Business of the House

Debbie Abrahams Excerpts

Thursday 25th July 2024 Commons Chamber

[Lucy Powell]

I thank the hon. Member for that question. This Government are committed to UK steel production, particularly in Scunthorpe, Port Talbot and other parts of the UK. He will know that we have a big plan for the green transition of steel, and we are bringing forward the industrial strategy council measure and others that will support the long-term future of British steel in this country. The next questions for the Department for Business and Trade are shortly after we return from recess, and I am sure that he will want to raise the issue then.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

May I associate myself with the remarks of my constituency neighbour, my hon. Friend the Member for Rochdale (Paul Waugh), about the appalling incident at Manchester international airport yesterday?

I congratulate the Leader of the House and her team on their appointments. Could we have a debate in Government time specifically on the cross-Government mission to reduce the appalling health inequalities that we have inherited, which are particularly prevalent in my constituency?

[Lucy Powell]

I welcome my good friend and constituency neighbour to her place. I am sure that she will be a regular contributor to these and other questions— I think she topped the league in my region as the Member who contributed most in the last Parliament. She will be vocal on a number of issues. She is right; reducing health inequality is core to our health mission. The Secretary of State for Health and Social Care set out some of those priorities at Health questions earlier this week. We will have further debates on that matter in due course.

Code of Conduct and Modernisation Committee

Debbie Abrahams Excerpts

Thursday 25th July 2024 Commons Chamber

[Lucy Powell]

The hon. Gentleman makes a really important point. Part of what we are beginning today is about restoring respect for one another, both in Parliament and in politics. I have been really encouraged by the enthusiasm that new Members like the hon. Gentleman have for this agenda. I hope he will continue to be involved.

The Modernisation Committee will also look at reforms to make Parliament more effective, bringing recommendations and responding swiftly to the views of the House. It is intended to bring a more strategic lens to these matters and, where necessary, address the pace of change. This is not to cut across the important work of existing Committees, but to highlight interdependencies and facilitate closer working. I describe it as a clearing house, drawing on all the good work of other Committees.

The Government want to build consensus for any reforms, and bring the House together by consulting widely. The deliberations of the Committee will be transparent and published, so that the thinking that has informed any recommendations for change is made clear to Members—a very important aspect of the Committee. I intend to listen to colleagues, regardless of their party affiliation, as we take this work forward, drawing on the diverse range of views and experiences represented in this House.

I turn to the amendments on the Order Paper. I hope that I can provide reassurance to Members about some of their concerns. The existing Committee structures in this House—including the Procedure Committee, the Committee on Standards, the Committee of Privileges, the Administration Committee and of course the House of Commons Commission—will have a vital role to play in the work of the Modernisation Committee. Indeed, it will draw heavily on their work and their recommendations. However, the pace of change that we have witnessed in recent years demonstrates the value that a Modernisation Committee will have when it comes to enacting recommendations. The risk-based exclusion of Members, improvements to the Independent Complaints and Grievance Scheme and the introduction of proxy votes to cover serious long-term illness or injury are prime examples of the glacial pace at which we often move.

The purpose of the Modernisation Committee is not to duplicate the important work carried out by existing Select Committees, but rather to highlight and consider their recommendations in the round. As the Standards Committee noted in its May 2024 report, the standards landscape in Parliament brings together an array of actors and regulatory bodies whose arrangements are often considered in isolation from one another. My hope is that the Modernisation Committee will be able to bring a broader perspective to these issues, and will work closely with the existing parliamentary Committees whose reports and evidence will shape its work. The new Committee will have the ability to collect evidence, and for Chairs to guest on it where relevant. I will be sure to rely on the expertise and experience of all Members.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

Will my right hon. Friend explain the relationship between the Modernisation Committee and the ethics and integrity commission that is being set up?

[Lucy Powell]

I thank my hon. Friend, who has done much good work in this space over the years. The Government’s ethics and integrity commission will focus more on Government members, Ministers, civil servants and others, whereas the work of the Modernisation Committee will focus particularly on the House of Commons. There may be a relationship at times, but they will have a different remit and scope. I hope that answers my hon. Friend’s question satisfactorily.

As the proposed Chair of the Committee, I reassure the House that my door will always be open to Members and staff across the House. I see it more as a task and finish Committee—that was a good comment that the hon. Member for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain) made to me the other day—that will take a strategic look at recommendations from other bodies and Committees, but not duplicate their work.

I note amendment (a), tabled by the hon. Member for Aberdeen North (Kirsty Blackman), which is about the engagement of smaller parties and their role on the Modernisation Committee. I hope that I have gone some way towards providing reassurance on aspects of that issue. I want to be clear that I want Members across the House to be heard, but the Committee also needs to be an effective body that delivers change. If the Committee is to work swiftly and generate momentum behind proposals for reform, it needs to be of an appropriate size. If each party were represented, as the hon. Member’s amendment requires, the Committee would have to grow considerably. That would not be proportionate with other Committees of the House, which I do not think is reasonable.

Business of the House

Debbie Abrahams Excerpts

Thursday 9th May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

First, I reassure my hon. Friend that I am not about to defect to the Opposition. They would not be interested in me—I am too left-wing. However, as I do every week, I will make sure that the Secretary of State for Levelling Up has heard about the ongoing saga in my hon. Friend’s constituency and his concern about the performance of the council.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

I am sure the Leader of the House, as a former Minister for disabled people, is as concerned as I am that it is now two years since the Equality and Human Rights Commission issued a section 23 notice against the Government with regard to their discrimination against disabled people. That was followed by the report from the UN Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities investigating a second set of breaches of the convention by this Government, which was published a couple of weeks ago. Can we have a debate in Government time about why there has been this discrimination by the Government against disabled people and what the Government are going to do about it?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I will certainly make sure that both the Minister for Women and Equalities and the Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work at the Department for Work and Pensions have heard that the hon. Lady is keen for an update on this matter. I have to say that, in my experience, the criticism of this country by many organisations, particularly international ones including people from nations that provide very little support for disabled people, is quite wrong. I could point to many aspects of the work that has been done in many Departments to support disabled people in every walk of life. This is a matter that should concern everyone because most disability is acquired, whether from the built environment or in relation to work. We have enabled 1 million people with a disability to get into work and have the dignity of a pay packet because of our change of approach on welfare and support. There are many other examples and I think we have a good record over many years. However, there is always more to do and I will make sure that both Ministers have heard the hon. Lady.

Business of the House

Debbie Abrahams Excerpts

Thursday 22nd February 2024 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank my right hon. Friend for all the campaign work he is doing on this very important issue. It is an important matter not just for his constituents directly affected by it, because it has implications for our food security if large swathes of high-quality agricultural land are not being used to grow food and build this nation’s resilience. He will know that the next questions to the Secretary of State are on 14 March, but I will write this afternoon on my right hon. Friend’s behalf and encourage a meeting with a Minister and all colleagues affected by this issue.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

I have to say that I was ashamed to be a Member of Parliament last night. However, I understand from what the Leader of the House has said this morning that she agrees that we should observe the Nolan principles. I was going to ask for a debate on that matter, but given that the Chair of the Liaison Committee and others are calling for a debate on Gaza, could she confirm that there will be a debate on Gaza in Government time, which will allow all of us to vote?

Business of the House

Debbie Abrahams Excerpts

Thursday 18th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

I am sorry to hear about the situation of the hon. Gentleman’s constituent. He will know that the Home Office and the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office take those matters very seriously and that, where there are issues with foreign Governments, the Foreign Secretary and his Ministers will raise them directly in bilateral meetings. The Home Office, working often with local authorities, will put in place measures to protect people who have had such threats. We have sadly seen interference in some cases from a number of state actors from China and from Iran in particular, as well as the cases to which he refers.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

May I add my condolences to Tony Lloyd’s family? He was a dear friend and colleague, and he was particularly kind to me when I was first elected in a by-election, 13 years ago.

My constituent’s partner has been awaiting evacuation from Gaza for months now. Her partner has evidence that others in exactly the same circumstances as him are being prioritised over him. Although my office and I have been in almost daily contact with not only the Foreign Office—I thank Lord Ahmad for his support—but the Israeli and Egyptian embassies, I would be grateful if the Leader of the House could liaise with the Foreign Office and identify exactly when my constituent’s partner can be brought home.

[Penny Mordaunt]

I am sorry to hear about the situation with the hon. Lady’s constituent, and I thank my noble friend Lord Ahmad for the work he is doing. I know he is focused on the protection of British nationals, ensuring that people can be returned to the UK and offering them all assistance. I will certainly ensure that Ministers hear what the hon. Lady has said today. As with cases regarding hostages, I have helped facilitate some services being stepped up for Members of Parliament. I think I am perhaps not able to assist her in quite the way she wishes me to, but I will ensure that the Foreign Office has heard what she has said and, although I know that she is in contact with them already, I will raise her concerns with FCDO officials to see whether anything further can be done. I know she appreciates that these are very difficult circumstances.

Business of the House

Debbie Abrahams Excerpts

Thursday 7th September 2023 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on raising what he has identified as a very important issue. He is an experienced parliamentarian and will know how to apply for debates. I am sure that if he did apply for one, it would be extremely well attended. In raising this matter today, he has given insurance companies the opportunity to respond to this concern. If there are any public affairs officers from the major insurance firms listening to this debate, I would encourage them to take to social media this afternoon to clarify their policies on this area. I am sure that we would all applaud them if they stepped up and gave their policyholders an excellent service.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

The covid pandemic affected all of us, but the most devastatingly affected were the families who lost loved ones, and they are still being affected. Next Wednesday I will launch my new film, “The Unequal Pandemic”, which focuses on three families’ experience. It reveals that, instead of being the great leveller that the Government said that it would be, the pandemic exposed deep structural inequalities, affecting who and where was most impacted. I would love to see the Speaker of the House and all Members at the launch, but will the Leader of the House allow for a debate specifically on what we can do to ensure that the inequalities that affected the experience of the pandemic are addressed adequately?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank the hon. Lady for raising this matter and advertising this event. She is absolutely right, particularly as the covid inquiry looks at these matters, that the experiences and concerns of those who lost loved ones should be at the forefront. It was a terribly traumatic few years for everyone, with the isolation and the additional pressures that people faced. To lose, in some cases, multiple family members during such a time is incredibly hard to metabolise and bear. She will know how to apply for a debate, but if she sends the details to my office I shall look at ways I can support this.

Privilege: Conduct of Right Hon. Boris Johnson

Debbie Abrahams Excerpts

Monday 19th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

It is an absolute pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Wirral South (Alison McGovern). I speak in support of the Privileges Committee report and pay tribute to all Committee members, particularly the Chair, my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Camberwell and Peckham (Ms Harman), on the diligence and the evidence-based approach that they have taken in the final report that they produced. The findings are clear. As an evidence-based scientist, I see the golden thread of how they used that evidence going through the report. It is a very strong report in that regard. What is so disappointing, as we have discussed, is that it exposes the shameful behaviour of a Prime Minister of this country. We have talked about the impact that it is having across our country but it has international ramifications as well, which we have not discussed in detail.

I have no doubt that Boris Johnson deliberately misled the House of Commons, not just in relation to the parties that the report focuses on. While people in Oldham, Saddleworth and across the country sacrificed so much during the pandemic lockdowns, Mr Johnson and his team had parties. As they partied, they knew they were breaking the rules. As Prime Minister, he lied about it on the Floor of the House and to the Committee.

I also have evidence of how the former Prime Minister deliberately deceived the House in February 2021 in relation to the publication of covid contracts. The hon. Members for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas), and for Oxford West and Abingdon (Layla Moran) and I were involved in the High Court action, which showed what contracts had been published according to law and what had not. Boris Johnson said, “No, no. They have all been published,” but we had a High Court decision saying that they had not. That is the absolute gall of the man who was our Prime Minister. To go back to the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Wirral South, when I raised that issue in the House, I was not listened to. When I pointed to the High Court judgment, I was told that that was my view. I tried on a number of occasions, including on 20 April 2021.

Mr Johnson’s most recent antics are quite breathtaking in their selfishness. His denial is breathtaking and is the absolute polar opposite of what the Nolan principles—the standards in public life that we all agreed to abide by—demand of us. His pattern of behaviour, underpinned by an attitude that he is above the law, has tarnished the reputation of the whole House and all its parliamentarians. We are all tarred with the same brush. Our democracy as a whole suffers. Polling from the group Compassion in Politics shows that eight out of 10 people do not trust politicians. That is serious. It is the lowest level of trust we have ever had from the people we represent. How can we represent people if they do not trust us? The report is ultimately about honesty, another of the seven Nolan principles of public life. It should mark a sea change for honesty in politics, because in recent years we have seen the rise of politicians who believe they can mislead without consequences.

Earlier this year, I introduced the Elected Representatives (Code of Conduct) Bill, which proposed the establishment of an ethics commission to look at how to bring our political system into the 21st century. I disagree in some respects with my hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda (Sir Chris Bryant). I think we are past the point where we can say that we can govern ourselves. My Bill had a number of proposals to strengthen things and fill the gaps. The Bill looked to ensure that the adviser on ministerial standards was fully independent—of course, at the moment he is not—and able to commission his or her own inquiries, rather than being subject to the whims of political leaders acting in the interests of their own internal party dynamics. The content of the Privileges Committee report shows a truly egregious example of that, but it is far from the only one.

Ten days ago, I wrote to the Prime Minister asking him to explain the decision he took to ask the adviser on ministerial standards not to investigate allegations that the Home Secretary pressured civil servants into assisting her with a speeding fine she received. My letter asked the Prime Minister whether or not he spoke to Home Office officials and special advisers to ask if the Home Secretary’s version of events was accurate. It also asked him if he reviewed emails sent by Home Office civil servants to the Cabinet Office’s propriety and ethics team, in which they expressed concerns about what was being asked of them by the Home Secretary. It asked him if the independent adviser reviewed any correspondence or conducted any interviews on the matter. To date, I have not received a reply. I wait in anticipation to see if the Prime Minister will fulfil his promise to lead a Government with integrity “at every level”.

Members of Parliament: Risk-based Exclusion

Debbie Abrahams Excerpts

Monday 12th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Thangam Debbonaire]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that, but the idea is for this not to be done in a public manner. We probably will face criticism for this, but the Commission has gone to some lengths to try to protect the anonymity and confidentiality in respect of a person against whom allegations of a serious crime have been made. We have built into this process as many opportunities as we can, and some Members are not happy about those. The point is that we should not be deciding guilt, as that would be quite wrong; the separation of powers is an important principle to every one of us in this Chamber. However, we must address the confines of the fact that our workplace is not like any other. It is a workplace for staff here, as well as for our own staff and for each other, and we have a duty at least to try to work out how we mitigate the risk to them, while protecting the confidentiality of the person against whom allegations are being made.

I wish to come to a conclusion because I know that many right hon. and hon. Members want to contribute. While taking those interventions, I have covered a few parts of the speech I was going to make. I started out by talking about three values, and democratic representation is vital. We owe a lot to those on the Procedure Committee and other colleagues who developed the proxy vote system, as a result of which we have a way whereby a Member can be added to the list of proxy votes without saying why and can continue to represent their constituents. Every Member will know what some of the criticisms were of the proxy vote system when it was first introduced. No Member is forced to use it and they can also use the option of pairing, which some will prefer. It is an important principle of democracy that Members’ voters, the people they represent, can continue to be represented.

Other Members have asked about constituency activities. We as a House have no way of legislating to stop Members undertaking those. There may be some who have concerns about that. The police can make bail conditions but we do not have that power. We are not in a position to restrict the constituency activities.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech. I understand that there will be a review process. It is right that we are doing this, as public confidence in our system as a whole is at an all-time low and how we moderate such behaviour and the associated issues are important. To allay some of the fears that have been expressed, will she say what review system will be put in place to see how effectively or not this is working?

[Thangam Debbonaire]

I thank my hon. Friend for that question. In the past week, the Leader of the House and I have met several times to discuss how we might propose to the Commission what a review process might look like. At the moment, our commitment is that by the time we get to the motion—she will correct me if I am wrong—we will have a proposal to put to the House about how and when we will review. That is desperately important.

Members have raised with me their concerns, which I share, about the damaging impact of untrue allegations being made against someone. I completely share that anxiety, but I also share the anxiety that others, and sometimes the same Members, have raised with me about the damaging impact on victims of feeling as though nobody is taking them seriously. I know that there may well be, as there certainly are in other workplaces I have been involved with, victims who feel that because their complaint is not taken seriously, their career ends.

We talk a lot in this place about the possible damaging, career-ending impact on Members. I want to make sure that we do things in a proper and just way, but I also want to place on the record my concern about the damaging and career-ending impact on victims who feel that their complaint is not taken seriously. We cannot ignore them either. The hon. Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Nickie Aiken), who is no longer in her place, made the correct point that thousands of people work here and we should be an exemplar in how we treat them.

I want to come to the end of my speech, as I know many Members wish to speak. I know there are those—I have heard them already today and I have had private conversations with them—who are uneasy about the idea of any exclusion of MPs whatsoever. I understand those concerns, and my respect for democracy is too high for me to ignore them; we have to explore how they can work meaningfully in this process. But I also think that we are in danger of putting others at risk if we do not come up with a formal method of dealing with that which at the moment is dealt with merely by informal, hidden, not transparent and unaccountable means, by well-meaning people who simply do not have the routes to deal with what they are told about.

To those who feel that the proposal does not go far enough, let me say that I understand that view as well. When I worked with violent men, our aim was safety and that can come about through may different routes. In the system I worked in, one of those routes was exclusion, whose equivalent in non-parliamentary terms was imprisonment. That happens only where there is an end to a proper and just process, and we are not talking about there here. I worked occasionally with women but I worked mostly with men accused of violence, and I know which men I worked with changed the most. If we gave them an opportunity to engage with a constructive process and to think about whether or not there was behaviour that they themselves wanted to change, safety was more likely to be sustained. That did not always work, but I want a process that honours the experience that I and others have gained about how to do meaningful change-making work with people who have behaved on a scale from inappropriately to downright criminally.

There will be times when we have to exclude somebody. I hope it is not many, and it would be nice if it was never, but it is time we took responsibility for making sure that everyone who wears a parliamentary pass can come to work each day knowing not only that we have a complaints system, as we now do in the ICGS, but that, if they have reported an MP to the criminal justice system, there is a formal, thorough, risk-based way of dealing with it. We are not a workplace like any other; we are a representative democracy and we exist in a political world. It is not beyond us to come up with a system to balance those principles in a way that is just, that protects victims and that protects democracy.

Business of the House

Debbie Abrahams Excerpts

Thursday 15th December 2022 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

As I said in my opening remarks, we will be having a debate on Iran, but let me thank my hon. Friend for providing the opportunity, not just for me, but for the whole House, to say very clearly that, although the House may not be sitting over the Christmas period, all Members will have their eyes on what is happening to protesters and to those who are currently in detention. The world is watching and it will continue to do so, and we will continue to shine a spotlight on what is happening in Iran.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

Mr Speaker, may I start by wishing you and all the House staff a very happy Christmas? I also wish to thank you for holding the minute’s silence to commemorate the 80th anniversary of the notification of the holocaust to our predecessors—that was very moving.

We are seeing a flatlining in life expectancy. In my constituency and in other areas of the north, our life expectancy is reducing. We are also seeing an increase in health inequalities. Dementia is now the leading cause of death. As a former public health consultant and chair of a trust, I was proud of the work the previous Labour Government did to reduce those inequalities and to be the first to have a dementia strategy. Will the Leader of the House agree to have a debate in the new year on the health of our nation and, in particular, on how we are going to build back fairer, which I understand was a commitment of the previous Government earlier this year?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank the hon. Lady for raising a matter of concern to every Member in this House. Clearly, there is a massive catch-up job to be done, not just on the waiting lists that we are cracking through, but on ensuring that people are mentally well and dentally fit—all those things that they may have missed out on, particularly during the pandemic. I shall certainly make sure that the Health Secretary has heard her request.

Strengthening Standards in Public Life

Debbie Abrahams Excerpts

Wednesday 17th November 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I do not hold the Labour party responsible for the fact that six people, and one currently appealing, have been sentenced to jail terms or suspended jail terms as socialist Members. I do not hold that against the socialists because I understand that even well-intentioned parties with a high moral standard and an enormous amount of self-righteousness will occasionally have rotten apples within them.

We have seen in recent weeks growing and sincerely held concerns across the House about the outside interests of Members of Parliament, particularly where potential conflicts of interests may arise. Here, the Government are clear that the reputation of Parliament must come first—more than that, as my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister says, it is imperative that on a cross-party consensus we put beyond doubt the reputation of the House of Commons by having rules for MPs that are up-to-date, effective and appropriately rigorous so as to continue to command the confidence of the public, whom we are here to serve. That is why the Prime Minister has written to Mr Speaker to set out the Government’s advocacy of reforms to update the code of conduct that sets out the standards of behaviour for MPs as we carry out our work.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

The Leader of the House is absolutely right, this debate and this motion are about the integrity of not just this House and this place, but our political system as a whole. So should the Prime Minister have corrected the record in January when he incorrectly said that PPE contracts had been published when the High Court ruled that they had not?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The Government’s behaviour with PPE was the subject of the previous debate and was essential to ensure that, in very short order, a very large quantity was provided. What was done to provide the vaccine and sufficient quantities of PPE was absolutely right.