Financial Services and Markets Bill

Duncan Baker Excerpts

Consideration of Lords message
Monday 26th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

I rise in support of Lords amendment 27. First, I thank the Ministers in this House and the other place for this important concession. I also express gratitude to those Members from all parties in this House and the other place who supported my campaign on this matter. We are all glad that there will be a mechanism for greater parliamentary oversight of our financial services regulators. The specialist insight from statutory panels on the performance of regulators will be invaluable, particularly on the Financial Conduct Authority’s fulfilment of its all-important consumer protection objective.

To help take things further, I hope to meet the chair of the FCA consumer panel shortly. I will explain why the FCA’s handling of the British Steel pension scheme in 2017 was so very disappointing. It is simple: the FCA faced the City of London, not the homes of vulnerable steelworkers in Ebbw Vale, Port Talbot and Scunthorpe. As parliamentarians, we found it hard to influence the dilatory regulator in support of our steelworker constituents, who deserved much better protection against the financial sharks.

Having said that, amendment 27—in addition to the FCA’s new consumer duty—makes me a little bit hopeful that we will encourage the FCA to become more outward looking and capable of adapting to the changing needs of Britain’s consumers. I am more optimistic that there will be a different way of working; that oversight and scrutiny will be embraced; and that scandals such as the British Steel pension scheme will not happen so easily again.

However, our fight for the proper protection of consumers does not stop there. I declare an interest: the Labour Treasury spokesperson in the other place is my wife, Baroness Chapman. I will speak in support of Lords amendment 10, which she moved in the other place. Financial inclusion is crucial to the regulation of financial services, so I urge the Government to reconsider their opposition to that amendment. The design, marketing and administration of financial products and the quality of financial advice have a direct impact on whether vulnerable groups are properly included in our financial system.

Just last week, I met steelworkers who, once bitten, were twice shy about what to do next with their pension pots. They are smart and highly skilled, yet understandably they do not have the financial knowledge nor the right impartial support on their investment needs. Across our country, there is still the danger of millions like them being at risk of exploitation by bad actors in the financial sector. Financial inclusion should therefore be at the forefront of our regulatory framework. After all, consumers are our financial services sector. They need to have confidence in a regulatory framework that prioritises them and faith in our financial sector.

[Duncan Baker (North Norfolk) (Con)]

I rise to support the Bill, and primarily to speak about access to cash and, therefore, my support for Lords amendments 72 to 77.

I have spoken many times in this place about banking provisions. I brought in a ten-minute rule Bill, the Banking Services (Post Offices) Bill, which the Government did not in the end take up. I have said time and again in this place that the UK is not ready to go cashless. That is why I am particularly pleased with the provisions in this Bill. The reasons for that are manifold. The elderly, the vulnerable and particularly those living in rural locations such as mine of North Norfolk simply rely on cash, and I think I can speak for many Members in the Chamber on that. If Members do not believe me, they have only to look at what the access to cash group said in its research, which is that 5 million adults would struggle without access to cash, and those are often the people on the lowest incomes and the tightest budgets.

[Robin Millar (Aberconwy) (Con)]

My hon. Friend can add to that list residents in my constituency of Aberconwy who have seen the banks withdraw, first from the market towns and towards the coast, and then from coastal towns along the coast—a withdrawal only matched by their move online. Does he agree that this is a good move by the Government, and that it will be welcomed by many people specifically because it retains access to cash for those in societies, communities and demographics for whom cash is a crucial part of their everyday lives?

[Duncan Baker]

I am very happy to agree with my hon. Friend, but I want to go even further. Particularly in the rural and coastal areas he mentions, which is indeed the case with North Norfolk, access to cash is just not good enough. Yes, there are the provisions in the Bill, but we have to go even further. That is why I want to talk about the disgraceful attitude of the banks and what we can do about this through the advent of banking hubs.

Since 1988, some 14,000 bank branches have shut across the United Kingdom. There are only approximately 6,000 left, and what is even more worrying is the acceleration with which they are being shut. We heard the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Hampstead and Kilburn (Tulip Siddiq), say that 54 branches continue to be closed every single month, and that accelerating trend is a particular worry. In my view, there is an absolute lack of corporate social responsibility from the big banks. Given that the UK taxpayer bailed them out in 2008 with such a high number that it is extremely difficult to ascertain what it is—in some cases, it was up to £1 trillion—I think it is particularly poor not to give a hoot about the people affected in these communities.

In my constituency, Lloyds bank, which announced about a month ago that it was going to embark on another wave of closures, is going to close not just one bank branch, but two. I cannot even begin to put into words how upset my constituents are about that, and I have had countless emails. Both at Cromer, which is on the north Norfolk coast and is visited by many thousands of tourists, and further inland at North Walsham, people will suffer a Lloyds bank closure and be left with one bank in the town.

[Sara Britcliffe (Hyndburn) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that when we question why the banks are closing and ask them for evidence, some banks supply evidence from during the pandemic, when obviously banks were closed and not many people were able to access them?

[Duncan Baker]

My hon. Friend makes an extremely important point. So much of this research has been conducted during a window when, of course, footfall was incredibly low because the pandemic meant we were not able to go out and use our high streets in the same way. I think they have used that data to help extrapolate the views and opinions they want, and they then go on and close branches. That goes to the root of what they are doing.

These branches are simply saying, “Don’t worry. You can go online. Oh, there’ll be a community banker to help you. Of course, you can then go and use your local post office.” We know that, in so many communities up and down the land, that just is not appropriate. To take my constituency, I have the oldest cohort of individuals in the entire country: one third of people are over the age of 65. In some coastal towns, the vast majority of my constituents cannot go online, because in many cases they are in their 70s or older and such suggestions are just not appropriate. How can communities of 8,000 people in Cromer and of 13,000 people in North Walsham be left with one bank? The other point not taken into consideration is the expansion of these towns. Under the local plan, North Walsham will see at least another 2,500 homes built over the next decade. The banks take no account whatsoever of the increase in population, and therefore do not factor that into their numbers.

Banking hubs are often given as one answer. Of course, there are others. There is a notable case in Frome in Somerset, which is a similar scheme to a banking hub but is slightly different, and that was also reasonably successful. The big issue with all of this is the regulations on how to get a banking hub. I think we can already see that this is not working as well as it should if only six have opened so far. The criteria include that people have to wait until the last bank in town shuts before they are eligible to have a hub. To me, the rigidity of that structure does not work. We have different sized towns, different sized populations, different age cohorts and towns that are miles away from the nearest bank, so how on earth can certain towns be using that rigid structure? It does not seem right to me. I ask the Minister to keep under review how the banking hub solution, which is being run in conjunction with Link, is being operated. It seems that it is not working well.

The Minister is a really good man. He has met me many times to talk about this issue, and he is certainly in listening mode. He could do a lot worse than dusting off my old Banking Services (Post Offices) Bill and having a look at it. The principle in that Bill was to look at the post office network—it has an 11,500-strong footprint—which I do not think we invest in enough. Instead of having a sweetheart deal between the Government and the banking institutions, let us regulate this with proper legislation saying that we will use our post office network and invest in it as the real future for banking. So many post offices could be banking hubs. It would give real solidity to the market and help many hard-working postmasters know what their future will be.

Finally, the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities is sitting on £150 million in the community ownership fund. Why can we not have a special provision as part of that to give planning permission to buildings that can be used as banking hubs? Again, we could further accelerate the roll-out of these hubs. There is a bit of food for thought there, but I now want to close my remarks. I thank the Minister for listening, but please will he look at our banking hubs and the way they are working? I think we can do a much better job of it.

[Sara Britcliffe]

I agree with everything my hon. Friend the Member for North Norfolk (Duncan Baker) said.

I rise to speak in favour of amendments 72 to 77 on provision for access to cash. I, like many of my colleagues in this Chamber, understand the need of my constituents to have continued access to cash. This demand is concentrated in, although not exclusively restricted to, more disadvantaged groups who may still use cash for budgeting reasons or because they are not technologically literate.

That is why I have campaigned on this. In my constituency of Hyndburn and Haslingden, the number of free-to-use ATMs has fallen by nearly 40% since January 2021. Also, some towns in my constituency, including Great Harwood, have seen all their high street banks close, severely limiting access to cash compared with even a few years ago.

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We all understand the challenges. I have met with banks in my constituency and companies like LINK, and I am well aware that the long-term trends in digital payments and card payments are only going one way. But I strongly believe that even in the face of that evidence, we need to protect those individuals and businesses that still use cash.

I was a local business owner in Oswaldtwistle and we had to run between local businesses just to make sure we had the change we needed to run them. This is therefore very important, especially when the post offices close, which happened in Oswaldtwistle. We must make sure that provision is still in place and is easily accessible, especially for the older residents who live in all our constituencies.

Recently, I have been talking to businesses in Great Harwood, where all the high street banks have closed and the impact of the lack of ATMs is severe, especially if a business is cash-only or its card facilities are down. I am speaking to LINK and trying to get a banking hub in Great Harwood, and I am feeding in the issues facing local businesses, some of whom must travel out of the constituency to Blackburn or to Mr Deputy Speaker’s patch of wonderful Ribble Valley.

That is why I welcome the Chancellor accepting the Lords amendments on free access to cash. Having spoken to people across my constituency, I know how important that is. It is great to see the Government standing up for those who would struggle were the stark decline in cash access to continue.

I thank the Minister for his engagement throughout the process. I warmly welcome Lords amendments 72 to 77.