Infected Blood Compensation Scheme

Debate between Diana Johnson and John Glen

Tuesday 21st May 2024 Commons Chamber

[John Glen]

I thank the Chair of the Select Committee for his comments. I also thank the Chancellor for his unwavering commitment to resolving this in a timely way, both when I was Chief Secretary and now in this role.

With respect to the five loss categories, my hon. Friend makes a legitimate point about a specific additional burden that is a consequence of these conditions. That matter will no doubt be raised by some in the communities. The structure of the scheme is based around: injuries, social impact, autonomy, care and financial loss. Clearly, social impact and autonomy capture a range of unspecific things—a basket of goods, if you like—that people will not have been able to procure at the same cost. I cannot give him a specific answer on that, but Jonathan Montgomery and his team of experts have done everything they can to look at the law, consider what the entitlement would be in different circumstances and give their best assessment, and those sorts of conversations will happen with the communities in the coming weeks.

[Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

I welcome the Minister’s statement today. Reflecting on the fact that he has talked about those infected and affected being fully engaged, I gently remind him of the maxim “No decision about us without us”, and of the lack of transparency so far in the expert panel. It is only today that we will learn the names of the people who have been advising the Government.

May I also welcome the appointment of Sir Robert Francis as interim chair of the infected blood body? It is worth reflecting on what Sir Brian put in his report yesterday about the Government’s failure to respond to Sir Robert Francis’s compensation framework document, which the Leader of the House commissioned when she was Paymaster General, and which the Government promised several times to respond to. That was never published.

Because we have also not had a proper written response to the second interim report from Sir Brian last April, will the Minister set out whether all 18 recommendations are being accepted by the Government? If not, why not? Will he confirm how the Government will ensure that the compensation authority is accountable directly to Parliament, as recommended by the infected blood inquiry?

[John Glen]

I thank the right hon. Lady for her observations and for her ongoing engagement since my appointment. I take seriously her point about having no decisions without full engagement. I made a decision, in order to get to this point where we would, in principle, accept the recommendations of Sir Brian Langstaff and move forward with the independent expert panel. As I have said to her previously, I was always prepared to reveal the names of those individuals, but I did not want them to be distracted while they did urgent work to make progress quickly. Their names will be available shortly—today.

Sir Robert Francis and I had a number of conversations about the interaction between Government and the expert group, and the logic that I used to get to the heads of loss and the scheme today. I am delighted that he is prepared to facilitate engagement with the communities.

I have also been mindful of the principle of the Government managing public money while also recognising Sir Brian’s imperative to set up a body that is at arm’s length from Government, in order to generate some trust with a very vulnerable community. Reconciling those two has not been straightforward. The right hon. Lady asked about the accountability of the arm’s length body. These matters will need to be discussed further with respect to the regulations that we must lay before the House.

A number of my predecessors have done a lot of work on this issue. I am pleased that we have made significant progress, but there is an intense amount of work to be done to deliver this over the next three months. I look forward to working constructively with her, as Sir Robert Francis does, to ensure that we get this to the right place as quickly as possible.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Diana Johnson and John Glen

Thursday 25th April 2024 Commons Chamber

[John Glen]

The hon. Lady is right: in July, in response to those three reports from the Committee on Standards in Public Life, the Boardman review and the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee, the Government did say they would work up strengthening the rules on business appointments and developing that ministerial deed. I cannot give an update at this point, because it is work the Deputy Prime Minister and his team are leading on, but it is important work and we do need to get it right.

[Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

T4. I thank the Paymaster General for all his hard work on the contaminated blood scandal. However, as you would expect, Madam Deputy Speaker, I still urge him to go further and faster to get this situation resolved. If the infected blood compensation authority is to be established upon Royal Assent, can the Minister outline the timescale and process for the appointment of the chair and the other directors, and how those with lived experience will be involved and included among those directors?

[John Glen]

I thank the right hon. Lady for her kind words and her constructive approach. It is absolutely right that she continues to press me, as she does at every opportunity. Reflecting on our conversations and what she has said to me, the key thing is to ensure that we maintain and reclaim the trust of the infected blood community in all its dimensions. She will know that I am engaging with them in depth over several meetings on 1 and 10 May. Sir Brian Langstaff made clear that the infected blood community and all those accessing the scheme should have a role to play in its delivery, so, consequential to listening to what they say to me, I will be thinking about how we build that in. As she knows, the Government have made provisions for committees and sub-committees to ensure representation of the communities, while also maintaining an independent, arm’s length body. I will need to reconcile those. I am sorry that I cannot give her a timetable, but I am working on it in some detail.

Infected Blood Inquiry

Debate between Diana Johnson and John Glen

Tuesday 23rd April 2024 Commons Chamber

[Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office to make a statement on the evidence uncovered of experiments on children and the contaminated blood scandal, and update the House on the action that the Government are taking on the second interim report from Sir Brian Langstaff.

[The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General (John Glen)]

Let me start by stating that the stories reported in the recent BBC news article, and indeed The Sunday Times report by Caroline Wheeler, demonstrate the unimaginable suffering of all those impacted by this dreadful scandal. As the House will know, in 2017 the Government established an independent public statutory inquiry chaired by Sir Brian Langstaff, to give those impacted and their families the answers that they deserve.

Since it was established, the inquiry has taken evidence from a range of sources, and the testimonies are indicative of the bravery of every individual who has come forward. The infected blood inquiry’s final report is due to be published within a month, on 20 May, and we expect the inquiry’s findings to cover a set of extremely challenging issues. It would not be right for the Government to pre-empt the findings of this long-prepared and carefully considered report, but the Government have committed to update Parliament through an oral statement on next steps within 25 sitting days following 20 May. It is our intention to make that statement as soon as possible. The 25-day stipulation is a deadline, and certainly not a target.

In January this year, I appointed an expert group to provide technical advice to the Cabinet Office in responding to the infected blood inquiry’s recommendations on compensation. That work is well under way and will build on the recommendations of the infected blood inquiry to inform the Government’s substantive response to the inquiry’s recommendations on compensation. The Government understand the need to move quickly to provide compensation to victims of infected blood. Most recently, we tabled amendments just last Wednesday to the Victims and Prisoners Bill to impose a duty on the Government to establish an infected blood compensation scheme. It also establishes a new arm’s length body, named the infected blood compensation authority, to deliver the compensation scheme. It will operate on a UK-wide basis to ensure parity and consistency. That demonstrates our absolute commitment to deliver long overdue justice to victims of infected blood.

We understand that for many there is an urgent need for compensation. As the House will know, in October 2022, the Government paid more than £400 million in interim compensation to help to ease the short-term needs of those infected. The Government amendment also includes a statutory duty to make interim payments of £100,000 to the estates of the deceased infected people who were registering with existing or former support schemes, where previous interim payments have not already been made to infected individuals or their bereaved partners. That is an important step forward to get substantial compensation into the hands of families and victims of infected blood. Should that Government amendment be supported in the other place, it will return to this House for debate in the usual process of Commons consideration of Lords amendments.

[Dame Diana Johnson]

We know that more than 3,000 people have already died in the worst treatment disaster in the history of the NHS. Another 680 have died since the public inquiry started in 2018. With two people dying on average every week, 100 people have died since Sir Brian made his final recommendations on paying compensation in April 2023. He said that

“wrongs were done at individual, collective and systemic levels.”

He also said that in all conscience he could not wait until his final report was published to tell the Government to start paying compensation.

Last week, Hugh Pym of the BBC produced shocking evidence about children, even babies, being experimented on in the 1970s and 1980s without their parents’ consent. These disturbing revelations raise serious criminal and ethical issues for the NHS and the medical profession. There are possible breaches of the 1947 Nuremberg code. Alongside that, The Sunday Times, and Caroline Wheeler, in particular launched a campaign at the weekend for compensation to be paid now to those infected and affected by the contaminated blood scandal. So far, more than 160 MPs have backed the campaign, and 10 parties are represented, including six leaders.

Last week, the Government finally laid those amendments to the Victims and Prisoners Bill in the other place after this House forced the Government to act in December last year. This weekend, Ministers confirmed that even when Sir Brian produces his final report on 20 May, the Government may not respond until as late as 3 July 2024. Meanwhile, there has been no announcement on compensation funding or on any compensation scheme, despite the Government having accepted the moral case for compensation.

What action are the Government taking following last week’s BBC story on the experiments on children? When will Sir Brian’s recommendations on compensation be implemented in full? On what date will payments be made to those infected and affected? Why have the interim payments not been made, as Sir Brian recommended last April? How will those infected and affected be involved in the whole scheme? Why are Ministers rejecting the three-month timeframe for setting up a compensation body that this House agreed to in December last year, and Sir Brian’s recommendation that it should be judge-led?

On all sides of the House, Members know that when people are dying, justice delayed is justice denied. The time to act is now.

[John Glen]

I thank the right hon. Lady for her questions and initial comments. Nobody in this House has done more than her to advance the interests of the infected and affected communities, as I have said consistently since I took office on 13 November. I recognise her frustrations and am doing everything I can to address them. Last week, I met her and other Chairs, across parties, as I did just before the Easter recess, and I will continue to update her as regularly as I can.

The right hon. Lady draws attention to commentary from Hugh Pym and other journalists about speculation and allegations, which I believe Sir Brian Langstaff’s report, when it is published on 20 May, should give substantive airing to, drawing on the evidence collected. It would be reasonable for the Government to wait for that authoritative statement on what information and evidence they have gathered before we respond, but that does not mean that, since I took office, I have been doing anything other than move forward everything I can on compensation as quickly as possible.

The right hon. Lady is quite right to say that over 3,000 deaths have occurred since 1970, including 141 last year. I recognise that the challenge of urgently securing interim payments, in terms of the mechanics of how it is done, is not a concern of the infected and affected community. She quite reasonably stands up and urges speed on that, and I am doing what I can. The statutory duty to make an interim payment of £100,000 to the estates of the deceased infected people is the first time that we have put in legislation a duty to pay compensation before the ad hoc schemes, which, over the past 45 or 50 years, have never admitted culpability. I have also put into legislation, with the consent of both Houses, the need to set up the arm’s length body and make it as operational as soon as possible.

As I discussed with the right hon. Lady last week, my concern is to get that arm’s length body up and running as quickly as possible, and there is a legal obligation to do so when Royal Assent is gained—there is no statutory deadline but there is a responsibility to do that. I recognise the concern around a judge-led body. Indeed, Sir Brian Langstaff’s report suggests that a judge-led body would be desirable—I do not rule that out—but at this stage it seems reasonable not to confine it in legislation in case another candidate becomes available. Clearly, however, gaining the confidence of the affected and infected communities is absolutely integral to this process working. As I say, I am doing everything I can to bring forward the Government’s substantive response on the widest issues of compensation as near as I can to the 20 May, and I will update the House as often as I can. Indeed, I have made time available tomorrow for an open surgery for any MP who wants to bring cases to me.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Diana Johnson and John Glen

Thursday 29th February 2024 Commons Chamber

[John Glen]

I am aware of the comments about a TV drama, but I am concerned to ensure that we build on the decision of this place on 4 December with respect to the Victims and Prisoners Bill. That Bill is working its way through the other place. Committee will finish on 12 March, so Report stage cannot happen before 15 April. Listening to the testimony of the hon. Lady and of those in the other place, whose nephews and husbands died as a result of contaminated blood, has made me more determined to ensure that the Government’s response is as comprehensive as possible and that it meets the expectations of everyone in this place and of the country at large.

[Dame Diana Johnson]

I think the Minister is a good man and is trying to do his best, but this is the biggest treatment scandal in the history of the NHS. We have had six years of a public inquiry. The Government have now had the recommendations on compensation for 12 months. I understand that the Minister has not yet met anyone infected or affected, or taken any soundings from any of the campaign groups. Now, we hear in a written question this week that his expert group were not allowed to know the names of those people or to have the minutes of those meetings or of any of the workings that are taking place. Does he understand that, after decades of cover-up and criminal activity, the lack of transparency with which the infected and affected are being treated is totally unacceptable?

[John Glen]

I explained to the right hon. Lady when I met her on 6 February, and again when I spoke to her on 8 February, the context of Professor Sir Jonathan Montgomery’s appointment. As she knows, Sir Brian recommends that eligibility for compensation includes those with hepatitis C, HIV and all chronic cases of hepatitis B.

On the right hon. Lady’s question about engagement with the groups, I am very keen to engage when the Report stage happens in the middle of April. I will then work on plans to engage with as many groups as possible across the United Kingdom, building on my conversations with representatives of the devolved Administrations on 6 February.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

Interim payments are, by their very nature, interim; they are paid before final payments. Perhaps the Minister might be able to help me to understand. He just said that works are going on at pace, so when will the interim payments, recommended by Sir Brian Langstaff in April 2023, to parents who lost children and children who lost parents be paid before the final payments are made?

[John Glen]

As soon as possible, and when the Government’s position is clear.

Infected Blood Inquiry: Government Response

Debate between Diana Johnson and John Glen

Monday 18th December 2023 Commons Chamber

[John Glen]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question. I have been in discussions on the appointment of clinical, legal and social care experts since my first week in office in November. We have identified individuals, and communicated with them last week. We want to get them on board with this work in the early days of the new year, so that that work can happen as quickly as possible. I wanted to avoid a situation where people were going out to compete for roles. What we want is the best people across those specialisms so that this work can make urgent progress, aligned with our intention to respond substantively later in the year.

[Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

In April 2023, Sir Brian Langstaff said:

“I recommend that a compensation scheme should be set up now and it should begin work this year.”

What exactly does the Minister not understand in that statement? This statement today will cause huge anguish to victims of the 50-year-old scandal and, in noting that the Prime Minister whipped Conservative Members to vote down the new clause on 4 December, fuel their suspicion that the Government are still playing for time, even though they accept the moral case. This therefore is adding one final insult to injury. Will the Minister tell us why the Prime Minister can find what the Deputy Prime Minister said yesterday is unlimited funding for the Rwanda policy, but is still pushing back, after a five-year public inquiry, against compensation—and even interim compensation for the groups that have never received anything—for people who have suffered so much for so long after what the state did to them?

[John Glen]

I recognise the right hon. Lady’s frustration and disappointment with where we have got to. The work that she has done, and the work that was expressed in the amendment, is urgently being examined by me and my officials.

[Dame Diana Johnson]

It was Sir Brian’s recommendation.

[John Glen]

I recognise Sir Brian’s recommendations, and I have done what I can to move us to a place where we meet the expectations as quickly as possible in the new year. I said to the right hon. Lady when I met her and my hon. Friend the Member for Worthing West (Sir Peter Bottomley) that my officials were engaged in looking at the options for the delivery vehicle. I must now examine how that operates with the legislative vehicle, which has been amended by the House. I will do everything that I can to update the House as quickly as I can.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Diana Johnson and John Glen

Thursday 23rd November 2023 Commons Chamber

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

9. What progress his Department has made on implementing the interim recommendations of the infected blood inquiry.

[The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General (John Glen)]

I strongly commend the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson) for her work for those who have been impacted by the infected blood scandal, and I look forward to working across the House on this important issue. The Government have accepted the moral case for compensation but it is only reasonable that the response is fully informed by Sir Brian Langstaff’s final report, which is anticipated in March next year.

[Dame Diana Johnson]

Eight months ago, recommendation 12 of the final report on compensation called for interim payments of £100,000 to be

“paid to recognise the deaths of people to date unrecognised and alleviate immediate suffering.”

The “Cambridge Dictionary” describes the word “interim” as something

“temporary and intended to be used or accepted until something permanent exists”.

I know the Minister is a good man and will want to do his best, so can he tell the House when those interim payments will start to be paid?

--- Later in debate ---

[John Glen]

No, I cannot guarantee that, because I do not yet have collective agreement, but I am working towards that ambition and that is what I want to achieve.

[Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

Why have Scotland and Wales been able to set up psychological support services for the victims of the contaminated blood scandal, but England has not?

[John Glen]

It is because I have not yet secured collective agreement to do so. The funds are available, and it is absolutely right that we bring that forward as soon as possible. Again, that is one of the activities that I will be engaged in resolving later this morning.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Diana Johnson and John Glen

Tuesday 9th May 2023 Commons Chamber

[John Glen]

I think that we have made commitments on the first phase. The Chancellor is considering the next steps further and will update the House in due course.

[Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

The Financial Times is reporting today that there have been meetings between the Treasury and the Department of Health and Social Care about compensation for victims following the infected blood inquiry. Will the Minister confirm that those meetings have taken place and who was present, and offer reassurance to those who were infected and affected that compensation will be implemented in full, as Sir Brian Langstaff has recommended?

[John Glen]

I believe that the Minister for the Cabinet Office updated the House on this matter a couple of weeks ago, and I am sure that he will be keen to do so again when those conversations have taken place.

UK Gross Domestic Product

Debate between Diana Johnson and John Glen

Monday 13th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[John Glen]

Yes, I can. In a few weeks’ time I shall introduce to the House a financial services and markets Bill that will fundamentally reset the way that our financial services industry, which constitutes 10% of the economy, will be regulated into the future. That will be underpinned by strong, independent world-class regulators in the Prudential Regulation Authority and the Financial Conduct Authority, but with an obligation to look at competitiveness and global growth as a secondary objective. That is absolutely imperative. We must make sure that we have an economy that takes account of what is going on elsewhere and regulates accordingly.

[Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

In the coalition years, we heard from the Government about rebalancing the economy, and under Chancellor Osborne and the northern powerhouse, we were told that we were going to see the proceeds of growth fairly shared across the country. Will the Minister say something about the flagship levelling-up agenda, how it will be implemented when we face a no-growth economy, and whether the levelling-up agenda will really mean levelling down for everybody?

[John Glen]

No, it will not. It will involve targeted investments across the country in schemes that will give us a lift in productivity and address the fact that under previous Governments, despite all the rhetoric, there was not that reset in investment across other parts of the country and we did not see the level of growth that was anticipated.

Coronavirus: Employment Support

Debate between Diana Johnson and John Glen

Thursday 19th March 2020 Commons Chamber

[John Glen]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his observations. He is right, but there is no sense that the Government are saying that what we have announced is the last announcement we are going to make. It is a question of making sure that when we announce measures, they will be effective in meeting the needs that we know exist. All of us, across the House, will have been inundated with emails from concerned individuals and businesses. We are taking that on board and acting as swiftly as we can. The points raised today are directly informing the nature of our response.

[Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

I understand that this is very difficult for the Government and I am sympathetic, but this is about real people’s lives. The Treasury’s natural approach—being cautious and wanting to stress-test everything—is not appropriate in these circumstances. The right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith) suggested some really good ideas. Why can they not just be implemented today?

[John Glen]

I understand the hon. Lady’s frustration. It is totally reasonable for Members of this House to be extremely concerned in the absence of the announcement, but it would be even worse, I would suggest, if we made ad hoc announcements when different Government Departments were not quite ready to implement those effectively. We are talking about an unprecedented crisis, and therefore we will need to take unprecedented measures. It is important that we do that as swiftly as possible, but it is also important that we do it as effectively as possible.