Great British Energy Bill

Earl Russell Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 15th January 2025 Grand Committee

[Viscount Trenchard (Con)]

My Lords, I rise to follow the noble Lord, Lord Vaux, in speaking to Amendment 93, which he moved on behalf on my noble friend Lady Noakes. I have also added my name to this amendment.

As has been said several times in our debates, this is in essence a framework or enabling Bill but one that gives a large number of Henry VIII powers to the Secretary of State. A requirement to produce a framework document setting out the operating and financial principles that GBE will use would be a significant improvement to the Bill, as the noble Lord, Lord Vaux, explained so eloquently. It is essential that the principles underpinning the relationship between the Secretary of State and GBE should be publicly understood and supported. The arguments that I have previously used in relation to my Amendment 86A also apply here; other relevant public bodies, as mentioned in that amendment, clearly include GBN, NWF, NESO, Ofgem and Mission Control.

I also support my noble friend Lady Noakes in her Amendment 121A, which I think is justified in the circumstances, but I would certainly like to hear the Minister’s view on it. Amendment 121A would ensure that the framework document is laid before Parliament before the Act comes into force.

[Earl Russell (LD)]

My Lords, I shall speak briefly on this group of amendments.

I generally give my support to Amendment 93. I understand that these things are being done quickly and urgently to get GBE established and that the Government need to get that done, but there is a general lack of detail in the Bill and we do not have the framework agreement. If the Minister could update the Committee on where that framework document is and what stage it is at, that would be useful. In the interests of trying to find a compromise and a way forward on these issues, I do not know whether it might be possible for the Minister to provide the equivalent of heads of terms or to say something from the Dispatch Box about what he would expect the framework document to cover or to send us an outline of what is likely to be in that document. We are keen to support the principles of this Bill, but the Bill is extremely short and lacks detail.

On the other side of the fence, there is a slight feeling that we are being asked to approve things without knowing what it is we are approving. If it were possible to find a way forward on these issues before Report, that would be appreciated, but I am interested to hear from the Minister what stage these documents are at and what impediments there may be beyond the Minister’s control in these matters.

[Lord Offord of Garvel (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lady Noakes, in her absence, for her amendments in this group. In fact, this amendment, Amendment 93, ties closely with Amendment 125 in my name, which would ensure that this Bill does not come into force until a financial framework document has been published. Together, these amendments address an essential issue in the governance of GBE: the need for proper financial oversight and clear frameworks that ensure that this body is held accountable. That is the reason why I support Amendment 93 and why it is so critical to the Bill—because it would require the Secretary of State to prepare a framework document that sets out not just the operating principles but the financial principles through which GBE will pursue its strategic objectives.

Without this clear framework, GBE would operate without the financial clarity and accountability required to protect public funds and to ensure that GBE’s financial practices align with the UK’s broader energy strategy. A financial framework is not just a bureaucratic detail; it is fundamental because the energy sector is complex and fast-moving. GB Energy will be responsible for substantial public investment. Without this financial framework, there is a risk of financial mismanagement and inefficiency or lack of transparency. The framework simply provides clear guidelines on budgeting, expenditure, revenue generation and risk management; it also ensures that GBE’s financial decisions align with the Government’s energy and climate goals, such as achieving net-zero emissions and maintaining energy security.

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[Viscount Trenchard (Con)]

My Lords, I support my noble friend Lord Offord’s Amendment 94, to which I have added my name. I have also added my name to Amendment 103 in the names of the noble Lords, Lord Vaux and Lord Cameron, and my noble friend Lady Noakes.

The noble Lord, Lord Vaux, made the same point that I tried to make on Monday much more eloquently than I did: GBE and GBN are not comparable institutions. Unfortunately, it seems that the Minister’s department does not recognise that. I refer to the Explanatory Notes at page 6, paragraph 22. The power to give directions in the hands of the Secretary of State

“is consistent with the power that the Government has to direct comparable institutions, for example: the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero has a statutory power to direct Great British Nuclear, although, to date, this has never been used”.

I repeat the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Vaux, that, despite what this says, I cannot think that they are comparable institutions.

Both Amendments 94 and 103 require an independent person to carry out a review of GBE’s effectiveness. Of the two, I prefer Amendment 103, which requires the independent person to review the extent to which investments by GBE have encouraged private sector investment in those projects. Amendment 94 requires an annual independent review, whereas Amendment 103 requires such a review only once every three years. Perhaps we could compromise at two years.

I have also added my name to Amendment 102, in the name of the noble Earl, Lord Russell. This requires GBE to report on its relationships with other connected bodies and is, to some extent, similar to some of the other amendments we have debated. It is obviously a requirement of working together on strategic objectives and directions that GBE should maintain excellent relationships with its stakeholders. One of the ways to achieve that would be by adopting the noble Earl’s amendment, and I look forward to hearing him speak to it and to hearing the Minister’s response.

[Earl Russell (LD)]

My Lords, I rise to speak to my Amendment 102 in this group, which concerns independent review and governance. It would insert a new clause after Clause 7 on Great British Energy stakeholder relationships. To be honest, it is a bit of a probing amendment and one that is looking for a bit of reassurance from the Minister.

The amendment argues:

“Within one year of the day on which this Act is passed, and every two years thereafter, Great British Energy must publish a report regarding its relationship with … Great British Nuclear … the Office of Gas and Electricity Markets (Ofgem) … National Energy System Operator (NESO) … the UK Infrastructure Bank … the Crown Estate”.


Obviously, it is essential that Great British Energy publishes reports and that these are available. It is important that we have a good understanding of how Great British Energy is working in practice. That involves understanding how it is establishing its working relationships alongside other partners and fulfilling its missions and goals, as we work towards net zero. It extends to objectives and joint projects and asks, “What problems are happening?” These are all key issues in the energy transition, which is itself a complicated business that involves lots of partner organisations and joint and crossover responsibilities. This is already a crowded space—or a tangled web, if you like—in which Great British Energy is being created. Indeed, the delivery of GB Energy’s goals will happen only if the new organisation builds strong and lasting relationships that develop well and help create both joint working and good outcomes.

I want to say a word about the Crown Estate Bill, if I may. It is the cornerstone of GB Energy’s relationship with the Crown Estate; their partnership was announced on the same day that GB Energy was created. Clearly—certainly for the initial part of GB Energy’s life—that partnership will be about developing floating offshore wind with the Crown Estate. As part of the Crown Estate Bill, an amendment was agreed in order that the Crown Estate produces an annual report on its relationship with GB Energy. So that is already happening on the Crown Estate side. I ask the Minister to give an assurance that, from the Government’s point of view, there is no reason why that requirement would not be mirrored on GB Energy’s side. I cannot see one; it seems like common sense to me. As others have said, reporting is a general issue running across this Bill.

I note what the Minister has said today in relation to group 10. I also note what he has said about the possibility for ongoing parliamentary scrutiny. Ministers are responsible, of course, for example at Question time. As the Minister has confirmed today at the Dispatch Box, GB Energy will be subject to scrutiny by all the Select Committees across both Houses of Parliament, but it is important that these relationships are reported on via an annual report. I would like to hear some reassurance from the Minister on that.

I turn briefly to the other amendments in this group. As we have heard, Amendment 94 in the names of the noble Lord, Lord Offord of Garvel, and the noble Viscount, Lord Trenchard, would require the Secretary of State to appoint an independent person to review annually the effectiveness of Great British Energy in delivering its objectives, meeting its strategic priorities and complying with its directions. The independent review would be required to cover Clauses 3, 5 and 6 of the Bill.

I would be interested in the Minister’s response to this amendment. My worry is that this would be overly burdensome for the organisation. I am not certain that I was able to find another comparable organisation where these conditions applied, so my concern is whether we are asking for something that is not on a level playing field with other, similar types of organisations. I note as well that strategic directions can be given and, as I said, there are also other methods of scrutiny, so it would be the Minister’s right, at any point, to give the strategic direction for that to happen.

Amendment 103 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Vaux of Harrowden, would require an independent review of the effectiveness of Great British Energy in achieving its objectives and the extent to which it had encouraged private investment. But this would be every three years. I was interested to hear what the noble Lord said in relation to the UK Infrastructure Bank. Again, my worry is whether this is a level playing field, but I was interested that the noble Lord said that that is part of that organisation and how it works. That makes me more inclined to lend support to his amendment.

[Lord Vaux of Harrowden (CB)]

I am sorry to interrupt the noble Earl. This was lifted directly, almost word for word, from the relevant legislation, the UK Infrastructure Bank Act.

[Earl Russell (LD)]

I thank the noble Lord. I would be keen to hear what the Minister has to say in response to that amendment.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, this has been a very interesting debate and I am grateful to noble Lords for what they have said. I will start with Amendment 102, tabled by the noble Earl, Lord Russell, and supported by the noble Viscount, Lord Trenchard. As he said, the amendment focuses on Great British Energy’s relationships with its key stakeholders and would require the company to publish a report every two years detailing its relationship with a number of named public bodies.

As I have already said, we of course expect and want Great British Energy to enter into a number of partnerships or relationships with other public bodies. This will include public bodies beyond those highlighted by the noble Earl, including, for example, those operating in the devolved Administrations—although I agree with him very much about the importance of the relationship with the Crown Estate.

I think it was implied in what I said earlier that we are absolutely certain, as part of the rigorous reporting requirements that the organisation will need to take part in through its annual reports and accounts, that it will report on activities undertaken as part of these partnerships. That seems to me a perfectly sensible request, which I can affirm readily. In view of that, I am not sure that you need a separate report, but we can make it very clear to GBE that we expect it to report on this regularly. We have already publicly committed to setting out how Great British Energy and the National Wealth Fund will collaborate and complement each other. I can assure noble Lords that we have made the same commitment on Great British Energy’s relationship with Great British Nuclear.

In terms of Great British Energy’s relationship with Ofgem and the National Energy System Operator, again, we would expect GBE to be subject to the same legal and regulatory frameworks as other entities. Clearly, when it comes to the Crown Estate, I readily say that, of course, GBE will report on its relationship, just as the noble Earl said. The Crown Estate will be doing similar, and we hope that there will be a consistency of approach in their reports. I am sure that there will be.

Turning to Amendments 94 and 103, which would require independent reviews of Great British Energy’s effectiveness, I thank the noble Lords, Lord Offord, Lord Vaux and Lord Cameron, and the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, for putting their names to them. We all agree that Great British Energy needs to be accountable, transparent and clear about how it is delivering against its objectives and the statement of strategic priorities. The Bill already ensures that GBE will provide regular updates through its annual reports and accounts. These documents will be laid before Parliament, ensuring public accountability. Clause 5 provides that GBE must “act in accordance” with the priorities set out by the Secretary of State. To ensure this, Great British Energy must publish a strategic plan on how it will deliver those priorities, and it will update this plan regularly.

On the question, generally, of a review, I certainly understand the point that noble Lords have made and agree that reviews are important. I am prepared to consider the principle of a review between Committee and Report. I would not want to get into a debate about how regular those reviews should be. It is important that GBE has a good run before it is subject to such a review. Equally, I do not think you want a review happening on a regular annual basis because that would detract from its ability to perform effectively, but I understand the principle of a review. I will take this away without commitment at this stage, but I am happy to talk to noble Lords between now and Report about it.

Coming back to additionality, we obviously agree that it is an important principle, and we would expect Great British Energy to learn from the UKIB/National Wealth Fund approach. Of course, GBE has rather a wider role than the National Wealth Fund, particularly in that it is not just an investor but a developer, and it has an important future role to play in trying to get rid of some of the barriers to investment that we have seen in the energy sector.

Having said that, I think additionality will be covered. Equally, we accept that undertaking reviews from time to time is important. But they should not be done so frequently that they lose impact in what they are there to do. I hope noble Lords will accept that I have tried to be constructive in my response to these amendments.

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Moved by

[Earl Russell]

95: After Clause 7, insert the following new Clause—
“Budget report(1) Great British Energy must publish an annual budget report and send it to the Energy Security and Net Zero Committee, or any successor Committee, of the House of Commons.(2) This report must include but is not limited to—(a) a breakdown of current and expected funding sources;(b) spending per sector;(c) grid spending;(d) future spending;(e) estimations of future profitability.(3) A representative of Great British Energy must appear before the Energy Security and Net Zero Committee, or any successor Committee, if requested by the Committee.”Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment requires GBE to publish an annual budget report.

[Earl Russell (LD)]

My Lords, in moving Amendment 95, I will speak also to my Amendments 96 and 97, on accountability to Parliament. This group is all about GB Energy reporting to Parliament. As I have said, the Bill is quite short and some bits are missing, so I think noble Lords are just looking for as much reassurance as the Minister can give on these matters.

As the Bill stands, there are no real basic requirements for GB Energy to produce an annual report, or requirements for it to report to Parliament, beyond those in Clause 7 and what the Minister has said at the Dispatch Box today. I note that GB Energy will be subject to the same general reporting as other arm’s-length government organisations.

My Amendment 95 would ask GB Energy to publish an annual budget report, which would be sent to the Energy Security and Net Zero Committee or a successor committee of the House of Commons. That report must include but not be limited to,

“a breakdown of current and expected funding sources … spending per sector … grid spending … future spending … estimations of future profitability”.

It goes on:

“A representative of Great British Energy must appear before the Energy Security and Net Zero Committee, or any successor Committee, if requested”.


Amendment 96 says:

“Great British Energy must publish an annual report and send it to the Energy Security and Net Zero Committee, or any successor Committee, of the House of Commons”,


and that that report

“must consider Great British Energy functions and activity in the contribution to the following … supporting local communities and economies … the achievement of the United Kingdom’s climate and environmental targets … the relationship with The Crown Estate … a just transition to green energy … a jobs and skills transition into the green economy”.

It would also provide that Great British Energy must appear before that committee if requested.

Amendment 97 would require GB Energy to commit to an ongoing sustainable development review of its activities. It states:

“Great British Energy must keep under review the impact of their activities on the achievement of sustainable development in the United Kingdom”.


This would require GB Energy to keep under constant review the impact of its activities on sustainable development goals, as recognised by the United Nations, the Commonwealth and other bodies that refer to human rights developments, which aim to meet the economic, environmental and social needs of the present, while also ensuring the ability of future generations to meet their own needs.

At the outset I acknowledge to the Committee that my amendment is a direct copy of one tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, and so skilfully negotiated with the noble Lord, Lord Livermore, the Financial Secretary to the Treasury, as part of the Crown Estate Bill. It was agreed as a government amendment to that Bill as it left your Lordships’ House. I wish to put on the record my thanks to both of them for their work in getting the amendment into the Bill. My reasons for bringing the amendment here again are, as I said, simply to mirror the other Bill, because the two organisations are so closely interlinked. For me, this is a minimum backstop amendment. I have added my name to Amendment 116, in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, and I continue to support it, but I wish to make clear that if that amendment falls, this one is a kind of backstop.

My amendments are relatively straightforward, so I will turn to the other amendment in this group, Amendment 117, in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist. This would hold Great British Energy accountable to the relevant parliamentary committees of both Houses of Parliament.

The Minister has said—I already suspected that this would be the case with an arm’s-length body—that this would be subject to parliamentary scrutiny. It is good that he has confirmed that from the Dispatch Box. I just wanted to indicate my full support for the amendment and the principles that it sets out. It is obviously important that all bodies that the Government set up should be subject to parliamentary scrutiny from the Select Committees.

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

My Lords, I shall speak to the amendments in this group, which contains amendments in my name and those of the noble Earl, Lord Russell, one of which he moved. I thank the noble Earl for introducing this group; I appreciate the sentiment and spirit of his amendments, and his support for mine.

I do not wish to repeat noble Lords’ arguments from previous groups, but these amendments again seek to shape the governance, accountability and sustainability of the proposed Great British Energy entity. They have been drafted in line with the values of responsible governance, fiscal prudence and national interest, so, although I will not repeat his arguments, or those of my noble friend Lady Noakes from earlier, I wholeheartedly agree with the comments made by my noble friend Lord Roborough on the first group.

On Amendment 95, which would require GBE to publish an annual budget report, I appreciate the sentiment of ensuring transparency in how public funds are utilised. On these Benches, we have always championed the prudent use of taxpayers’ money, and this amendment acknowledges that principle. However, we must ensure that such reporting is not merely a box-ticking exercise. The report must provide meaningful insights, ensuring that GBE operates efficiently and delivers value for money. We cannot allow an additional layer of bureaucracy to stifle innovation or create unnecessary costs. Therefore, I agree with the noble Earl, Lord Russell, on the spirit of this amendment, and I look forward to hearing from other noble Lords about how the reporting requirement could best be used to ensure that GBE operates in the best interests of the nation.

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[Lord in Waiting/Government Whip (Lord Cryer) (Lab)]

My Lords, I will begin with Amendments 95 and 96 in the name of the noble Earl, Lord Russell.

Amendment 95 proposes requiring GBE to publish an annual budget report and send it to Parliament through the Commons Energy Security and Net Zero Select Committee—or its successor, as he said, since its name seems to keep changing every five minutes. Amendment 96 proposes requiring GBE to publish an annual report on various topics which must also be sent to the Select Committee. GBE will already have a requirement to produce publicly available annual reports and accounts at Companies House, and the Secretary of State will lay copies before Parliament.

The noble Earl, Lord Russell, also mentioned the requirement that the Secretary of State appear before the Select Committee to speak to those reports. That requirement is already fulfilled. I know that Select Committees cannot subpoena witnesses, so there is no compulsion, but the Secretary of State and other Ministers regularly appear before relevant Select Committees. I emphasise other Ministers with specific interests. Once GBE is up and running, and producing these accounts, that is the time when the Secretary of State will appear before the relevant Select Committees. In theory, the Secretary of State does not have to appear—as I said, there is no compulsion—but it would be pretty odd if they did not do so under those circumstances.

There are also additional requirements on government-owned companies to ensure transparency and accountability. These include the obligation to follow the Treasury’s directions on accounts through the powers extended in the Government Resources and Accounts Act 2000, and laid out in the Government Financial Reporting Manual and related “Dear Accounting Officer” letters. Furthermore, GBE will be required to report on its governance around, exposure to, and risk of, climate-related scenarios in its operations as set out by the Task Force on Climate-Related Financial Disclosures a couple of years ago.

I acknowledge the noble Lord’s expectation that Parliament will hold a strong interest in the performance of GBE, which anybody who knows anything about how Parliament works would expect. I fully anticipate that the relevant Select Committees will call representatives from the company and from the department to provide evidence when required.

The point about hydrogen made by the noble Lord, Lord Hamilton, is a little wide of the scope of the amendment. However, I remind noble Lords that the exact mix of technologies in which GBE, as an operationally independent company, chooses to invest will be determined by its board in due course. His prediction—he is inviting me to look into the future, and I suppose he is doing the same—is that, as technology advances, hydrogen starts to fall in cost. That is fairly sensible, although I do not ask the noble Lord to hold me to it, because we are looking into the future and we do not know what technologies there will be then.

Amendment 97 proposes that GBE reviews the impact of its activities on sustainable development in the UK. This Government—this has been made very clear and repeatedly so—firmly believe in a healthy natural environment and that is critical to a strong economy and to sustainable growth and development. Our commitment to the environment is unwavering and will be in the future, including through meeting the Environment Act 2021 targets and halting biodiversity decline by 2030. That is a pretty demanding target, but that is what we have set out for five years’ time. I assure the noble Earl that the projects in which GBE is involved will be subject to the usual and rigorous planning and environmental regulations, where the impacts on the environment and habitats are considered. The Bill focuses on establishing the company, and adding more detail at this point may restrict its activities or add layers to its reporting and governance.

Amendment 117, proposed by the noble Baroness, Lady Bloomfield, seeks to legislate the scrutiny of GBE by relevant Select Committees. My noble friend and I have touched on that to some extent. This amendment goes beyond the precedent and practice of the involvement of Select Committees in public appointments. The chief executive of Great British Energy, once appointed, will also be its chief accounting officer and will be accountable to Parliament for their stewardship of GBE and its funds. As is common practice for public bodies, the management and leadership of GBE will be available to the relevant Select Committees as needed. There is no real need to legislate on this arrangement at this point.

I remind noble Lords that the chief accounting officer would, in all likelihood, be called before the Public Accounts Committee. Over the past few years, the PAC was chaired by Margaret Hodge, as was, who is now the noble Baroness, Lady Hodge; she was followed by the honourable Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch. Those who have seen those sessions know what an acute and thorough grilling that committee gives to anybody who appears in front of it. That Select Committee is always chaired by a Member of the Opposition; that is set up in the Standing Orders of the House of Commons. It is now chaired by the honourable Member for Cirencester and Tewkesbury. Having served with him in the other place for more than 20 years, I assure noble Lords that he will be just as incisive as his predecessors.

The Cabinet Office guidance on pre-appointment scrutiny by House of Commons Select Committees provides criteria and processes for such roles. It sets out that decisions on the scrutiny of individual posts should be made between the Secretary of State, the chair of the relevant Select Committee and the Cabinet Office. It is not common practice for this to be set in primary legislation. As per this guidance, no public body currently appears to have its full board subject to that kind of pre-appointment scrutiny. We anticipate recruitment for the substantive board to begin over the course of this year and will ensure that it is undertaken in a manner that aligns with best practice. To reassure the noble Baroness—

[Earl Russell (LD)]

I am sorry to intervene, but I think the noble Lord has moved on to the next group of amendments in his response to me, unless I am mistaken, because the next one is on government appointments, is it not?

[Lord Cryer (Lab)]

No, at present I am talking about Amendment 117.

[Earl Russell (LD)]

Oh, I am sorry.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

But we are coming to that.

[Earl Russell (LD)]

I thought the noble Lord had moved on; I apologise for interrupting.

[Lord Cryer (Lab)]

I am glad I was able to reassure the noble Earl. I hope that I have provided the assurances and explanations sought by noble Lords in tabling these amendments, and I sincerely hope that they will not press them.

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[Lord Cryer (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Lord for that question. I cannot add anything to what I said before. GBE will look at a range of technology and sources. The whole of energy policy is predicated on security of supply and range of supply, because at various times in British history, although those two things have not been absent at the same time—or perhaps they have, briefly—there have been times when one or the other has been absent. If it is possible for hydrogen to play a part in that security of supply and range of supply—it certainly would on the latter—I do not see why that should not be part of the nation’s energy supply in the future.

[Earl Russell (LD)]

I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in the discussion on this group of amendments, and I thank the Minister for responding to me; I apologise for interrupting him. I appreciate everything he said, and I appreciate that there will be reports on GB Energy and that there are lots of opportunities for parliamentary scrutiny. It is appropriate that we ask these questions. The amendments in this group and others look to go a bit further to ensure that certain things will be reported on.

In response to the discussion on the previous group, the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath, asked me whether we were looking for a separate report. In my mind, this is about making sure that GB Energy produces a really good-quality annual report that covers a broad range of areas and is open and transparent about its activities.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

Perhaps I may intervene. In the discussion on the first group of amendments, I promised to write a letter to noble Lords focused on financial information. It might reassure noble Lords if I pick up that challenge and say that we should perhaps also try to encompass the annual report arrangements. If that would be a sensible way forward, the letter will set this out very clearly in writing so that noble Lords can see it after Committee but before Report.

[Earl Russell (LD)]

That would be greatly appreciated and would really reassure us. That was the point that these amendments were trying to get to, so I thank the Minister.

Amendment 95 withdrawn.

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[Earl Russell (LD)]

I shall speak to my Amendment 101, and I thank the noble Viscount, Lord Trenchard, for adding his name in support of it. It would simply prevent the board of GB Energy from being appointed until each prospective appointment had been scrutinised by the Energy Security and Net Zero Committee. I believe in pre-appointment scrutiny, and I put this forward as a way of helping to ensure that that happens.

I shall not speak for long on this amendment, because I suspect that it will not win favour with the Government and that the Minister will argue that there are well-established processes and procedures for making such appointments. It might be useful if he could say a brief word about what those processes will be.

Amendment 99 is very similar to mine on pre-appointment scrutiny, so I lend my support to it. However, I would probably leave out the politics; I am much more interested in the skills and abilities people have to perform the functions that they undertake. Their personal politics should not really come into it.

Amendment 98, in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Frost, and the noble Viscount, Lord Trenchard, has three elements. The first reflects my amendment in this group. The second calls for the headquarters to be placed full time in Aberdeen. The third calls for the chair of GB Energy to undergo an annual review by external auditors, and for that review to be sent to the Secretary of State.

I cannot disagree with the first part, because we are kind of on the same ground, so I welcome it. Labour made commitments on the second part, but I am not certain that the Bill is the place to go into what a full-time headquarters is and how it should be defined, so I will park that. On an annual review by external auditors, my question is again about level playing fields. Would other people in other similar organisations find that that was part of their normal working relationship with their employment contracts? I suspect that they would not. If the answer is no, there is no precedent for putting it in the Bill, so I would not think it acceptable.

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[Lord Teverson (LD)]

I shall not prolong the conversation tonight but the noble Lord is, once again, absolutely right about national defence, radar and being able to see an incoming attack with missiles or whatever. The problem was that the Ministry of Defence did not man that area enough. Decisions were extremely slow. There was a rumour—of course, I have no proof of this —that it used to use its slowness and its objections to insist that developers helped it upgrade its military equipment. I do not know whether it was true—I am sure that it was not, of course—but that was the perception. The main problem was the slowness of response.

[Earl Russell (LD)]

My Lords, I rise to speak to my Amendment 118A, which covers wider considerations. Let me be clear: it is also a probing amendment, as are all the amendments in this interesting and diverse group. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Macpherson of Earl’s Court, for adding his support to my amendment, which is about ensuring that communities benefit directly from the renewable energy projects that Great British Energy undertakes. I put it forward to see whether that is possible and to ask, from the Government’s point of view, what barriers to that might exist.

My amendment would ensure that 5% of gross revenue from all Great British Energy

“renewable energy projects generating over one megawatt”,

both onshore and offshore, would

“be paid into community benefit funds”.

The idea for it came from the honourable Angus MacDonald MP’s experience with Scottish Government Good Practice Principles for Community Benefits from Onshore Renewable Energy Developments. This guidance promotes community benefits of a value equivalent to £5,000 per installed megawatt per annum, index-linked for the operational lifetime of projects.

My amendment requires that:

“Within six months of the day on which this Act is passed, the Secretary of State must prepare and lay before Parliament a report setting out proposals for ensuring that local communities benefit from renewable energy projects undertaken by Great British Energy. The report … must set out, but is not limited to, proposals for 5% of the gross revenue from all such renewable energy projects generating over one megawatt to be paid into community benefit funds”.


I will not go into the rest of the details; the amendment is before noble Lords. It simply puts into the Bill that local communities should directly benefit from renewable energy undertaken, and that there is a mechanism available for doing that. On the 5% figure, I am happy to have a conversation with the Minister if it is an issue. I note that Denmark’s Law on the Promotion of Renewable Energy 2008 had a 20% figure, in relation to which 5% is a lot lower.

To talk more about the spirit of the amendment, this is really about helping disadvantaged communities, particularly those that are hosting our renewable energy. A lot of them are in the highlands and in Scotland. They disproportionately suffer from poor infrastructure and poor public services, and a lot of them are living in fuel poverty. They are putting up with having their landscapes covered in turbines, dams, electricity transmission lines, substations and all the rest of it. I support community energy, as everybody knows—I have spoken to it in two other amendments and will not go into it here—but this is about more than that. This is not a nice-to-have; in my opinion, this is an essential part of the energy transition. It is about ensuring the continued long-term support for this journey that we are undertaking as a society.

Recent opinion polls on these matters are really strong. Where local communities benefit from the energy infrastructure, particularly the infrastructure that they host, their support for this transition is much stronger and more resilient. If this support falls away, that could be the end of the whole transition and of all this, so this is not just about being fair and supporting the communities that need it most and that host this stuff. It is also about making sure that these things go on beyond one Government and one term, that they are here, that we manage to take society with us on this journey, and that those who are hosting things that other bits of society need benefit from them.

Turning to the other amendments in this group, I signal my support for Amendment 118 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Bloomfield. I note that the Wildlife and Countryside Link put out a detailed briefing on that and why it needs to be there. I also support Amendments 114 and 115 in the name of my noble friend Lord Teverson. I will not go into too much detail on that. As he said, there is an Oral Question on this tomorrow. It is unfortunate that we have had more recent incidents, not just in the Baltic but off the coast of Taiwan. Obviously, the UK has a number of electricity interconnectors and gas pipelines —we had a conversation about gas in the House this week—and they will only ever increase. New contracts have been signed. We have about 7.7 gigawatts at the moment, and that will rise to 18 gigawatts by 2032, so this is a crucial part of our energy security and our journey to net zero.

I would ask the Minister one thing. We can have conversations about the other aspects later on, but I am worried about the Government going away, stepping up their appreciation of this risk and maybe recalculating some of their calculations around the security of supply as we transition to net zero in 2030 and beyond. Is there is a greater need to look at some of those things again? We will talk about the rest tomorrow.

If the Committee will excuse me, the noble Lord, Lord Macpherson of Earl’s Court, has left me a note. Does the Committee mind if I read that in support of my amendment?

These are his words: “My Lords, I would like to speak in support of Amendment 118A. I should first declare an interest as a director of two family-owned hydroelectric companies in Wester Ross. Having worked in the Treasury during the 1980s boom in North Sea revenues, I am all too conscious that Britain has a poor record in reinvesting the benefits of energy windfalls and an even worse record in passing on those benefits to communities directly affected by energy production. I think Shetland receives some money, but other places do not”.

“It is in the nature of renewable energy production that it tends to take place in remote areas. I am thinking in particular of the Highlands of Scotland, but the same applies to Cornwall, Devon, Wales and Cumbria. People living in these communities often have to live with negative aspects of renewable energy: towering windmills or hydroelectric schemes which change the natural environment and can particularly scar a hillside. Because of the remoteness, oil and gas and electricity connections cost more”.

“Successive Governments in Westminster and Edinburgh have supported the principle of requiring energy developers to support their local communities, and there have been some good examples of community investment. But practice is variable, and often contributions are set in cash terms and bear no relation to the subsequent success of renewable energy schemes. Great British Energy has a huge opportunity to lead by example in exercising best practice. By setting up community benefit as a fixed percentage of gross revenue, this amendment seeks to ensure communities benefit more fairly. A 5% contribution is relatively modest, as I understand it”—and he then goes on to make the Denmark point.

“Of course I hope that the noble Lord the Minister will agree to the amendment, but I have a feeling that he will argue that this amendment will cut across the operational independence of Great British Energy and that this Bill is the wrong vehicle for addressing community benefits. If that is the case, I would like to ask the Minister if he can go beyond fine words of general support for community benefits. Will he commit to setting out a clearer definition of what represents a reasonable and fair rate of community benefit for a given level of revenue for renewable energy projects?”.

[Lord Cryer (Lab)]

Before the Minister responds, I should have pointed this out before, but I was not aware: reading out speeches from another Member is not acceptable, according to the Companion. That is partly my fault. I apologise: I should have said something.

[Earl Russell (LD)]

I apologise; I thought that it was acceptable. The noble Lord should have intervened earlier if it was not. I would not have done it if I had known that it was not acceptable, so I apologise to the Committee.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

We certainly got the noble Lord’s point.

This has been an interesting debate with which to finish today’s proceedings. I start with Amendments 106, 107 and 115. The debate between the noble Lords, Lord Teverson and Lord Hamilton, on the benefits of oil rigs and other structures for fish populations allows me to say that other energy infrastructure can also have a positive impact on nature. We know, for instance, that wind farms can coexist with farmland easily. We have examples of solar meadows, which is a practice of growing wildflower meadows on solar farms. I have heard talk of green corridors, where beautiful new pylons are built to extend the grid. I am not being facetious here, as we need to look at ways in which energy can contribute to nature recovery. It is an important point to make.

I agree on the importance of our coastal communities and commercial fishing, as reflected in Amendments 106 and 107. Amendment 115 would require GBE to consult annually with the commercial shipping sector and fishing industry. I would expect GBE to provide regular updates on its work on such issues through its annual reports and accounts. We know that the projects that Great British Energy is likely to be involved in will all be subject to relevant regulations, including environmental impact assessments. There will be statutory stakeholder engagement to understand the potential impact of development. In line with other energy developers, GBE will consider the impact and risk of its activity on the commercial shipping sector and fishing industry, as it will other affected stakeholders. I will draw these remarks to the attention of the chair of GBE, so he can understand the importance of the issue that the noble Lord, Lord Offord, has raised.

In relation to coastal communities, there will be many opportunities in the energy sector in the future. We talked about the challenge of the North Sea transition. We obviously hope that, as jobs reduce in the oil and gas sector, the people involved can take up other jobs, some of which I hope will be in the wider energy sector. But overall, GBE has an important contribution to make in this area.

On Amendment 114, the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, raised an important point on the Ministry of Defence and security agencies. Clearly, to ensure resilience, GBE will have to consider the impact and risk of its activity on offshore installation, including its pipeline and cable connections, within the context of relevant security regulations and hostile state action. It is a very important and serious matter. All nationally significant infrastructure projects, which include projects in the energy sector over 50 megawatts, undergo rigorous scrutiny to monitor and mitigate security risks. In the end, these decisions fall to Ministers to make in relation to development consent orders.

There was an interesting debate on air defence issues between the noble Lords, Lord Teverson and Lord Hamilton. I have to say that my department is working very closely with the Ministry of Defence on these issues. We are talking closely and working to ensure that our own offshore wind ambitions can coexist alongside air defence. MoD programme NJORD will deliver an enduring radar mitigation solution, which will prevent turbines from interfering with MoD radar systems. In the context of our more general working relationship with the Ministry of Defence, it will be a responsibility of GBE to consider and consult relevant stakeholders. My department will of course ensure that that happens appropriately.

Amendment 118, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Bloomfield, would place a nature recovery duty on Great British Energy. Let me say at once that we are absolutely committed to restoring and protecting nature and meeting our Environment Act targets. We want GBE to focus on its core mission to drive clean energy deployment, but I assure the noble Baroness that the projects that GBE invests in and encourages will be subject to all environmental and climate regulations, in the same way that every other company is.

I draw her attention to our recently published Clean Power 2030 Action Plan, which dedicates an entire section to

“Integrating clean power and the natural environment”.


I was going to quote from it, but I do not think I need to do now. We are launching an engagement exercise in 2025 to invite communities, civil society and wider stakeholders to submit their ideas on how we can best encourage nature-positive best practice into energy infrastructure and development. Feedback from this exercise will allow the Government to better understand how we can integrate nature restoration through the clean power 2030 mission. We very much agree with the substance of what the noble Baroness said.