Poverty and Social Exclusion

Earl of Listowel Excerpts

Thursday 17th July 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Freud]

Maybe I am not the best person to comment on Liberal Democrat manifesto planning. I can, however, assure the House that the removal of the spare room subsidy remains government policy—and I remind the House that this was coalition policy, which was decided in 2010 at the highest levels of government.

[The Earl of Listowel (CB)]

My Lords, I warmly welcome the excellent steps that this and the previous Government have taken in improving support for young people leaving local authority care, but may I draw the Minister’s attention to today’s report from the Education Select Committee in the other place, which highlights the fact that too many young people from care are going into bed-and-breakfast accommodation? There is still a lot of work to do, so will he look at that carefully? I also ask him to look at the next iteration of the care leavers strategy, which his department has been involved in, and to ensure that health, particularly mental health, is fully included, so that young people of 16 to 25 leaving local authority care, and the people who support them, have the excellent mental health support they need to avoid those young people entering social exclusion and poverty?

[Lord Freud]

The noble Earl is absolutely right to concentrate on this issue because this group has traditionally done disproportionately badly. We have taken steps to ensure that these young people are better off in terms of housing than youngsters who are not coming out of care. As regards the mental health issues, it is absolutely correct to concentrate on the fact that a large proportion of people develop long-term disabilities due to mental health issues. We are devoting a lot of energy to consideration of that area.

Employment: Universal Jobmatch

Earl of Listowel Excerpts

Tuesday 11th March 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Freud]

I do not have to hand how many prosecutions we have made, but I will of course write when I know that information.

[The Earl of Listowel (CB)]

My Lords, as more people are being encouraged into work, is the Minister aware that unidentified mental health needs are becoming more apparent? How can these people be helped to address their mental health needs so they can benefit from the services of the kind he is discussing?

[Lord Freud]

The greater intensification of the relationship between the jobcentre and claimants as a result of universal credit and the claimant commitment has begun to unpick some of the challenges and barriers that claimants face. One of those, clearly, is mental health and we are undertaking an exercise to look at how we can help such claimants. That is not easy. No one in the world has managed to achieve this. We are currently looking at doing a series of pilots to find out how best to help people with mental health problems.

Pensions Bill

Earl of Listowel Excerpts

Monday 24th February 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Rix (CB)]

My Lords, I cannot claim to be either a young widow or to have young children. My children are actually middle-aged but my wife died a year ago last week and I know perfectly well that a year is really not sufficient time to put to one side all the problems which arise from the death of a partner. I was married for 64 years and, both for my children—middle-aged as they may be—and for me, the grief continues. I know perfectly well that if you are a young widow with young children, to be asked to change your life or to look at the possibility of going into work after six months is absolutely absurd. I support both these amendments with all my heart.

[The Earl of Listowel (CB)]

My Lords, I am sure that the House will want to reach a conclusion on this debate as soon as possible, but as treasurer of the All-Party Parliamentary Group for Children I would like to express my strong support for Amendment 21, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis. I also pay tribute to the Minister for the care with which he has clearly been considering this very sensitive matter. That does not surprise me given that his great-aunt, Anna Freud, set up the Hampstead War Nurseries towards the end of the Second World War. She dealt with children who had been separated from their parents and provided them with much needed care. She also made forensic observations of what happens when a child is separated from the parent, looking at the different sequelae of those changes. What she discovered was that while she could feed the children well and provide exercise so that they were healthier, the emotional damage done to them as a result of being separated from their parents was simply huge. The concern must be that if widowed parents are not well supported and given all necessary consideration they may emotionally withdraw from their children, with all the adverse consequences highlighted by the noble Lord, Lord German, in Grand Committee.

[The Lord Bishop of Wakefield]

My Lords, having been one of the signatories, along with 26 other Anglican bishops, to the letter that went to the Daily Mirror last week, I am loath to speak too much about amendments to government legislation. However, on this particular occasion, because bereavement support is such a notable part of our business and ministry, I am very bothered about the direction in which the legislation is going.

I should like to reinforce what was said earlier by the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis, about cost. It seems to me that it is not a question of cost but of how long support is given to people. What many clergy learn and what people often forget is that, as the noble Baroness said, it is not just the first three months which are difficult—the problems continue throughout the whole of the first year. More than that, it is a matter of showing support for people over the whole period of time that the emotional pain of bereavement continues to be very severe. The issue of supporting people financially has an impact on that emotional pain.

Speaking on behalf of a group of people who spend so much of their time trying to support those who have been bereaved and who need to understand how they can be helped, we might take good note of these amendments. They will not cost more money. They have been tabled simply to try to offer more support over a longer period of time—not only in the raw first year, but over the first three or four years, and particularly where young children are involved and the emotional impact is even greater.

Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill

Earl of Listowel Excerpts

Wednesday 10th July 2013 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[The Earl of Listowel]

95A: After Clause 14, insert the following new Clause—
“Education: duty of the Secretary of State to provide information
The Secretary of State must provide evidence-based information to teachers on the implications of the measures in this Act for the raising of children and the promotion of family life.”

[The Earl of Listowel]

My Lords, my purpose in moving this amendment is to obtain a statement from the Government of their assessment of the impact of same-sex parenting on child development. I would appreciate a careful and thorough assessment from the Government, perhaps with the aid of an appropriate mental health professional and a statistician, to look across the research that we have currently on this issue and produce a report. In the first place, a letter to me and placed in the Library would be very welcome. Perhaps that might be the basis of further work that could also help with the support for schools that the Minister was just talking about in helping them manage this new piece of legislation.

I will try to be brief, given the hour. I thank the Minister for meeting with me at Committee stage to discuss my concerns. That was very generous of her. I also thank the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, whom I see in her place, for her kind words on my work in the course of Monday’s business.

A twofold challenge makes me ask these questions. First—I know that this is debatable—the Bill might give a significant, inadvertent nudge to same-sex couples and to teachers, doctors and child and family social workers. Many of us agree that marriage has traditionally been seen as the last and very important step before one starts a family. For many professionals, the Bill might seem to encourage them to think that same-sex parenting is just as good as or even better than heterosexual parenting and nudge them towards, for example, giving IVF, making placements with same-sex foster carers or adoptive parents, or teaching children that same-sex parenting is no longer problematic or debatable. For context in this, your Lordships might recall debates on the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act a few years back, where the duty was removed for clinicians to ensure that those taking part kept in mind the interests of the child of having contact with the father. I fear a gradual erosion of that traditional norm that the best situation for every child is to have a mother and a father.

The second difficulty concerns research. The phenomenon of same-sex parenting is relatively new, and research stretches back only about 30 years. Typical problems are that the samples are of small numbers and too narrow, and that the duration of study was too short. Another problem is that the science is undertaken under pressure of polemic from both sides. There are people here who desperately want this to be proven to be absolutely unproblematic, and others who desperately want this to be shown to be the wrong thing to do entirely. The truth lies somewhere in between and is sometimes hard to find.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, for moving this amendment and for taking the time and trouble to come to have a discussion with me, which I enjoyed very much. I echo what my noble friend Lady Barker said about his commitment to the interests of children and his dedication to that—and how he makes contributions to all our work in the House with that specific goal in mind.

In answering the debate, I wanted to make some specific points to assist all noble Lords and the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, in particular. I wanted to emphasise that the Bill does not change the position for children in families of same-sex couples. The Government believe that the principles of long-term commitment and responsibility, which underpin marriage, are a good basis for providing children with the support and protection that they need throughout their childhood. As the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, has said—and we very much agree with him—extending marriage to same-sex couples will mean that children of those couples will be able to benefit from the stability of a family founded on marriage in the way in which other children benefit. We think that that is a good thing.

The noble Earl, Lord Listowel, and other noble Lords referred to comments that the noble Lord, Lord Winston, made in the debate on Monday on concerns about the ability of same-sex parents to bring up children. Those concerns are effectively not supported by the available evidence; the noble Lord made the point that there was no evidence to support the concern that some might have. Research has shown that there is no negative impact on children’s self-esteem, psychological well-being or social adjustment if they are brought up by same-sex parents. This includes lesbian couples—the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, raised the point about there being no father figure in the family.

It is an obvious point, but important none the less, that when gay couples decide to have a child or children the decision has to be a conscious one. Therefore, it is safe to assume that, having made that decision, they will be very conscious of the needs of that child and would address of all of them. No doubt two lesbian women would ensure there were male role models to play a part in the children’s lives. The noble Earl and I discussed this when we met privately. As I said in the previous debate, I am aware that some people respond to change in different ways. However, it is important to be clear that same-sex couples will approach their decision to become parents as seriously as any other couple; perhaps more so because they have had to make that decision very consciously. The Golombok report, Growing up in a Lesbian Family, which has been referred to, supports this view. There are other reports—all of which seem to have very interesting names—and I am sure if I start trying to say them I will mispronounce them so I will not. However, there are other studies coming out of the US.

The noble Earl referred to a report by Loren Marks in the USA and quoted quite extensively from it. The American Psychological Association took great interest in that paper. It issued a statement saying that, on the basis of a remarkably consistent body of research on lesbian and gay parents and their children, it and other health professional and scientific organisations had concluded that there is no scientific evidence that parenting effectiveness is related to sexual orientation. Lesbian and gay parents are as likely as heterosexual parents to provide supportive and healthy environments for their children.

I understand the noble Earl’s request for me to provide some analysis of the available research. I hope he will forgive me but I will be happy to write to him because I do not think that this debate justifies the use of resources to carry out the kind of analysis he has called for. I will ensure that letter is in the Library and I will copy it to my noble friend Lord Elton. I will obviously be interested to receive the letter my noble friend said he will send to me about another issue related to this debate. I hope the noble Earl feels able to withdraw his amendment.

[The Earl of Listowel]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister and to those who have spoken in this debate. I am mindful of the hour so I will be very brief. I still suggest it is very early days in this phenomenon—the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, referred to the difficulties at present with the small number of families in this position. I am very grateful for the care with which the Minister made her response and I look forward to receiving her letter. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 95A withdrawn.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Earl of Listowel]

My Lords, I rise briefly to thank my noble friend for alluding to the research that he did and for his support on my previous amendment. I will look with great interest at the research to which he refers. He also gives me the opportunity to reflect on the Minister’s reply with regard to research in this area. I perhaps should have pointed out that the Loren Marks research was initially a criticism of a conclusion produced by the American Psychological Association two or three years previously. She wrote that particular paper from a critical point of view on its conclusion that all the research so far pointed to there being no problems with same-sex parenting. That was why she wrote that paper. It is hardly surprising, therefore, that the American Psychological Association should come back and be very critical of her research, so I would not take the association’s damning criticism too much to heart. I think that Loren Marks is well worth reading and listening to.

I offer my sincerest congratulations to my noble friend on bringing forward this amendment at this late point in the Bill. From a man of faith representing one of the great religions, it is absolutely right that we should be hearing a very conservative point of view regarding the family. It is very important that there are these strong, conservative voices, deeply steeped in religion, to stand up against us modern people, who are much less rooted in tradition and more flexible. It is very important that people such as him stand up on these occasions and put a strongly conservative point of view, even at this late stage in the Bill. I wish that he had been here when we were discussing the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act and that we had heard his comments then on the removal of the assumption that it is in the best interests of children for fathers to be involved in their lives. Again, I recall the Good Childhood Inquiry report, produced by the Children’s Society and the Church of England a few years ago. It highlighted that, with increased rights and freedom of choice for adults in the 20th century, which so many of us welcome, the downside for children has often been that parents’ greater choice has meant that many more children grow up with their father no longer in their family. I think it is very helpful to have my noble friend’s voice here.

Finally, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, for her very kind comments. I had forgotten that she made her maiden speech in my first debate, and I appreciated what she said.

[Lord Norton of Louth]

My Lords, perhaps I may deal briefly with this in bullet form. The point that has just been made about parenting is totally irrelevant to what this Bill seeks to achieve, and it is certainly irrelevant in terms of the amendment before us, to which the noble Lord, Lord Singh, did not really speak. When he does, I think we would be interested to hear why, under subsection (9), on those who would vote in the referendum, he would exclude Members of your Lordships’ House.

We keep hearing about public opinion as if somehow it is divided—no, it is not. Every poll that has put the question in a neutral way has produced a very clear result. What is remarkable about opinion is not that it is divided but how consistent it has been. As Lewis Baston has written in the latest issue of Total Politics:

“A typical result for a neutrally worded question is support somewhere in the low- to mid-50 per cent range and opposition in the mid-30 per cent range”,

before concluding:

“While there may be some legislative twists and turns in the House of Lords, the battle for public opinion has been won by supporters of SSM”.

With that consistency, there is really no need to consult. The position is quite clear.

In terms of holding a referendum anyway, as the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, pointed out, at the end of the previous Parliament the Constitution Committee produced a very thorough report on referendums, weighing the arguments for and against, and concluded that if they were going to be held, they should be not only on constitutional issues but fundamental constitutional issues. Not only is this not really a constitutional issue; it certainly does not qualify as a fundamental constitutional matter.

It is essentially a matter of social policy. Parliament has legislated on significant social policy before. This would be on a par with abortion and divorce, which, as I recall, were not manifesto commitments and not issues on which anybody was really suggesting that there should be referendums. So if we are going to start saying that we should have referendums on social issues, there are wider implications. We would need to consider it very thoroughly before we went down that route. There is absolutely no merit in the amendment before us and I hope that we do not pursue it.

Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill

Earl of Listowel Excerpts

Monday 8th July 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon]

My Lords, we have debated this issue several times throughout the passage of the Bill. I believe it is absolutely clear that while teachers will be under a legal duty, as is right and proper, to teach the law of the land—that gay couples will be able to marry—that does not mean that teachers are going to be able to advocate this as the best form of marriage, and nor are they going to be asked to promote same-sex marriage. These are very different things. It is right and proper that teachers in our country should be expected to teach the law of the land—not to promote or advocate but just to teach.

The noble Lord mentioned conscience. I think that he was talking about opt-outs. It would be totally inappropriate for a teacher to opt out of teaching the law of the land. The noble Lord also mentioned a classroom of 13 year-olds and asked whether the line could be drawn between endorsement and explanation. I have utmost confidence in the ability of teachers to do this. They already do so in many circumstances and I see absolutely no reason why they cannot do this with same-sex marriage. I am utterly opposed to the amendment.

[The Earl of Listowel]

My Lords, my noble friend raises a very interesting question about how teachers will work with this legislation. At Second Reading, the noble Baroness, Lady Stowell, made it very clear that this is a Bill about same-sex marriage. The Government have no intention of dealing with any other issue; this is just about same-sex marriage. However, from our debates this afternoon, I think it is also clear that we agree that for many years marriage has been understood to be the stepping stone to starting a family. For many people, it is the basis for going on to have children. Therefore, it does not seem too far-fetched to think that if a Government bring forward a Bill to introduce same-sex marriage, they may by implication be saying, “We have looked at all the research about the outcomes for same-sex marriage and the outcomes for children growing up with two women or two men as parents, and we are sanguine about the results. We are quite confident now that there are no concerns at all about that fashion of bringing up children”. Clearly, from what the noble Baroness said at Second Reading, that is not the Government’s intention, but I can see that this may be a difficulty—that there may be a popular misunderstanding of the Government’s intention in this Bill. Therefore, we need to make the guidance very clear for teachers. My noble friend cited two concerning cases about teachers coming under pressure because they had a different view from that of their head teachers about what should be taught in this area. A lot of work needs to be done in ensuring that the best guidance possible is offered to teachers.

I reiterate that there are strong feelings on both sides of this issue. Some people feel very strongly that with same-sex parenting there is no difference in terms of outcomes for children, and there are others who are very strongly against it. The science so far does not prove the case either way, but both sides want to twist or bend it to a certain degree to make that conclusion. Therefore, this matter requires a lot of attention. There is a need to think really carefully about the evidence involved and to use it in advising teachers and other childcare professionals about the best framework for the best outcomes for children.

[Baroness Barker]

My Lords, it is deeply regrettable that the noble Lord, Lord Dear, chose to speak about the promotion of same-sex relationships. That brings an echo of some very bad policy from times past for some of us.

I have great admiration for teachers. One of the great things they do is to manage classrooms of 13 year-olds, who are extremely challenging. Teachers already face issues of this kind in their daily life. They already have guidance to which they refer in order to help them to do their jobs. I simply want to ask the Minister whether there is anything in this legislation that changes the existing position regarding the teaching of the subject of personal and sexual health education to children—a topic on which there have been endless debates, not least in your Lordships’ House, in great detail.

Queen’s Speech

Earl of Listowel Excerpts

Tuesday 14th May 2013 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Listowel]

My Lords, there is much to welcome in the Queen’s Speech. I particularly look forward to the advent of the Children and Families Bill. I welcome the attention that the Government have been paying to adoption and I hope that we may be able to encourage them to offer still more support to adoptive families and provide further support for young people leaving care as the Bill makes its journey through your Lordships’ House towards the statute book. I share with the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, her concern that there is no legislation or regulation for the minimum pricing of alcohol or for blank packaging on cigarettes. I am concerned in particular that many of the children who are taken into care come from backgrounds where alcohol misuse was a contributing factor to family dysfunction. It would be helpful if alcohol was less available to young people so that they would be less likely to start the bad habits which persist when they start their families.

I do not wish to tire the patience of your Lordships so I will concentrate on one issue that is of deep concern to some in this House, and which was mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath, in his remarks. My time will be spent considering the Government’s proposal to introduce the opportunity for early years providers and childminders to increase the ratio of children to carers where the carers can demonstrate improved qualifications. I begin by applauding the Government’s attention to this important policy area. I am particularly pleased that they have chosen to maintain important requirements with regard to the supervision of early years staff and that they have welcomed the report of the Nutbrown review, with its call for higher qualifications for early years staff. The Government have stated that their first priority is better quality childcare; the Education Minister, the noble Lord, Lord Nash, repeated that last week in this House. The Government have also been seeking to make this better quality childcare more affordable for parents.

I hope that I may also pay tribute to the last Government’s attention to childcare. They introduced the first Childcare Act, placing a duty on local authorities to provide a sufficiency of childcare. They invested significantly in developing the workforce, introducing career development pathways and early years professional status. International assessment of the UK’s progress has been very favourable, and there is an encouraging sense of political consensus and commitment to getting this policy right. One of our main aims is to improve outcomes for children. High quality early years care has been clearly demonstrated by the EPPE research project to improve children’s outcomes. Indeed, I have heard the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, speak about this many times. I was very struck by a presentation I attended three years ago by Professor Melhuish of the University of London. The research he produced found that children with a good early years experience would tend to continue to do well in their education at the age of 11 whether they attended a good or an indifferent primary school. Good early experience is a protective factor against poor later educational experience.

The right honourable Iain Duncan Smith MP and the honourable Graham Allen MP have both highlighted that it is the early years when we can break the cycle of disadvantage and put children on a better path because, at that point, their brains are highly malleable. They and the noble Earl, Lord Howe, have referred in the past to the importance of new findings in neurobiology where brain scans can show us how the infant brain is sculpted by the loving relationships around him. At the same time, we have been warned about the impact of prolonged exposure to poor quality early years care by Professor Jay Belsky. He presents the other side of the coin: the harm caused by poor quality care, harm which increases the younger a child is exposed to it and the greater time over which the child is exposed.

I should now like to raise my concerns about the Government’s proposals, and I preface them with some comments on current practice in baby rooms. It is essential that babies feel that their carers are attuned to them, that they feel their carers are keeping them in mind, and that they know their wants will be met. Regulations recognise this and each baby is required to have one or two carers as their key person in the nursery. However, there are challenges to doing this even as things stand. Carers may be working shifts, as may the parents themselves. There may be a high staff turnover. The job is also extremely demanding and the workforce is mostly made up of very young and inexperienced women. In this context, I am very troubled by the Government’s proposal to allow early years providers the choice to increase the number of babies cared for by each carer from three to one to four to one. The Government seek to reassure us by saying that better qualifications will be a prerequisite for increased ratios. It is a matter of regret that the Government chose only to consult on what the qualifications requirement might be rather than if indeed the ratios should be changed. It seems clear to me that the important prerequisite for good-enough baby care is the number of staff. As my mother used to say to the four of us when we were children, she was not an octopus. Staff have only so many arms and eyes, and the overwhelming academic consensus is that, with babies, one needs first a sufficiency of carers. Here I shall quote a literature review from the Victoria University of Wellington in New Zealand entitled, Quality early childhood education for under two year-olds: What should it look like?. It states that,

“the strongest and most consistent predictor of observed positive caregiving in group-based early childhood settings was the adult:child ratio ... caregivers provided more sensitive, frequent and positive care when they were responsible for fewer children ... the optimum ratio for under two year-olds in education and care settings was consistently stated as 1:3”.

The Government seek to reassure us further by looking to France, Germany and Scandinavia. I agree that we should look at best practice from our neighbours but we should, I suggest, do so critically and avoid picking up some of their worst habits. France, for instance, has ratios for babies of five to one. However, according to “The Predicament of Childcare Policy in France: What is at Stake?”, published in volume 19 of the Journal of Contemporary European Studies,

“young children are often cared for by a rotating cast of characters and institutions within the same day. This is particularly so when both parents have non-standard work schedules; when the parent is living alone; or, when there is only one child”.

There is considerable concern about this practice on the continent.

I regret that I am not comforted by the Government’s reassurances. I continue to share the concerns of five of the major childcare providers, of the Early Years Alliance, of Mumsnet and Netmums and, indeed, of the Deputy Prime Minister on this particular topic. I am also uncertain that a change in ratios will produce savings for parents. In a recent editorial, Nursery World drew attention to the many factors contributing to the UK having some of the most expensive provision in the world and suggested that hard-pressed providers may not pass any savings made to parents.

To conclude, I am grateful to the Government for giving childcare this careful attention. I also hope that the Minister might be able to answer two questions. Have the Government looked again at the assessment of the evidence and are they still confident that increasing the number of babies—children aged under two—to carers will not be harmful if it is balanced with a raising of qualifications? What is the Minister’s response to parents’ groups that are concerned about the Government’s proposal? I look forward to the Minister’s response.

Universal Credit Regulations 2013

Earl of Listowel Excerpts

Wednesday 13th February 2013 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Listowel]

My Lords, I shall share some concerns with your Lordships about the regulations but, first, I underline my support for the principle behind the introduction of universal credit. I recall, when I first entered this House, the work of Louise Casey, who was then the rough sleepers’ tsar, appointed by the then Prime Minister. A key part of her successful programme in reducing the number of rough sleepers on the streets was to find purposeful activity for those who had been homeless. It seems to me such a curse that many people are not finding useful things to do with their time and are allowed to fester, sometimes for generations, without being actively involved and engaged in productive work on a daily basis. I welcome the fact that the legislation will make that more possible for more people.

My concern is about vulnerable families. I recall for your Lordships what my chemistry teacher used to say to me. He talked about dynamic equilibriums. I suggest that vulnerable families are subject to a dynamic equilibrium. If they are given the right support, they can thrive and do well. We saw that recently again with the work of Louise Casey, who has been tasked by the right honourable gentleman Iain Duncan Smith, I think—or at least by the Government—with looking at the 120,000 most troubled families and making a difference in their lives. Through her work supporting those 120,000 families, she has managed to decrease significantly the level of domestic violence in their homes and to increase significantly the number of their children attending school on a regular basis. It is possible to act on the positive side of that equilibrium and make a difference to families.

On the other hand, one can see that if one puts those families under too much stress, they can fail. I was reminded recently of that experience when I visited Feltham young offender institution and spoke to prison officers. I had not visited for 10 years, but the same theme came through: so many of the young men with whom they were dealing had never known their fathers—had never had fathers—and the officers found that they had to adopt that role for those young men.

It is critical to support those vulnerable families in the best way that we can. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Eden, for his speech. In this extremely difficult time, when local authority funding is being cut by 28%—and there will be further cuts to services—which is impacting very heavily on services for vulnerable families and their children, a complex change such as this has to be carefully considered to minimise any adverse impact on those families.

So I welcome the principle, but I have concerns about various issues. They have all been raised this afternoon, so I need not go into detail. I was grateful for what the Minister said about the monthly payment of housing benefit to families. There is the payment exemption scheme, which he described, and he is paying particular attention to drug and alcohol misusing families and those with gambling problems. I welcome that, but I share the continuing concern of the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis, that that may well not go far enough. I found what she said very persuasive: there is a danger of underestimating the chaos in many of those families and their inability to manage their finances in the way that we and the Minister would like.

With regard to childcare, important questions have been raised about significant increases in the cost of childcare to families. The changes to housing benefit and the limit on the number of bedrooms that families can have is clearly putting a lot of stress on some of our most vulnerable families and may cause some of them to have to uproot and move to new areas and communities in which they know no one. They may easily feel isolated and, again, are at risk of collapse. I am particularly concerned about the ability of foster carers to keep a room open for a fostered child. In the past, the Minister has gone quite a long way in reassuring me on that point but I would be grateful if he could go further in reiterating that today.

Finally, the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Worcester and others alluded to the concern raised by the Children’s Society, and by my noble friend Lady Grey-Thompson in her report, about how this all impacts on children with a disability. He was concerned that these are often the poorest families, struggling to make ends meet. Given that 100,000 of these children will be up to £28 worse off under the new arrangements, that is a very real cause for concern. I hope that the Minister can say something about how he will monitor the situation for these children carefully and that he will go as far as he can in offering me reassurance on this point.

To conclude, in my experience vulnerable families exist in a dynamic equilibrium. Given the right support, many of them can do a lot better and their children may perhaps break through the generational failure that that family may have experienced. Without the right support, however, particularly in such difficult times, one will often find that their children will fail and possibly end up at Feltham young offender institution, costing the public purse well over £40,000 or £50,000 a year to maintain them there. It is crucial that we get this right and I look forward to the Minister’s response.

[Lord Freud]

My Lords, I give really sincere thanks to everyone who has spoken because I do not often hear a debate where people have worked quite so hard to understand the issues. I might not agree with everything that people have said but the quality of debate has been pretty extraordinary, given the complexity of the issues we are dealing with. I hope that your Lordships all know now that I listen very hard—and I steal or plagiarise as much as I can—so a lot of what your Lordships have said has fallen on fertile ground.

Let me deal with the amendment proposed by the noble Lady, Baroness Sherlock. There are some serious misconceptions in it about what universal credit will do. First, on work incentives, the fact is that universal credit will change them out of all recognition—and manifestly for the better because it will reduce participation tax rates and take away some of the scandalously high rates under the current system, which may be 91% or even 100% in some cases. There are some losers but they are losing, on average, a rather modest 4 percentage points. In many cases, the increased marginal deduction rate is because people are being brought into entitlement for UC, so they are actually better off. They may have a higher marginal deduction rate but have become better off because they have been brought into universal credit.

I do not agree that universal credit penalises savers. In practice, it corrects an overgenerosity in the current tax credit system. It must be right to focus our resources on those households with the fewest resources. Under universal credit, claimants will be able to save up to £6,000 without any impact on their entitlement, in contrast to the typical working-age household, which has £300 in savings.

We are not cutting childcare support; we are investing an additional £200 million in it when we remove the 16-hour rule, which we think will help an additional 100,000 families. The combination of childcare support, higher work allowances and a single taper rate will provide a clear financial incentive that rewards work.

We estimate that around 3.1 million households will have a higher entitlement as a result of universal credit. It is true that, on a static analysis, some households will receive less benefit; however, in practice, we expect that people will adjust their working patterns where they can and will be able to gain—as they can under universal credit. I cannot agree that universal credit is bad for women and lone parents. We know from the experience of tax credits that, in practice, lone parents are among the groups most likely to respond to the financial incentives in the system. In any case, even on a static analysis, in the 3.1 million households that gain there are 2.6 million women. Lone parents will on average gain around £5 per month.

Throughout the passage of the welfare Bill and in recent months, we have debated at length the support for disabled people. We recognise the concern about the impact of the severe disability premium but our aim here is to target additional support on those who have the most severe disabilities or health conditions and who are unable to work, or to work full-time. On average, disabled households will gain by £8 a month. Responsibility for assessing and meeting significant care needs sits with local government. This week, we have set out proposals to put the longer-term funding of such care on a better footing. However, I put on record again my personal commitment to ensuring that we carefully monitor and evaluate the impacts of UC on disabled people.

Universal credit provides appropriate support to self-employed people but only in so far as self-employment is the best route for them to become self-sufficient. As I said in my opening remarks, we have carried out extensive engagement with groups representing businesses and the self-employed, and have responded to their concerns.

In relation to housing, universal credit provides fairness and responsiveness to the housing choices that working families faced already. The best protection against homelessness is a job. Universal credit will provide work incentives and support people in moving into work. Discretionary housing payments are available to help those at risk of being homeless.

The amendment implies that the objective of universal credit is as a savings measure. Nothing could be further from the truth. We are spending more and have huge ambitions to change people’s lives. In any case, we will be monitoring outcomes very carefully. We published a high-level evaluation framework in December 2012, which sets out our proposed evaluation approach and our key aims and objectives. I am happy to reassure the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, that the evaluation of universal credit comprises part of a continuous programme of analysis. It provides real-time evidence and information, as well as a measure of overall impact and success further down the line, although it will take time to assess how different groups experience universal credit and to build up a clear evidence base.

Implementing a system that is dynamic and responsive is at the heart of these reforms. That is why the welfare Act contains a provision to enable the piloting of changes to the system that aim to achieve simplification or change claimant behaviour to improve their labour market outcomes. I am happy to reassure my noble friend Lord Kirkwood that I will personally value continuing the dialogue with this House. I know that this House knows how much it has put into the creation of universal credit.

There were a huge number of points and I will do my best in the limited time to touch on them. The noble Lord, Lord Touhig, requested a lot of detailed figures on IT. I think I will write to him with details, as I have dealt with quite a few of those points in recent PQs, but I will make sure that the noble Lord has an up-to-date list of exactly what we are spending in each year. As I said, I will not go into detail, but we are on time and on budget, we are pushing ahead and we are starting with a pathfinder, to make it work, in April.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Earl of Listowel]

Before the Minister sits down, if it is in order in this procedure of the House, may I ask him a question? I was grateful for his reassuring reply to the noble Lord, Lord Eden, about the great efforts he is making in looking at the administrators and the support and training they need. If he will write to me with some idea of the minimum standards for the supervision of administrators that he might be considering, I will appreciate it.

[Lord Freud]

I will be pleased to write.

Violence Against Women and Girls

Earl of Listowel Excerpts

Thursday 22nd November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I agree with the noble Baroness that primary prevention is vital. That is why we are trying to change attitudes that can lead to violence against women and girls at an early age through national advertising campaigns such as those against teenage relationship abuse and teenage rape. One of those campaigns will be starting again shortly. We are also working with partners to see whether more can be done to identify and support perpetrators at an early stage and encourage them into voluntary programmes to address their behaviour. However, as I am sure that noble Lords will acknowledge, we need to input a great deal of effort when perpetrators are picked up by the criminal justice system, because, while we want to try to tackle this before anyone commits this terrible act of violence in the first place, it is just as important that as soon as a perpetrator has been identified and has gone through the criminal justice system we have a robust programme in place to deal with these men to avoid them reoffending in future.

[The Earl of Listowel]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that drugs and alcohol are often important factors in domestic violence? Is she aware of the important work of the Family Drug and Alcohol Court, pioneered by the district judge, Nicholas Crichton, at the Inner London Family Proceedings Court, in addressing the issue of family drug and alcohol abuse? Will she look with her colleagues at ensuring that the funding of these courts is sustained over time? I apologise if the Minister is not aware of this initiative, but I recommend it for her attention.

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I am grateful to the noble Earl for raising that matter and I will ensure that I am fully informed about it.

Child Poverty

Earl of Listowel Excerpts

Tuesday 26th June 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Freud]

My Lords, one thing on which there has not been enough focus is the importance of behavioural impacts. Income transfers have their place in tackling poverty but they are simply not enough. Behavioural changes are required, and one thing about universal credit is that it brings a change in work incentives, as well as some very precisely targeted income transfers. Vocational education and apprenticeships in this country have just not been adequate, and we have not looked after vulnerable groups—I am thinking of those leaving care and prisoners leaving prison. We need a large number of strategies to tackle this very difficult problem.

[The Earl of Listowel]

Education is the key route out of poverty. Will the Minister encourage his colleagues to look still more closely at the Finnish education system, where 20 candidates compete for each teacher training place, where every teacher, whether in primary or secondary school, has a masters qualification and where excellent results are achieved in numeracy, literacy and science? With regard to young people in care, will he consider again looking at the continent, where he will see how much more qualified the staff in children’s homes are compared with those in our country? Surely these are the children most at risk of poverty. Their carers and the people around them should have a high level of qualifications—ones that they can aspire to themselves.

[Lord Freud]

Yes, my Lords, this is an important point. We have a different approach from many of our continental peers. Looking at the figures, we do not seem to be doing well enough in some of these areas. When there are people who need real support, we need to look more closely at the education of the workforce.

Youth Unemployment

Earl of Listowel Excerpts

Thursday 14th June 2012 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Listowel]

My Lords, it is a privilege to follow the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, and his passionate advocacy for autistic adults and children. I, too, am most grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, for securing this important and timely debate. I thank the Minister for organising a seminar recently on the employment support allowance. It allowed many of us the opportunity to speak to the manager of a jobcentre—to have the privilege of speaking to someone who had spent much of her life helping adults and young people into employment. It was a very helpful experience.

I will concentrate on the lack of employment for young people leaving care. They are especially vulnerable because of their poor start in life. They are heavily overrepresented in the NEETs group; a third of 19 year-olds leaving care are NEETs. One sees the consequences too easily. Half of the juvenile prison population have had care experience, as have a quarter of the adult prison population, while one in seven rough sleepers have care experience. The best chance to protect these young people from such poor outcomes and help them into the job market is to give them an excellent experience while they are in care—to seize the opportunity then to build the resilience that they need.

To concentrate on the most vulnerable group of children in care—young people in children’s homes, who are the neediest 7% of the 60,000 children in local authority care—we could do far better to give them that excellent experience. I highlight these children in part because recent child protection failures for girls, with 187 incidents of suspected prostitution coming from children’s homes in the past 10 months alone, have highlighted the need for reform. Your Lordships may have noted the reports regarding these children on the BBC news and “Newsnight” last night.

There is now an opportunity for the Government to ensure that, in future, young people leaving children’s homes are far more ready for employment or periods of unemployment. For instance, they might institute an independent inquiry into residential care which could look at the professional qualifications of staff and the possibility of emulating the success of the Scottish Institute for Residential Child Care, which is devoted to training staff. They could seek to emulate the success of initiatives in the teaching profession, looking, for instance, at the Training and Development Agency, the National College for School Leadership and the excellent programme Teach First, about which the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, spoke. That is now being stretched to Social Work First and could perhaps be applied to residential care.

In social work, the Government could consider copying the College of Social Work and the introduction of chief social workers in each local authority and central government. They might engage with the public in seeking funds and practical help. They might look to the great success of the charity Volunteer Reading Help, which, in partnership with the Evening Standard, raises funds and recruits reading mentors to work with thousands of our vulnerable children in primary schools. Surely many of the public would be moved to volunteer to help children in residential care with their reading. Some businesses might wish to support services for these young people as an expression of their corporate social responsibility. These are all our children.

The single greatest concern about children’s homes is the mismatch between the qualifications of the staff and the needs of the children. In England, we require staff to have a level-3 NVQ in childcare and a manager to have a level-4 NVQ. They are roughly equivalent to an A-level and the first year of a degree, respectively. On the continent, the norm is a bachelor of arts degree, yet as residential care is far more widely used there, the needs of their children—a mixed group—are far lower. Therefore, we have a perfect storm, with often poorly qualified staff caring for very needy, often very challenging, children.

A project that brought German residential childcare workers to work in children’s homes here was undertaken. Professor Claire Cameron evaluated this work and commented that the German social pedagogues,

“were also rather taken aback by the role of the residential worker in England. They”—

the pedagogues—

“had a range of professional qualifications, the majority of them graduates, and some were also equipped to be employed as social workers in their own country, or to work with other user groups as well in a range of other responsible roles. In contrast, in children’s residential care their English equivalents have low status and little influence. Their professional input is marginalised and they lack autonomy. They usually refer on to experts rather than take control of issues themselves”.

She went on:

“Our child care system is over-bureaucratic and risk-averse. History and policy have created this set of circumstances or not altered them. It is unsurprising that our continental visitors often felt bemused and deskilled”.

The author Paul Connolly grew up in a children’s home. He learnt to read and write in his 20s, and went on to found a successful business and to publish his best-selling autobiography, Against All Odds. When asked the secret of his success, when so many of his peers had died young, he said that he had always sought to surround himself with successful people. For him, the route out of an abusive children’s home environment was a local boxing club and the men there who took an interest in him and encouraged him to become a boxer. Mr Connolly has written to the Children’s Minister, saying:

“I attribute my success to the people who positively influenced me, and my avoidance of negative influences. My experience was that as soon as I left the care system I cut all ties with everyone that was connected, and I surrounded myself with people I could aspire to … It is so important that these vulnerable children can aspire to somebody that has achieved in life and presents a positive role model”.

There are many fine examples of good practice in residential care, and most of those who work there sincerely give their best efforts for these children. However, government action is needed if a consistent high-quality standard of care is to be offered to these young people, and if they are to develop the resilience to succeed in what is now—and will continue to be for several years, as noble Lords have said—a challenging employment market. For many young people, the best placement is in a high-quality children’s home. We need a strategy for this sector to prevent further drifting downwards. I look forward to the Minister’s reply; he may wish to write to me.