Children's Wellbeing and Schools Bill (Tenth sitting)

Debate between Damian Hinds and David Baines

Committee stage
Tuesday 4th February 2025 Public Bill Committees

[Damian Hinds]

If the hon. Gentleman is going to pose a great rhetorical question like that, he should have an answer ready. What is it? What is this thing that we are reaching for? I do not think any of us in this room is well qualified or well placed to say, “Where can we take this school?” The person best placed to decide that is the school leader. We would like to give some leeway and flexibility, within a system of all sorts of measurements, constraints and so on, for people to be able to innovate and do what is right for children.

[David Baines]

The right hon. Gentleman would have made a good teacher, because he has a very engaging style—although I would have been grateful for a curriculum so I knew what he was covering in the classroom.

Is the right hon. Gentleman in favour of a national curriculum? If he is not—I am really not sure—why did he not repeal it? If schools need greater flexibility, why did he not get rid of it when he was Education Secretary?

[Damian Hinds]

Bless the hon. Gentleman for saying I am engaging, but I am obviously not that engaging, because I spent the first three minutes explaining why the national curriculum is the core standard and why it is central to our school system. That does not mean, though, that we cannot have some deviation from it, just like—if I recall this, I might bring it back to mind—qualified teacher status, which is, of course, a central part of our teaching profession, but that does not mean there cannot be a little bit of deviation—it is about 3% and has been for the last decade and a half—from it.

[David Baines]

rose—

[Tom Hayes]

rose—

[Damian Hinds]

I will give way to the hon. Member for St Helens North as he was the nicest to me.

[David Baines]

The right hon. Gentleman just said that the national curriculum is a set of core standards; why should that not apply for all schools?

[Damian Hinds]

For all the reasons that I gave, it does apply. Ofsted requires a broad and balanced curriculum from every school, and the vast majority of the time the vast majority of schools say that that is the national curriculum, but some of them may innovate and deviate. They may need to do something different to support children or they may be in a school improvement phase. All those are good reasons. In a system where we trust school leaders and teachers to do what is right for the kids in front of them, those are all reasons to have some flexibility.

VAT: Independent Schools

Debate between Damian Hinds and David Baines

Tuesday 8th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[David Baines]

Indeed.

There is a lot that deserves to be said about our schools. We have heard many Conservative Members ask about the impact. They suddenly care about the impact of decisions made in this place, but where was their talk of impacts over the past 14 years? In St Helens North, 81% of schools have had real-terms funding cuts since 2010—over £3 million in real terms, or £239 for every pupil. Where was the consideration of impacts when the last Government cancelled Labour’s Building Schools for the Future programme and watched our state schools crumble? Where was the talk of impacts when the last Government presided over a SEND system that is failing over 1 million children and that their own Education Secretary described as a “lose-lose-lose”? Where was the concern for impacts when standards fell, which they did?

[Damian Hinds]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[David Baines]

No, I am pushed for time.

Where was the consideration of impacts when the inspection system did not and does not work for parents, schools or pupils? Where was the consideration of impacts when child poverty increased? Where was the consideration of impacts when the lack of investment in school support staff and basic resources meant that teachers were buying resources for their pupils? Where was the consideration of impacts when we had a recruitment and retention crisis among teachers?

We could talk about all these issues if the Conservatives truly wanted a debate on schools, but they do not. They could have used today’s Opposition day debate to talk about these things, but instead they have used their time to talk about our decision to end a tax exemption that benefits only the wealthiest. They showed no concern whatsoever for state schools over the past 14 years, and now they are apparently concerned about impacts.

I make it crystal clear that the parents of state school pupils are every bit as ambitious, loving and hard-working as those who can afford to send their children to private schools. I stand with them, and I stand with our state schools.