has a flavour? Once we start looking at this, the situation becomes absurdly complicated. This might be the philosophical background in my ancestry, but many vapes on the market today use a combination of chemicals that exist not to add fruit or sweet flavours but to mask the harsh taste of nicotine. Some add traces of methanol or cooling agents that are technically flavourless, but they change the sensory experience of those who vape. I do not know whether those will count as flavours. Under what threshold would they be counted? Which chemical compositions or flavours in these products would not be? Then there is the question of packaging, as we have heard, which brings up the descriptor point. Flavour is as much about perception as what might be contained in the product. If a vape has “mango ice” or “blueberry ice” on the package, but has no flavour, is that a flavour?

These are major complications, and I believe fundamentally that the route the Government are going down will end up in poorly drafted law, which will be hard to enforce. It will not work or do what the Government set out to do. It will lead to legal complication and challenges, and that is not good for the aims of the Bill, which I support. There really could be practical consequences and they go quite far. Concerning manufacturers, how will they comply with this when the Government are not clear? How will small retailers ensure that they are compliant with the terms of the legislation? Trading standard officers who have to enforce this stuff will find it complicated to do so.

I say again that for many adult smokers who turn to vapes to give up, as I think we have heard, the flavour element in the vapes is the thing that keeps them from going back to tobacco. There is strong evidence on this point, from Public Health England and numerous international studies, that it is about the wide availability of these flavours so that people can make a personal choice. None of them taste like their descriptor, but people can find a flavour that works for them personally. I just do not want the Government to act too harshly and crudely in this area and end up by creating perverse consequences, which are completely contrary to the stated intentions of the Bill.

I absolutely want to keep this stuff out of children’s hands. I support every other measure that the Government are taking in the Bill, but I come out strongly against this issue of controlling and restricting flavour. My amendment is really a tongue-in-cheek way of asking the Government to think again on it.

Turning briefly to the other amendments, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Mott, for his Amendment 142. I now understand what his amendment is about: that despite the ban, it is still basically a disposable vape. It is used once and chucked away but it has 1,600 puffs in it. These things are cheap; again, they are marketed at children and disposable, so they are e-waste. I had an amendment earlier about creating minimum pricing for vapes but I think that, fundamentally, the Minister misunderstood what I was doing in that amendment. She said that it would make vaping more expensive than smoking, whereas that is fundamentally not true, because it is about buying a base unit that might last for three or four years. Although you would be paying £25, that base unit would stay with you for a long time and by doing it in that way, you are not needlessly generating e-waste. I would like to revisit that with the Minister prior to Report, but I basically support that amendment. These devices should not be in the hands of our children; they are absolutely designed to get children addicted to nicotine. They are not good for the environment, so let us get rid of them.

I absolutely agree with Amendment 144 on descriptors; I think we are on the same page and speaking about the same thing. My amendment might be a bit nuanced and tongue in cheek but we share an opinion.

[Baroness Fox of Buckley (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I shall speak in defence of flavours, especially regarding Amendments 144 and 146. Over the last five years, 21% of adult smokers have quit smoking. Nearly half of them used vapes as part of that successful quit journey. I am one of those people. I started with single-use vapes, but they got banned, so I now use the replacements, which are used as much as single-use vapes. They have been crucial to millions of adults who have done the same. Their attractions are ease of use, convenience, prevalence in a wide range of retail outlets and, yes, flavours. They made the distinction from smoking clear for me. As the noble Earl, Lord Russell, explained, that becomes important. I was able to switch to suit my taste. I was trying to move away from the taste of tobacco—that was the point.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

Before the Minister answers that, may I ask her another question? Which agency regulates and licenses the various flavours used in vapes? Is it the Food Standards Agency or some other agency?

[Earl Russell (LD)]

I apologise but I, too, want to make a brief point. I welcome the fact that the Government are conducting a review and collecting evidence; that is good. I hope that those things will be used to make fundamental, good policy. However, there is a tension here because we could have a situation where flavours are appealing both to children, whom we do not want to take up vaping, and to ex-smokers, whom we do not want to go back to smoking because we have taken flavours away. What I have not heard the Minister say is that there will be an examination of price in that gathering of evidence. Doing more to raise the price of vapes, keeping them out of the territory of pocket money, is important in making sure that young children do not get access to these products. I encourage the Government to include that in their call for evidence.

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

I thank noble Lords. On that last point, made by the noble Earl, Lord Russell, respectfully, I feel that we have covered that area at considerable length. I understand how strongly he feels about it.

On the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, currently, it is the MHRA that regulates vapes.

More broadly, I reiterate that I will be pleased to write to noble Lords to clarify still further what I have said. Overall, I emphasise that what noble Lords are raising in general are the exact reasons why we have a call for evidence and why we will consult. It is not the right moment to be categoric, but I take the point about noble Lords being concerned about what is permitted in the Bill. On that point, I will be very pleased to write.