Refugees (Family Reunion) (No.2) Bill

Debate between Debbie Abrahams and Anna Soubry

2nd reading: House of Commons
Friday 16th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (Con)]

I, too, am proud to sponsor the Bill. I congratulate the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Angus Brendan MacNeil), and endorse everything that he said in his excellent speech. I also fully endorse everything that was said by, in particular, my hon. Friend the Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill). Ever the lawyer, he made the valid point that the Bill is very modest. It not only improves the existing legislation, but makes it considerably fairer. I join him in saying to Members—notably Conservative Members—that if they feel unable to support it, as I understand may happen, they should nevertheless allow it to proceed to its Third Reading. Any problems can be ironed out before then.

This is a small but incredibly important measure, which also enables us to send a strong signal from the Conservative Benches about the type of Conservative that we are all proud to call ourselves. It is very easy to take a group of people and attach to them a label that dissociates oneself from seeing each and every person in that group as what he or she is: a human being with a story to tell.

Let me remind the House what a refugee is. A refugee is defined as

“A person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster.”

It is not a free choice. No one wakes up of a morning and says, “I think that today I will leave everything I have ever known and loved for generations, and make myself a refugee.” I will dwell on that in a moment, but first let me pay tribute to my own Conservative local authority, Broxtowe Borough Council.

We have taken in four Syrian families. Not only have we accommodated and provided for them—as well as welcoming them—but we have continued to support them, because each of those four families is in our country for a very good reason. They are not here just because they are refugees, as in my description. At least one member of each family has suffered in a way that goes beyond some of our comprehension. Those family members have been tortured, or have been subjected to some form of sexual abuse, or have a particular medical need which means that the last place they should be is in a refugee camp, or in the sort of accommodation that the Jordanian Government have—rightly—provided. Their need is even greater, and I am proud that we have given them a home in Broxtowe.

I am also proud of the work that our Government have done in respect of the provision of aid for refugees, and not just those fleeing from Syria. In more recent times we have been providing aid for the Rohingya people, and I am proud of our 0.7% record.

When I went to Jordan just over a year ago as a guest of Oxfam, along with the hon. Member for Tooting (Dr Allin-Khan), the reality of meeting a human being—not seeing the label on a group of people, but meeting individuals—was one of the most profound things that has ever happened to me in my life. I met a teacher, a man living in two rooms with his two children and his wife, in the cold, sitting around one of those peculiar gas heaters that are provided. I am going to be very blunt in my description of this remarkable man, because what I saw in his eyes was shame.

He felt almost ashamed that he was living in such circumstances; I am not saying he was a proud man in any way, but I would not be surprised if he was so. This is a real human being; he did not choose to be in those circumstances through any desire other than to escape the real horrors of Syria. He left his job; he left his home. I met other people who had left successful businesses, but it does not matter what class they are, or what trade or skill they might have; they are human beings who fled abominable circumstances. They must have been abominable, otherwise they would not have left, and they scooped up the barest of possessions, as my hon. Friend the Member for Bromley and Chislehurst said. They do not think, “Have I got this piece of paper?” or whatever; they just get the hell out.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

I have a very similar case. A young architect called Samira escaped from Syria. She was separated from her husband Samir, but he finally, with help from my office, managed to get to this country. They are both practising architects, now contributing to the country, but they escaped war-torn Syria and were separated. This Bill will enable other such families and couples to thrive and contribute to our country.

[Anna Soubry]

I could not agree more with the hon. Lady, and there are many such examples.

I went to the Zaatari refugee camp, where I met a 19-year-old who had lived in a tin shed for four years. His father had had his own business in Syria. Again, he scooped up everything and fled, through terror. Meeting this 19-year-old was a genuinely concerning and distressing experience. Where was his hope? He had been there for four years; he did not want to be in that place. He could not work, and although our Government are doing a fine job of providing education for his younger siblings, where was his hope?

The second most striking feature I experienced was the clear desire to go home. They do not want to be living in those conditions; they want to go home—they want to go back to their country, of which they are so proud. We should try to imagine year after year after year seeing the possibility of returning to our home disappearing. These are remarkable people: their hope, their strength, their humanity, and the way they kept themselves together, somehow with a semblance of pride, has never left me.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Debbie Abrahams and Anna Soubry

Tuesday 15th March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

7. What steps his Department is taking to help small businesses receive prompt payment from their customers.

[The Minister for Small Business, Industry and Enterprise (Anna Soubry)]

Of course, we know that for small businesses late payment is a serious problem and continues to be so. That is why we are creating the small business commissioner, whose fundamental guiding principle will be to tackle this problem, because we want to change the culture. It is good to see that some of the larger companies have already changed their late payment policies quite significantly in favour of smaller businesses, in some instances reducing the period to 14 days, especially for micro-businesses. From October, larger companies will be under a duty to report their payment policies.

[Debbie Abrahams]

We welcome the creation of a small business commissioner as part of the Enterprise Bill, but given that last year’s National Audit Office report showed that four Departments were failing to meet the Government’s payment deadlines, why were public sector contracts not included?

Business Transactions: Cash Retentions

Debate between Debbie Abrahams and Anna Soubry

Wednesday 27th January 2016 Westminster Hall

[The Minister for Small Business, Industry and Enterprise (Anna Soubry)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Crausby. I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Upper Bann (David Simpson) not only on securing the debate but on the powerful speech that he made. There have been many interventions, and powerful points and arguments have been made.

This has been a good debate, although it has not been a real debate, because we have not heard anybody who does not agree that there are strong and powerful arguments for taking action on the problem of cash retentions. Hon. Members are probably getting the drift of the fact that in some ways, they are banging at an open door with this Minister. I absolutely understand the arguments about the need for reform, including the powerful arguments this morning.

I want to mention someone who came to see me, Mr Simon Bingham, who is head of one of the small businesses that the hon. Member for Upper Bann referred to. Mr Bingham’s business is just 100 metres over the constituency border in the seat next to mine, which is held by the hon. Member for Ashfield (Gloria De Piero), so strictly speaking he should have gone to her, but he came my way because I made an error, and we had a great conversation. He has a company called Caunton Engineering Ltd. He also chairs the contracts committee of the British Constructional Steelwork Association, and he gave me the real-life evidence that the hon. Member for Upper Bann referred to, because he lives in the real world with the outdated way of doing things that we have heard about.

There are good reasons and arguments for having some sort of retention. I do not think any of us disagree with that. We know about snagging, and the faults that exist, and things that have not been done properly that come to light only six months after the completion of work on a contract, or even later. There needs to be provision so that such things can be rectified. As the hon. Gentleman and, I suspect, the hon. Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth (Debbie Abrahams) know, in major construction projects, such as the recent tram project in my constituency, problems occur and we need a device to make sure the job is properly done and finished.

Equally, we know from our experiences that in the case of large housing developments, bonds are put in place at the beginning of the process, before the first sod is turned, to ensure that if the developer or builder gets into difficulty, funds will be available to make sure that the roads are properly finished. I have an example in my constituency, which I will not bore hon. Members with, but bonds are specifically put in place at the insistence of local authorities so that roads are completed and all the other work is done, and so that money is available in the event of somebody going under or some other catastrophe happening.

I cannot understand why a similar scheme cannot be operated in the construction industry. That sounds like good news, but I may be about to disappoint hon. Members. I fervently ask hon. Members not to seek to amend the Enterprise Bill, only because we have launched a review. I am grateful to Andrew Wolstenholme, the chief executive of Crossrail, who absolutely understands the problem and has agreed to oversee the review. It will be an extensive review that will take evidence and look at evidence, but its work will not be completed until the end of this year, when its recommendations will go out for further consultation. I accept that it could be said that that is an inordinate length of time, but I promise that I will look at the time that we have currently given to that review, because there is a growing feeling among all parties that we really need to get on and sort it out.

[Debbie Abrahams]

The review seems like good news. I am sure the SEC Group and others who, like me, have been campaigning on this issue for five years will see it as good news. However, promises have been made in the past, and there will be concerns that this will be seen as yet another prevarication to address the issue.

[Anna Soubry]

It could never be said that this Government would prevaricate in any way or seek to knock things into the long grass.

Trade, Exports, Innovation and Productivity

Debate between Debbie Abrahams and Anna Soubry

Wednesday 13th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Anna Soubry]

What is very interesting is the number of companies introducing the new living wage, irrespective of the age of their employees. I absolutely welcome that. For every good thing we do, however, there is always somebody who knocks us and wants something more. There is nothing wrong with wanting more, but people should give credit where credit is due. This is a huge achievement, and I am proud the Conservative party has done it.

I have to say that I really struggle to take lessons on the economy from the Scottish National party. It is a party that built its whole idea of independence, which mercifully the good people of Scotland rejected, on the idea that oil was going to be the lubricant—the foundation—of their independent economy. Goodness me! Oil is now $35 a barrel, and it is accepted that if the SNP had been successful, the cost would have been somewhere in the region of £5,000 for every single household. Scotland would have been in the most atrocious economic place if it had voted for independence—thank goodness the good people of Scotland took the wise decision that we were undoubtedly better together. It is therefore really difficult for me to take lessons from this rag, tag and bobtail SNP, which encompasses everything from tartan Tories to tartan Trots. It is going to be very interesting, as the Smith report—

[Debbie Abrahams]

rose—

[Anna Soubry]

I will give way in a moment; I’m on a roll.

As the Smith report is implemented and the Scotland Bill comes into force, the SNP will finally have the powers it seeks—it will be the most devolved Government in the world—and it will be interesting to see—

[Anna Soubry]

In a moment.

Then the SNP will have responsibility, and we will see whether it will be able to deliver. I would bet good money that it will not be able to.

[Debbie Abrahams]

The Minister is making an interesting speech, but I must challenge her on this flailing economy. The Government were meant to have eradicated the debt by 2015 and they have only halved it. They are borrowing £73.5 billion this year, so the Minister is obviously putting a positive spin on this economic plan. Let us see how long it lasts—the Government have been giving warning signs that it might not. To pick up on what the hon. Member for Dundee East (Stewart Hosie) said, the IMF has said that if we invest more in the 20% on the lowest incomes, we will boost economic growth—something that the Government have singularly failed to do. Why have they not done that?

[Anna Soubry]

The IMF has been wholesome in its praise of our economic plan and the successes we have had. Much as I may like the hon. Lady on a personal level, I really struggle to take lessons from her. The last Labour Government doubled debt, whereas we have “only” halved the deficit. I am rather proud of “only” halving the deficit, while we see from her words that the poor old Labour party cannot learn from the mistakes of the past. Goodness knows the route it is now embarking on under its current leadership, but it looks set to be in opposition for a long time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Anna Soubry]

I will give way in a moment; I just want to say something about trade and exports, because it is important. Otherwise, I will be speaking for far too long and Madam Deputy Speaker will admonish me, and rightly so.

In considering trade and exports, we should recall the importance of the United Kingdom’s large domestic market and the benefits it brings to all parts of the UK. The rest of the UK is by far and away Scotland’s biggest economic partner. Sixty-three per cent of all Scottish exports go to the rest of the UK. The biggest threat to Scottish exports is the SNP, which would put up barriers between Scotland and the rest of the UK. Trade and exports are a key element of continuing to grow the UK’s economy, which is why this Government are committed to making it easier for companies to export. We provide support to companies wanting to export, through UK Trade & Investment, and work with other Governments to reduce barriers to trade. Our trade deficit narrowed by £0.3 billion in the three months to November, and the number of companies exporting both in the UK and Scotland is up since 2010, but we know we have a lot further to go.

Delivering on all the EU’s trade negotiations could add £20 billion to the UK economy annually. We know that trade agreements work. In the four years since the EU-Korea free trade agreement came into force, the value of UK exports has more than doubled. We have seen a 1,000% increase in the value of jet engine sales. The UK sold just 2,315 cars to Korea in the final year before the FTA was agreed. Last year, that number reached 13,337, and it is not just the big companies that benefit. One Scottish business was able to sell 100,000 jars of jam in Korea last year, after the FTA slashed import duties. That is why this Government are committed to delivering freer global trade, concluding major trade deals with the United States, Japan and many other trading partners.

That, as hon. Members might imagine, brings me to the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership. Last year I responded to the debate in the House about TTIP. I am not going to repeat all the things I said, but it really is disingenuous of those on the SNP Benches—and, indeed, on the Labour Benches—to oppose TTIP on the utterly false premise that it would threaten our public services, in particular the NHS. It is not true. There are so many letters, including—I think a number of hon. Members were in that debate, so they will remember—the letter from the EU, which was written in December 2014, to the Chair of the Select Committee on Health, who had asked specific questions about whether TTIP posed any threat to our national health service. Every time the answer was an overwhelming no. Everybody who could have said, “There is no threat from TTIP to any of our public services, especially the NHS”, has said it, over and over again. It is grossly unfortunate that Opposition Members and Opposition parties peddle these untruths about TTIP. It is simply not right or fair to mislead people as they are.

[Debbie Abrahams]

There does seem to be some ambiguity, because despite the letter to the Select Committee, we have evidence saying completely the opposite. In view of that ambiguity, why does the Minister not say that the NHS will be exempt from TTIP and rule it out completely?

[Anna Soubry]

I do not know how many times I have said it, but I am going to send all the information to the hon. Lady. It will say all these things and make it absolutely clear that TTIP is not a threat to our public services and our NHS. In fact, on the contrary, it will deliver billions of pounds of wealth to our economy, because it will free up trade between us and the USA. I think Opposition Members have got to be honest about it. I think the real problem is their prejudice against the USA. They should fess up and be honest about it, because they are creating bogeys that do not exist.

--- Later in debate ---

[Anna Soubry]

We are taking time to bring them in. It is, of course, a mix. In some instances, providing loans is absolutely the right thing to do, whereas in others we might well provide a grant. Flexibility is the right approach, and this allows us to put in the necessary money, even in these difficult times. I think we are doing the right thing about that.

[Debbie Abrahams]

The Federation of Small Businesses report on productivity identifies late payments to small businesses as one of the key issues. Will the Minister commit to addressing cash retention in the construction industry—a key issue that is due to come before us again in the Enterprise Bill?

[Anna Soubry]

I realise that there is a good argument in favour, but we are conducting a consultation. As the hon. Lady knows, my door is open. I would be more than happy to discuss it with her because I know about the powerful arguments in favour, but there are also strong arguments against it. The consultation might allow us to make some progress.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Debbie Abrahams and Anna Soubry

Monday 24th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Anna Soubry)]

I agree with some of the sentiments expressed by my hon. Friend. There is no place, in my view, for European human rights law to come into any of this. We have a Geneva convention and we have good strong international law that should determine these matters. I am concerned, however, about how some solicitors act. All solicitors, like those in all professions, are guided by strict codes of conduct and if anyone thinks that a firm of solicitors or an individual is not abiding by that code, they should absolutely report them to their professional body so that swift action is taken. They should at all times behave with complete integrity.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

T3. Official figures show that the Government granted 68 export licences for nearly £7 million-worth of military-use items to be sent to Israel between January and June of this year. What discussions did the Defence Secretary have with the Business Secretary about those licences and why did the Government refuse to suspend them during the offensive on Gaza this summer, when they clearly broke the guiding principle of being responsible exports?

Dementia

Debate between Debbie Abrahams and Anna Soubry

Thursday 10th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

I congratulate right hon. and hon. Members on securing this important debate. The speeches have been moving and thoughtful. Today has demonstrated the best of Parliament, with MPs coming together and contributing to how we can resolve the dreadful issues around dementia. I am grateful to have the opportunity to speak today as, in addition to representing a constituency in Oldham where, in 2010, 2,318 people were diagnosed with Alzheimer’s, the most common form of dementia, I have personal experience of being the daughter and carer of someone with Alzheimer’s. I would like to bring that personal experience to the debate.

In September last year, my mother died of Alzheimer’s. She was only 74. In 1992, she remarried and moved to the US, and it was there, 10 years later, that she was diagnosed with the disease.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health (Anna Soubry)]

Does the hon. Lady agree that those who have experienced these sorts of incidences first hand can bring to debates a remarkable amount of insight to, and understanding of, these conditions? Does she also agree that it is important for us all, especially Government, to listen to those experiences, so that we might be able to learn from them?

[Debbie Abrahams]

I am very grateful to the hon. Lady for her intervention. I totally agree.

My mother was 64 when she was diagnosed and was still working. She told me that she stood in the middle of the office where she worked and could not remember why she was there. Not only did she find it abhorrent to be diagnosed with this devastating degenerative disease, but the financial consequences of having to give up her job were a severe blow too.

To watch her decline was nothing short of heartbreaking. Two years after she was diagnosed, the penny dropped for me when we went to a restaurant and she was given a menu. As my hon. Friend the Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) said, it is so important to make sure that people with dementia still have as much control over their lives as possible. She looked at the menu, and kept on looking at it again and again. She did not understand what she had to do with the menu—one of the practical consequences of the disease. She became a different person—not a better or a worse person, just different. As much as I loved my old Mum, I loved my new Mum too. I will remember until the day I die the first time she did not recognise me, which was about four years after she was diagnosed. She was very distressed, because she knew that I was someone of importance to her, but she did not know her relationship to me. Needless to say, the pain I felt was—well, I cannot explain.

My mother went from being a brilliant, vivacious, caring woman—a woman who invented the term social justice before it entered the lexicon—to a woman who gradually lost her ability to communicate, feed or toilet herself. In the last year of her life, she became wheelchair-bound and in her final month completely bedridden. She was unable even to lift her head and the end came shortly after she lost her ability to swallow.

In many ways we were very lucky because my mother remained physically well for so long, but also because up until the last year of her life she seemed relatively content, smiling and laughing, particularly around animals and children, as she had always been. I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Bridgend that people with dementia understand far more and we have to find ways of communicating with them. My hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Walton (Steve Rotheram) also talked about different ways of engaging with people with dementia.

Unfortunately, the care arrangements in the final year of Mum’s life, and ultimately the circumstances around her death, can only be described as shameful. She was in the US at this stage. After much consideration, I have decided to talk about this now because dementia has such consequences for everybody in this country and across the world. Up until 2011, my stepfather, who is 81, had been Mum’s main carer, although he paid for a carer to help Mum get up in the morning in their New York home. I used to provide respite for him during my leave, but the physical and emotional toil and strain was taking its toll and he began looking for caring support.

That support was offered by an acquaintance of his who offered to provide care for my mum for an agreed fee. Over a few months, unbeknown to me or my family, the new carer moved into the house, got access to their finances, sold their home and drove them more than 800 miles away from my stepfather’s family in New York to South Carolina, where they knew nobody. Within a week of the move, my mum was admitted to hospital and we were told that she had days to live. When I arrived, I was shocked to see their circumstances: they had moved from a comfortable family home to what can only be described as a hovel, and the female carer had gained almost complete control over their lives. I alerted Adult Protective Services in South Carolina to my concerns for my mum’s and stepdad’s welfare on 24 August. After week’s of chasing it, including through the Governor’s office, I got a reply on 19 October saying that it deemed my father, whom it had never even met, to be competent and would not be taking it any further. Unfortunately, my mum had died by then.

My mum’s story is not unique. The stages in her decline and her and my family’s experiences are being replicated in this country and across the world. My story happened in the US and, based on my discussions with adult protection teams in this country, I am confident that the casual response from Adult Protective Services in South Carolina would not be reflected here, but there are still lessons to learn. We must ensure that the regime we set up around carers protects people with dementia from exploitation. I fear that, as has happened in other areas of the world where personal health budgets and individual social budgets have been introduced, some of the moves towards personal budgets here will lead to fraud and exploitation.

I could speak for hours about what I believe we need to do, but I would like to raise just a few points. First, as individuals, families and communities, we need to be more aware of the disease, as has already been mentioned. The odds are that most people will be affected by this disease. It might not be themselves or their family, but it might be their friends or neighbours, and we need to do more to protect ourselves against the disease. The Alzheimer’s Society is a wonderful resource, as we just heard, for information and support. We need to keep active and healthy, not smoke and so on—all the messages we know so well.

We need to do more on research. I fully support and recognise what the Government are doing in increasing research funding—it is such an important area—but the moneys being dedicated are paltry next to the scale of the problem. We need to address that. I was pleased to hear what my right hon. Friend the Member for Salford and Eccles (Hazel Blears) said about the Wellcome Trust funding, and I hope that we can pursue that more.

Finally, we need to do far more at health and care service levels. As I said, 2,318 people in Oldham were diagnosed with Alzheimer’s in 2010 and more than 800,000 across the country. By 2020, it is estimated that this number will have increased to 1 million. Most worryingly, however, as we have already heard, that is an underestimate and is probably half the actual scale of the disease. Apart from the human cost, £23 billion is spent treating and caring for Alzheimer’s patients every year. This will rise to £27 billion by 2018 and will continue to increase. There is already a care crisis in this country, with cuts to adult care services in the NHS, and this will only get worse, not better. Care services are already at breaking point. How will families cope with Alzheimer’s? It is a ticking time bomb. I urge the Government and the Opposition to work together to reach a cross-party consensus on how we fund and deliver a national care service, and that must include the Treasury teams. We cannot afford to kick this issue into the long grass any longer.

Legal Aid Reform

Debate between Debbie Abrahams and Anna Soubry

Thursday 3rd February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (Con)]

I declare an interest at the outset, because as you and others may know, Mr Speaker, until my election in May, I worked for 16 years as a criminal barrister in Nottingham and other places such as Leicester and Derby.

It is important to remember that there is a need to make cuts in public expenditure—that is common ground in the House. We have had many debates on where the blame for that lies, and we could continue them, but I suggest that that would not be helpful this afternoon. We are where we are. No Government Member welcomes having to make such cuts, but we have the largest deficit of any G20 country and, with considerable regret, the Government have been left in a position in which they have no alternative but to make severe cuts in public expenditure, including on legal aid.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

Does the hon. Lady accept the Citizens Advice report that says that the Government’s proposals will not only limit access to justice but increase public expenditure?

[Anna Soubry]

I do not know about the latter point. I have been in contact with the citizens advice bureau in Broxtowe, and I have made it very clear to Nottinghamshire county council that it is imperative to exercise great care in cutting the budget of that CAB. The Prime Minister and the Lord Chancellor have spoken about that and it is recognised that citizens advice bureaux do a magnificent job. Every Member of the House knows that, because their case loads would increase enormously without them. There is a danger that in these difficult times, they will have to deal with more cases, and it is imperative that they have the resources they need.