Draft Postal Packets (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2023

Danny Kruger Excerpts

Monday 17th July 2023 General Committees

[The Chair]

Mr Wilson, your point has been noted by the Chair and will be fed back to Mr Speaker, and the Government Whips are listening. You refer to me. When it comes to this position of Chair and whoever sits in the Chair, the House convention, “Erskine May” and the rules and procedures of this House are greater than one individual, however flawed or not flawed the person who sits here, so this is not a matter for me. Whoever sits in the Chair is rightly guided and protected, as Members are, by those who have gone before us.

[Danny Kruger (Devizes) (Con)]

On a point of order, Mr Pritchard. First, may I say how well I think you are doing in this very difficult position? I just want to try to take some of the heat out of this. Although I agree fully with what my colleagues have so far said and their points of order, the fact is that a mistake has been made on the part of the Whips Office. I do not understand entirely the procedure by which this happened. Nevertheless, what clearly happened is that by accident—[Interruption.]

[The Chair]

Order. Will Members please listen? For the first Division, it will be 15 minutes and thereafter 10 minutes. Be aware that as soon as the Minister and shadow Minister are here, we can proceed, so if colleagues want to come and contribute through points of order or through the substantive debate, they should please come back as quickly as possible—[Interruption.] After all of the votes, of course. We are expecting nine.

--- Later in debate ---

[Danny Kruger]

On a point of order, Mr Pritchard. I apologise for not being back as fast as everybody else. The point I was trying to make before we broke is that it is a great shame that this situation has arisen, and I regret the hard words that have been passed.

Although I agree with the sentiment of my right hon. and hon. Friends that, in a sense, there has been an irregularity in the attempt to withdraw names from the Committee, I understand what the Government are doing. Fundamentally, a mistake was made on the part of the Whips—let us be frank about this—in appointing to the Committee a series of people who, on record, have voted against the Windsor framework, which we are implementing today. I understand that the Whips wanted to change the plan, and I have great respect for my right hon. and hon. Friends who have been appointed to the Committee today, but I do not think it is fair for them to be asked to fulfil the duties of the Committee at such late notice.

My simple suggestion is that, given the mistake that has been made by the Whips on our side and the frankly bad blood that is now in evidence across the Committee Room, it is not appropriate to try to continue. On your part, Mr Pritchard, and on the part of the Front Benchers, surely it should be recognised that the Committee has to be reconstituted, no doubt with Members who are more amenable to the Government than some of us, and to continue on another occasion.

[The Chair]

I am grateful for that point of order. I remind the hon. Gentleman of my comments earlier about Mr Speaker’s ruling. It is not a one-off. Colleagues may not like it, but Mr Speaker has made his ruling.

As I set out just before the hon. Gentleman joined the Committee again, Standing Order No. 118(5) requires that the Committee debate the motion

“That the committee has considered”

the draft regulations. The Clerk read out the title earlier; I have already called the Minister, and the motion is already in progress. As I said earlier, colleagues, who have clearly been moved to make points of order with such strength, will have other opportunities to raise their concerns with the Government on the Floor of the House about the procedural events, shall we say, of the past few hours.