Northern Ireland (Ministers, Elections and Petitions of Concern) Bill

Debate between Claire Hanna and Ian Paisley

Report stage & 3rd reading
Tuesday 26th October 2021 Commons Chamber

[Ian Paisley]

Like the dreary steeples of Fermanagh and Tyrone, we keep coming back to the phrases and mantras mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Upper Bann (Carla Lockhart): “We must support the Belfast agreement, provided it is our interpretation of the Belfast agreement.” The two-faced approach from some hon. Members, who say we must support the Belfast agreement and never change it while tabling amendments to change it, is not lost on anyone back home.

I do not often quote the hon. Member for Belfast South (Claire Hanna), but I agreed with her wholeheartedly when she said that she wishes to support the locked-in sectarianism of the Belfast agreement. Think of it, we are discussing measures that a Member of this Parliament—

[Claire Hanna]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

--- Later in debate ---

[Ian Paisley]

No, I will not. The hon. Lady had a good opportunity to make a speech. It may not have been her finest moment, but she has made a speech and I think I am entitled to take that speech apart, which she has made very easy for me. She wishes to support the locked-in sectarianism of the Belfast agreement, and it is incredible that she is asking this House to do that. That follows closely on the heels of the previous Member for Foyle—

[Claire Hanna]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. If Members are referring to content, they should quote me accurately. I said that the current designation structures, as operated, were locking in sectarianism. Is it appropriate for Members to misquote other Members?

United Kingdom Internal Market Bill

Debate between Claire Hanna and Ian Paisley

Monday 21st September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Claire Hanna (Belfast South) (SDLP)]

I rise to commend to the Committee amendments 46 to 48, amendment 41 and new clause 7, which stand in the name of the hon. Member for North Down (Stephen Farry).

There has been so much invocation of the Good Friday agreement, in favour and against the measures in the Bill, that I think it bears repeating some of what is and is not contained and implied in that generation-defining agreement. Those who have read the agreement will know that it does not really talk all that much about borders, trade and internal markets, because, frankly, the EU had settled all those things, and in 1998 the prospect of either Government choosing to leave the security, opportunity and prosperity of the EU would have been considered insanity.

Violence was the reason for the continuing fortifications. The Good Friday agreement was the document that articulated most clearly the argument, which had been made by John Hume and others for so many years, that violence was neither needed nor justified. It took the gun out of Irish politics and ensured that the purported justification of those behind the violence was addressed. The agreement was then endorsed by the people of Ireland, north and south, in overwhelming numbers, and endorsed by both Governments, as the only way to achieve your politics. It took away the excuse and put peaceful constitutional views to the fore. It meant that Unionists, nationalists and others could have their views with dignity and that we all had a decent pass forward.

The Good Friday agreement does not say much about borders and trade, but it does say a lot about relationships, aspirations, consensus and respect, and I think that those are the values that unfortunately have been most damaged and will be most damaged by the Bill. The declaration that accompanied the agreement—

[Ian Paisley]

Will the hon. Member give way?

--- Later in debate ---

[Claire Hanna]

Do you know what? I will give way, but only once, because for a few years your party held court here, and they were terribly damaging years for Northern Ireland, and it is time that the majority voice, which is against these proposals, was heard.

[Ian Paisley]

I am delighted that the hon. Member has given way. She casts a considerable aspersion on the Members of her party who were here for several years, but who obviously did not do as good a job in the House as she now purports to be doing, but I will leave that thought with her. Her party is in a coalition Government with my party and with Sinn Féin at the present time—obviously her words about co-operation will now ring very true indeed. Given that her party is in that coalition Government with Sinn Féin, is she actually telling the House that she believes that Sinn Féin or others are on the cusp of going back to terrorism because of what is happening here tonight?

[Claire Hanna]

No, obviously I am not. Only somebody with absolutely no understanding or who is so disingenuous would ask the question of where the violence comes from as if just a hope is a good enough reason to ride over a solemn peace treaty. Only somebody who either misunderstands or misdirects people would ask such a disingenuous question, and ask it repeatedly. We know that unfortunately there are many people of different political hues who have always sought to use violence as an excuse. That is why my party and others did the heavy lifting to ensure peace, while your party stood outside, waved placards and did everything it could to thwart the Good Friday agreement. So I will take no lectures or disingenuous questions, thank you very much.

The Good Friday agreement did talk about democratic and agreed arrangements, the democratic process and the primacy of the rule of law. It talked about close co-operation as friendly neighbours and partners in the EU. Each strand of the agreement has been damaged by the last few years, and they will be damaged further by the Bill. Strand 1, which deals with internal relationships in Northern Ireland, is damaged by injecting these binary choices and by trespassing into the devolved field. However, I will not, for reasons of time, go over the points that I and others made last Wednesday evening, about what undermining the devolved settlement might do.

Strand 2, which deals with relationships on the island of Ireland, will be utterly undermined by the creeping borderism that will follow from the Bill and the disruption of the north-south frameworks. Strand 3 deals with the east-west relationships, which clearly have been strained almost to breaking point over the past few years. It is because of the primacy of relationships that barriers to trade and aspiration offend the Good Friday agreement. Those who are seeking to say, “It isn’t written down anywhere, so there is no problem here” need to understand that.

The SDLP profoundly regrets the development of any barrier—east-west; the border in the Irish sea—for reasons of trade and economy, but also because we understand that borders have symbolic meaning to people, and we understand that this is particularly hurtful and egregious to those of a Unionist or British identity.



We have enjoyed, for the last 20 years, interdependence and free movement east, west, north and south, and it is Brexit and these decisions that are forcing the choice. It is not re-fighting the last campaign to remind people that the problem is not the protocol, it is not the EU and it is not uppity Irish nationalists, but it is this Government’s failure to choose between a higher degree of alignment with the EU, which offends the European Research Group, the ability to diverge, which will upset and offend people of a Unionist background, and the nuclear option of forcing a hard border on the island of Ireland. Quite clearly, the last two weeks have shown and give some reassurance that the UK will have no trading partners if that is the course it chooses.