Cost of Living

Debate between Chris Leslie and Alun Cairns

Wednesday 27th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Chris Leslie]

My hon. Friend is correct. The Government are afraid of the energy companies. We are not yet sure why they are so afraid to stand up to the big six, but it is clear that the Chancellor’s solution of simply shifting £100 or so off an energy bill and on to the taxes of all our constituents will not convince people that they have the answers. The switch is so obvious it can be seen in the dark. It is a palliative that merely shunts the costs from a bill payer to a taxpayer. It fails to tackle the root cause of the problem, which, as my hon. Friend has said, is the excessive profiteering of the utility companies. Government Members are going to have to try a lot better than that next week.

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way. He makes an extremely important point on the need to freeze bills, which is largely what has happened over recent years to council taxes in England. In Wales, however, where the Labour party runs the Welsh Government, there have been council tax increases of nearly 9% over recent years. That is a bill that can genuinely be frozen by politicians. Will the hon. Gentleman stand up to the Labour party in Wales to ensure that my constituents are not forced to pay 9% increases in council taxes?

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[Chris Leslie]

I am happy to give way to the hon. Member for Vale of Glamorgan if he wants to explain.

[Alun Cairns]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. The hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty) has inadvertently misled the House in that the quotes attributed to me are wholly inaccurate. I ask him to withdraw what he said.

Financial Services (Banking Reform) Bill

Debate between Chris Leslie and Alun Cairns

Monday 11th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Chris Leslie]

I presume that is almost an apology for the anti-regulatory approaches historically taken by the Conservative party. I do not seem to recall Conservative Members ever saying, “Please, more regulation! Let us have it now. This is insufficient; we must regulate far more firmly.” It does not seem that that was ever part of the lexicon in the approach taken by Conservative Members.

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)]

In the hon. Gentleman’s preamble, he talked about the shifting of powers to the FSA, and I was somewhat taken aback that he called it a step forward. Would he like to repeat the fact that he supported that as a step forward, or would he like to apologise for that move?

[Chris Leslie]

The Conservative party, I think, voted in favour of the creation of the FSA. I think even the Conservative party recognised at the time that moving from self-regulation—[Interruption.] I apologise if I have got that wrong. It may well have been that it opposed the legislation because it introduced statutory regulation. The state of affairs that existed before was self-regulation—the regulatory environment was not there.

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[Chris Leslie]

I disagree. I think that there was a high-risk, high-return culture in the banking sector—we saw it in the United States, and we saw it here—which Government Members fuelled through their deregulatory philosophical approach.

[Alun Cairns]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Multiannual Financial Framework

Debate between Chris Leslie and Alun Cairns

Wednesday 31st October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)]

I accept the difficulties with public finances and the sincerity with which the hon. Gentleman makes his comments, but does he regret the actions of the previous Labour Government, who gave up the rebate?

[Chris Leslie]

The rebate has not been given up; it is still there to be defended. This is a task for the Prime Minister and the Chancellor to achieve, and we will see how they do. The last time we discussed these issues was seven years ago and we are now discussing them at a critical moment ahead of the next seven-year period, so this is when they matter most of all.

Financial Services Bill

Debate between Chris Leslie and Alun Cairns

Monday 23rd April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Chris Leslie]

That is a fair intervention. No, I would not say that they are all the same. There are companies, even those that may for some reason be using this fee charging process, that want to do the right thing, but my point is that that business model has had its time and needs to go. There is a better way, whether it is a for-profit or a non-profit avenue, for debt management consolidation to take place, and that is to tell the creditor that this is a way for them to get some money back, albeit not necessarily the full amount, from those heavily indebted customers who may owe them something, and in exchange for getting something back they have a duty as a creditor to stump up some of the cost for the administration of that consolidation. It is time to end the business model that has a propensity to cause hardship, not in every single case, but in too many cases, and that is why the Opposition believe that this is a perfectly reasonable new clause to bring forward.

New clause 10 concerns mortgages. People may well ask where the problem is at the time being when mortgage rates are at a low level, partly because the Bank of England is printing so much money that we end up with a low base rate. But the Governor of the Bank of England has been warning in a number of reports that this is an unsustainable situation and that over the medium term he expects interest rates to normalise. From the Bank of England’s point of view, whether the normalised interest rate is 4% or 5% is moot, but it is certainly much higher than the current rate.

My anxiety is that many consumers up and down the country might be under the false impression that this is a normal period, but it is not. If the mark-ups that the retail banks charge on the wholesale cost of borrowing are maintained as base rates or LIBOR rise to a more normal level, the mortgage rates that our constituents pay could end up being significantly higher, at 6%, 7% or 8%. I suspect that the difference between the price the banks pay wholesale for their money and the amount they charge customers upfront has been growing and is too wide. As soon as LIBOR creeps up, if that mark-up is maintained, we could be in serious difficulties, which is why the new clause is essential at this time.

This is a stitch-in-time new clause. We have tabled the proposal because we believe that now is a good time to require all the banks to forewarn their customers about a number of possible scenarios so that home owners with mortgages have the information necessary to prepare for them. Often when those of us with mortgages get information from lenders it is a set of retrospective information, for example on how much we have paid to defray the cost of our mortgage. We believe that it is now essential to forewarn customers about what could come in future, because we have to find a way of ending shocks to consumers, especially when changes to standard variable rates can sometimes be made with as little as two weeks’ notice.

[Alun Cairns]

I am trying to follow the hon. Gentleman’s argument, but how on earth could any individual or organisation predict with certainty what will happen in future?

[Chris Leslie]

The hon. Gentleman is right that it is impossible to predict with certainty, but this is about scenario planning and preparedness. He will know that the Governor of the Bank of England has been saying what he regards normalised base rates to be, broadly speaking. Does the hon. Gentleman not think that our constituents, especially those on variable interest rates—this might not apply to all customers with mortgages, some of whom might have fixed rates—ought to be able to see when their rates fluctuate because of the fortunes of the base rate or, as is often the case, the standard variable rate determined by their bank, and does he not think that those banks ought to help their customers plan for the future? If we end up yet again with a cycle in which people find that they cannot make their payments and their homes are repossessed, we will all have those constituents in our surgeries.

Let me give the hon. Gentleman an example. A couple of weeks ago Halifax announced that it would increase its standard variable rate by 0.5% from 1 May. RBS NatWest has done similarly, as have Clydesdale bank, Yorkshire bank and Bank of Ireland. In my view, all those increases are the result not of base rate changes, but of the fact that those banks are looking to repair their balance sheets not by squeezing remuneration and bearing down on the senior executive management costs that we all know they have, but by trying gradually to take a little more money from consumers. That is why we need a warning for customers in these circumstances.

[Alun Cairns]

I fail to understand the logic of the hon. Gentleman’s argument. If someone’s financial position at the time they take out a mortgage is relatively precarious, they probably should not have the mortgage. Furthermore, to take the logic to the next step, surely a fixed rate product would be better for those people and they should not have been on the variable rate product in the first place, so why on earth are we asking banks through additional regulation to make such predictions when it is meaningless in the reality of life?

[Chris Leslie]

We are doing this because the hon. Gentleman and I are here to represent our constituents, some of whom will be on variable rate mortgages in these circumstances. All we are saying is that we want all the banks to warn of the potential impact of rate changes across a range of scenarios. It is about helping customers anticipate what might be around the corner. It is as simple as that. The banks will give all sorts of reasons for increasing their standard variable rates. For example, they claim that costs make it difficult and often cite the special liquidity scheme, which is now beginning to taper off so the taxpayer safety net is beginning to come away, but taking more and more from consumers is in many ways unfair. I think that Lloyds bank recently borrowed many billions from the European Central Bank as part of its long-term refinancing option, so there is cheap money available wholesale for the banks. We have to keep an eye out for the way they sometimes seek to make an excessive profit off the backs of ordinary mortgage customers.

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[Chris Leslie]

In certain circumstances, Parliament should be sovereign. That is an important principle in our constitution. I do not think that regulators should be able to override Parliament, if that is the Minister’s suggestion. I am pretty sure it is not. Ultimately, in certain circumstances, Parliament should be able to make the final decision. That is an important cornerstone of our constitution.

[Alun Cairns]

It would helpful if the hon. Gentleman could outline some of the circumstances in which Parliament should overrule the regulators.

[Chris Leslie]

It is entirely hypothetical. Of course we cannot do that at this stage, but there might be circumstances. I will remember the hon. Gentleman’s intervention for the many years that he will be in Parliament for when the time comes, if it comes, that he disagrees with a particular outcome of a regulation as it affects his constituents.

Amendment 35 talks about the impact of many of the changes within the regulatory system on consumers, particularly those on lower incomes. We believe that the FCA should have enshrined in its objectives a commitment to consider how easily consumers are able to find products that are appropriate to their income, and more broadly, products that provide value for money. In difficult times as incomes are squeezed it is right that consumers feel that they have a regulator that is on their side. If we are creating a genuine consumer champion in the FCA, it is important that it has a set of objectives and values that reflect that, particularly for those on the lowest income. It is a similar argument to that made in the previous group of amendments in respect of the Money Advice Service. We have seen excessive overdraft charges, high interest rates, and charges for hidden services. Those require a genuine consumer champion and this amendment would help to create that.

Amendment 36 would also shift the balance in favour of the consumer. It would introduce what is known as a fiduciary duty of care by authorised persons, by financial services providers, towards the consumers who are their clients. “Fiduciary” means holding in trust, holding in good faith, a concept that would help to rebuild confidence among the public in financial services. There is a serious lack of trust at present that is bad for consumers, providers and society at large. The Bill contains no explicit obligation on firms to avoid conflicts of interest, nor to profit at consumers’ expense without their knowledge and consent, nor to have undivided loyalties and duties of confidentiality to the customer. The pre-legislative scrutiny Committee commented on many of these aspects and recommended that some action be taken. Although the FSA has recently had its treating customers fairly initiative, we do not think that that is enough. We believe that a fiduciary duty of care is necessary, especially in the light of some of the major concerns of mis-selling scandals and the need to learn lessons from those.

Amendments 33 and 34 relate to the costs and expense of establishing the FCA and PRA, splitting the FSA into those component parts. I apologise for rattling through these. We have to minimise unnecessary additional expenses incurred, because ultimately the consumers will pay. The FSA’s budget for 2013-14 has gone up by 15.6%. I accept that the new regulatory system will have some costs involved in that, but the majority of those costs are operational and not necessarily related to the principles of regulation involved. It was a bit of a joke to see in the White Paper the Government say that the running costs under the new arrangements should not be “materially different” in real terms and aggregate from the current FSA. That will not happen. We are talking about extremely significant extra costs.

We suggest that the memorandum between these organisations should contain an estimate of the annual costs involved in administering the FCA and PRA, and compare those to the estimated costs of the administration of the FSA. That is a bit of a crude way of getting a cost comparator, but I would be interested in seeing it. Similarly, amendment 34 talks about minimising the

“unnecessary additional expenses that might be incurred by virtue of the separate administration of the FCA and the PRA, and to maximise any common administrative savings achievable through close co-ordination.”

The PRA is moving to plush offices in Moorgate, leaving vacant space at Canary Wharf, a lease that expires way down the line in 2018. There is a sense in which there is a bit of empire building going on at the Bank of England, which will be responsible for the PRA. The Threadneedle street empire is growing strongly.

Independent Financial Advisers (Regulation)

Debate between Chris Leslie and Alun Cairns

Monday 29th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Chris Leslie]

As I say, this is a good time to debate those matters. There are options that must be explored. We have not bottomed out the debate. Perhaps the Financial Services Authority can consider not necessarily the hon. Gentleman’s suggestion in particular, but why commission changes are not being made across the wider financial services sector. There have been historic problems with mis-selling of products, not solely from an IFA perspective, and I can see why many people feel that these changes are necessary.

I would not counsel hon. Members to take issue with every section of the RDR—many of those who spoke in the debate did not. It is right, for example, that there should be proper clarity between independent and restricted market advisers, and that rather than waiting for the customer to inquire, there should be full disclosure on that up front.

[Alun Cairns]

rose—

[Chris Leslie]

I have only a couple more minutes.

The crux of the matter must be the issue of qualifications—the A-level equivalent threshold for financial advice. Although I understand the move to a QCF level 4 standard, which seems entirely fair, it is sensible that there should be a mechanism to allow some sort of conversion of existing qualifications or existing experience to that new level 4 qualification. I cannot believe it is beyond the wit of the FSA, Ministers and others to find some way of doing that. Hon. Members such as the hon. Member for Meon Valley (George Hollingbery) spoke about how we should look at the grandfathering issue and what options there might be. It is important to move that forward.

[Alun Cairns]

rose—

[Chris Leslie]

I should like to conclude because I want the Minister to be able to explain in a way that he did not necessarily do in the first flush of debate on the topic in Westminster Hall, and possibly reflect the views of the vast number of Conservative Members. I am still perplexed that the Financial Secretary to the Treasury chose that McDonalds diploma analogy. Perhaps he will reflect on that and recognise that some IFAs were slightly astounded by that reflection on their professional integrity. He might want to choose his words more carefully.

It is important that parliamentary accountability should be voiced. The more I reflect on these financial services policy issues, the more it strikes me that there is a democratic deficit. No, we do not want to be embroiled in the day-to-day operational issues of regulation, but policy is policy and we are accountable for that. Perhaps, as my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds East (Mr Mudie) suggested, we can return to the issue when we come to the FSA reform Bill and discuss amendments to that. Hon. Members will log and remember today’s debate and we can come to that later on in the day.

It is a shame that there is no motion tonight on the issue. It would have been useful for Members to express the formal position of the House of Commons on the matter. This is a time for the Minister to listen to the debate and perhaps reflect carefully on the measured and worthwhile comments that have been made by hon. Members across the Chamber.