Spending Review 2020 and OBR Forecast

Debate between David Morris and Nigel Evans

Wednesday 25th November 2020 Commons Chamber

[David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Con) [V]]

I welcome the levelling-up fund. From the outset I have been championing the Eden Project North in Morecambe, which is coming shortly, so will the Chancellor meet me to discuss it, as it is exactly the kind of shovel- ready project that would level up not just Morecambe, but the whole of our region?

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Did the Chancellor get that?

Flooding: Ribble Valley

Debate between David Morris and Nigel Evans

Wednesday 18th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Evans]

I am more than happy to do that. In fact, I have made representations to Mark Hoban, who is in charge of the Flood Re scheme. I believe that we should extend that scheme to businesses. I have no doubt at all that the premiums for a lot of small and medium-sized enterprises that are prone to flooding or that have made claims will go through the roof. If we think it is a good idea to spread the risk for domestic premises, as we have done through the Flood Re scheme, which is very good indeed, I cannot see any good reason not to extend that to businesses as well. I will talk a bit later about one of my businesses, which has been hit in more ways than one. I am delighted to see you now in the Chair, Mr Deputy Speaker, because I know that your constituency also experienced bad flooding. Indeed, the flooding affected a number of areas, including that of my hon. Friend the Member for South Ribble (Seema Kennedy), who is also in the Chamber.

I must praise the brilliant emergency services for all the work that they did. In the late hours of Christmas night and early hours of Boxing day, members of the Army were knocking on doors. They already knew what was going to happen, so they were alerting people so that they could either get out and secure their premises, or get their possessions upstairs if they could. They were working during the time when other people were celebrating with their families, so I have absolute praise for them for everything they did, as well as for the early flood warning system, which clearly was working.

I then went down into Whalley, which had been featured on the television for most of that day. A lot of the water had subsided by that time—it was several hours on—but my goodness me, the damage that had been done during those hours was absolutely phenomenal. It was not just the main road that was affected, but several streets back on both sides. I chatted to Norman Atty, the landlord of the Dog Inn, who was able to tell me all the things that had happened that day. I then went from Whalley through Grindleton towards another village way on the other side of the constituency, but I had to turn my car around when I got there because I could not distinguish the road from the river. The water was so high that I thought that if I went any further, I would have been adding to the problems, because my car would be stuck—it is not a 4x4. I therefore reversed back and went home.

I got up the next morning and went back into Whalley, where the salvage operation had begun. My goodness me! It was heart-warming beyond belief to see the volunteers who had given up their Christmas to help their neighbours. I also heard a story about a group of four men who were travelling up to Scotland for Hogmanay—they were going pretty early by the sound of it—and heard what had happened in Whalley. They drove off the M6 and turned up in the village. They picked a house at random and helped the people there to clear their possessions out on to the street and into skips. They then got back into their car and continued their holiday. What fantastic people!

Other people had had the good sense to get money and drive into the Ribble valley and hand it out to families. Some people would have been without money, and they would have lost all their food. Perhaps they lived alone, or perhaps they had spent all their money at Christmas and had no access to money. Those people giving out money provided a lifeline. They did not need to do it, but they did. People came from all over the area to help. For example, charities in Blackburn gave assistance. It was a colossal operation to help people to get all their food and possessions out of their kitchens and living rooms. I also pay tribute to the skip operators who managed to get skips in on a regular basis, and to the police, who managed to set up a one-way system through the village. I have been talking about all the great things that people did to help, but now and again we had “flood tourists”, who decided to come in just to have a look. They thought it was rather clever to drive through the water, which resulted in water splashing into businesses that had already suffered greatly. Those people were really thoughtless and careless.

I remember talking to one chap, Andrew Ronnan, who has done tremendous work as a volunteer. He told me, “I don’t know what I was expecting to do on the day after Boxing day, but it wasn’t manhandling a piano into a skip.” That was what he ended up doing. The volunteers were absolutely superb. They were led by Gillian Darbyshire, the president of the Whalley and District Lions club, and she was joined by some of her friends, including Kellie Hughes, who runs the hairdresser’s shop. Her shop was badly hit—it is still being repaired—but her resilience has been absolutely superb. Anyway, she did not cut hair for a few days. She went straight across to the village hall, which was requisitioned, where people turned up to give electrical goods, blankets and food. Hot coffee and food were served there. It was quite amazing. Electricians gave up their time to come in and test all the electrical goods to make sure that no faulty items were handed out. Other volunteers included Mags Twist and Katie Blezard—I am afraid that I am going to forget some of the people—and even the Dog Inn was giving out coffee and sandwiches to the volunteers who were coming in to help.

Another electrician was going around people’s houses and helping. Of course, people from the electricity board also came in to switch people off and ensure that everything was safe before getting them switched back on. One of the volunteers had training in mental health issues, which was useful because some people were tipped over the edge by the flood. One can understand why when they were seeing their houses being destroyed on Boxing day. This person was able to talk a man out of his bedroom and get him downstairs so that he could finally get assistance. We need to pay some attention in that area when we think about what actions to take after future floods. I also pay tribute to Marshal Scott, the chief executive of Ribble Valley Borough Council, who was on the scene from Boxing day night onwards. The council moved many officers from the county offices in Clitheroe into Whalley and operated from the village hall. Marshal Scott was there every day, giving assistance to people who badly needed it.

Part of the problem was that some businesses and homes had been hit just a week before, when a culvert became blocked and water rushed down. Funnily enough, Andrew Ronnan had already called some locals together to see what they could do, because they realised that there would be real problems if the river burst its banks. Well, we had real problems, but they brought the community together.

One area that was badly damaged included the houses off Calder Vale. The road there is unadopted, so it was already rough, but that road now has a proper surface thanks to Gillian Darbyshire and the Whalley and District Lions club, which helped to raise more than £100,000, which was matched with donations from the Freemasons and others. In fact, it is now one of the best roads in the Ribble valley—it is absolutely superb. I could not believe it when I went down there the other day. I thought, “Wow. Look at that. That’s what happens when a community works together,” so I pay tribute to Gillian for leading the volunteers.

One chap called Allan Elliott, whom I went to see just the other day, has his house at the back of Calder Vale. One third of his garden was washed away, his car was a complete write-off and, of course, the house was badly damaged. One would have hoped that the Environment Agency would have looked at the damage and given a bit more assistance than it did, but he has had to spend thousands of pounds of his own money to shore up the garden to ensure that it will be resilient against any further rises in river flow.

[David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend for securing a debate on a topic that is important in our area of Lancashire. Following the December floods, Lancashire County Council’s delay in applying for funding for future flood defences until at least April meant that it missed out on Budget funding in 2016. Does he agree that that was a little short-sighted?

[Mr Evans]

I hope that many lessons will be learned. Any funding that is made available ought to be claimed—I remember the big argument about claiming European flood money, but we all pay into that, so we are only getting our own money back—but it took ages before we did that, which was a huge mistake. We should have known about it from the very beginning. I was told about how complicated it was to claim the money, so that must be sorted out. When one is paying into an insurance fund, claiming our own money back should not involve so much officer time and the filling in of so many pages. Many lessons need to be learned by the council, and by government more generally, to avoid adding to a tragedy through action or inaction.

I also want to praise the refuse collectors. One would not expect to see them the day after Boxing day. There are few sadder pictures in my mind than seeing refuse people backing up into a street on the day after Boxing day and loading Christmas trees into the back of their vehicle because people were clearing their whole houses. It was a very sad picture, never mind that those people were already under stress. There was one lady whose husband was dying, and in addition to all her problems she was having to clear out her house. Some people are still not back in their home a year on. Big questions have to be asked about the resilience of some properties. The Minister has produced her own report on the flooding, and I hope a lot will be learned from it.

I also praise councillors Terry Hill, Joyce Holgate, Albert Atkinson, Ged Mirfin and others. Councillors came from all over the area. Even if their areas were not flooded, they came to give assistance. I also praise Sir James Bevan and the then Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss), who turned up the day after Boxing day—I could not believe it, but there they were, walking through the village in wellington boots. I was able to show them some of the damage, and Sir James looked into the River Calder and could see the damage for himself. A lot of the damage is still there. One would have thought that one of the farmhouses over at the other end would not have been touched, but it was way underwater.

Some insurance companies were prompt, and others were not—their answerphones were switched on and saying, “We are on holiday. Please get in touch on 28 or 29 December.” When such colossal flooding is affecting so many thousands of people, one would have thought that all the insurance companies would be there to help.

Andrew Ronnan created the Whalley and Billington flood action group by drawing on the expertise that can be found in any large village and its surrounding areas, including civil engineers and people with knowledge of flood prevention. The group has regular meetings in order to liaise with the lead flood authority—Lancashire County Council—Ribble Valley Borough Council and the Environment Agency on the long-term plan. We have to do that, because these once-in-a-lifetime events are now happening quite regularly. Action must be taken against anything preventable that can lead to the misery I saw that day. Some of that action relates to the river, and other action relates to the housing that is being built, particularly in Whalley, on a rather large scale.

It might be useful if I talk about that housing. One section, Lawson Rise, is being developed in part by Redrow. There should be drainage ponds in the scheme to allow for water attenuation. Well, Redrow has been merrily building the houses, but the ponds simply have not happened. Redrow itself said that the ponds needed to happen, and they have not happened. I understand that there may be problems with the design and with where the ponds should go, but the reality is that Redrow is now in breach of the conditions set by the local authority. The people at Redrow still think it is okay to build the houses, sell them and get people moving in. Well, it is not. They have a responsibility to the people who are going to live on that estate and to the people who may be affected by the building of those houses and other houses that will be built on the same plot. It is their responsibility to ensure that all of the area is properly drained and that the water that runs off is retained. How dare they not take the action that they should at this moment in time? How dare they think it is okay to carry on building those houses without putting in the proper attenuation?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Evans]

I thank my hon. Friend for his contribution. I think these situations are akin to mental torture; once someone has gone through this sort of flooding misery, all of a sudden they have one eye on the computer to see whether there is a flood warning coming up—they have had a few of those since 26 December 2015; indeed, they have had water coming through King Street. We must recognise the impact on people’s lives once their properties have been soiled in that way; if it has happened once, it can happen again, unless something is done about it. That is basically where we are now. Once these things have happened—the flooding happened on a wide scale, as you know, Mr Deputy Speaker—we must see what action needs to be taken.

The Environment Agency is talking about spending £2.3 billion over the next six years on a lot of the major works that need to be done, but who knows whether that money will be sufficient? We are talking about spending £3.5 billion on this place, so I suppose that puts it into a bit of context. We need to ensure that the right sort of money is put in place to help to alleviate the problem.

Companies such as Network Rail are doing a great deal of work in Whalley. It is working on the aqueduct because of the water that flowed from it. It is spending a lot of money in an area that was badly flooded—I saw it for myself the other day—so I pay tribute to it for that work. Companies such as AXA Insurance are spending a lot of money on resilience measures, because they have worked out that it is in their interests. It means that when people sadly do get flooded, the costs will be much smaller.

People can take a lot of sensible measures if they have the wherewithal to do so. I remember going into one house in Ribchester that had been flooded a bit before. I walked on the lady’s sodden carpet, and she said, “Last time this happened, Nigel, I asked the insurance company whether we could have flagging instead of carpet, but they said, ‘Oh no, like for like, madam’.” The insurers would not move, but they moved this time. They have now got the message. Hopefully it will never flood again, but if it does, the flagging means that at least something can be done about it more easily.

I know that other Members want to contribute, so I shall go quickly through the things that ought to be done for future resilience. The Environment Agency is looking at proposals for Whalley, and particularly at what action can be taken regarding the Calder. I am told that the study will take about six months, and that the agency will then put in a bid to the Government, perhaps towards autumn 2017. I hope it can bring forward that report as quickly as possible, because of the mental torture that my hon. Friend the Member for Witney (Robert Courts) mentioned. As long as people cannot see anything substantial being done, they think it can happen again, and of course it can, so I hope that the Environment Agency will look into that and other matters to see what can be done. It will be working closely with the local flood action group—Andrew Ronnan and his friends—along with the lead flood authority and local authorities.

As well as the problems associated with the River Calder, there are problems with surface water after heavy rain. A week before 26 December 2015, Whalley had been damaged because of blocked culverts, and there has been water running through since. It should not be beyond the wit of the local authority to look at those culverts and make absolutely certain that they are not blocked. There are now sensors that can enable it to do that. Lancashire County Council should pull its finger out, have a look at the areas that are prone to flooding and get it sorted.

The drains are also a problem. Kellie from the hairdressers was out cleaning the drains herself, post-26 December. More floods were expected, and she saw that some of the drains were blocked. There are simple things that can be done, and I hope that they will be done.

As for planning, local authorities ought to be able to say quite simply that there should be no housing on a flood plain. That should be sufficient. When companies go to appeal, as they do, and use their expensive lawyers to dance rings around local authorities that are rather strapped for cash, it should be sufficient for the local authorities to say, “No, it is a flood plain”. Even with attenuation, if houses are built on a flood plain, huge amounts of water may still be retained by the fields, as in the example I referred to. Builders must take responsibility for complying with conditions that are imposed on them.

I pay tribute to the Woodland Trust, which is planting trees all over the place. We do not pay enough regard to the usefulness of trees, particularly in preventing soil erosion, which can easily happen. The trust has planted thousands of trees in our area, and we must do more of that.

Insurance resilience measures must come in as well. The early payment of insurance money is important to people so that they can get on with the job. We must also look at this matter of having to get three quotes. Some insurance companies insist on it, but they are lucky to get one quote. Our area was blighted by flooding on Boxing day; it is not hard to imagine how difficult it was to get even one quote. Some companies are just not interested in providing a quote, so different measures must be put in place to cover reasonable costs, so that people can just get on with the job.

One person came to see me last week, one year on from the flooding. He had put in a £110,000 claim—it was part business, part hereditament. He had used a broker, which had insured with one company. The company then part-insured with another company, which went bust. The man received £35,000 of his claim. He was going to get another £20,000 before the other company went bust. He does not know when he will get paid, even under the financial compensation rules, which, when they kick in, pay out 90%. I have to say: 90% of what? Things must be made easier. When a person goes to an insurance company, the responsibility must lie there. They should not have to chase around the houses, worried witless that they will not get the proper compensation that they need. They will already lose some of it, simply because of this offsetting of the bet, as I call it—or the offsetting of the risk. The person paying the premium, which in this case is just under £5,000 a year, should not have to suffer.

The emergency services learned a lot that day, as they had to institute a one-way system. Such best practice needs to be spread around the country, because what has happened in the Ribble valley will, sadly, happen in other areas in the future. Spreading best practice can be done. Whalley and Billington Flood Action Group has done its own resilience programme, telling people of the simple things that they can do, including providing phone numbers that they can use, when flooding happens. Those sorts of things are absolutely superb, and I do hope that local authorities can learn from one another about the actions that they need to take, including providing advice to people now. We are in the winter now, and, sadly, some villages may well get flooded between now and summer.

[David Morris]

I thank my hon. Friend for allowing me to intervene. As I have explained, we had floods in our area. The local hospital ran on emergency generators, but, apparently, from what I can gather, a state of emergency can be declared only if the Environment Agency has two separate sources verifying the state of emergency. In this instance, the Army had to come in to help in the end. Does he think that it should be only one separate source that contacts the Environment Agency so that measures can be enacted and things do not get so bad that the Army has to be called in to rescue patients who need electricity for dialysis and other life-saving treatments?

[Mr Evans]

Of course common sense should kick in. Once common sense kicks in, people understand that there is an emergency or a crisis. Why add to the problems by imposing unnecessary bureaucracy and rules? I do hope that lessons can be learned from that as well.

Proper planning in flood areas is essential. For instance, there were a lot of sandbags under lock and key in local authority depots. People could not get access to them until, eventually, calls went through to the county council saying, “Open the depot”. Eventually the sandbags were released. It should not be beyond the wit of planning to ensure that when these sandbags are there—irrespective of the fact that they might have been set aside for somewhere else at another time—they are released immediately to the local community so that further damage can be prevented.

Whalley is what is known as a notspot: I had to go into Benedicts delicatessen to latch on to wi-fi and access certain emails. I had to use the pub phone at The Dog Inn because my phone simply would not work. A lot more attention needs to be put into telecommunications in areas of high susceptibility to flooding; it might cost a bit more, but that needs to be done so that people can use their mobile telephony in an emergency, particularly if flooding has wiped out some of the landlines. Let us be fair: a lot of people do not have landlines anymore.

Earlier, I mentioned the drainage on the main road that prevented me from getting to the area that I needed to get to. If an area floods certain roads from time to time, the floods authorities need to put in extra drainage so that people can get where they need to.

I will never forget 26 December 2015 for as long as I live. It taught me a lot of things—and most of them were good, thank goodness. On new year’s eve that year, I had expected to be in sunnier climes, but I was not. I stood in Whalley’s square with all the local residents as new year rang in. We all linked hands and sang “Auld Lang Syne” together. The community spirit was alive and well and still is in that particular community. I could give a list of worthy people to get gongs when they are handed out, but from what I can remember none of them has got one. That is sad. Recognition ought to be given in communities up and down the country when people go the extra mile—they do not need to—in helping people in their own community because it is the right thing to do.

Twelve months on, and the Minister is listening carefully to what I have had to say. I hope she will give us good news today about the action that the Environment Agency and all the other agencies working together can take to ensure that the misery and torture that so many have suffered in the past because of flooding will be a thing of the past.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Morris and Nigel Evans

Monday 13th July 2015 Commons Chamber

[David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Con)]

4. What progress he has made on recruitment to the reserve forces.

[Mr Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley) (Con)]

15. What steps he is taking to ensure that reserve forces are at full strength.

Individual Voter Registration

Debate between David Morris and Nigel Evans

Monday 16th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Siobhain McDonagh]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way? Presumably he has contacted the police about that.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order.

[David Morris]

This has led to an unknown number of people listing fictitious residents at their properties and voting by post on their behalf. The vital failsafe in our system—namely, going to the ballot box in person—has been removed. This means we need a new failsafe, and I think that that is agreed on both sides of the House. There are various ways we can do this and I know the last Government saw ID cards as the answer. I do not.

I support fully the proposal to have individual voter registration. It is simple, cheap to administer—unlike ID cards—and fits in with the existing system, because it works on the same principle. Individual voter registration requires very few changes to our system, and we know from Northern Ireland that it works. But in today’s debate, some hon. Members have got two different issues muddled up. One is the issue of fraud that IER seeks to address, and the other is how we encourage more people to go to the ballot box. Making fraud easier will undoubtedly boost turnout, but it will not encourage more real people to vote. People do not bother to put themselves on the electoral register because they do not feel engaged, and do not want to vote. Similarly, there are millions of people on the register who do not want to vote. We need to make those people feel that their votes count.

It is not surprising that people cannot be bothered when 70% of our laws are edicts from an unelected Government in Brussels. People feel as if they cannot make a difference whichever way they vote, and that is the issue that we need to address. I really believe that repatriation of powers from Brussels, devolving more decisions to local councils and electing more police commissioners will help to engage people in the democratic process, but this has nothing to do with individual voter registration.

Individual voter registration is about reducing fraud and building confidence in the system. Today, once again, we see that electoral fraud and confidence in the system seem to be an entirely secondary considerations. They must be our central considerations, not least because people will have less confidence in the system if they feel they will be outvoted by electoral fraudsters. How many people will bother trudging to the ballot box when they rightly or wrongly believe that their views will be overridden by the fraudsters?

Maintaining the status quo will continue to undermine our system, so we do need to encourage more people to the ballot box, but the way to do this is with greater democracy. We need to stop electoral fraud, and the way to do this is to make people register individually.

Summer Adjournment

Debate between David Morris and Nigel Evans

Tuesday 27th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Con)]

It has been a very interesting three months for a new Member of Parliament, watching with fascination the whole process of governance at this level. I have sat through and voted on very many Bills and pieces of legislation over the past few months. We have all been working hard across these Benches on our respective issues. I would like to outline what has been going on in my constituency in relation to the coalition policies that affect it, and how, in the past three months, things have been moving in a positive direction.

Sunderland Point in my constituency—to describe it as beautiful is an understatement—is a sliver of land that can be reached at low tide. Being in the area is like stepping back in time to the 1700s; it has never changed. Most of the buildings are grade II listed. The previous Government, in their wisdom, told the Environment Agency to take away the historical context of protecting the shoreline management, but I am happy to report that the area has had a partial reprieve because the Environment Agency has assisted with the inshore “Hold back the line” scheme to allow the tide to come in. That is well short of what I would like to see—world heritage status for Sunderland Point—but it is a step in the right direction. Once such areas are lost to the elements, we will never get them back. This does not only apply to my constituency—it could be said of areas all around the country.

Moving up the coast to Heysham, I have heard a few of the gibes in this House and seen the internet blogging that says, “David Morris glows in the dark because he is pro-nuclear.” The truth is, however, that the nuclear power station is the largest employer in Heysham, and I am unashamedly pro-nuclear. Some Members disagree with me, but I still find them absolutely delightful. That is what makes us great. This is our debating Chamber; it is why we are here. I would like to see a third project being built at the nuclear power station in Heysham, and I would like more nuclear power stations to be built all across the country. I am very concerned, like most Members, that the lights will go out in 10 years’ time. Although I posed a bit of an awkward question to the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change this afternoon, I agreed with 95% of his statement. I disagree with him on the nuclear issue, but we are here to fight the corner of our constituents and of what we believe is right.

The hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds) talked about the building of a bypass, and I have a similar problem. Such problems arise up and down the country. In my case, plans for the road in question have been in formulation for the past 60 years. Its building was rubber-stamped by the previous Secretary of State, and we even appointed a developer, but of course there is no money in the kitty so it has to stop.

I have to press the issue, and not just I but my hon. Friend the Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood (Eric Ollerenshaw) is working hard on it. In our area of Lancashire, Heysham port is a key strategic route out to Northern Ireland and the rest of Europe. A shipping company recently built two special ships that could sail in and out of the port, which were needed because of the depth and dredge of the harbour. They cost about £70 million. I am sure that all Members would agree that if a building were constructed in their constituency for £70 million, it would be headline news. However, we cannot get the traffic off the M6 to Heysham port quick enough, and there are problems with transport in Lancaster. We are all trying to get green transportation initiatives working, with the jobs that they will create. We all implore the Secretary of State to put roads in our areas at the top of the list, and I do so because the road in question would be a key strategic route to the rest of the country.

On a nicer note, Carnforth station, which was the scene of the movie “Brief Encounter”—I am sure a lot of Members have seen that David Lean classic—was rebuilt many years ago. The catalyst was a chap called Peter Yates, who was been working with me to try to see through his dream. The rebuilding was successfully completed, and I will give the visitors’ centre a plug. It is excellent, and the station has been transformed and restored into the scene of “Brief Encounter”. People from all over the world go there to propose at the table where the character got grit in her eye, and it is something to see. We have been working hard over the past three years to get Virgin Trains to stop and take on passengers in Carnforth. It has agreed to that in principle, which will open up tourism in the area and get cars off the road and promote green tourism.

On green issues, I am not against wind farms, despite what a lot of the blogs say. I just have a vision of them, like Martians across the landscape, in areas of outstanding natural beauty. I have the Lake district to my north and the trough of Bowland to my south, and in the middle is the Lune valley, or Lunesdale. It has not been categorised as an area of outstanding natural beauty, even though it is a beautiful area. Thankfully, I can report that Natural England is looking into stretching the AONB up to the borders of the Lake district, which would in effect negate the possibility of wind farm building there. I am absolutely certain that that would delight some of the area’s residents, but it would also delight me personally because it is a beautiful area and I believe it should be kept for future generations. I do promote wind farms, but I will always say that they should be out to sea.

On a final note on matters that I wish to push forward, a school in my constituency closed about 12 months ago and the building is in mothballs. After all the controversy in our education debates about schools being regenerated and rebuilt, we have a school in the Lune valley that could be reinvigorated under the free schools programme and used as a school once more.

On a personal note, I have thoroughly enjoyed my first three months in the House and have met some very interesting colleagues on both sides of it—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. On that point, I think we should move on.