Children's Wellbeing and Schools Bill (Second sitting)

David Baines Excerpts

Tuesday 21st January 2025 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

I understand that this session should run until 3.15 pm.

[David Baines (St Helens North) (Lab)]

Q Good afternoon. Can you tell us briefly, in your own words, about the urgency—in your view—or otherwise of the Bill? We all agree that your organisations do outstanding, amazing, essential work with vulnerable children and young people up and down the country. How has the landscape for children changed in the last decade? Have things got better for them or worse? Is the Bill needed or not?

Lynn Perry: As an individual charity, we run 800 services. However, right across the coalition, we are seeing an increased level of presenting need. A number of factors are influencers in that: of course, the long shadow of the covid pandemic and then, hard on its heels, the cost of living crisis, which has really impacted a lot of the families that we work with across our charities. Our practitioners across the charities also tell us that thresholds for services are getting increasingly high. Even within some of our early intervention services, we are working with increased complexity of need. That is a really important factor to recognise, because families are under pressure for much longer, which leads to issues that are much more intractable and difficult to address. That is part and parcel of the picture that we are seeking to address.

Without a significant investment in early intervention and early help—the level of spend—I do not think we will be able to achieve the radical transformation that the Bill aims to achieve. We have been doing a report since 2010 that looks at children’s services and funding and the spend on them. We are now seeing a tipping point. If we do not invest now in early help, it will be very difficult for the pendulum to swing back.

Mark Russell: I absolutely endorse all of that. The data in that report shows that councils in England spent £12.2 billion on children’s services, and that is an increase of £600 million on the previous year. However, expenditure on early intervention and support for families has halved during that period, and support for later interventions has doubled, so we are spending all the money at the crisis end. That is the first thing.

Allied to that, the cost of living crisis has hit families really hard around the country. My colleagues who work directly with children are having to buy food for children. We are having to buy shoes for children, duvets for children, and beds for children, who are struggling really deeply right now. I have always had a quote over my desk at home by an American writer called Frederick Douglass, who said:

“It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men.”

I think he was right. I welcome the Bill and also the engagement that our organisations have had with the Government on its content. Thank you for having us along to present our voice to this debate today. However, we need to do much more to give every child in Britain the best possible start in life.

Katharine Sacks-Jones: Just to add, children in the care system are some of the most vulnerable children in our country. We have more children in care than there have been historically—84,000 in England. The outcomes for them are getting worse on a number of issues, including more children being moved away from their local area, away from their family, brothers and sisters, and away from their school. Frequently, they are being moved just because there are not enough places for them to live closer to home. We are seeing an increase in young people leaving the care system and becoming homeless, so on all those issues the outcomes for children in the care system are getting worse. This is an opportunity to address some of those issues, and we very much welcome some of the provisions in the Bill, but there is an opportunity to go further to strengthen it and to really change things for children in the care system.

[The Chair]

I thank all the witnesses for coming today and giving evidence to the Committee. We now move on to our next panel.

Examination of Witnesses

Nigel Genders and Paul Barber gave evidence.

Children's Wellbeing and Schools Bill (Second sitting)

David Baines Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 21st January 2025 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

I understand that this session should run until 3.15 pm.

[David Baines (St Helens North) (Lab)]

Q Good afternoon. Can you tell us briefly, in your own words, about the urgency—in your view—or otherwise of the Bill? We all agree that your organisations do outstanding, amazing, essential work with vulnerable children and young people up and down the country. How has the landscape for children changed in the last decade? Have things got better for them or worse? Is the Bill needed or not?

Lynn Perry: As an individual charity, we run 800 services. However, right across the coalition, we are seeing an increased level of presenting need. A number of factors are influencers in that: of course, the long shadow of the covid pandemic and then, hard on its heels, the cost of living crisis, which has really impacted a lot of the families that we work with across our charities. Our practitioners across the charities also tell us that thresholds for services are getting increasingly high. Even within some of our early intervention services, we are working with increased complexity of need. That is a really important factor to recognise, because families are under pressure for much longer, which leads to issues that are much more intractable and difficult to address. That is part and parcel of the picture that we are seeking to address.

Without a significant investment in early intervention and early help—the level of spend—I do not think we will be able to achieve the radical transformation that the Bill aims to achieve. We have been doing a report since 2010 that looks at children’s services and funding and the spend on them. We are now seeing a tipping point. If we do not invest now in early help, it will be very difficult for the pendulum to swing back.

Mark Russell: I absolutely endorse all of that. The data in that report shows that councils in England spent £12.2 billion on children’s services, and that is an increase of £600 million on the previous year. However, expenditure on early intervention and support for families has halved during that period, and support for later interventions has doubled, so we are spending all the money at the crisis end. That is the first thing.

Allied to that, the cost of living crisis has hit families really hard around the country. My colleagues who work directly with children are having to buy food for children. We are having to buy shoes for children, duvets for children, and beds for children, who are struggling really deeply right now. I have always had a quote over my desk at home by an American writer called Frederick Douglass, who said:

“It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men.”

I think he was right. I welcome the Bill and also the engagement that our organisations have had with the Government on its content. Thank you for having us along to present our voice to this debate today. However, we need to do much more to give every child in Britain the best possible start in life.

Katharine Sacks-Jones: Just to add, children in the care system are some of the most vulnerable children in our country. We have more children in care than there have been historically—84,000 in England. The outcomes for them are getting worse on a number of issues, including more children being moved away from their local area, away from their family, brothers and sisters, and away from their school. Frequently, they are being moved just because there are not enough places for them to live closer to home. We are seeing an increase in young people leaving the care system and becoming homeless, so on all those issues the outcomes for children in the care system are getting worse. This is an opportunity to address some of those issues, and we very much welcome some of the provisions in the Bill, but there is an opportunity to go further to strengthen it and to really change things for children in the care system.

[The Chair]

I thank all the witnesses for coming today and giving evidence to the Committee. We now move on to our next panel.

Examination of Witnesses

Nigel Genders and Paul Barber gave evidence.

SEND Provision

David Baines Excerpts

Thursday 5th September 2024 Westminster Hall

[James Wild]

The hon. Gentleman will be aware from his presence in the Chamber that we did not win the election, so it is for the Government to come forward with what they will do. They are now in power and must take decisions and take responsibility—that is the difference between Opposition and Government.

Finally, I must highlight the impact of the Labour Government’s plans to impose VAT on independent schools from January and what that will mean for SEND provision. More than 100,000 children and young people without an EHCP are educated and receive specialist support in independent schools. My right hon. Friend the Member for Tatton (Esther McVey) made the point well. She highlighted the fact that putting VAT on their fees will disrupt education for thousands of those pupils and place further strain on SEND provision in the state sector. By bringing the changes in partway through the academic year, Labour’s plans seem designed to cause maximum disruption to those children’s learning and to the state school system. Are the Minister and the Government listening to schools and parents, and will they act to ensure that those vulnerable children do not bear the brunt of that policy?

[David Baines (St Helens North) (Lab)]

The hon. Gentleman is talking about disruption to children and their development. Under the previous Government, in the past 10 years, investment in early intervention such as children’s centres fell by about 44%. What effect did he think that had on young children?

[James Wild]

We need to look at such things in the round. We put record amounts into childcare and we have just seen the latest roll-out of our childcare plans, which I think the Government now support, albeit a little sotto voce.

To conclude and to leave the Minister time to respond, there is unity across this Chamber—I hope—about the desire to ensure that the SEND system provides the support and outcomes that children and young people deserve. To help to achieve that, the last Government set out a path of comprehensive reform. It now falls to the new Government to continue to drive improvements, to tackle the challenges set out in this debate by Members from all parties and to deliver the very best for children and their families.