Football Governance Bill (Sixth sitting)

Debate between Damian Collins and Tracey Crouch

Committee stage
Tuesday 21st May 2024 Public Bill Committees

[Damian Collins]

I will draw my remarks to a conclusion. I appreciate that—the hon. Member for Sheffield South East makes a similar argument—it is not an argument for the abolition of parachute payments. My concern is that if we take that step, we would have to bring into scope all football money, not just the money that the Premier League pays in redistribution to clubs in the lower leagues and through parachute payments. That would be a much wider step and would require further consideration. If such recommendations are to be made in future, that should be done after the regulator is established and we have the state of the game report.

[Dame Tracey Crouch]

I find part 6 to be one of the most infuriating parts of the Bill, not because it is a bad aspect of the Bill but because it should not exist. The truth is that if there had been a deal between the two parties—the Premier League and the EFL—part 6 would look very different. We made it clear in the fan-led review that distributions are an issue for football and they should be able to resolve that issue themselves, but that it was important for backstop powers to be there to intervene if no solution was found. That is what part 6 is, and it has become a more controversial part of the Bill than was perhaps ever envisaged. We had hoped back in November 2021, when we published the fan-led review, that there would be a deal.

--- Later in debate ---

[Damian Collins]

Does my hon. Friend agree that there is a slight danger, if we go down the path suggested by the amendment, of creating an even bigger gap between the big six and everyone else? We would basically be saying to the rest of the clubs, “The parachute payments are not for us: they are for you—the other 14 clubs in the Premier League. If you want them, you can pay for them and pay for the solidarity payments for the football league as well”, because that is effectively what would happen.

[Dame Tracey Crouch]

I completely agree with my hon. Friend. I always refer back to that point in the fan-led review, and we mulled over that issue at length. The truth is that we did not come to a conclusion ourselves, because it is so complex. We have made it clear in the chapter on financial distribution that we hope that there will be reform to the system, but this was back in 2021, for goodness’ sake. I want to bang everybody’s heads together and send them to bed without any tea, because we are dealing with the failure of the leagues to reach a solution, and I hope that the message they get from today’s sitting and the evidence sessions that we had last week is to go away and come up with another solution. The Bill sets out the process if there is no deal on that, and ultimately if there is no amendment to the Bill, let that be an inspiration to people to come together and find a solution.

Football Governance Bill (Fifth sitting)

Debate between Damian Collins and Tracey Crouch

Committee stage
Tuesday 21st May 2024 Public Bill Committees

[Dame Tracey Crouch]

Will my hon. Friend clarify something? Is he saying is that there is no need to change any part of the Bill? This needs to be reflected in the intent of the corporate governance statement, and some of these things can be included without amendment to the legislation?

[Damian Collins]

My hon. Friend makes a very important point. That is exactly correct. I think it is a question of being clear as to what the corporate governance statement should include, either in the Bill or at least in the explanatory notes. The explanatory notes already say that a description of all the operations of all the elements of the club should be included; it would be extraordinary if we thought that that did not include a statement on equality, diversity and inclusion, or on the welfare of the players. This has been requested throughout the passage of the Bill. In particular, we have heard that at present there is no requirement for an EDI statement, nor are players mentioned at all. As my hon. Friend the Member for Chatham and Aylesford says, without changing the structure of the Bill, or maybe even its wording Bill, we could make it really clear that these things are included through these important corporate governance statements.

Football Governance Bill (Second sitting)

Debate between Damian Collins and Tracey Crouch

Committee stage
Tuesday 14th May 2024 Public Bill Committees

[Dame Tracey Crouch]

Q Yes, the world of sport did not fall apart by having more women on boards. Going back to the game, when Charlton were relegated, one of the first things they did was ditch their women’s team. That is not unique; other clubs have done exactly the same. Should the club’s licensing requirements state that clubs have to continue their investment in the women’s game regardless of where they are in the leagues?

Jane Purdon: This is such a tough question, because that money has to come from somewhere, and what do you cut? Do you cut funding to your academy? It is so tough. The real answer is that we have to get women’s football independently standing on its own feet and turning a dollar in its own right.

[Damian Collins]

Q Following on from the previous question, I have asked different witnesses about the corporate governance statement that clubs are required to make. I think you touched on that. Do you think it would be appropriate for clubs to have to consider how they meet their wider obligations as part of that corporate governance statement? I think it would be relevant to the regulator if a club was seeking to meet its financial regulatory standards by trimming back on other things it should be doing.

Jane Purdon: I think transparency is a great thing, as is transparency in sport. If you have ever read the code for sports governance, it kind of flows through that. We said to the sport governing bodies who were not as well resourced as many football clubs, “Tell the world what you are doing. Even tell them when you don’t hit your targets and then explain what you are going to do, because it breeds trust.” Against that, we do need to be proportionate and make sure that we are not asking organisations to report for the sake of reporting, and that there is real value that comes from the onerous work that reporting involves.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Damian Collins and Tracey Crouch

Thursday 10th May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Tracey Crouch]

I had the good fortune of bumping into a senior member of Celtic in Parliament earlier this week and we had a brief discussion on Celtic. Both my officials and those from the SGSA have already visited the rail seating area at Celtic to see it in operation. It has not been without its problems and has been closed twice already during the last season because of fan behaviour, but we continue to look at the development of rail seating at Celtic.

[Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con)]

As the Minister knows, a growing number of clubs are calling for safe standing to be reviewed and reintroduced. Does she think this should now be not the matter of a blanket ban, but a matter for safety authorities, the fans and local authorities, and decided on a case-by-case basis?

[Tracey Crouch]

The Government are committed to the current policy on all-seater stadiums. For this to be different, legislative change would be required. We will have a longer debate on this matter on 25 June, when I am sure we will be able to have a much more engaged discussion on it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Damian Collins and Tracey Crouch

Thursday 9th February 2017 Commons Chamber

[Tracey Crouch]

May I start by congratulating the hon. Lady on all that she does in championing disability rights? Her reputation on this matter is fast spreading around the Chamber and beyond.

My hon. Friend the Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work and I would be delighted to meet the hon. Lady to discuss this issue, which we care passionately about and are making progress on. It is not just the English premier league that we are talking about, but football throughout this country and across the other home nations. I urge all Members to do what they can to encourage their local clubs to be as successful as possible.

[Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con)]

Given all the wealth in premier league football, does the Minister agree that it is unacceptable that there are still clubs that do not yet have a plan to meet accessibility targets for their stadiums? Does she also agree with the Select Committee’s report that clubs that fail to do that should face legal action?

[Tracey Crouch]

I do not agree that the clubs do not have a plan; they have a plan, but they might not be meeting it. My hon. Friend is right that there should be legal action, but it is not for me to advance that. He will be aware that the Equality and Human Rights Commission is the body that enforces the Equality Act 2010. If insufficient progress is being made by clubs, the commission should consider using its legal powers—it would have my full support were it to do so.

Coventry City Football Club

Debate between Damian Collins and Tracey Crouch

Tuesday 11th October 2016 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Tracey Crouch)]

As always, it is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gapes. I am extremely grateful to the hon. Member for Coventry South (Mr Cunningham) for securing this debate. We have been friends across the Chamber for many years, and he is extremely passionate about this issue. There has not been a moment in our friendship when Coventry City has not come up as a topic of conversation. With his knowledge and passion, he made some incredibly insightful contributions, as did other hon. Members.

As the hon. Gentleman said, football clubs up and down the country remain a matter of great importance. They are valuable parts of our local communities, and every care should be taken by their owners and stakeholders to protect their long-term future. The preservation of Coventry City football club in particular is not a new issue. As the hon. Gentleman said, my predecessor, my hon. Friend the Member for Maidstone and The Weald (Mrs Grant), debated the subject in the House in September 2014 and October 2013. I am sure I was not alone in welcoming the club’s return to the Ricoh arena in late 2014, so it is with regret that two years on we are once again talking about our concerns about the club’s ownership and the uncertainty surrounding where the team will be playing its football in the foreseeable future.

There is a great deal of focus on the amount of money at the top end of professional football, but we must remember that the majority of clubs compete in the lower divisions and operate on a considerably different scale. Such clubs cannot rely on huge sums of money from broadcasters or sponsors. They need the continuous support of local businesses, local councils and, of course, the club’s supporters. That applies to Coventry City. I am aware of its illustrious past—as the hon. Gentleman knows, the first time I ever cried at a football match was when Coventry beat Tottenham at Wembley in 1987. Despite that, I have great sympathy with the fans of Coventry City, as I have with the supporters of any club that is suffering as a consequence of either poor performance on the pitch or financial struggles off the pitch.

The financial state of clubs in this country is better now than at any time over the past 20 years. The football authorities have made progress over recent years to introduce new ownership and financial rules, including a means and abilities test, which requires proof of funds from prospective new owners, transfer embargoes to help to curb club spending and the financial fair play principles across the 92 professional clubs. Financial fair play, in particular, has led to more responsible spending by clubs and, as a result, fewer incidents of club insolvencies. I think I am right in saying that Coventry City’s owners have in recent years reduced the debt the club once carried, and the return to the Ricoh arena has improved the club’s financial position. However, I hear what both the hon. Member for Coventry South and my hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Damian Collins) said, and I can reassure them that the test will always remain under review.

Ensuring the long-term financial sustainability of clubs must be the primary responsibility of the football authorities and of all owners. That said, I also believe that supporters have every right to protest against the way they see their club being run if they believe that the plans or methods the owners are deploying are not working, so long as those protests are carried out in a non-threatening manner. It is clear from the ongoing protests at Coventry City that genuine concerns remain about the owners’ ability to take the club forward and to resolve the matter of where the first team and its academy will train and play. Those would be real concerns for any club. Although I am not privy to the owners’ thought process or the discussions that have taken place among the relevant parties about residency, it is clear that there remains a distinct lack of clarity on all those fronts. I call on all those interested parties to come forward and to provide the clarity that is needed, for the good of the club and its loyal supporters.

[Damian Collins]

The Minister said that the owners and directors test is kept under review. Does she share my concern that, as it is defined at the moment, it is a fairly narrow test of whether someone has unspent convictions that make them incapable of being a director? It gives little discretionary power to the league or the FA to come to an opinion, based on a range of factors that are part of the experience of that director, about whether that director is fit to hold that role.

[Tracey Crouch]

We always keep all such things under review, and I am looking forward to seeing the outcome of the Culture, Media and Sport Committee’s meeting next week with the FA. It is important that we have healthy football clubs and owners who care for and respect those football clubs and the communities in which they sit. There is a gamut of reasons for that, including more than just financial conduct and criminal activity. It is important that we keep such things under review, but I am looking forward to seeing the outcome of the Select Committee’s meeting next week with the FA.

I return to the need to ensure that all interested parties come forward and provide clarity. It is important that the club’s owners and Coventry City Council sit down and try to resolve the ongoing row between them, which began with rent disputes and resulted in the football team temporarily relocating to Northampton, and continues to cast a shadow over the new and progressive measures that are needed to take the club forward. I am aware of the ongoing legal dispute and I do not want to prejudice it or take sides. It is for the two parties and Wasps Rugby to decide how best to resolve that dispute and set about finding ways to work together, for the sake of the local community.

The club’s owners or senior executives should make arrangements to meet a representative group of Coventry supporters as soon as possible. There needs to be much greater open dialogue on the matters of strategic importance to the club, including what plans there are for its future home.

--- Later in debate ---

[Tracey Crouch]

The hon. Gentleman is picking up on a theme that I was getting to: the importance of supporters and of clubs listening to supporters. He will be aware that structured dialogue between club owners and their supporter groups was a key recommendation in the report of the expert working group on football supporter ownership and engagement. That report is the culmination of the work that the Government have done over several years, in partnership with the football authorities and supporter representative groups, to find ways to improve supporter engagement beyond the customer relationship and to recognise supporters as integral to clubs’ success. The leagues have codified that structured dialogue requirement in their rulebooks, and those structured meetings will begin this season. The football authorities are currently working on guidance to clubs on how those meetings should be structured. If that is not happening at Coventry, please let me know, because it is important that those recommendations are implemented at all levels of football. I believe that those meetings will lead the way in ensuring that fans are better informed about and consulted on clubs’ activities, including their financial standing, the identity of their owners and other matters of real importance.

[Damian Collins]

Going back to a point that the Minister made earlier, does she accept that one of the reasons that such cases—be it Coventry, Leeds, Portsmouth or whatever—come back to the Minister’s door time after time is that the football authorities are powerless to do anything when they see a club being run badly? As long as owners are keeping within the narrow confines of the rules, they can run a football club into the ground and the FA will not lift a finger.

[Tracey Crouch]

My hon. Friend makes an important point, which I will discuss with officials later today. There is perhaps a gap there, and that is perhaps something that we need to look at. I am sure that that issue will be raised by him or other members of the Culture, Media and Sport Committee at its meeting next week with the FA.

I will turn briefly to the comments made by the hon. Member for Coventry North East on the Football League. Following all the discussions and the temporary relocation, the league confirmed:

“Any application to move…to a stadium outside the city would need to be considered by”

the league’s board.

“In doing so, the Board would require the club to demonstrate that it had a clear plan for returning to Coventry within a prescribed timeframe.”

I sincerely hope that history does not repeat itself and that the club does not find itself playing outside its city again. However, it is important that supporters know exactly what the rules are, so after this debate I will ask the league to confirm its position. Furthermore, there should be a proposal forthcoming for the league or the FA to ensure that fans are properly consulted.

To conclude, it is right that the Government do not involve themselves in the regulation of football or the business and commercial affairs of any club. Football clubs must be run as businesses, but they also need social consciences; they must consider the impacts of their actions on supporters and the local community. It is important that those who have a direct say or influence over the future of Coventry City stand up and provide the clarity that is needed. It is of paramount importance that the city of Coventry has a football club.

For my part, I will meet the football authorities in the coming months to discuss several relevant matters in the game and will ask them specifically for an update on the progress with Coventry City. In the meantime, I wish the Sky Blues the best of luck against Charlton on Saturday and hope that we can resolve this situation collectively for the hon. Member for Coventry South and the people of Coventry.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Damian Collins and Tracey Crouch

Thursday 21st January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con)]

3. What recent steps his Department has taken to increase support for grassroots sport in areas of deprivation.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Tracey Crouch)]

I fundamentally believe, and it is reflected in the new sports strategy, that sport has the power to change lives and communities, particularly in deprived areas. As a result, we will invest significantly in organisations that deliver programmes in deprived areas, which will make a difference in health outcomes, community cohesion and individual life chances.

[Damian Collins]

As this will probably be the Minister’s last Question Time before the arrival of her new baby, may I wish her and her family well for the next few weeks?

Does the Minister agree that sporting programmes such as Kicks, run by the Premier League, and Hitz, supported by the rugby premier league, do excellent work tackling gang crime and antisocial behaviour and rehabilitating young offenders, and that they should be at the heart of the delivery of the Government’s new sports strategy?

[Tracey Crouch]

I am a huge fan of both those schemes. The Premier League Kicks project, which is supported by a number of partners, including my own Department and now the Home Office, shows that 75% of its participants live in the top 30% most deprived areas in England. Where the scheme has been run, it has seen a 60% reduction in antisocial behaviour. It is exactly those kind of projects that will play a key role in delivering the new sports strategy.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Damian Collins and Tracey Crouch

Thursday 3rd December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Tracey Crouch]

Football is nothing without its fans, its volunteers and the communities that it works in. It is important that we celebrate and honour those who dedicate their lives in a variety of different ways to football, so I join the hon. Gentleman in congratulating Mr Amos on all that he has done to serve the Northern league.

[Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con)]

Will the Minister say when the report from the expert working group will be published? We were hoping that it would be published at the end of last month. While the arrests in Zurich this morning highlight the problems in the governance of world football, there are still many concerns about the governance of football in this country, too.

[Tracey Crouch]

I can certainly give an indication about when I expect the report. If anything, I owe the hon. Member for Eltham (Clive Efford) an apology, because in my response to this question last time, I said that it would be published before his Bill comes before the House tomorrow. I have received a copy of the report. It has been done by football for football, so it is only right that the football authorities that need to look through it are given the opportunity to do so. I expect that to be done within the next three weeks and that the report will be published in January.

FIFA

Debate between Damian Collins and Tracey Crouch

Wednesday 10th June 2015 Westminster Hall

[Tracey Crouch]

I am still working out what all my powers are, to be perfectly honest, but if I do have that power, I would love to see the report.

As an Arsenal fan, I am glad that my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham (Stephen Phillips) managed to recover in time to make such an excellent speech. It included some really brilliant points, which I will deal with in detail. My hon. Friend the Member for High Peak (Andrew Bingham) is a huge sports fan, and hon. Members will definitely want him on their quiz team.

[Damian Collins]

It might be helpful, following on from the question from my hon. Friend the Member for Hereford and South Herefordshire (Jesse Norman), to say that the Serious Fraud Office could, I believe, ask the Swiss authorities for a copy of the Garcia report, to see whether the SFO has grounds to assist them in their investigation.

[Tracey Crouch]

I will deal in some detail with the issues relating to the Serious Fraud Office.

I congratulate the hon. Member for Livingston (Hannah Bardell) on her electoral success, and I welcome her to Westminster. I am glad to hear of her football past; perhaps she can help me lobby the FA to make sure the parliamentary team is a mixed-gender team. I was previously banned from it, so it would be nice to have other women involved in that campaign. She made some interesting comments about Mr Blatter’s attendance at the women’s World cup. I should perhaps not comment on whether he should attend, but given his previous opinions on women’s football, I can say that although he may be going, I doubt he will be welcome.

To respond to the hon. Member for Eltham (Clive Efford), I will try not to be nice for too long, so that he can resume normal service. His 12-point plan raised some good issues. This is a cross-party issue—there is not much partisan debate about FIFA—and I am sure many of us would like to see some of his points implemented. The Government are looking into the issues relating to broadcasting and migrant workers. My hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and Hythe, too, raised the issue of migrant workers, and the Foreign Office is working closely on it with other Governments.

The allegations levelled at FIFA—the custodians of the game—and reported in recent weeks, months, and indeed years, are deeply disturbing. As Members will know, investigations into FIFA by Swiss and US authorities are ongoing. I cannot comment on the investigations or prejudge the outcomes, but I can reassure Members, many of whom mentioned the SFO, that it is actively reviewing material relating to the allegations, although it is not possible for me to go into detail.

The Bribery Act 2010 can apply only to conduct committed on or after 1 July 2011—after the FIFA bidding process was complete. In addition, the SFO has the power only to investigate cases of suspected serious or complex fraud falling within this country’s criminal jurisdiction. However, I am sure officials heard the comments about the Garcia report and are looking into the issue in more detail.

Until the current investigations have concluded I will not be drawn on whether Russia and Qatar should continue to host the 2018 and 2022 World cups . However, colleagues will have seen that the FA’s chief executive, Martin Glenn, has stated that the FA has no interest in staging either of those World cups, and its focus, along with UEFA’s, is on ensuring there is much-needed reform at FIFA. The Government fully support that view. Colleagues will also have heard my hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and Hythe say that Jérôme Valcke has announced that the bidding process for 2026 has been suspended, although it is not clear why at the moment.

I join colleagues in welcoming the work done by The Sunday Times Insight team and BBC’s “Panorama” to bring to light many of the accusations we have heard about. Those have received so much media coverage because of our proud heritage of a free press and investigative journalism, and because people in the UK feel so passionately about football. That is why we all want a fair and transparent process for future tournaments. We will find out soon enough whether corruption is proven to have taken place at the highest levels of FIFA, but it is fair to say that trust in the organisation has been lost, and whenever trust is lost, it is very difficult to win back. That is why we cannot rest on our laurels. We must make sure that proper reform takes place. Colleagues have said that although Sepp Blatter’s resignation is a welcome and positive step, it is unacceptable that it is taking so long for him to stand down. It has been reported this morning that his successor’s election is likely to take place in December.

The hon. Member for Islwyn mentioned FIFA taking a fresh approach that could see it learn lessons from Salt Lake City, and I completely agree. FIFA should look to draw experience from some of the many successful international sporting federations. It would also be possible to take the recruitment process away from sport entirely and to seek to recruit from within a successful business.

In the short time left, I want to respond to colleagues’ comments about what I can do as a Minister and what I am trying to do with my European counterparts. On 28 May, I wrote to them, setting out my concern about recent developments and seeking their support in pressing for reform at FIFA. I hope to get FIFA on the agenda for the forthcoming EU Sports Ministers’ meeting in Luxembourg in July. Officials are discussing that with the appropriate people in Luxembourg. My hon. and learned Friend the Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham mentioned a potential discussion with Commonwealth colleagues, and I will shortly seek a meeting with the Commonwealth secretary-general to discuss a range of sporting matters, including how we can help to promote good governance in sport across the Commonwealth.

The allegations against FIFA have brought the game into disrepute. I do not think football’s reputation has ever been so bad. It is for us to ensure that proper reform takes place, and that we end up with a fully open and transparent FIFA. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and Hythe on all the work he is doing to try to ensure that that happens.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered the UK’s relationship with FIFA.

Olympics and Paralympics (Funding)

Debate between Damian Collins and Tracey Crouch

Monday 27th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Tracey Crouch]

I completely agree. For too long we have had an “everyone should have prizes” culture, and the great thing about sport is that it does encourage competitiveness. Competitiveness is right at a particular age: it is important to ensure that young people at an early age engage in sport, but as they get older competitiveness becomes a hugely important part.

Returning to the 1984 LA Olympics, I only remember the track events to be perfectly honest, perhaps because that is all television showed at the time. There was no red button to switch from the popular track and field events to others.

[Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con)]

I am enjoying my hon. Friend’s recollection of the Los Angeles Olympics. Hockey was given a terrific boost as a result of the success of the men’s team, who won an unprecedented bronze medal at the time. Interest in the sport was given a huge boost.

[Tracey Crouch]

I completely agree, and my hon. Friend will be aware that there are three Kent players in the GB team, so we look forward to an increase in people’s participation in hockey, although my memories of it, at a girl’s school in his constituency, fill me with horror sometimes.

With the advent of multi-platform broadcasting, I am excited for our younger generation, who will be able to watch almost any event live in their front rooms and be awed or inspired by the athleticism of our British competitors. Medway, as my hon. Friend the Member for Gillingham and Rainham (Rehman Chishti) said, will host various teams in the run-up to the Olympic and Paralympic games, including the Portuguese gymnastics and trampolining squads and the Barbados Paralympic team.

The Olympic torch will come to Chatham, as it will to other towns, giving local people a real sense of participation in the games. I learned recently that I have a former Olympian living in my constituency. Frank Sando ran the 10,000m in the 1952 and 1956 Olympics, finishing a respectable 5th in Helsinki but 10th in Melbourne. He was, however, a dominant force in international cross-country for most of the ’50s, and I am sure that he will act as an inspiration to many locally, who may go on to join Maidstone Harriers, a popular athletics club.