European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between David Jones and Baroness Chapman of Darlington

Committee: 4th sitting: House of Commons
Monday 4th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Jenny Chapman]

I have already given way quite a lot. If the hon. and learned Lady does not mind, I am going to crack on now. She will have a chance to make her own speech, and I look forward to listening to it.

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

rose—

[Jenny Chapman]

I will give way one last time, to the former Minister.

[Mr Jones]

Pursuing the same point, does the hon. Lady not accept that new clause 64(3), having provided that there should be no new frameworks created without the agreement of the devolved Administrations, would be a recipe for chaos, on the basis that if there were no such agreement, it would be impossible to create the frameworks that she seems to acknowledge as so desirable?

[Jenny Chapman]

The Joint Ministerial Committee said that it wanted frameworks to be created in this way, I think at the time when the right hon. Gentleman was a Minister, so I really do not understand what his objection is today.

We need look no further than Wales to learn of the practical benefits of devolution. It is right that Cardiff should decide the best way to support farmers in Wales, within an agreed framework but according to their needs and priorities. Jobs Growth Wales has so far supported the employment of 17,000 young people using European funding. That decision would not have been possible if the arrangements proposed by the Government had been in place at the time. When I was first elected, the Tories and the Lib Dems scrapped the almost identical future jobs fund in 2010. Such decisions were devolved for good reason, and we will support the devolved Administrations in keeping them. Amendments 42 and 337, alongside new clause 64, would allow the Government until the end of the transitional arrangements to create UK frameworks.

I want to make it clear to the Minister that in tabling these new clauses and amendments, Labour is attempting to assist the Government by enabling the devolved Administrations to be engaged in decisions that have a direct impact on their people. If the Government accept our criticisms and proposed improvements, Ministers will find that they have a less turbulent time in the months ahead. Do the Government really think that it is wise to pass a Bill to which the devolved Administrations are so hostile? Ministers need to focus on negotiating the best possible deal for all the people of the UK, not on embroiling themselves in constitutional rows with Edinburgh and Cardiff.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Baroness Chapman of Darlington

Thursday 27th April 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

My right hon. Friend has set out the Government’s position admirably.

[Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

Visiting the north-east is always a good thing to do, and we are very happy to have the Minister, but he does need to listen while he is there. The Engineering Employers Federation has warned that walking away with no deal would condemn north-east manufacturing to

“a painful and costly Brexit.”

The EEF wants the Government, instead of posturing, to focus on obtaining full World Trade Organisation membership, a clear position on customs and a sensible transition period. Why are the Government not listening to the needs of manufacturers in the north?

[Mr Jones]

On the contrary, we deal regularly with manufacturing industry. Indeed, I recently had a meeting with the EEF that was very successful. The fact of the matter is that we are intending to seek the best possible free trade agreement with the continuing European Union. Our position will be, however, unlike that of Labour, that no deal is better than a bad deal. I find it extraordinary that the Opposition seem to think it sensible to go to the negotiating chamber expecting to have no deal.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Baroness Chapman of Darlington

Thursday 1st December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will be pleased when article 50 is triggered before the end of March. On the issue of local government in the north, all I can say is that there is huge enthusiasm in northern local authorities for directly elected Mayors.

[Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

We could be a bit more positive if the Government showed us a plan that we could be positive about. I assume the Minister misspoke when he said that the regions are “a European construct”. I can assure him that that is not the case where I come from in the north-east. They are very much not a European construct, but something about which we are intensely proud. For the Government to think that they can negotiate without involving regional businesses, civic leaders, airports and our universities really takes a special kind of narcissism. If there is going to be so much money flowing post-Brexit, why is it that the Government are refusing to guarantee every penny of our regional funding now?

[Mr Jones]

The hon. Lady is entirely right: it is necessary to consult businesses, universities, civic leaders and all parts of civil society. Indeed, that is precisely what we are doing. The Department is engaging with representatives of over 50 sectors across the economy. This is important work, and it is much better to get a proper, reasonable Brexit than the hasty sort of Brexit that she and her colleagues seem to be advocating.

Exiting the EU and Transport

Debate between David Jones and Baroness Chapman of Darlington

Wednesday 23rd November 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Department for Exiting the European Union (Mr David Jones)]

This has been an excellent debate and I should like to express my personal thanks to all right hon. and hon. Members who have contributed to it. It is clear that everyone realises the centrality of transport to our economy, and it is therefore entirely right that the issue should be debated at length and in detail today. This has been the second in a series of debates on important issues arising in the context of the negotiations to leave the European Union that were promised by the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union. It will help to inform our consideration of these important issues as we prepare for the negotiations.

[Jenny Chapman]

If these debates are so valuable and informative, perhaps the Minister could give the House an example of how his considerations will have been moved on by what he has heard today.

[Mr Jones]

The hon. Lady will find that out as I proceed with my response. She has to understand that at the moment we are engaged in a process of consultation with not only colleagues here in Parliament but representatives of industry and the wider civil society. Frankly, anyone sensible would expect the Government to be engaging in this sort of consultation and I make no apologies for doing so.

As the Secretary of State for Transport made clear, the Government fully recognise the central role that transport will play. Our transport links with Europe—and, indeed, the rest of the world—are crucial to this nation’s prosperity, and as we develop a new relationship with the EU we are determined to maintain efficient networks that build on the excellent connectivity that we already have around the world. This debate has certainly highlighted some of the challenges that this country faces in the process of the negotiations, but it has also highlighted opportunities. As I have said, this has been an important exercise in helping to inform our position.

I want to touch on some of the important issues that have been raised. My hon. Friend made a point about the port services regulation. As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State pointed out, the Commission’s proposal in relation to the regulation was clearly aimed at the continental subsidised public sector landlord model and did not sit at all well with the United Kingdom’s thoroughly commercial, diverse and predominantly private sector model. In effect, the United Kingdom’s ports stood to be penalised for having led the way in liberalisation since the 1980s. Our experience shows that competition between ports drives efficiency and investment.

We have engaged successfully with the European institutions to prevent our being penalised in that way, and the near-final text of the regulation is considerably less onerous that what was first proposed. As my hon. Friend the Member for Stone said, this is a good example of how Brexit will enable us to regain control over issues that are important to the UK economy. We must also remember that we will be promoting the great repeal Bill. When enacted, it will absorb the entire corpus of EU law into the body of British law, which will enable us to review that law and repeal or amend it as appropriate. I imagine that he will regard this particular regulation as being ripe for repeal.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Jones]

I think the answer to that is that it depends on how quickly we complete our withdrawal from the EU and on what this Parliament decides to do. I have no doubt that the hon. Gentleman will be a strong advocate for its non-acceptance of that directive.

The hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Alan Brown) made a contribution relating, inter alia, to the spaceport that he hopes will be located at Prestwick. I had ambitions for north Wales, but I am sure we will both be happy wherever it is located. He also raised the issues of road freight and customs checks, both of which are certainly being taken into account by my Department and by the Department for Transport in the context of our EU exit negotiations.

The hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent South (Robert Flello) raised the issue of the importance of logistics. I understand that he is the chairman of the all-party group on freight transport, and he has raised a number of these issues in round-table meetings that have been arranged by the Minister of State, Department for Transport, my right hon. Friend the Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Mr Hayes), who has undertaken to maintain that dialogue.

Finally, we heard a contribution from the hon. Member for North East Fife (Stephen Gethins), who spoke about the Scottish referendum.

This has been an important and valuable debate. As I say, it has helped to inform the consideration of my Department and the DFT, and we will continue to hold similar engagements both within this Parliament and with stakeholders from outside the EU. [Interruption.] I make no apologies—I hear the catcalls from Labour Front Benchers—for the fact that this Government are giving proper consideration to the process of withdrawal from the EU. I believe that this Government—

[Jenny Chapman]

rose—

[Mr Jones]

No, I will not give way. Forgive me; I am near the end of my time.

[Jenny Chapman]

There is loads of time.

[Mr Jones]

No, nevertheless. Today’s announcements have demonstrated the commitment of this Government to investing in transport in the UK to help deliver growth and economic security for the whole of the UK. This will remain the case after we leave the EU. The UK remains open for business and industry continues to invest in the UK, as demonstrated by recent announcements such as Associated British Ports’ investment of £50 million in vehicle-handling facilities at the port of Southampton. We will do our best to ensure that transport remains central to our consideration of the issues that arise in the context of our departure from the EU. Once again, I thank hon. Members for their contributions today.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered exiting the EU and transport.