House of Lords Reform Bill

Christopher Pincher Excerpts

Monday 9th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Angela Smith]

The hon. Gentleman makes a good point.

The Bill clearly needs improvement if it is to work effectively to strengthen our democracy and our law-making processes. It needs to be informed by rigorous debate and further consideration of constitutional expertise. It needs scrutinising not only in relation to the issues I have already referred to, but in relation to the size of the proposed Chamber, which was mentioned by a large proportion of the Members who contributed to the debate; the proposed length of terms of representation; the transition period; and the voting system for the election of its Members. The Bill currently recommends a semi-open list system, as opposed to the single transferable vote proposed in the draft Bill. Today, however, we have witnessed a lack of clarity about what the numerous variations of proportional representation mean, so once again the need for thorough debate has been firmly underlined.

The Bill proposes the biggest constitutional change our country has seen since the Parliament Act 1911, which is why we need to take care over its progress—we need to get it right. It would damage our democracy if the House were to force through the Bill without adequate debate and scrutiny—an argument that has asserted itself at every twist and turn of this debate. It was mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Wrexham (Ian Lucas), my right hon. Friend the Member for Stirling (Mrs McGuire), my hon. Friends the Members for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) and for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Tristram Hunt), my right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead (Mr Field), my hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham West and Penge (Jim Dowd) and my right hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough (Mr Blunkett)—to mention just a few.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough pointed out that a range of views are present in this debate. The fact of those views absolutely makes the case for a period of thorough scrutiny. I would particularly mention the right hon. Member for Mid Sussex (Nicholas Soames), who pointed out rightly that Members need to read carefully the comments of the Clerk of the House about the reforms, particularly in relation to Commons primacy. That is a really important point. Members need to acquaint themselves with those comments and concerns before making up their minds about the Bill on Third Reading. Moreover, it would help the Bill if the Commons arrived at a consensus on the way forward by hammering out agreed positions via a process of debate and amendment.

The Opposition welcome reform of the House of Lords, and want to secure its progress and conduct the process constructively. My concluding words are therefore directed at the Deputy Prime Minister, who was asked in a letter sent to him last week by a Member of the other place to show a little more respect for our ermine-clad colleagues:

“If the future of one of the key parts of our British Constitution is to be debated in a responsible way, it is surely important that deliberate factual errors and insulting insinuations should not be part of the debate.”

The House is familiar with the cavalier manner that the Deputy Prime Minister deploys when making his arguments, and we are well accustomed to his tendency to exaggerate to make an argument, but today’s debate has underlined the point made by the other place. For the most part, this debate has been good humoured and civilised. He should respond by curbing his excesses and working with colleagues, not against them.

[Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con)]

The right hon. Member for Tooting (Sadiq Khan) was brilliantly opaque in his view of Labour’s plans for timetabling. Will the hon. Lady be a littler clearer about Labour’s plans for Third Reading? Does she propose to support Third Reading, oppose it or abstain?

[Angela Smith]

The House needs to decide what are the important principles in the Bill. It needs proper discussion, and we have made it clear that we will work with the Government to ensure that progress is made, but we do not believe it appropriate to pre-programme the timetable. We have been absolutely clear on that.

Many colleagues today have had to curtail their comments because of the time pressures, and it is clear that the appetite for further debate is strong. We support the Second Reading of this far-from-perfect Bill but believe that today’s debate has put it firmly on the record that the House does not wish to give the Bill a swift passage into law, as the Deputy Prime Minister suggested earlier. Rather, it wants thoroughly to scrutinise and improve the Bill and make it fit for presentation to the electorate in a referendum. I, with the rest of the House, look forward to tomorrow’s debate.

G20 Summit

Christopher Pincher Excerpts

Monday 25th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The point about what we are saying about the world economy is that, in fact, we are part of the consensus on the need to stop the march to protectionism, to regulate the banks properly, to have credible fiscal plans so that interest rates are kept down, and to have proper monetary activism and structural reforms to deliver growth. That is what the world signed up to at the G20 and it is a consensus that the Labour party is completely out of.

[Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con)]

Given that the Leader of the Opposition seems to have identified the President of France as his special friend, does my right hon. Friend agree that it is worth reminding the right hon. Gentleman of the words of President Hollande, who said that growth cannot be generated by means of further public spending, because that needs to be reined in?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is entirely right—that is exactly what the President of France said. He knows that a credible plan to reduce the deficit is necessary to generate growth in any country, and that one is fatally undermined by the lack of that credibility. It is only the left in this country that thinks we can borrow our way out of debt.

European Council

Christopher Pincher Excerpts

Monday 5th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. The truth is that if we want to get anywhere in Europe, we have to be a bit of a bore about things and keep going back to them again and again and again. Countries across Europe need to look at all the steps we have put in the way of people starting up businesses. There is the venture capital issue, for instance: for every dollar raised in Europe for venture capital, $5 are raised in America. That is yet another area in which Europe needs to do better.

[Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con)]

The Opposition have—entirely co-incidentally, I am sure—tabled a motion for debate in a few minutes’ time on the low carbon economy. Does the Prime Minister agree that the completion of the single energy market—which he has championed and which will create 5 million jobs across the continent—will go a long way towards addressing the concerns in that regard?

[The Prime Minister]

I think it will: I think completing the energy single market is good for jobs and good for growth. It is just disappointing that the Opposition have tabled motions on low carbon, and then they reduce carbon even further by sitting in their offices.

Informal European Council

Christopher Pincher Excerpts

Tuesday 31st January 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

One of the best guarantees is the referendum lock, which we have in place in this country, which this House of Commons passed, which the Labour party opposed and which says that, if we propose any passage of power from Westminster to Brussels, there has to be a referendum. That is absolutely key to protecting our interests and to making sure that future Governments cannot give away powers that they should not.

[Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con)]

The Prime Minister has made clear his determination to secure free trade agreements with, among others, India, but will he agree to pursue with equal vigour similar opportunities in the emerging markets of Africa?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes a very important point. If we look at which continents are going to grow over the next decade, we find that Africa has a very healthy growth rate and that countries such as Nigeria, South Africa, Ghana and others will grow rapidly. We already have very low tariff access from African countries to the European Union, and one thing we ought to try to encourage and look at is a pan-African free trade area, so that more of their trade can take place within Africa and they can have an effective single market, as we do in the European Union.

EU Council

Christopher Pincher Excerpts

Monday 12th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The new organisation outside the EU cannot draw up or implement agreements on financial services or other things that have an impact on the single market. Those things have to be done through the Single Market Council. Of course there will always be difficulties at that Council, where frankly my right hon. Friend the Chancellor has to fight Britain’s corner very hard, but the danger for us was allowing the treaty of the 17 to come into the EU without proper safeguards. That is why we behaved as we did.

[Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con)]

Is my right hon. Friend aware that François Hollande, the front-runner for the French presidency in next year’s elections, has said that if elected he will tear up the accord because it is not right for France? Does that not suggest that there are socialists who appreciate it when Britain stands up for herself? Sadly, they are not our socialists.

[The Prime Minister]

I do not want to get drawn into the French election campaign, because despite reports to the contrary I am still on extremely good terms with my friend Nicolas Sarkozy, as the Libya campaign proved. I will say one thing: at least the Opposition leader in France has told us what he thinks. I can see the Opposition Front Benchers tweeting, blogging and poking for all they are worth, but they still do not have a policy.

Oral Answers to Questions

Christopher Pincher Excerpts

Wednesday 12th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Let me answer the hon. Gentleman directly. We are going to protect the time for that absolutely vital debate. On the issue of MPs’ pensions, it is very clear that we have to show restraint at a time when the rest of the public sector is being asked to show restraint. So because of what happened last night, there will have to be a debate, but it will not eat into the time for the very important debate that he mentioned and which I know many Members care deeply about.

[Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con)]

What action is my right hon. Friend taking to reintroduce rigour into the education system and end the ridiculous situation under the previous Government of 22% of students doing proper academic studies?

[The Prime Minister]

The Education Secretary is doing a superb job of focusing schools on results, including in English and maths, ensuring that we look at the English baccalaureate, which includes the core subjects that employers and colleges really value, and doing some simple and straightforward things that were not done for 13 years, such as ensuring that punctuation and grammar actually count when someone does an exam.

Public Disorder

Christopher Pincher Excerpts

Thursday 11th August 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. Cheshire police gave help to Greater Manchester police and, I think, to other areas as well. I want to reassure his constituents and people throughout the country that this Government, this House, this Parliament are on the side of the law-abiding. What needs to happen is a process of taking back the streets on behalf of the law-abiding, and of demonstrating to the whole country that the guilty will be punished.

[Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend pay tribute to the chief constable and officers of Staffordshire police, who not only kept Staffordshire safe but policed Birmingham and Manchester? Mike Cunningham is one other chief constable who believes that he has the resources now and will have in the future to do the job. Will the Prime Minister commend him?

[The Prime Minister]

I certainly join my hon. Friend in praising Staffordshire police, who provided assistance to the west midlands. Once again, this demonstrates that small forces can not only do a good job in their local communities, but help out others when they are in need.

Public Confidence in the Media and Police

Christopher Pincher Excerpts

Wednesday 20th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. May I remind Members that as a matter of basic courtesy, Members standing and seeking to catch my eye should not simultaneously be fiddling with their electronic devices? I should have thought the point was so obvious as a matter of courtesy, but apparently not.

[Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con)]

Will the Prime Minister ensure that the activities of Damian McBride, the king of smears and spin under Labour, will also form part of the investigation that he undertakes?

[The Prime Minister]

The Opposition do not like hearing about it because they know that they had people working in Downing street whose conduct was absolutely despicable. That is a contrast they cannot avoid.

Phone Hacking

Christopher Pincher Excerpts

Wednesday 13th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is right. We need an all-party approach, as far as possible. Sometimes all-party approaches can become a bit of a conspiracy, so we have to make sure that that is not the case. A basic level of agreement exists about the inquiry, the terms of reference, and the need to change the regulatory system. If we can push forward in that way, there will not be too much regulatory arbitrage, so to speak, which is a danger in such a situation. I propose to keep in close touch with the leader of the Labour party about this.

[Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree with a senior commentator in the Twittersphere who says that people in glass houses should not throw stones?

[The Prime Minister]

I long ago learned my lesson about not saying anything about the Twittersphere for fear of getting the wrong vowel in the wrong place.

Volunteering Bill

Christopher Pincher Excerpts

Friday 10th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Chope]

I agree absolutely with my hon. Friend. I must congratulate the Government and the Chancellor of the Exchequer on raising from 40p to 45p the allowance for volunteer drivers, and also on including the 5p per passenger addition, which means that someone can claim 50p per mile for taking one person to or from hospital and 55p per mile for taking two people. That is an important and useful initiative, but I am not sure—I hope the Minister will have a chance to respond to this point—that under the current law, such volunteers need a CRB check. It is absolute madness if they do.

[Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con)]

Here’s looking at you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Without wishing to give the House the impression that I am a great proponent of pettifogging CRB checks, may I ask my hon. Friend about his proposed declaration certificate? How should somebody who signs such a certificate erroneously be sanctioned, because if there is no sanction, surely there is no point in those certificates?

[Mr Chope]

I am not sure that that is correct, because obviously, making a false statement is potentially an offence. However, my hon. Friend gives me the opportunity to tell the House where I got the idea of the fit and proper person certificate from. I got the idea from none other than Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. You will know about this, Madam Deputy Speaker, because you perhaps invented it when you were a distinguished Treasury Minister.

HMRC decided that people who run or who are trustees of small charities might run off with the funds or take advantage of charitable exemptions under tax law. It therefore introduced a fit and proper persons test and declaration for people who run charities. The test applies essentially to managers, trustees of charities, directors of corporate charities and so on. In a typical smaller local charity, a manager, for the purposes of the fit and proper persons test, could include the chairperson, the treasurer, the secretary or someone on the management committee who has control over expenditure.

The HMRC leaflet on the test states:

“The ‘fit and proper persons’ test exists to ensure that charities,”

community interest associations

“and other organisations entitled to charity tax reliefs are not managed or controlled by individuals who might misuse the valuable tax reliefs the organisation receives. Unfortunately fraudsters have been known to exploit charity tax reliefs so the fit and proper persons test exists to help prevent that”.

What does ‘fit and proper’ mean?

“An individual is ‘fit and proper’ if they ensure that charity funds and tax reliefs are used only for charitable purposes.”

What must a person do to satisfy HMRC that they are a fit and proper person? The guidance states that they must sign a declaration that sets out the name of the organisation, the name of the individual and their role in the organisation. The person must declare that they are not disqualified from acting as a charity trustee; have not been convicted of an offence involving deception or dishonesty; have not been involved in tax fraud; are not an undischarged bankrupt; have not made compositions or arrangements with creditors from which they have not been discharged; have not been removed from serving as a charity trustee in the past; and that they have not been disqualified from serving as a company director. They must also assert that at all times they will seek to ensure that the charity’s funds and tax reliefs are used only for charitable purposes. So that is all right for managers of charities handling probably quite substantial sums of money. The Treasury is saying, “We will take these statements on trust”. If we are to have a responsible society, we have to trust people. People say, “Well, what happens if the person turns out to be a rogue?” Exactly the same thing would happen as happened in the ghastly Plymouth day nursery case or in the case I cited earlier: the person would be brought to justice, although probably not until after a lot of damage had been done.

However many controls and regulations we bring in, we cannot pre-empt the activities of fraudsters, villains, inherent, compulsive liars, paedophiles or whoever. We have to be proportional and say, “What is the benefit of having CRB checks, bearing in mind that they do not prevent somebody who clears one from subsequently going off the rails?” What would be the benefit of not having those checks and having a much simpler system? My Bill, which adopts a simple system rather along the lines of the fit and proper person test for charity trustees, would meet the principle of proportionality. It deals only with volunteers. We are not talking about people engaged in full-time or part-time employment; we are talking about volunteers and people who, by their very nature, want to make a difference and add something to the equation. It is important for society not to deter, but to encourage those volunteers to come forward, so by removing the need for CRB checks, and making it nice and simple and easy, we will promote volunteering, which is the whole purpose of the Bill and volunteering week.