Employment Rights Bill (Twenty First sitting)

Debate between Chris Law and Justin Madders

Committee stage
Thursday 16th January 2025 Public Bill Committees

[Justin Madders]

Let me start by reaffirming our strong view that every worker has the full right to protection under the laws of this country. That includes migrant workers, as is clear from our plan to make work pay, which recognises that particularly vulnerable sectors are open to abuse from unscrupulous employers. The immigration framework is an important part of ensuring that those who come to this country under visas and sponsorship are protected and that modern slavery abuse is tackled.

Sponsorship is a privilege that comes with certain responsibilities for sponsors to ensure that they adhere to employment rights in the United Kingdom. They must have full responsibility for the work that workers are conducting, and in all cases they must ensure that those they sponsor are paid appropriately and that they act in compliance with relevant legislation. As my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh East and Musselburgh says, a lot of work is ongoing in this area, particularly from the Home Office, which recently announced that it would ban from future sponsorship any business found guilty of serious employment law breaches, including failing to pay the national minimum wage.

We are committed to strengthening the enforcement of rights more broadly through the fair work agency. The Committee has heard plenty of evidence that the current system of enforcement is fragmented. Unfortunately, as we know, that often means that not everyone gets the protection that they should have. One of the essential functions of the new fair work agency will be to produce a strategy setting out its assessment of the scale and nature of non-compliance with labour market rules. This is to ensure that the risks of abuse across all sectors and groups of workers are properly understood and captured. In producing the strategy, the fair work agency will need to consult with an advisory board made up of trade unions, business and independent experts. That will ensure that we get a broad view of the gaps and risks in the labour market.

The hon. Member for Dundee Central suggests that this area is a blind spot for the Government. I can assure him that it is not. I have had conversations with the Director of Labour Market Enforcement about the issue, and plenty of work is under way at the Home Office. The hon. Member need only consider the Low Pay Commission’s report to see that the issue is clearly on our radar. An additional report would not add anything to the work that is already under way. I therefore ask him to withdraw his new clause.

[Chris Law]

I appreciate the comments that have been made in this short debate. Just to be clear, the new clause is about issues that are not currently protected under the Modern Slavery Act 2015 and are often under-reported. I welcome the Minister’s comments about the fair work agency and the recent Low Pay Commission report, but I must ask about the timeframe. My suggestion—I will try to work with him on this—is that the timeframe be six months beyond the passing of the Bill, so that we can get decisions made. Perhaps the Secretary of State could let us know what kind of timeframe we are talking about, to give us peace of mind that action will be taken for those who are most vulnerable and have come here from overseas. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

New Schedule 1

Warrants under Part 5: further provision

“Part 1

Application of this Schedule

1 This Schedule applies in relation to—

(a) applications for warrants under section (Power to enter dwelling subject to warrant) or 83, and

(b) warrants issued under section (Power to enter dwelling subject to warrant) or 83.

Part 2

Warrants: applications and safeguards

Applications for warrants

2 (1) Where an enforcement officer applies for a warrant, the officer must—

(a) state the ground on which the application is made,

(b) state the provision of this Act under which the warrant would be issued,

(c) specify the premises which it is desired to enter, and

(d) identify, so far as is practicable, the purpose for which entry is desired.

(2) An application for a warrant must be made without notice and must be supported by an information in writing or, in Scotland, evidence on oath.

(3) The officer must answer on oath any question that the justice hearing the application asks the officer.

Safeguards in connection with power of entry conferred by warrant

3 A warrant authorises an entry on one occasion only.

4 (1) A warrant must specify—

(a) the name of the person who applies for it,

(b) the date on which it is issued,

(c) the provision of this Act under which it is issued, and

(d) the premises to be entered.

(2) A warrant must identify, so far as is practicable, the purpose for which entry is desired.

5 (1) Two copies are to be made of a warrant.

(2) In the case of a warrant issued in electronic form, the copies must be clearly marked as copies.

(3) In the case of a warrant issued otherwise than in electronic form, the copies must be clearly certified as copies.

Part 3

Execution of warrants

Warrant to be executed within three months

6 Execution of a warrant must be within three months from the date of its issue.

Time of entry

7 Execution of a warrant must be at a reasonable time, unless it appears to the officer executing it that there are grounds for suspecting that the purpose of entering the premises may be frustrated if the officer seeks to enter at a reasonable time.

Evidence of authority etc

8 (1) Where the occupier of premises to be entered under a warrant is present at the time when an enforcement officer seeks to execute the warrant, the following requirements must be satisfied—

(a) the officer must produce to the occupier documentary evidence of the fact that the officer is an enforcement officer;

(b) if the officer is asked for it, the occupier must be told the officer’s name;

(c) the officer must produce the warrant to the occupier;

(d) the officer must supply the occupier with a copy of the warrant that is marked or certified as a copy in accordance with paragraph 5.

(2) Where—

(a) the occupier of premises to be entered under a warrant is not present when an enforcement officer seeks to execute it, but

(b) some other person who appears to the officer to be in charge of the premises is present,

sub-paragraph (1) has effect as if any reference to the occupier were a reference to that other person.

(3) If there is no person present who appears to the enforcement officer to be in charge of the premises, the officer must leave a copy of the warrant, marked or certified as a copy in accordance with paragraph 5, in a prominent place on the premises.

Securing premises after entry

9 An enforcement officer who enters premises under a warrant must take reasonable steps to ensure that when the officer leaves the premises they are as secure as they were before the officer entered.

Return and retention of warrants

10 (1) A warrant which—

(a) has been executed, or

(b) has not been executed within the time authorised for its execution,

must be returned to the appropriate person.

(2) For the purposes of sub-paragraph (1) the appropriate person is—

(a) in the case of a warrant issued in England and Wales, the designated officer for the local justice area in which the justice was acting when the warrant was issued;

(b) in the case of a warrant issued in Scotland by a justice of the peace, the clerk of the justice of the peace court in the sheriffdom for which the justice of the peace was appointed;

(c) in the case of a warrant issued in Scotland by a sheriff or a summary sheriff, the sheriff clerk;

(d) in the case of a warrant issued in Northern Ireland, the clerk of petty sessions.

(3) A warrant that is returned under this paragraph must be retained by the person to whom it is returned for a period of 12 months.

(4) If during that period the occupier of the premises to which the warrant relates asks to inspect it, the occupier must be allowed to do so.”—(Justin Madders.)

This new Schedule makes further provision about applications for, and the execution of, warrants under Part 5.

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Schedule 2

Increase in time limits for making claims

“Safety Representatives and Safety Committees Regulations 1977

1 (1) In regulation 11 of the Safety Representatives and Safety Committees Regulations 1977 (S.I. 1977/500) (time off for safety representatives), in paragraph (2), for ‘three’, in both places it occurs, substitute ‘six’.

(2) In regulation 12 of those Regulations—

(a) in paragraph (2), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (3), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(c) in paragraph (4), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992

2 (1) The Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 is amended as follows.

(2) In section 66 (unjustifiable discipline by union), in subsection (2)(a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(3) In section 68A (unauthorised deduction of union subscriptions), in subsection (1)(a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(4) In section 70C (collective bargaining: obligations relating to training), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(5) In section 87 (unlawful deduction of contributions to political fund), in subsection (2)(a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(6) In section 139 (refusal of employment on grounds related to union membership), in subsection (1)(a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(7) In section 145C (inducements), in subsection (1)(a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(8) In section 147 (detriment for trade union activities), in subsection (1)(a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(9) In section 171 (time off for trade union activities), in subsection (1)(a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(10) In section 189 (consultation in collective redundancy), in subsection (5)—

(a) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (c), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(11) In section 192 (remuneration under protective award), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(12) In paragraph 157 of Schedule A1 (detriment in relation to trade union recognition), in sub-paragraph (1)(a), for ‘3’ substitute ‘six’.

Pension Schemes Act 1993

3 In section 126 of the Pension Schemes Act 1993 (unpaid pension contributions), in subsection (2), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

Employment Rights Act 1996

4 (1) The Employment Rights Act 1996 is amended as follows.

(2) In section 11 (written statements), in subsection (4)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(3) In section 23 (protection of wages)—

(a) in subsection (2), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in subsection (4), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(4) In section 27N (information relating to tips etc)—

(a) in subsection (2), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in subsection (3), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(5) In section 34 (guarantee payments), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(6) In section 48 (detriment in employment), in subsection (3)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(7) In section 51 (time off for public duties), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(8) In section 54 (time off following redundancy), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(9) In section 57 (time off for ante-natal care), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(10) In section 57ZC (time off for ante-natal care: agency workers), in subsection (3)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(11) In section 57ZF (time off to accompany to ante-natal appointment), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(12) In section 57ZH (time off to accompany to ante-natal appointment: agency workers), in subsection (3)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(13) In section 57ZM (time off to attend adoption appointments), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(14) In section 57ZQ (time off to attend adoption appointments: agency workers), in subsection (3)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(15) In section 57B (time off for dependants), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(16) In section 60 (time off for pension scheme trustees), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(17) In section 63 (time off for employee representatives), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(18) In section 63C (time off for study or training), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(19) In section 63I (requests in relation to study or training), in subsection (5)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(20) In section 70 (rights following suspension from work)—

(a) in subsection (2)—

(i) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(ii) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in subsection (5)—

(i) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(ii) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(21) In section 70A (rights of agency worker where supply is ended on maternity grounds)—

(a) in subsection (2)—

(i) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(ii) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in subsection (5)—

(i) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(ii) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(22) In section 80 (parental leave), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(23) In section 80H (right to request flexible working), in subsection (5)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(24) In section 80N (carer’s leave), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(25) In section 111 (unfair dismissal), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(26) In section 188 (rights on insolvency of employer), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

Health and Safety (Consultation with Employees) Regulations 1996

5 (1) In paragraph 3 of Schedule 2 to the Health and Safety (Consultation with Employees) Regulations 1996 (S.I. 1996/1513) (time off for representatives of employee safety etc), for ‘three’, in both places it occurs, substitute ‘six’.

(2) In paragraph 3A of that Schedule—

(a) in sub-paragraph (2), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in sub-paragraph (3), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(c) in sub-paragraph (4), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

Working Time Regulations 1998

6 In regulation 30 of the Working Time Regulations 1998 (S.I. 1998/1833) (rights as to working time), in paragraph (2)—

(a) in sub-paragraph (a), for the words from ‘three months’ to ‘six months)’ substitute ‘six months’;

(b) in sub-paragraph (b), omit ‘three or, as the case may be,’.

National Minimum Wage Act 1998

7 In section 11 of the National Minimum Wage Act 1998 (access to records)—

(a) in subsection (3), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in subsection (4), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

Employment Relations Act 1999

8 In section 11 of the Employment Relations Act 1999 (right to be accompanied), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

Transnational Information and Consultation of Employees Regulations 1999

9 (1) In regulation 27 of the Transnational Information and Consultation of Employees Regulations 1999 (S.I. 1999/3323) (time off for members of a European Works Council etc)—

(a) in the heading, for ‘tribunals’ substitute ‘employment tribunals in Great Britain’;

(b) in paragraph (1), for the words from ‘complaint,’ to ‘, that’ substitute ‘complaint to an employment tribunal in Great Britain that’;

(c) in paragraph (2)—

(i) in sub-paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(ii) in sub-paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(d) omit paragraph (2B).

(2) In the heading of regulation 27A of those Regulations (extension of time limit to facilitate conciliation before institution of proceedings), at the end insert ‘in Great Britain’.

(3) After regulation 27A of those Regulations insert—

‘Right to time off: complaints to industrial tribunals in Northern Ireland

(1) An employee may present a complaint to an industrial tribunal in Northern Ireland that the employee’s employer–

(a) has unreasonably refused to permit the employee to take time off as required by regulation 25; or

(b) has failed to pay the whole or any part of any amount to which the employee is entitled under regulation 26.

(2) A tribunal shall not consider a complaint under this regulation unless it is presented–

(a) before the end of the period of three months beginning with the day on which the time off was taken or on which it is alleged the time off should have been permitted; or

(b) within such further period as the tribunal considers reasonable in a case where it is satisfied that it was not reasonably practicable for the complaint to be presented before the end of that period of three months.

(3) Regulation 27B (extension of time limit to facilitate conciliation before institution of proceedings in Northern Ireland) applies for the purposes of paragraph (2).

(4) Where a tribunal finds a complaint under this regulation well-founded, the tribunal shall make a declaration to that effect.

(5) If the complaint is that the employer has unreasonably refused to permit the employee to take time off, the tribunal shall also order the employer to pay to the employee an amount equal to the remuneration to which the employee would have been entitled under regulation 26 if the employer had not refused.

(6) If the complaint is that the employer has failed to pay the employee the whole or part of any amount to which the employee is entitled under regulation 26, the tribunal shall also order the employer to pay to the employee the amount which it finds due to the employee.’

(4) In regulation 27B of those Regulations (extension of time limit to facilitate conciliation before institution of proceedings in Northern Ireland)—

(a) in paragraph (2), for ‘27(2)(a)’ substitute ‘27AA(2)(a)’;

(b) in paragraph (3), for ‘27(2)(a)’ substitute ‘27AA(2)(a)’;

(c) in paragraph (4), for ‘27(2)(b)’ substitute ‘27AA(2)(b)’.

Merchant Shipping (Working Time: Inland Waterways) Regulations 2003

10 In regulation 18 of the Merchant Shipping (Working Time: Inland Waterways) Regulations 2003 (S.I. 2003/3049) (merchant shipping: rights as to working time), in paragraph (2)—

(a) in sub-paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in sub-paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

Civil Aviation (Working Time) Regulations 2004

11 In regulation 18 of the Civil Aviation (Working Time) Regulations 2004 (S.I. 2004/756) (civil aviation: rights as to working time), in paragraph (2)—

(a) in sub-paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in sub-paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

Fishing Vessels (Working Time: Sea-fishermen) Regulations 2004

12 In regulation 19 of the Fishing Vessels (Working Time: Sea-fishermen) Regulations 2004 (S.I. 2004/1713) (fishing vessels: rights to rest and leave), in paragraph (2)—

(a) in sub-paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in sub-paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006

13 (1) The Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006 (S.I. 2006/246) are amended as follows.

(2) In regulation 12 (notification of employee liability information), in paragraph (2)—

(a) in sub-paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in sub-paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(3) In regulation 15 (information and consultation requirements), in paragraph (12)—

(a) in the words before sub-paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in the words after sub-paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

Cross-border Railway Services (Working Time) Regulations 2008

14 In regulation 17 of the Cross-border Railway Services (Working Time) Regulations 2008 (S.I. 2008/1660) (cross-border railway services: rights as to working time), in paragraph (2)—

(a) in sub-paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in sub-paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

European Public Limited-Liability Company (Employee Involvement) (Great Britain) Regulations 2009

15 In regulation 28 of the European Public Limited-Liability Company (Employee Involvement) (Great Britain) Regulations 2009 (S.I. 2009/2401) (time off for members of special negotiating body etc), in paragraph (2)—

(a) in sub-paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in sub-paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

Agency Workers Regulations 2010

16 In regulation 18 of the Agency Workers Regulations 2010 (S.I. 2010/93) (rights of agency workers), in paragraph (4), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

Equality Act 2010

17 In section 123 of the Equality Act 2010 (discrimination etc at work), in subsection (1)(a), for “3” substitute “6”.

Merchant Shipping (Maritime Labour Convention) (Hours of Work) Regulations 2018

18 In regulation 26 of the Merchant Shipping (Maritime Labour Convention) (Hours of Work) Regulations 2018 (S.I. 2018/58) (rights of seafarers to leave), in paragraph (6), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.”—(Justin Madders.)

This new Schedule would increase time limits for making claims in employment tribunals (and, in certain cases, industrial tribunals in Northern Ireland) from three months to six months.

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Schedule 3

Seafarers’ wages and working conditions

“Amendment of Seafarers’ Wages Act 2023

1 The Seafarers’ Wages Act 2023 (“the Act”) is amended in accordance with paragraphs 2 to 23.

Part 1 of the Act: relevant services

2 For the italic heading before section 1 substitute—

‘Part 1

Relevant services’.

3 In section 1 (services to which this Act applies)—

(a) for the heading substitute ‘Relevant services’;

(b) in subsection (1), for ‘This Act applies to’ substitute ‘In this Act, “relevant service” means’;

(c) in subsection (2), for ‘this Act does not apply to’ substitute ‘“relevant service” does not include’;

(d) for subsection (4) substitute—

‘(4) In this Act, “ship”—

(a) includes—

(i) any kind of vessel used in navigation, and

(ii) hovercraft;

(b) includes a ship which is registered in a State other than the United Kingdom.’

Chapter 1 of Part 2 of the Act: non-qualifying seafarers

4 After section 1 insert—

‘Part 2

Remuneration of seafarers

Chapter 1

Non-qualifying seafarers’.

5 In section 2 (non-qualifying seafarers), in paragraph (a), for ‘service to which this Act applies’ substitute ‘relevant service’.

Chapter 2 of Part 2 of the Act: national minimum wage equivalence declarations

6 For the italic heading before section 3 substitute—

‘Chapter 2

National minimum wage equivalence declarations’.

7 In section 3 (request for declaration)—

(a) in the heading, after ‘for’ insert ‘equivalence’;

(b) in subsection (1)—

(i) for ‘Act applies’ substitute ‘Chapter applies (see subsection (4A))’;

(ii) at the end insert ‘(see section 19 for the meaning of “relevant year”)’;

(c) after subsection (4) insert—

‘(4A) This Chapter applies to a relevant service, subject to provision made by remuneration regulations in reliance on section 4A(6).’;

(d) omit subsections (5) and (6).

8 In section 4 (nature of declaration)—

(a) in the heading, after ‘of’ insert ‘equivalence’;

(b) after subsection (5) insert—

‘(5A) For the meaning of “UK work”, see section 19.

(5B) For the meaning of “national minimum wage equivalent”, see section 4D(1).’;

(c) omit subsections (6) to (10).

Chapters 3 and 4 of Part 2 of the Act: remuneration regulations and declarations

9 After section 4 insert—

‘Chapter 3

Remuneration regulations and declarations

Remuneration regulations

4A Remuneration regulations

(1) Regulations may specify requirements relating to the remuneration of non-qualifying seafarers in respect of their work carried out in relation to the provision of a relevant service (whether or not in the territorial waters of the United Kingdom).

(2) In this Act, regulations under subsection (1) are referred to as “remuneration regulations”.

(3) Remuneration regulations may relate to remuneration in respect of only some of the work carried out in relation to the provision of a relevant service, and may frame such provision by reference to the waters in which the work is carried out or in any other way.

(4) Remuneration regulations may apply to—

(a) all relevant services, or

(b) one or more relevant services of a specified description.

(5) For the purposes of subsection (4)(b), a service may be described by reference to (among other things) the route operated by the service.

(6) Remuneration regulations may provide that Chapter 2 does not apply to any extent to a relevant service to which the regulations apply.

Remuneration declarations

4B Request for remuneration declaration

(1) Subsection (2) applies where a harbour authority has reasonable grounds to believe that ships providing a service to which remuneration regulations apply will enter, or have entered, its harbour on at least—

(a) 120 occasions, or

(b) if remuneration regulations specify a higher number in relation to services of a specified description and the service is of that description, that higher number of occasions,

during a relevant year (see section 19 for the meaning of “relevant year”).

(2) The harbour authority must, within such period as is determined by regulations under this subsection, request that the operator of the service provide the authority with a remuneration declaration in respect of the service for the relevant year.

(3) The duty under subsection (2) is subject to any direction given by the Secretary of State under section 16(1)(a).

(4) A harbour authority which fails to comply with subsection (2) is guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction—

(a) in England and Wales, to a fine, or

(b) in Scotland and Northern Ireland, to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale.

4C Nature of remuneration declaration

(1) A remuneration declaration in respect of a service for a relevant year is a declaration within any of subsections (2) to (5).

(2) A declaration is within this subsection if it is provided before the beginning of the relevant year and it is to the effect that—

(a) in the relevant year there will be no non-qualifying seafarers working on ships providing the service, or

(b) in the relevant year non-qualifying seafarers working on ships providing the service will be remunerated in respect of their work in relation to the service in accordance with the remuneration regulations that apply in relation to them.

(3) A declaration is within this subsection if it is provided during the relevant year and it is to the effect that—

(a) in what remains of the relevant year there will be no non-qualifying seafarers working on ships providing the service, or

(b) in what remains of the relevant year non-qualifying seafarers working on ships providing the service will be remunerated in respect of their work in relation to the service in accordance with the remuneration regulations that apply in relation to them.

(4) A declaration is within this subsection if it is provided during the relevant year and it is to the effect that—

(a) in so much of the relevant year as has already occurred—

(i) there have been no non-qualifying seafarers working on ships providing the service, or

(ii) non-qualifying seafarers working on ships providing the service have been remunerated in respect of their work in relation to the service in accordance with the remuneration regulations that apply in relation to them, and

(b) in what remains of the relevant year—

(i) there will be no non-qualifying seafarers working on ships providing the service, or

(ii) non-qualifying seafarers working on ships providing the service will be remunerated in respect of their work in relation to the service in accordance with the remuneration regulations that apply in relation to them.

(5) A declaration is within this subsection if it is provided after the end of the relevant year and it is to the effect that—

(a) in the relevant year there were no non-qualifying seafarers working on ships providing the service, or

(b) in the relevant year non-qualifying seafarers working on ships providing the service were remunerated in respect of their work in relation to the service in accordance with the remuneration regulations that apply in relation to them.

Chapter 4

Chapters 2 and 3: supplementary regulations

4D Regulations about national minimum wage equivalent etc

(1) For the purposes of this Part, the national minimum wage equivalent is an hourly rate specified in regulations.

(2) Regulations may make provision for determining for the purposes of this Part—

(a) the hourly rate at which a non-qualifying seafarer is remunerated in any period in respect of any work, and

(b) whether, or the extent to which, a non-qualifying seafarer’s work in relation to a relevant service is UK work.

(3) Regulations under subsection (2)(a) may in particular make—

(a) any provision referred to in section 2(2) to (6) of the National Minimum Wage Act 1998;

(b) provision relating to currency conversion.

(4) Subsection (5) applies for the purposes of—

(a) section 4, and

(b) remuneration regulations that are framed by reference to the national minimum wage equivalent.

(5) The Secretary of State must in making regulations under this section seek to secure that a non-qualifying seafarer is remunerated at a rate equal to the national minimum wage equivalent only if their remuneration is in all the circumstances broadly equivalent to the remuneration they would receive if they qualified for the national minimum wage.’

Part 3 of the Act: seafarers’ working conditions

10 After section 4D (inserted by paragraph 9 of this Schedule) insert—

‘Part 3

Seafarers’ working conditions

Safe working regulations

4E Safe working regulations

(1) In this Part, “seafarer” means a person who works on a ship providing a relevant service.

(2) Regulations may specify conditions relating to the working pattern and rest requirements of seafarers who carry out work relating to the provision of a relevant service, including conditions about—

(a) their maximum periods of work in a specified period;

(b) their minimum periods of rest in a specified period.

(3) Regulations may make provision for the purpose of managing and mitigating risks arising from fatigue suffered by seafarers when carrying out their work relating to the provision of a relevant service.

(4) Regulations under subsection (3) may, among other things—

(a) require the operator of a relevant service to produce a plan to manage and mitigate risks arising from fatigue suffered by seafarers when carrying out their work relating to the provision of the service (a “fatigue management plan”);

(b) make provision about the contents of such a plan by reference to a specified document as amended from time to time.

(5) Regulations may make provision for and in connection with the training of seafarers who carry out work relating to the provision of a relevant service, for the purpose of ensuring—

(a) the safety of the ship on which they work,

(b) the safety of things on the ship, or

(c) the health or safety of persons on the ship.

(6) In this Act, regulations under subsection (2), (3) or (5) are referred to as “safe working regulations”.

(7) Safe working regulations may impose requirements on the operator of a relevant service.

(8) Safe working regulations may apply to—

(a) all relevant services, or

(b) one or more relevant services of a specified description.

(9) For the purposes of subsection (8)(b), a service may be described by reference to (among other things) the route operated by the service.

Safe working declarations

4F Request for safe working declaration

(1) Subsection (2) applies where a harbour authority has reasonable grounds to believe that ships providing a service to which safe working regulations apply will enter, or have entered, its harbour on at least—

(a) 120 occasions, or

(b) if safe working regulations specify a higher number in relation to services of a specified description and the service is of that description, that higher number of occasions,

during a relevant year (see section 19 for the meaning of “relevant year”).

(2) The harbour authority must, within such period as is determined by regulations under this subsection, request that the operator of the service provide the authority with a safe working declaration in respect of the service for the relevant year.

(3) The duty under subsection (2) is subject to any direction given by the Secretary of State under section 16(1)(a).

(4) A harbour authority which fails to comply with subsection (2) is guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction—

(a) in England and Wales, to a fine, or

(b) in Scotland and Northern Ireland, to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale.

4G Nature of safe working declaration

(1) A safe working declaration in respect of a service for a relevant year is a declaration within any of subsections (2) to (5).

(2) A declaration is within this subsection if it is provided before the beginning of the relevant year and it is to the effect that the safe working conditions will be met in relation to the service in the relevant year.

(3) A declaration is within this subsection if it is provided during the relevant year and it is to the effect that the safe working conditions will be met in relation to the service in what remains of the relevant year.

(4) A declaration is within this subsection if it is provided during the relevant year and it is to the effect that—

(a) the safe working conditions have been met in relation to the service in so much of the relevant year as has already occurred, and

(b) the safe working conditions will be met in relation to the service in what remains of the relevant year.

(5) A declaration is within this subsection if it is provided after the end of the relevant year and it is to the effect that the safe working conditions were met in relation to the service in the relevant year.

(6) For the purposes of this section the safe working conditions are met in relation to a service at a particular time if at that time—

(a) the service is operated in compliance with regulations under section 4E(2) or (3) that apply to the service,

(b) the service is operated in compliance with a fatigue management plan that is required for the service by regulations under section 4E(3) (see section 4E(4)), and

(c) the service is operated in compliance with regulations under section 4E(5) that apply to the service.

(7) References in subsection (6) to the operation of a service include references to its operation outside the territorial waters of the United Kingdom.’

Part 4 of the Act: enforcement of Parts 2 and 3

11 After section 4G (inserted by paragraph 10 of this Schedule) insert—

‘Part 4

Enforcement of Parts 2 and 3

Offence of operating service inconsistently with declaration’.

12 In section 5 (offence of operating service inconsistently with declaration)—

(a) in subsection (1)—

(i) for ‘service to which this Act applies’ substitute ‘relevant service’;

(ii) in paragraph (a), for ‘an equivalence declaration’ substitute ‘a declaration’;

(b) in subsections (2), (3) and (4), omit ‘equivalence’.

13 (1) Section 6 (imposition of surcharges: failure to provide declaration in time) is amended as follows.

(2) In subsection (1)(a)—

(a) for ‘service to which this Act applies’ substitute ‘relevant service’;

(b) for ‘an equivalence declaration’ substitute ‘a declaration’.

(3) In subsection (1)(b), for ‘an equivalence declaration’ substitute ‘the requested declaration’.

(4) In subsection (2)(b)(ii), for ‘an equivalence declaration’ substitute ‘the requested declaration’.

(5) In subsection (3)(b)(ii), for ‘an equivalence declaration’ substitute ‘the requested declaration’.

(6) In subsection (5)(a), for ‘an equivalence declaration’ substitute ‘the requested declaration’.

(7) In subsection (5)(b), for ‘section 4(4) or (5).’ substitute ‘—

(i) section 4(4) or (5),

(ii) section 4C(4) or (5), or

(iii) section 4G(4) or (5),

(whichever applies).’

(8) In subsection (6)—

(a) for ‘an equivalence declaration’ substitute ‘a declaration’;

(b) in the definition of ‘prescribed period’, for ‘3(5)(a)’ substitute ‘16A(1)(a)’;

(c) in the definition of ‘prescribed form and manner’, for ‘3(5)(b) and (c)’ substitute ‘16A(1)(b) and (c)’.

14 In section 7 (imposition of surcharges: in-year declaration that is prospective only), in subsection (1)—

(a) in paragraph (a)—

(i) for ‘service to which this Act applies’ substitute ‘relevant service’;

(ii) for ‘an equivalence declaration’ substitute ‘a declaration’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘3(5)’ substitute ‘16A(1)’;

(c) in paragraph (c), for the words from ‘within subsection (3)’ to the end substitute ‘—

(i) within subsection (3) of section 4 (and not also within subsection (4) of that section),

(ii) within subsection (3) of section 4C (and not also within subsection (4) of that section), or

(iii) within subsection (3) of section 4G (and not also within subsection (4) of that section),

(whichever applies).’

15 (1) Section 8 (imposition of surcharges: operating inconsistently with declaration) is amended as follows.

(2) In subsection (1)(a)—

(a) for ‘service to which this Act applies” substitute ‘relevant service’;

(b) for ‘an equivalence declaration’ substitute ‘a declaration’.

(3) In subsection (3), after ‘equivalence declaration’ insert ‘, remuneration declaration or safe working declaration (as the case may be)’;

(4) In subsection (4)(a)—

(a) for ‘service to which this Act applies’ substitute ‘relevant service’;

(b) for ‘an equivalence declaration’ substitute ‘a declaration’.

(5) In subsection (6), after ‘equivalence declaration’ insert ‘, remuneration declaration or safe working declaration (as the case may be)’.

16 In section 11 (refusal of harbour access for failure to pay surcharge), in subsection (1), for ‘service to which this Act applies’ substitute ‘relevant service’.

17 (1) Section 12 (provision of information by operators) is amended as follows.

(2) In subsection (1)—

(a) for ‘service to which this Act applies’ substitute ‘relevant service’;

(b) in paragraphs (a) and (b), for ‘an equivalence declaration’ substitute ‘a declaration’.

(3) In subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (b), at the beginning insert ‘for the purposes of Part 2,’;

(b) after paragraph (b) insert—

‘(c) for the purposes of Part 3—

(i) information relating to the working pattern, working conditions or training of persons working on ships providing the service;

(ii) a fatigue management plan produced by the operator of the service (see section 4E(4)(a)).’

(4) In subsection (5), for ‘service to which this Act applies’ substitute ‘relevant service’.

18 In section 13 (provision of information by harbour authorities), in subsection (2)(b), omit ‘equivalence’.

19 In section 14 (inspections), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘service to which this Act applies’ substitute ‘relevant service’;

(b) in paragraphs (a) and (b), for ‘an equivalence declaration’ substitute ‘a declaration’.

Part 5 of the Act: general and final provisions

20 After section 15 insert—

‘Part 5

General and final provisions’.

21 After section 16 insert—

‘16A Regulations about declarations

(1) Regulations may make provision—

(a) as to the period within which declarations are to be provided;

(b) as to the wording of declarations and the form in which they are to be provided;

(c) as to the manner in which declarations are to be provided.

(2) Regulations under subsection (1)(b) may specify a single form combining different kinds of declarations (but a requirement to provide a declaration in such a form does not require an operator of a service to provide a declaration which a harbour authority has not requested the operator to provide).’

22 In section 17 (regulations)—

(a) in the heading, at the end insert ‘: general’;

(b) in subsection (2)(a), for sub-paragraph (i) (but not the ‘or’ after it) substitute—

‘(i) relevant service,’.

23 (1) Section 19 (general interpretation) is amended as follows.

(2) After the definition of ‘the data protection legislation’ insert—

‘“declaration” (without more) means—

(a) an equivalence declaration,

(b) a remuneration declaration, or

(c) a safe working declaration;’.

(3) Omit the definition of ‘national minimum wage equivalent’.

(4) In the definition of ‘operator’, for ‘service to which this Act applies’ substitute ‘relevant service’.

(5) After the definition of ‘operator’ insert—

‘“relevant service” has the meaning given by section 1;’.

(6) In the definition of ‘relevant year’, for ‘has the meaning given by section 3(6);’ substitute ‘means—

(a) the period of 12 months beginning with a date specified in regulations, and

(b) each successive period of 12 months;’.

(7) After the definition of ‘relevant year’ insert—

‘“remuneration declaration” has the meaning given by section 4C(1);

“remuneration regulations” has the meaning given by section 4A(2);

“safe working declaration” has the meaning given by section 4G(1);

“safe working regulations” has the meaning given by section 4E(6);’.

(8) In the definition of ‘UK work’, for ‘has the meaning given by section 4(10)’ substitute ‘means work which is carried out in the United Kingdom or its territorial waters’.

Amendment of title of the Act

24 (1) The Seafarers’ Wages Act 2023 may be cited as the Seafarers (Wages and Working Conditions) Act 2023.

(2) For the words ‘Seafarers’ Wages Act 2023’ wherever they occur in any enactment substitute ‘Seafarers (Wages and Working Conditions) Act 2023’.”—(Justin Madders.)

This schedule amends the Seafarers’ Wages Act 2023 to give the Secretary of State power to make regulations specifying conditions relating to the wages and working conditions of seafarers working on ships providing services currently covered by that Act. Those conditions are enforceable in the same way as existing provisions of that Act.

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

Clause 113

Power to make consequential amendments

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

Royal Mail Takeover

Debate between Chris Law and Justin Madders

Monday 16th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Justin Madders]

I thank my hon. Friend for his questions and his service in the Royal Mail. Clearly, arrangements for those currently in the Royal Mail are a matter for the new owners once the deal goes through, and I am sure that that point will be discussed. He is right that the performance has not been good enough, and we are very pleased to have secured a number of commitments in the deal that were not previously in place.

[Chris Law (Dundee Central) (SNP)]

I welcome many parts of the statement, not least the part on quality assurance. I would like to know a little more about that because one issue in Dundee, which has the largest teaching hospital in Europe, is that appointments letters often arrive too late, which of course has an impact on the NHS.

I want to focus specifically on the question not yet answered, which is about jobs. In Scotland, 11,000 people are employed by the Royal Mail, and they will be listening today to find out what cast-iron assurances there will be for their jobs. Mr Křetínský recently completed a takeover of a French supermarket, promising in 2023, in the run-up to that deal, that there would be no job losses, but one year later there were plans to cut 3,000 jobs. Can the Minister be very specific today and tell us what cast-iron guarantees he has for the 11,000 people employed in Scotland and those who are employed elsewhere across the UK?

[Justin Madders]

I have no doubt that the Communication Workers Union and the Unite Communication Managers Association would not have spoken positively about the deals that they had struck had they not received sufficient guarantees about the workforce. As I said, the general secretary of the Communication Workers Union has been on the air today, speaking very positively about the commitments that he has received about not just job security but governance arrangements, and about workers having a “meaningful stake” in the success of the business moving forward. This is a really positive deal, and if the CWU is speaking positively about it, I think the hon. Member should be reassured.

Employment Rights Bill (Eleventh sitting)

Debate between Chris Law and Justin Madders

Committee stage
Thursday 12th December 2024 Public Bill Committees

[Justin Madders]

I am grateful for the contributions in this debate, which deals with one of the central issues we have been grappling with. On this side of the Committee we certainly want to see fire and rehire consigned to the history books. Equally, we do not, as my hon. Friend the Member for Worsley and Eccles said, want to see businesses feel they have no option but to make people redundant because they do not feel they can take any other course of action. It is about trying to ensure that that is still available without opening a loophole, as it has been described, for abusive fire and rehire tactics to continue. There is an awful lot in the Bill as it stands that will make it a very high threshold indeed for any employer to want to take that step. There will, of course, be further guidance in regulations, where we will home in on the kinds of concerns that have been raised.

[Chris Law]

I appreciate that there is a lot in the Bill, and I appreciate that some Government Members on the Committee think this is a nut to crack. I have asked questions—I hope to hear some of the answers to them—and I want to add another. I raised the issue of “likely”, which is the language used. Will the Minister remark on whether the Department intends to advise on how the word “likely” should be determined? Will he consider whether that will reflect what was set out in the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 and a subsequent tribunal judgment, which came to define “likely” as a need to show

“a significantly higher degree of likelihood than just more likely than not”?

[Justin Madders]

I am not familiar with the particular case law the hon. Gentleman refers to, but I will take that away.

It is fair to say that employment tribunals currently do not have the kind of inquiries into a business’s finances and general condition that we are trying to achieve with this legislation. At the moment, there is a fairly broadbrush approach, particularly in terms of redundancies, to inquiries about the business reasons. It is important to draw the hon. Member for Dundee Central’s attention to the words after “likely” in the Bill. It is about an

“employer’s ability to carry on the business as a going concern”.

That means the alternative is insolvency or redundancies, which is the eventuality that I am sure we all want to avoid. It will ultimately be a question of fact for an employment tribunal to determine whether it genuinely was the only option available to the employer, which is what the Bill will require the employer to demonstrate.

There are a legion of examples of trade unions working constructively with businesses to avoid those kinds of insolvency situations, as a result of which terms and conditions have changed. The hon. Member for Dundee Central quoted Andy Prendergast who, in respect of what happened in the 2008 financial crisis, said in an evidence session:

“It was heartbreaking, but we had to do it because it was the right thing to do.”––[Official Report, Employment Rights Public Bill Committee, 28 November 2024; c. 131, Q135.]

He was talking about changing terms and conditions in agreement with employers to avoid redundancies and potential insolvencies.

The hon. Gentleman’s amendment would take out all of subsection (5) of proposed new section 104I, which is the requirement for the employer to engage with trade unions and have the dialogue that we think is so important in industrial relations. It would say, “That does not matter any more.” The dialogue we are seeking to develop—the tripartite approach—and the move to make the arbitrary take-it-or-leave-it approach that some employers have adopted in fire and rehire a thing of the past, would not matter.

The hon. Gentleman has asked some important questions about what we would expect of employers; I think subsection (5) answers many of them. Further regulations and codes of practice will also deal with them, because we want to make sure we have a situation in which the bar for passing this test is extremely high, but in addition to that—in addition to there being no alternative but insolvency—the employer has to then demonstrate that they have carried out a full consultation with the trade union. That will involve a full explanation of the financial situation. As we develop the regulations and codes of practice, we will flesh that out in some more detail.

[Chris Law]

I am listening carefully to the words the Minister is using. When does the employer carry out that process? Ultimately, they have two options. They can carry it out well in advance to ensure that employees are kept up to speed early on. Some employees may wish to leave under those circumstances and find employment elsewhere. But often, in past cases of fire and rehire, employees have heard at a very late stage or not at all. There is currently no provision in the Bill to say what the timetable should be. I would like to get an indication of the Minister’s thoughts about potential future amendments relating to that subject.

[Justin Madders]

I hear what the hon. Gentleman is saying, but subsection (5) does set out the requirements on an employer to consult. It would be normal for further detail about consultation to be considered to be in good time when proposals are at a formative stage, as has traditionally always been the case. I see no reason why it would not also take the same form in that instance.

What we are really talking about is a situation in which there is a sudden change in a company’s financial circumstances and it has to act quickly. In that situation, we do not want to force it to go insolvent or make people redundant, if there is an opportunity to save jobs. That is why subsection (5) is so important: because it will encourage and compel the dialogue that we are seeking to achieve. I accept that there is more to be done in terms of honing some of the detail, but I urge the hon. Gentleman to withdraw his amendment because it would, I am afraid, have unintended consequences.

[Chris Law]

I thank the Minister for his comments. It is helpful to know that there will be further consultation and, potentially, amendments—which may even come from his own side—to tighten up this bit of the legislation. It is critical to the wider Bill and the SNP understands its importance; we just want to see it made tighter—not to put employers in impossible situations in which they cannot negotiate, but so that it is not exploited as a loophole. As it currently stands, employers are already discussing that.

I appreciate the Minister’s response. In that context, so long as it is something that can be further considered and, particularly, brought forward on Report, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Ordered, That further consideration be now adjourned. —(Anna McMorrin.)

Employment Rights Bill (Eighth sitting)

Debate between Chris Law and Justin Madders

Committee stage
Thursday 5th December 2024 Public Bill Committees

[Justin Madders]

We have had a good debate. Most Members have spoken positively about the need for this change. Obviously, this was a measure brought in temporarily by the previous Government, during covid. They recognised the particular issue at the time.

Before I turn to the shadow Minister’s comments, I wish him the best of luck in the Mid-Buckinghamshire pantomime. I hope he does not become the George Lazenby of the Conservative party as a result. He raised two perfectly reasonable questions. The first was on Northern Ireland. I can assure him that it was not an oversight. It has been introduced as an amendment because, as this is a transferred power to Northern Ireland, we need their consent before it can be included. I think he will understand that putting it in without getting that agreement might have been counterproductive.

On the second point that the shadow Minister made, about abuse of the provision, of course employers already have the power to deal with employees whom they feel are falsely taking time off sick. Whether that is day four or day one, those powers are already there.

My hon. Friend the Member for Scarborough and Whitby made a very powerful speech to highlight the impact on particular groups. The evidence we heard from the Women’s Budget Group last week was particularly important in that respect. Other Members who spoke, my hon. Friends the Members for Birmingham Northfield and for Stratford and Bow, raised a whole plethora of examples with pieces of evidence in support of the policy. I think it is one that is generally supported.

To deal with the point made by the hon. Member for Dundee Central about the level of statutory sick pay, he may not have seen my opining on SSP at the evidence session last week, or the famous comments from the former Health Secretary about it not being enough to live on. I recognise that. Unfortunately, however, I have to give him the stock answer, which is that the actual level is set by the Department for Work and Pensions. He made a fair point about people on long-term sick, because there is a huge interplay between people on long-term sick and the benefits system, but it is in the Department’s gift to set the rate and to look at how it interplays with accessibility to other benefits, which of course depends on people’s individual circumstances.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 8 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 9

Statutory sick pay: lower earnings limit etc

[Chris Law]

I beg to move amendment 158, in clause 9, page 26, line 17, leave out “the prescribed percentage of”.

--- Later in debate ---

[Justin Madders]

I am grateful to the hon. Member for that helpful run-through of some of the issues that we are actively considering. He will be aware that a consultation on the issue closed only yesterday, so I would not want to pre-empt the outcome by accepting the amendment today. We understand the various arguments he has advanced that the level should be higher. He will not be surprised to hear that contrary arguments are put forward by some groups around having an incentive to take sick days when they are not needed.

Some of the modelling figures that the hon. Gentleman has come up with do not quite fit with the ones we have on where people would lose out at certain rates, but that will be considered in the round when we formally respond to the consultation. We hope to do so early in the new year, because we wish to put this into the Bill before it finishes its progress. It is something we are actively considering at the moment. I should be grateful if he would withdraw the amendment, so that we can take full account of the consultation that we have just completed.

[Chris Law]

I have listened with great interest to the Minister. I thank him for his comments and for the consultation that concluded yesterday. It would be helpful to hear today what the conclusion of the consultation is. I have made it crystal clear that none of us present want to see those at the lowest end of earnings worse off than they currently are. The Bill has been brought forward in good faith and good will, I am sure, by the new incoming Government to improve the lives of everyone, most of all those at the most vulnerable end. I have spoken to employers and employees quite widely about this, and the feeling I hear constantly is that this is a no-brainer. Delaying would be very difficult.

[Justin Madders]

I understand the point the hon. Member is making, but he will understand that when a Government Department—in this case the Department for Work and Pensions—undertakes a formal consultation, it is obliged to consider all responses before coming to a conclusion. That is why it is premature to agree to his amendment.

[Chris Law]

I thank the Minister for his intervention, but this is not a DWP issue. We are not talking about the level of SSP. We are talking about a sentence in the Bill that puts in a threshold that will make people on the lowest incomes worse off. That is an issue for the Minister for Employment to address rather than DWP. The level of SSP more widely has been discussed, and that may be an issue for DWP to consider. I think there will be disagreement over what that level should be. I have already quoted the TUC’s £320 a week, and I have suggested the national living wage. I look forward to that consultation, but this amendment seeks to strike a sentence out, nothing more.

[Justin Madders]

The very issue that the hon. Member is putting forward in his amendment is the issue that the Department for Work and Pensions is consulting on at the moment, which is why it would be premature to make a decision at this stage.

[Chris Law]

I need to ask for your advice, Sir Christopher, because at this point I would press the amendment to a vote but I want to be charitable and open to understanding what we are expecting from this consultation and when we would be able to bring this issue back—perhaps even during this Committee.

Employment Rights Bill (Fifth sitting)

Debate between Chris Law and Justin Madders

Committee stage
Tuesday 3rd December 2024 Public Bill Committees

[Justin Madders]

On a very fundamental level, if an employee has less money coming than in the previous week, they face a challenge in paying their bills, whether that is their mortgage, their rent or whatever costs they face. That is a very clear challenge to individuals on zero-hours contracts. A great number of studies show that people in insecure work have lower levels of job satisfaction and poorer physical and mental health, and there are also issues linked to lower levels of work productivity. As my hon. Friend mentioned, there is evidence that proper workforce planning is good for businesses, as well as individual workers. I am afraid that any exceptions creating a two-tier labour market would just exacerbate some of the challenges we see in that area. That would create a downward pressure, distort competitiveness at the expense of larger businesses and, as we have heard, create a disincentive for smaller businesses to grow.

[Chris Law (Dundee Central) (SNP)]

I have heard the Minister reference two-tier rights in employment law several times. I want to raise a fundamental issue in this Bill: zero-hours contracts and the different legal categories of a worker. It is a general principle that labour law should be universal in its application, and our labour rights should apply to everyone who works for others. I just wanted some clarification, as without clarification on the legal status of all those who work, the rights in the Bill are allocated piecemeal.

I will give some examples: some rights are given to employees with contracts of employment; some rights are given to limb (b) workers, such as Deliveroo riders in Independent Workers Union of Great Britain v. Central Arbitration Committee and Deliveroo last year, or gig workers who are denied the status of employees; and some rights are given to other new ad hoc definitions of workers, such as workers on non-contractual zero-hours arrangements. The situation of the false self-employed, including those employed by umbrella companies or personal service companies, as well as anomalous workers such as foster carers, is not otherwise dealt with, and their rights are left opaque. Fundamentally, I am asking whether a new clause is required to ensure that all rights contained within the Bill apply to workers defined as

“any individual who is engaged by another to provide labour and is not, in the provision of that labour, genuinely operating a business on his or her own account”.

[Justin Madders]

I understand the point that the hon. Member is making. I think it would not need a new clause but a new Bill, because there is a whole range of very complicated issues about worker status. It is something that we are committed to looking at in our “Next Steps” document, and there is a whole range of issues in that sector. The hon. Member referred to foster carers—I should clarify for the record that I am a foster carer. Personally, I would not consider that to be employment, but I know there are others who believe that it is. He also mentioned various arrangements within the gig economy, and the shadow Minister mentioned IR35. We can very quickly get into a very detailed argument about who would be classed as a worker and who would not, and that needs a much more considered and lengthy examination. That is why, as much as we would have liked to, we were not able to get it in the Bill in the time allowed, but I absolutely understand the point the hon. Member is making.

On the amendments before us, the disincentive for an employer to grow would, unfortunately, be an unintended consequence of their provisions. There could even be a scenario where there would be an argument in an employment tribunal about how big an employer actually was. My hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham Northfield talked about some of the complicated structures that we see, and we know that some employers deliberately structure themselves to avoid particular laws. That would go against the policy objectives, which are to create a level playing field across the board, avoid undercutting and ensure that best practice is spread throughout.

We must not create a two-tier system. That is not consistent with what we are trying to achieve. It would harm not just workers, but small businesses, and, as the hon. Member for Chippenham said, would create an incentive for workers at smaller employers to leave. If someone does not get any protection for two years working for one employer, they will go and work for someone who will give them that protection. That applies to lots of the other rights as well.

On the unfair dismissal amendment, there was a brief period in the 1980s where there was a slightly different employer size qualification for unfair dismissal. I think it was 21—some way below the number that the shadow Minister is proposing—but even the Thatcher Government decided that was not a tenable situation and removed that in the end. I gently point out to the shadow Minister that the amendment as drafted would not have the effect that he hopes. I hope he will not push it to a vote.

On the issues about the impact on small employers, that is why we have legislated to include a statutory probationary period to ensure that there is not an undue burden on businesses.

--- Later in debate ---

[Justin Madders]

The shadow Minister tempts me to pre-empt what we will put in the consultation. I have had a number of conversations with my hon. Friend the Member for Worsley and Eccles over many years, because he has great experience of the retail sector, where there is a great deal of insecurity of work. People who work in that sector can be on guaranteed hours of 16 hours a week but still face insecurity. Equally, a lot of the people that we are trying to help here have no guaranteed hours at all. There is an argument that anyone below full-time hours—again, there is a debate about what that means—could be within scope.

That is why we are holding a consultation, to enable us to understand exactly who will be affected—whether we are trying to catch everyone or target the people who suffer the greatest insecurity of work. That is the purpose of the consultation. I know the shadow Minister will probably want to get some figures out of me today, but I am afraid I will not be able to oblige.

[Chris Law]

I am sorry to stop the Minister in his tracks, but it is quite an important point. There is in the Bill what I would consider to be a loophole, which enables employers to offer a guaranteed-hours contract where there is work of a short-term nature. There are some issues with that. I would like to know the justifications for it, and whether it is going to consultation. Does it mean that people engaged on such terms will be engaged on a zero-hours basis, or will they be employed on a guaranteed-hours basis? It is not clear in the Bill. If the former, why is it not possible for such workers to have a guaranteed-hours contract if they otherwise meet the proposed statutory criteria? What safeguards will there be to ensure that the power is not abused, in order to avoid a guaranteed-hours contract? I am sure that, in the spirit of the Bill, we want to ensure that that is tightened. There is nothing in the Bill for that, either.

What is the difference between a short-term contract and a fixed-term contract? Will there be a legal status for someone engaged on a short-term contract? Are they an employee, a limb (b) worker, or neither? Lastly, will non-renewal of a short-term contract be a dismissal for the purposes of unfair dismissal in the case of workers who are employees? That is a lot of questions, but I want to know whether there will be further consultation that may result in amendments to the Bill.

Employment Rights Bill (Sixth sitting)

Debate between Chris Law and Justin Madders

Committee stage
Tuesday 3rd December 2024 Public Bill Committees

[Chris Law (Dundee Central) (SNP)]

On new section 27BE, there is a lack of formality relating to the worker’s right to refuse an offer of a regular-hours contract. Indeed, the risk is that workers could be coerced into rejecting an offer if it is clear that the employer would prefer the existing arrangements to continue. There are similar arrangements in respect of the working time regulations on workers’ right to opt out of the 48-hour working week; by contrast with the Bill’s provisions on zero-hours contracts, the working time regulations do not apply to all workers, and those who opt-out may revoke their decision to do so, although there are arguably no adequate safeguards there either.

The Secretary of State will have the power to make regulations about the form and manner of the notice under proposed new section 27BE, and reference is made to a response time that is undefined, but the question is whether it would be appropriate for Parliament to give the Minister stronger guidance by requiring that the response period should be at least one week; that the worker has a right to seek advice from an independent trade union before making a decision; that the worker has a right to be accompanied by a trade union official under section 10 of the Employment Relations Act 1999 in any meeting to discuss an offer; and that the worker may revoke a rejection of an offer at any time on giving one week’s notice to the employer. Does the Minister agree that those safeguards need to be incorporated into the Bill so that an employee is not coerced by their employer into rejecting a contract that is not in their best interest?

[Justin Madders]

A lot of the questions the hon. Member asked will be dealt with by the regulations and by the anti-detriment provisions of the Bill. If he would like to see specific provisions in the Bill, he should have tabled amendments, but I believe we will address a lot of the detail he raised in due course. We are clear that this has to be a freely agreed contract between both parties. The employer should make the offer and the employee should be able to agree, of their own free will, on whether they wish to accept it. We will look closely at the coercion issue, because that has been raised with us.

Government amendment 13 introduces new section 27BEA of the 1996 Act. It will introduce a duty on employers to take reasonable steps to make a potentially qualifying worker aware of their right to guaranteed hours should they meet the required conditions—that is, to draw workers’ attention to the new right and to the fact that they may be eligible for it.

New section 27BF provides for workers to bring an employment tribunal claim to enforce their right to guaranteed hours. A worker may make a complaint if no guaranteed hours offer is made to a qualifying worker; if an offer is made but does not comply with the requirements relating to a guaranteed hours offer, such as offering work for a number of hours that reflects the hours worked during the reference period, or the offer does not comply with the regulations relating to such requirements; if the offer includes a prohibited variation to a worker’s terms and conditions; and if the offer does not comply with the requirements on the use of limited-term contracts, the prohibition on varying other terms, or the applicable requirements where the employer offers less favourable terms.

To ensure that all rights are supported by appropriate protections, the Government amendments have added further grounds. Thus, a worker may make a complaint to an employment tribunal if the employer fails to provide a notice stating that they are exempt from the duty to make a guaranteed hours offer and which exemption applies, or fails to provide a notice stating that a guaranteed hours offer is treated as having been withdrawn further to an exemption applying or to a relevant termination; if the employer gives a notice to the worker stating that they are exempt from the duty to offer guaranteed hours when they should not have done so; if the employer gives the worker a notice relating to an exemption that does not refer to any exemption as set out in the regulations, or that relates to the wrong exemption; and if the employer fails to comply with the duties to provide workers with information about the right to guaranteed hours.

New section 27BG outlines the time limit during which a worker may take their complaint to tribunal. Government amendments have been tabled to allow workers to take cases within six months, as opposed to three months, which is to align the Bill’s provisions with the changes we have talked about already. We have also tabled amendments that are consequential on the new rights included in the Bill, and also on the new grounds to make a complaint to the employment tribunal. Those relate to the additional requirements to serve a notice under new section 27BD, and to the claims related to the information rights.

Finally, new section 27BH provides for the remedies to a well-founded complaint. It provides that tribunals must make a declaration if there has been a breach and may award compensation to be paid from the employer to the worker. In common with other existing employment rights, the compensation must not exceed a permitted maximum, which will be set out in regulations as a multiple of a number of weeks’ pay. I commend clause 1 to the Committee.