European Council

Crispin Blunt Excerpts

Monday 10th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

We will hold a meeting tomorrow that will include representatives from the European Commission and from Britain, to go through and look in detail at which individuals could potentially be named. There should be maximum co-operation between the various European countries and European organisations about this.

[Mr Crispin Blunt (Reigate) (Con)]

Europe is littered with potential conflicts like that now afflicting Crimea. Is my right hon. Friend clear that the security of the whole of Europe depends on countries obeying the rules in this area, and while Russia remains outside those rules, she must be made to pay a very serious economic price?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is right. As I have said, we have these frozen conflicts that we still struggle with across Europe. We are making a concerted effort to ensure that this does not turn into another one. We have to accept that there will be real and quite painful consequences for European countries if we have to go ahead with sanctions, but we should do so because it would be a greater evil to allow this situation to continue.

Oral Answers to Questions

Crispin Blunt Excerpts

Wednesday 20th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Hon. Members]

Hear, hear.

[Mr Crispin Blunt (Reigate) (Con)]

Good ideas have many parents, and I am sitting alongside two of them in the case of the prison in Wrexham. I urge my hon. Friend the Minister to make sure that, as a new large prison, it contains units that can deal with all the different types of offenders who will need to be addressed to produce the best rehabilitative effect, and that there are proper work facilities for prisoners under that regime.

[Stephen Crabb]

I thank my hon. Friend. Last week, I saw a great example of a large and diverse prison—Parc prison in Bridgend—which shows just how effectively different categories of prisoners can be brought together and offending behaviour can be tackled. We have exactly the same aspiration for the new prison in north Wales.

Syria and the Use of Chemical Weapons

Crispin Blunt Excerpts

Thursday 29th August 2013 Commons Chamber

[Edward Miliband]

Yes I can, because the amendment goes on to say,

“designed to deter the future use of prohibited chemical weapons in Syria”.

Paragraph (e) also states that

“such action must have regard to the potential consequences in the region”,

so any proposed action to deter the use of chemical weapons must be judged against the consequences that will follow. Further work by the Government is necessary to set out what those consequences would be.

[Mr Crispin Blunt (Reigate) (Con)]

On consequences, I am listening carefully to the Leader of the Opposition and he is effectively making a strong case against military action. The consequences of the military action envisaged are very unquantifiable, because the objectives are, frankly, pretty soft in terms of degrading and deterring and of the link between military effect and the actual effect on the ground. He has also linked this to the consequences for the Geneva II process, which can only be negative.

[Edward Miliband]

I am saying to the hon. Gentleman and the House that over the coming period, we have to assess in a calm and measured way—not in a knee-jerk way, and not on a political timetable—the advantages of potential action, whether such action can be taken on the basis of legitimacy and international law, and what the consequences would be.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Crispin Blunt (Reigate) (Con)]

We should reflect first on the awful responsibility of our leaders who find themselves as chief executives in these circumstances. The witnessing of an appalling crime on television, played out endlessly on YouTube and other internet sites, showed that something utterly dreadful had happened. The President of the United States, the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom or the President of France, who all command armed forces that could do something about it, then faced many pressures. The shadow Health Secretary spoke emotionally about wanting to address this appalling crime when he appeared on television last Sunday, but I think the shadow Foreign Secretary was probably not wildly enthusiastic about the implications of what his right hon. Friend said when he gave vent to his feelings. It then falls to this Parliament coldly to consider the effect of taking action when it is felt that something must done, yet the evidence shows that the action might makes things worse rather than better.

On the issue of attribution, there was an intriguing piece of information, perhaps a leak, placed in The Times about what was apparently a SIGINT—signals intelligence—report of a conversation between the Assad defence ministry and the field commander of the chemical weapons unit. It was described as a rather panicked conversation. I can see no conceivable reason why Assad would have directed this particular use of weapons on this occasion, although I can see that such weapons could be used where the responsibility has been delegated to field commanders to help them out when they are in desperate situations. The Joint Intelligence Committee information seems to suggest that that might have happened on this occasion. As the JIC suggests, there has been low-level use, and I would agree that the responsibility almost certainly sits with the Assad Administration, although whether it sits with President Assad personally is another issue.

[Mr Graham Stuart]

If our aim is to deter further use of chemical weapons and protect people, is my hon. Friend aware of any ultimatum previously given by the west to Assad on the use of chemical weapons? If not, would not the more logical response be to lay down a credible threat, rather than one artificially limited by some time frame, stating, “If you fail to undertake not to use chemical weapons, we will degrade and deter you by military strike and bring you to the table”? Might that not have more effect than a short-term military strike now?

[Mr Blunt]

The difficulty is legality, which is why the Government have been dancing on the head of a pin, making the case that this is absolutely and only about the use of chemical weapons—because nothing else in international law would justify the sort of intervention that is being proposed if agreement at the UN Security Council cannot be reached. If we get to that grave position, I think we have to be pretty certain about the effectiveness of the military action before we take it. Are we going actively to degrade chemical weapons? There are hideous practical problems in attempting that, with the potential of awful collateral damage. If we go after the command and control structure in a way that is sufficiently active to degrade it, that plainly means going after Assad himself, thus actively intervening on one side in the conduct of the war.

The critical point about the consequences was put by the Leader of the Opposition in his speech, and it is implicit in the motion. I rather wish that the Opposition had been more direct about the implications of what the right hon. Gentleman was saying. He was saying that if the consequences of our military action were to threaten the Geneva II process, which should mean Assad and his Government on the one side and the rebels on the other sitting down, engaging in politics and reaching a deal to escape from the current position, the action would not be worth engaging in. I think that case is overwhelmingly strong. It is the Russians, supported by the Chinese, who have put themselves in this position by vetoing any attempt to bring about wider international action, so the responsibility is theirs to get their client to the negotiating table.

The responsibility to act is not ours, particularly on much more doubtful legal ground around the use of international humanitarian law, which could get us into a potentially hideous situation with unforeseen consequences. If we are lucky, what we are debating here and perhaps again next week is a very limited British involvement in quite a small international operation of firing off some scores of cruise missiles to make a point about deterring action. We might be firing one cruise missile so that our hand is, as it were, on the dagger of international action.

I suppose that if Prime Minister Blair did nothing else, he at least so sensitised the body politic that we are here having this debate in recess, and we are yet to be in a position where we are even authorising a very limited use of military action. However, we are intervening in a situation where, in the analysis of Eugene Rogan, this is not about winner takes all in Syria; it is about loser must die. So the idea that we will send an effective deterrence message with a limited use of military action does not stand up.

We need to consider other responsibilities. This month, the Egyptian Government have, with malice aforethought, murdered well over 1,000 of their own citizens to suppress people who were supporting what had been previously an elected Government. What are they to think about the fact that we are getting ourselves into a position to intervene over Syria, and yet we have said precious little about a crime that is on the scale of five or 10 times what we are debating here? It has not been part of an insurgency yet, but the Egyptian Government have almost certainly kicked an insurgency off as a result of what they are doing.

We need to examine what we are doing and whether it will work. I do not think it will; I cannot support it.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

I would like to make some progress.

Before I conclude, I think that it is important that we remind ourselves of the events that brought us here tonight; the murder of Syrian civilians, including innocent children, with chemical weapons outlawed by the world nearly a century ago. Those haunting images of human suffering will stay with all of us who saw them for a very long time. There is a danger in this debate that we lose sight of the historical gravity of those events. Chemical weapons are uniquely indiscriminate and heinous and we must not forget that. It is right that we proceed with care; openly, consensually and multilaterally. It is right that we restrict our commitment in principle to action that is limited, proportionate and in keeping with international law. It is right that we ask ourselves all the detailed questions that have been voiced here today.

But there is another question facing us tonight, which is what kind of nation are we? Are we open or closed? Are we engaged in shaping the world around us, or shunning the difficult dilemmas we all face?

[Mr Blunt]

The difficulty with this part of the Deputy Prime Minister’s argument is that we have seen in the last month an atrocity carried out by the Egyptian Government against their own people with something like five to 10 times the number of people killed than in the incident in Syria. My right hon. Friend has a problem if he is to advance the argument in this way, as was done by the Chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee.

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

As we have been explicit throughout and as the Prime Minister said at the outset earlier this afternoon, this is solely about the deterrence and discouragement of the further use of chemical weapons. Chemical weapons have been banned worldwide, and we as a nation have played an instrumental role in installing that ban since the 1920s, because of the atrocities of the first world war. That is what we are trying to uphold on humanitarian grounds.

European Council

Crispin Blunt Excerpts

Monday 11th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am very grateful to my hon. Friend for his support on this issue. As for the costs and benefits of membership, I think the balance of competences review that will be carried out by the Foreign Office will give everyone the opportunity to make their points about which areas of European endeavour are in our interest and which are not. We should allow that debate to take place.

[Mr Crispin Blunt (Reigate) (Con)]

This remarkable negotiating triumph follows hard on the heels of the Prime Minister’s referendum promise which has done so much to improve his negotiating hand to further advance British and European interests in Europe. Will he undertake not to take advice from the Opposition, who told him that he was too isolated in Europe to achieve these objectives and whose MEPs are about to vote in secret against the synthetic posturing of the Leader of the Opposition—one of the things that brings the European Union into such disrepute?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. In November, the shadow Chancellor said that

“David Cameron has failed to persuade other European leaders to deliver the reform of and real terms cut in the Budget”;

and we were accused by the shadow Foreign Secretary of being “isolated and marginalised”; but importantly, the Europe spokesperson said that

“If he does get a good deal for British taxpayers then we will commend him for that”.

Oral Answers to Questions

Crispin Blunt Excerpts

Wednesday 19th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[Miss Smith]

I am afraid the hon. Gentleman is rather mixed up. As I mentioned in my answer, spend with SMEs is rising and we are on track for that 25% target. I am also conscious that the chairman of the FSB said this year that

“central government has raised its game…But more must be done”.

The question is: why did the previous Government do so little?

[Mr Crispin Blunt (Reigate) (Con)]

ONE3ONE Solutions, a recent start-up, is the commercial arm of prison industries. In the interests of us all, the business needs to grow to get prisoners working effectively. What progress is the Minister making to put the organisation on the preferred supplier list for Government contracts, for which it has suitable products and services?

[Miss Smith]

As Members would expect, our prime objective in procurement is value for money for the taxpayer, but I am sympathetic to what my hon. Friend articulates and I will be happy to discuss it further with him and appropriate colleagues.

Debate on the Address

Crispin Blunt Excerpts

Wednesday 9th May 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Llwyd]

I am always in favour, where possible, of putting the powers in the Bill, because many things happen by way of secondary legislation that slip through on the nod, and suddenly we have unintended consequences and law that is not as workable or useful as we might have thought. I agree, therefore, with the hon. Gentleman.

I have heard it said that there will be a power to name and shame. That is one thing that supermarkets, for example, would be concerned about, but equally there must be a power to impose substantial financial penalties. Small financial penalties will not do the office justice; they must be substantial if they are to mean anything at all.

I referred to the dairy industry. The problems are not unique to Wales—they are across the board—but since 1999 the number of Welsh dairy farmers has halved. This week’s tuppence cut by Dairy Crest has wreaked havoc on many people in north, mid and south Wales. It is said that a cut of between 3p and 4p, for example, means a loss of £65 million to the Welsh dairy sector. I would like the EU dairy package on contracts introduced on a compulsory rather than a voluntary basis, and I hope that DEFRA Ministers will hold a full and frank discussion with devolved Ministers on that basis.

This issue does not only concern dairy farmers, however; suppliers in general are being hammered by the unfair contract terms and pressures being applied. I remember seeing several Ministers about this matter, including Lord Bach, who said, candidly, “I need six or seven names and examples of pressure being applied”, but dairy farmers, concerned about being victimised and losing their contracts, were not prepared to put their heads above the parapet. As one said to me, “Half a loaf is better than no loaf at all.” So, there we are. I understand that there will now be a right to complain anonymously.

I will give the House the example of a farmer in the constituency whom I have the privilege to represent who bottles water—the purest water in Wales, apparently. On occasion, I have even drunk it.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Crispin Blunt)]

When desperate.

[Mr Llwyd]

Well, with something else. [Interruption.]

The farmer came to an agreement with one of the large supermarkets. Believe it or not, it came out like this: the supplier was allowed 1.5p profit per litre of water, but the water was sold by the supermarket for more than 80p. He declined to do it. That 1.5p included travelling from mid-Wales across to Shropshire to deliver the water every day. It simply was not worth his while, yet apparently those terms are typical. We need to get to grips with these issues, otherwise all our home producers —of good vegetables, apples and so on—will say, “Well, it’s not worth it. We’re packing up.” That is the last thing we want.