Oral Answers to Questions

David Mundell Excerpts

Wednesday 11th September 2013 Commons Chamber

[Jim McGovern (Dundee West) (Lab)]

5. What discussions he has had with Ministers of the Scottish Government on the use of zero-hours contracts in Scotland.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Scotland (David Mundell)]

There is no single legal definition of zero-hours contracts and it is not possible to get reliable estimates. The issue was discussed at the Scottish employability forum last week by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland, the Scottish Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Employment and Sustainable Growth and a range of Scottish stakeholders.

[Gregg McClymont]

Many employers in Scotland insist that employees on zero-hours contracts be available for work even if work is not guaranteed. The Labour party has pledged to outlaw this practice and the Scottish Affairs Committee, under the chairmanship of my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow South West (Mr Davidson), has initiated an inquiry. When will this Minister and this Government put themselves on the side of working people?

[David Mundell]

It is important that our work force remain flexible, but it is also important that they are treated fairly. Officials from the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills have undertaken work over the summer better to understand how the contract works in practice, with a view to taking action if widespread abuse is found.

[Jim McGovern]

In June, the Scottish Trades Union Congress and the Scottish Government published, following an analysis, a report saying that more than 250,000 people in Scotland are underemployed. Many of them are on zero-hours contracts and the overwhelming majority of them do not want to be. What are the Government doing to address this scandal? As an afterthought, perhaps the Minister could tell us how many people in his Department are on zero-hours contracts.

[David Mundell]

The hon. Gentleman will know that the Scotland Office does not directly employ any members of the Department, as I have already confirmed in response to a parliamentary question about zero-hours contracts. As I have just indicated to the hon. Member for Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East (Gregg McClymont), we take this issue seriously. That is why BIS officials have been reviewing the operation of the contracts, and I very much welcome the Scottish Affairs Committee inquiry, which will perhaps provide greater illumination on the specific situation in Scotland.

[Mike Crockart (Edinburgh West) (LD)]

Zero-hours contracts are undoubtedly misused and abused by many employers but, equally, I have spoken to many employees for whom the contracts fit their lifestyle well. Does my right hon. Friend agree, therefore, that reform is necessary, not abolition, and that nothing shows this better than the number of Labour councils using these contracts?

[David Mundell]

I do not know whether my hon. Friend is aware of the statement by Labour’s shadow Business Secretary, the hon. Member for Streatham (Mr Umunna), who said:

“We’re not actually advocating an entire ban…sometimes people quite like to use them.”

I think that that is something with which we can all agree.

[Margaret Curran (Glasgow East) (Lab)]

If I may, I would like to express my condolences and pay tribute to those who lost their lives in the terrible Super Puma crash that happened while the House was in recess.

Until recently, Kyle McLean from Airdrie worked in a sports store. Like thousands of people across Scotland, his zero-hours contract meant that he could not take on other work and some weeks he earned less than £20. What does the Minister plan to do about the exploitative use of zero-hours contracts?

[David Mundell]

The hon. Lady is right to highlight the Super Puma crash and pay tribute to those who were involved in it.

The hon. Lady has a blind spot when it comes to understanding what her own Government did. She seems to suggest that zero-hours contracts suddenly materialised recently, but they were in existence under the Labour Government, who took no steps to review or do anything about them. I explained in my previous answer that BIS officials are reviewing the contracts, because while we want the employment market to be flexible we also want it to be fair.

[Margaret Curran]

Perhaps if the Minister looked at Labour’s policies he would get some ideas. The truth is that while the Government have sold off workers’ rights and made it easier to fire rather than hire, they have no plan to address the circumstances of people such as Kyle. Will the Minister follow Labour’s lead and outlaw the use of exploitative zero-hours contracts? Will he also confirm that the Secretary of State for Scotland is on a zero-hours contract so that he can do the Tories’ dirty work in Scotland?

[David Mundell]

There is one person in this Chamber who is on a zero-hours contract: the right hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown). I will take no lessons from the hon. Lady, because Labour did nothing about zero-hours contracts. I have set out clearly that BIS officials are reviewing the matter, because our policy is to have a flexible work force and fair employment policies.

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

6. What assessment he has made of the potential effect on pensions of Scottish independence.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Scotland (David Mundell)]

The “Scotland analysis: Financial services and banking” paper considered private sector pensions. We will be examining state and public pensions in later papers in the series.

[Ian Murray]

The Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland highlighted that, on independence, cross-border defined benefit pension schemes would have to be fully funded, which would leave a deficit of some £230 billion. That was dismissed by the First Minister, who said that he would merely call for a derogation from the EU. Given that the Czech Republic has not only been refused that, but has been fined, what does the Minister think will happen to Scottish pension arrangements now and in the future?

[David Mundell]

Spending on state pensions and public sector pensions is driven by demographics and is set to rise. The UK Treasury and the Department for Work and Pensions absorb the risk of growth in demand and there would be more volatility in spending in an independent Scotland. Those are not my words, but the words of John Swinney. It is a pity that he said them in private, not in public.

[Mrs Eleanor Laing (Epping Forest) (Con)]

10. Does the Minister agree that the ability of the Scottish economy to support the pensions that the people of Scotland depend on will be greater and better if Scotland remains part of the United Kingdom?

[David Mundell]

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend, not least because the Scottish Government and the Scottish National party have set out no coherent plans for a sustainable pensions system in an independent Scotland.

[Dr Eilidh Whiteford (Banff and Buchan) (SNP)]

The Minister must think that people in Scotland are buttoned up the back. He knows as well as I do that in terms of both revenue and GDP, Scotland spends a lower percentage of its money on pensions than other parts of the UK. Does he accept that the lower life expectancy in Scotland and other demographic trends make it important that decisions on pensions are made in Scotland by Scotland for Scotland?

[David Mundell]

I know that the people of Scotland are not buttoned up the back. They understand that the Scottish Government and the SNP say one thing in private and another thing in public. In private, John Swinney has made it absolutely clear that the affordability of pensions would be a serious issue in an independent Scotland. That is a fact. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Far too many noisy private conversations are taking place in the Chamber. I am sure that they will now end so that we can hear Mary Macleod.