Northern Ireland

David Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Chris Heaton-Harris]

I would say to the hon. Gentleman that I think I am right.

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

When my right hon. Friend appeared before the European Scrutiny Committee yesterday, he promised to deliver the list of the 3% of EU laws he says will remain as a consequence of this process. Can he please tell us where that list is?

[Chris Heaton-Harris]

I gave the majority of that list in the course of those proceedings, and I said that I would write to my right hon. Friend, which I will do.

The old protocol had some measures that were aimed at giving it democratic legitimacy. The UK had a vote over any new laws that the EU wanted to add to the protocol, but that veto did not extend to amendments of laws that were already there, and crucially, there was no role for the Northern Ireland Assembly in deciding whether and when to use that veto. Of course, it contained the democratic consent mechanism, an important means of giving the Assembly the right to end the application of articles 5 to 10 of the old protocol. Those measures were important, and the Windsor framework maintains them, but they were not, in themselves, enough to address the democratic deficit.

Northern Ireland Protocol

David Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 21st July 2021 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

My hon. Friend highlights an important point. We are talking to small businesses and, indeed, the wholesale groups that they often work with to make sure that there is a way for them to be able to work through this, and we will continue to work with them as we go forward. There is technology now, similar to the technology that large companies use, that smaller businesses can use—the trader support service is hugely helpful in this—but my hon. Friend highlights one of the core problems: making sure that goods that are moving to Northern Ireland purely to be consumed in Northern Ireland do not have the same kind of rigmarole and checks. I think that I have mentioned before in the House a large supermarket chain that has no stores in Ireland yet has to go through the same checks. That cannot be right and needs to be resolved.

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con) [V]]

May I, too, say how much I welcome my right hon. Friend’s statement? It is absolutely clear that the protocol is having unintended and adverse consequences for daily life in Northern Ireland and it needs to be fixed. Will he please confirm that he and his colleagues have made it clear to the EU that the UK is keen to resolve these issues and will negotiate positively, and that other, more flexible arrangements, such as mutual enforcement, can be put in place that will respect the integrity of the internal markets of both parties without causing the difficulties that we have witnessed since January?

[Brandon Lewis]

Yes, and we are looking forward to having those very conversations with the EU in the weeks ahead.

United Kingdom Internal Market Bill

David Jones Excerpts

Monday 21st September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Bill Esterson]

Hypocrisy, and nobody will believe it. No one will believe it because of their own words and, increasingly, their own actions. I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that example.

What is this for—customs clearances, and because of a border in the Irish sea that the Government voted for? Have they raised it with the Joint Committee, as my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield Central (Paul Blomfield) asked for the umpteenth time earlier? We would love to know in the wind-up. What of the dispute resolution system and the binding arbitration they have agreed to? Why is it no longer enough? Is this really about state aid, and the Damascene conversion of a Conservative party that last year only spent 0.38% of GDP on subsidies, while in Germany the figure was 1.38% and in Portugal as much as 1.69%? Tell us what this wonderful new world of support for our industries that the Government are proposing is, so we can scrutinise it.

The Government are not very good at scrutiny, are they? We found that out on the Trade Bill, and we continue to do so. They deny any opportunity for parliamentary scrutiny, and it is the same here with these customs clearances and state aid. When it comes to state aid, we are now being told, although we cannot see the detail, that the Japanese deal will have a different state aid regime from the one they are proposing. Is it the one proposed by the Business Secretary or the one that the International Trade Secretary would prefer, with renegotiation of World Trade Organisation state aid rules? Tell us, so that we can scrutinise and make informed decisions before we vote on the provisions in this Bill.

I mention trade deals, and we know from numerous Members tonight and previously what the Speaker of the House of Representatives has said and what the former Vice-President and, I hope, future President, has said about the prospect for those trade deals, given this break of the Northern Ireland agreement and threat to the peace process. What is causing so much disquiet about what Conservative Members signed and voted for last year? Why are they ignoring the senior people in their party and Margaret Thatcher? Why the Damascene conversion to state aid? Broken promises, breaking the peace process and breaking the rule of law and international law—and they know it.

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

I am pleased to speak in support of the Bill, specifically part 5, subject to Government amendment 66. Part 5 proved controversial, even before we began proceedings this afternoon. I have no doubt that my hon. Friend the Minister arrived in the Chamber fully expecting that he would have to defend the Government against accusations of being in breach of their obligations under the withdrawal agreement, and he has not been disappointed.

What has been frequently overlooked in today’s debate is the fact that obligations under the withdrawal agreement move in two directions. There are obligations on both sides. Specifically, the withdrawal agreement and the political declaration impose obligations on both the European Union and the United Kingdom to use their best endeavours in good faith to negotiate expeditiously the free trade agreement that will constitute their future relationship.

The political declaration provides that that relationship must ensure the sovereignty of the United Kingdom and the protection of its internal market. The sad fact is that negotiations have not proceeded expeditiously, and it is more than arguable that the European Union has not used its best endeavours nor acted in good faith. The EU, in fact, has refused to talk about anything other than its so-called red lines of fisheries, the level playing field and state aid. Time is rapidly passing, yet the EU refuses to talk about anything else. If, as a consequence of its intransigence and refusal to discuss things other than its red lines, we arrive at the point where the negotiations fail and there is no free trade agreement, there will be potentially severe, adverse consequences for the integrity of the United Kingdom’s internal market. Hardest hit will be Northern Ireland. To take one example, although the protocol says in terms that Northern Ireland is part of the customs territory of the United Kingdom, the protocol says that it is part of the EU’s customs territory, and potentially the consequences are that goods passing from Northern Ireland to Great Britain will be subject to what the hon. Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson) described as bureaucratic and administrative borders.

That is despite the fact that article 6 of the protocol provides that nothing should prevent the United Kingdom from ensuring unfettered market access for goods moving from Northern Ireland to other parts of the UK’s internal market. Part 5 of the Bill therefore sets up a safeguard against such consequences, should there be no satisfactory conclusion to the negotiations on the future relationship.

The impact on the Belfast/Good Friday agreement is deeply worrying. The right for the people of Great Britain and Ireland to trade freely was enshrined in article 6 of the Acts of Union 1800. Those provisions still apply to Northern Ireland—they are rights set up under a constitutional statute. If the right of the people of Northern Ireland to trade freely with the rest of the UK were to be changed without their consent, it would amount to a major breach of the core principle of the Belfast agreement.

Northern Ireland Protocol: UK Legal Obligations

David Jones Excerpts

Tuesday 8th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

I suggest the hon. Gentleman waits until he has seen the detail of the text tomorrow so that he can support us, as this is about delivering on ensuring that people in Northern Ireland stay part of the United Kingdom, regardless of whether he wishes to or not.

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

Article 6 of the Act of Union provides, in essence, that no duties will be applied to goods passing between Great Britain and Ireland. Does my right hon. Friend agree that these are constitutional rights still enjoyed by the people of Northern Ireland, and that unless the protocol is clarified and adjusted, those rights may possibly be infringed?

[Brandon Lewis]

My right hon. Friend makes an interesting point. He is right in the sense that Northern Ireland is and has been an integral part of the United Kingdom for almost 100 years—as we know, next year, we celebrate the centenary of Northern Ireland. It is an integral part of the United Kingdom. The negotiations have recognised that Northern Ireland will remain part of the United Kingdom customs territory and single market. The clauses we will put in the UK internal market Bill to be published tomorrow will confirm that, regardless of the outcome of those negotiations.

Oral Answers to Questions

David Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd September 2020 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

May I say to the right hon. and learned Gentleman that it is absolutely typical of him that he should frame it in that way? Of course I am very happy to meet the families and the bereaved and I sympathise deeply with all those who have lost loved ones throughout this pandemic; we all feel their pain and their grief. But it turns out that this particular group he refers to are currently in litigation against the Government, and I will certainly meet them once that litigation is concluded. I say to him that it would be a better thing if, rather than trying to score points in that way, he joined together with this Government and said not only that school is safe to go back to—[Interruption.] By the way, that is the first time in four months that he has said it, so I am delighted to have extracted it from him over this Dispatch Box—[Interruption.] He has never said it to me in the House of Commons. I hope he will also say that it is safe for the workforce of this country to go back to work in a covid-secure way.

We want to take this country forward. Not only are we getting the pandemic under control, with deaths down and hospital admissions way, way down, but we will continue to tackle it, with local lockdowns and with our superlative test and trace system, which, before Opposition Members sneer and mock it, has now conducted more tests than any other country in Europe. The right hon. and learned Gentleman might hail that, rather than sneering at this country’s achievements.

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

Discussions in the Joint Committee established under the withdrawal agreement will have the most crucial bearing on the future of trade, not only between the UK and the EU but within the UK itself. Unless otherwise agreed in that Committee, goods passing from Great Britain to Northern Ireland will be subject to the full rigour of the European customs code and to the imposition of tariffs. That would be quite unacceptable, so will my right hon. Friend commit to do whatever it takes to ensure that it does not happen?

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right to raise the concern that he does. We must, of course—and will—deliver on what the protocol says, which is that there shall be unfettered access between GB and NI, and NI and GB, and there shall be no tariffs. We will legislate in the course of the next months to guarantee that.

Oral Answers to Questions

David Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 20th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I have to say that the hon. Gentleman is wrong both on content and on approach. The two issues are separate. There are market economies that Europe still puts dumping tariffs on—we actually did that recently with America, and we have done it in the past with Russia—so I think we should take these two issues separately. We should continue to pursue robust action against China, which is exactly what we are doing, based on the merits. In terms of a closer relationship with China—a trading relationship—I want to help those Welsh businesses, including companies such as Airbus, break into Chinese markets and to make sure we get the best for British jobs, British manufacturing and British exports. That is what we want in our relationship with China.

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

Q14. Speaking of Airbus, the Mersey-Dee region, which straddles the England-Wales border, is one of the most dynamic industrial areas of the country. Does my right hon. Friend welcome the establishment of the all-party Mersey-Dee group, which has been formed to promote the economic success of the region? Will he urge his ministerial colleagues and the Welsh Government to co-operate with the group in its work?

[The Prime Minister]

First, let me join my right hon. Friend in welcoming the new group. It is important, when we look at the development of the Welsh economy, to think about how north Wales can benefit from growth in the north-west of our country and about the links between the north-west and Wales, which the group will examine. Clearly, HS2 and what happens at Crewe will be a vital part of that process. I am very happy to talk further with him.